Do you believe that earth is about 6000 years old, based upon Genesis & Psalms 90:4 & 2 Peter 3:8?

  • Yes!, even the 'Ante-Nicene' believed this from the scripture!

    Votes: 14 42.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 18 54.5%
  • I just don't know yet, but I will think about these things.

    Votes: 1 3.0%
  • I just don't care.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    33

EvangAlived

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Genesis is not to be taken literally.
Mere assertion, filled with doubts (Romans 14:23, "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."), and no substantiated evidence provided, and thus may be safely ignored.

Jesus took Genesis as Literal:

Mat. 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Mar. 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Mar. 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;


Mar. 10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.


Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen. 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Gen. 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

I could cite numerous more.

There is more to it than just black and white.
As stated in the OP.

1 Cor. 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Natural first. Afterward spiritual.

"lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8), as per:

Gen. 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Natural. Then 4,000 years later, the Spiritual:

Jhn. 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jhn. 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Science has been given to us by God.
Science means knowledge. True science is given by God's word:

Psa. 94:10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know?

Psa. 119:66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.

Pro. 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Science can date the earth etc.
True science (knowledge) comes from God's word, and simply add up the dates given therein, since God is the "faithful and true witness" (Rev. 3:14), and the "true and faithful witness" (Jer. 42:5) and God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).

Go look at the videos and read the book provided. Here are a few more for you:






young earth. All nonsense with no credible proof.
Mere assertion. I provided plenty, beginning with God's true word, and plenty of even the Ante-Nicene and others, including Jews and Christians beyond that.

2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

All nonsense with no credible proof.
1 Tim. 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

satan gives 'knowledge' too. A false science. That which is 'sci-fi', just like this:

Here is what Charles Lyell wrote:

"... I conceived the idea five or six years ago, that if ever the Mosaic geology could be set down without giving offense, it would be in an historical sketch..." [Life, Letters And Journals Of Sir Charles Lyell, Bart. Page 217] - Link, page 217

True Science? No, hatred for Scripture. A dangerous Bias, which now continues in the compromise of Christians, which the origins or dating rock layers had anything to do with science rather than purely made up imagination from a antibiblical philosophy. He, among others, set out to deliberately destroy 'Moses' and the 'geology' set forth by God.
 
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EvangAlived

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I have a question. How did Satan know about Adam and Eve and the Garden of Paradise?
(short answer) He saw the earth created as all the other angelic beings and unfallen worlds did (see Job 38:7 for the unfallen, Lucifer by that time had already left his 'first estate' (Jude 1:6)).

There's only one conclusion I can make. He wasn't god of the world and prince of the power of the air yet.
It is true he (satan) was not yet the 'god' of this world at its creation, for Adam was (6th day), being the "son of God" (Luk. 3:38), for he had been given "dominion" (Gen. 1:26,28; Psa. 6:4-8; Mic. 4:8) by God in stewardship.
 
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Dave-W

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Yes - I lean toward an almost 6000 year old earth; but am not hard tied to it; as it does not affect either salvation or how we walk before God after being saved.

I lean toward it as being the most scripturally defensible option.

BTW - Sept 10 starts year 5779 according to the ancient rabbis.
 
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Lost4words

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Mere assertion, filled with doubts (Romans 14:23, "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."), and no substantiated evidence provide, and thus may be safely ignored.

Jesus took Genesis as Literal:

Mat. 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

Mar. 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Mar. 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;


Mar. 10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.


Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen. 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Gen. 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

I could cite numerous more.

As stated in the OP.

1 Cor. 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Natural first. Afterward spiritual.

"lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 13:8), as per:

Gen. 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Natural. Then 4,000 years later, the Spiritual:

Jhn. 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jhn. 1:36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

Science means knowledge. True science is given by God's word:

Psa. 94:10 He that chastiseth the heathen, shall not he correct? he that teacheth man knowledge, shall not he know?

Psa. 119:66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.

Pro. 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

True science (knowledge) comes from God's word, and simply add up the dates given therein, since God is the "faithful and true witness" (Rev. 3:14), and the "true and faithful witness" (Jer. 42:5) and God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).

Go look at the videos and read the book provided. Here are a few more for you:






Mere assertion. I provided plenty, beginning with God's true word, and plenty of even the Ante-Nicene and others, including Jews and Christians beyond that.

2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

1 Tim. 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

satan gives 'knowledge' too. A false science. That which is 'sci-fi', just like this:

Here is what Charles Lyell wrote:

"... I conceived the idea five or six years ago, that if ever the Mosaic geology could be set down without giving offense, it would be in an historical sketch..." [Life, Letters And Journals Of Sir Charles Lyell, Bart. Page 217] - Link, page 217

True Science? No, hatred for Scripture. A dangerous Bias, which now continues in the compromise of Christians, which the origins or dating rock layers had anything to do with science rather than purely made up imagination from a antibiblical philosophy. He, among others, set out to deliberately destroy 'Moses' and the 'geology' set forth by God.

Jesus did quote from Genesis. Jesus understood Genesis. Many a modern man doesn't. They interpret it to suit their very own individual beliefs. Just like the flat earth believers. Tons of proof for a spherical earth yet they dismiss it.

Age of the earth. Again, science has proved how old it is. Science is extremely good at dating things. Plus, we know how long things take to grow, to mature etc. How long it takes for coal to form for example.

You will always get the conspiracy gang coming up with odd statements and weird videos.

The Bible is very much miss understood by thousands and thousands of people.

The earth is very very old. That is a fact. A fact of life. A fact of science. God is very much alive. He has given us knowledge through science. The Catholic Church believes in science.

Flat earth, young earth. All pure fantasy....
 
