What are the causes of lack of fruit?

Porpoise · Sep 12, 2018

What could cause a lack of fruit and inability to overcome sin in a believer who has taken all the required steps of becoming Christian, genuinely believes, embraces the truth of the bible, attends church, prays daily, is repentant, and tries to obey and put God before anything else? If such a person has not been born again, what could have caused them to not be born again?

Halbhh · Sep 12, 2018

Let's hear Christ's answer to this question (and with deep and total listening...) --

1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

13Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command. 15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17This is my command: Love each other.

A person can fail to bear fruit by failing to abide in Christ, not dwelling in His words. We are to remain in Him by looking to Him, taking His words into our minds/hearts, listening/hearing His words, keeping them, putting what He says into practice.

RaymondG · Sep 12, 2018

A tree that bares no fruit is barren and need to be cut down. Plant a new seed, and wait for God to give the increase. If you continue to till the soil, add fertilizer, give it some shade or extra water....the seed will die. All you need to do is watch as well as pray....

Halbhh · Sep 12, 2018

As we see above, Christ tells us the way to remain in Him is to keep His commands -- to do as He says to do. If we obey/do His commands, we bear fruit.

What commands? The ones He says to you and me in His words to us, as recorded in the 4 gospels. A foremost command: Love one another.

Porpoise · Sep 12, 2018

Halbhh said:
As we see above, Christ tells us the way to remain in Him is to keep His commands -- to do as He says to do. If we obey/do His commands, we bear fruit.

What commands? The ones He says to you and me in His words to us, as recorded in the 4 gospels. A foremost command: Love one another.

Isn't that a catch-22? Love is a fruit of the spirit. We can't love without fruit. But we also can't get fruit without love? If someone has neither love nor fruit, it's impossible for them to acquire either of those? Do you get what I mean?

Halbhh · Sep 12, 2018

Porpoise said:
Isn't that a catch-22? Love is a fruit of the spirit. We can't love without fruit. But we also can't get fruit without love? If someone has neither love nor fruit, it's impossible for them to acquire either of those? Do you get what I mean?

Exactly right -- it's not our own willpower accomplishment at all!!

https://biblehub.com/niv/john/15.htm

verses 1 through 17 (sooner or later we should read with true and utter listening, as if you life depended on it -- that kind of total listening)

How would you dwell in His words, have His words "remain in you"? By totally listening fully as you read, taking your time, doing the most important thing you can do, to hear Him. "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me."

It's one way of seeking --

7“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

9“Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Halbhh · Sep 12, 2018

And along with true listening and real seeking, prayer (which is a part of seeking often).

Porpoise · Sep 12, 2018

Halbhh said:
Exactly right -- it's not our own willpower accomplishment at all!!

https://biblehub.com/niv/john/15.htm

verses 1 through 17 (sooner or later we should read with true and utter listening, as if you life depended on it -- that kind of total listening)

I don't understand. Isn't it a problem that we can't abide or bear fruit? In my case, I have repeatedly asked God for help changing. So it's not like I'm trying to do it on my own.

Halbhh · Sep 12, 2018

Porpoise said:
I don't understand. Isn't it a problem that we can't abide or bear fruit? In my case, I have repeatedly asked God for help changing. So it's not like I'm trying to do it on my own.

Sorry I usually have more thoughts and then add them in a minute to 3. Please see the additional pieces I added above, now complete, for this question. Consider how...total (or even desperate often) the verb "seek", seeking, is. A metaphor -- it's like one is searching with all one has, every bit of yourself, for a hidden treasure. But God helps us! When we seek, He responds!

This verse 13 helps a lot I think to illustrate (and I'll put it with surrounding verses):

11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call on me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back from captivity.

Consider, what is "all of your heart" -- we know what this is, it's every last bit of our total all-in. It's like...sky diving maybe -- to take the jump out of the airplane. It's all-in. No partial, not tentative, but total. And with faith. When we seek Him with all of our hearts, He responds.

Roseonathorn · Sep 12, 2018

Porpoise said:
What could cause a lack of fruit and inability to overcome sin in a believer who has taken all the required steps of becoming Christian, genuinely believes, embraces the truth of the bible, attends church, prays daily, is repentant, and tries to obey and put God before anything else? If such a person has not been born again, what could have caused them to not be born again?

BNR32FAN · Sep 12, 2018

Porpoise said:
What could cause a lack of fruit and inability to overcome sin in a believer who has taken all the required steps of becoming Christian, genuinely believes, embraces the truth of the bible, attends church, prays daily, is repentant, and tries to obey and put God before anything else? If such a person has not been born again, what could have caused them to not be born again?

Sometimes it just takes time to fully come to repentance. I struggled for almost a year just to stop myself from cursing. I had done it all my life and it had become something that was just automatic to me. As far as producing fruit that can just be a voluntary action. I would say failing to produce fruit or good works is a choice. I can’t see someone accidentally not doing any good works at all. I can however see someone missing an opportunity to do good works. I’ve done that before.

Halbhh · Sep 12, 2018

Porpoise said:
Isn't that a catch-22? Love is a fruit of the spirit. We can't love without fruit. But we also can't get fruit without love? If someone has neither love nor fruit, it's impossible for them to acquire either of those? Do you get what I mean?

One thing to add to the above is that while I could love by gratitude or appreciation or other such, loving and forgiving those who are difficult came so much easier after I finally put into practice what Christ said is the greatest commandment, doing it the way He said in Mark chapter 12, verses 29-30, because by doing this as best I could (with all of my limited ability; but going all-in, with all of whatever little I had, like the widow's 2 pennies -- a 100%), then God intervened and flooded me with love.

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What are the causes of lack of fruit?

Porpoise

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Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me

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RaymondG

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Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me

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Porpoise

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Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me

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Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me

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Porpoise

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Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me

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Roseonathorn

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BNR32FAN

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Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me

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