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DamianWarS

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The 7 days of Genesis & 7,000 years old earth view (Ps. 90:4, II Pet. 3:8)), have you heard this, even in the Ante-Nicene 'fathers'?

For instance (summary):

In Matthew 13, Jesus gives several related parables, about the work of a laborer, sowing in the field and then reaping. According to Holy scripture, the workweek is six days long, with one of rest at the end (Exodus 20:8-11; &c). Therein, the ‘field’ is identified with the “world”, and the sowing of the gospel seed for those six days. The harvest is the end, but notice in St. Matthew 13:35, that Jesus speaks about the parable representing something keep secret from the beginning of the world. Isn’t Jesus connecting the sowing of the seed, from Genesis 3:15, unto the end of the world, the 6 cosmic days with the Lord, Psalms 90:4; II Peter 3:8?

For instance,

Day 1 - Light, (Adam sinned, world in darkness, but Jesus gave the Gospel light) connect to Genesis 3:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4-6; 1,000 years (of Adam, dies short of ‘the day’ (930 years old; Genesis 2:17, 5:5))

Day 2 - Heavenly waters separated from earthly waters, as Noah and Abraham continue with the gospel (Galatians 3:6-8), as Abraham was to be made a distinct heavenly minded peoples (Genesis 15:18, 18:18, waters, Revelation 17:5), 2nd 1,000 years

Day 3 - Grass, Herbs, Trees (with seed in itself), Moses and Israel take up the Gospel, the Tree of a nation is rooted (Hebrews 4:2,6; Acts 7:38], and among the grass (Psalms 103:15; Isaiah 51:12; 1 Peter 1:24), that Nation of the line of Abraham, was brought forth from out of Egypt (a symbol of the earth [worldliness]), and Israel, was to be a fruit bearing Tree (Luke 13:6-7; John 1:48-50; Romans 11:17,24), whose seed (the Gospel and Christ; Genesis 3:15) was in itself. 3rd 1,000 years.

Day 4 - Sun, Moon, Stars - The Sun of Righteousness, Jesus Christ appears, shining among the apostles, disciples, and Church reflecting His glory (Malachi 4:2; John 1:7-9, 8:12; Revelation 1:16), 4th 1,000 years

Day 5 - Beasts from the Waters, life abundantly appears, Leviathan of the seas - The gospel goes forward into all the nations ( Matthew 28:19; Mark 13:10, 16:15; Acts 1:8; Colossians 1:23,27), the Beast of the sea (Revelation 13:1-2) arises. 5th 1,000 years.

Day 6 - Beast of the Earth, perfect man, and the marriage take place - The gospel completes its mission (Revelation 10:7) in the 6th day, as God and Jesus were “finished” in the 6th day, the beast of the earth (Revelation 13:11~) arises, 6th 1,000 years unto today. Man restored to perfection through the Gospel (Revelation 14:6-12). Jesus is marrying in Heaven right now to His kingdom (Daniel 7:31-14; Isaiah 62:4-5)

Day 7 - God rested from all His work - the Final 1,000, God’s people in atonement with God, at rest from this earth, and the land rests.

In Isaiah, read, Isaiah 46:9-10. God told us the end from the beginning, just as He said in Matthew 13:35.

Have you seen this in the historical teachings of the Ante-Nicene?

Apostolic Constitutions (pages 317-318 (PDF 337-338)) - http://www.documentacatholicaomnia....ers_Of_The_Third_And_Fourth_Centuries,_EN.pdf

Hippolytus (p 179) - https://books.google.com/books?id=6-1YAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Methodius (p 93, 100, 182) - https://books.google.com/books?id=tslFAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Epistle of Barnabas (p 146) - https://books.google.com/books?id=fyUMAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Irenaeus (p 557-558) - https://books.google.com/books?id=fyUMAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Cyprian (p 52,69) - https://books.google.com/books?id=EcA7AAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Commodianus (p 451,474) - https://books.google.com/books?id=xN8IAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Victorinus (p 342-343) - https://books.google.com/books?id=h3PYAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Hilary of Poitiers (p 186) - https://books.google.com/books?id=2398ZZ9dIQoC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Lactantius (p 460-461) - https://books.google.com/books?id=GIJPAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Gaudentius of Brescia (p 202-203) - https://books.google.com/books?id=-pYCAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false and in Latin ( pages 96,97, paragraphs 14-16, lines 137-140, 148-154) - https://books.google.com/books?id=13AOAQAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Jerome (p 153) - https://books.google.com/books?id=89frds8lRqkC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false and (p 202) - https://books.google.com/books?id=-pYCAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false and in Latin (Patrologia Latina 22; column 1172 (PDF 648)) - https://archive.org/stream/patrologiaecurs165unkngoog#page/n648/mode/1up/

Tyconius (p 56; lines 13-14 & p 61; lines 30-33) - https://archive.org/stream/bookofrulesoftyc00ticouoft#page/n183/mode/1up and https://archive.org/stream/bookofrulesoftyc00ticouoft#page/n188/mode/1up

Sulpitius Severus (p 71) - https://books.google.com/books?id=LjafWkK9O3QC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Sextus Julius Africanus (p 130-131, 136-138) - https://books.google.co.zw/books?id=F-5YAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Bardesanes (Columnn 614 (lefthand side)) - https://books.google.com/books?id=49hjztGu5UwC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Babylonian Talmud ('6000')- http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/607585/jewish/Significance-of-the-year-6000.htm

Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 97A - https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.97a

Midrash (Pirke De-Rabbi Eliezer) - https://www.sefaria.org/sheets/3930

Augustine (p 426) - https://books.google.com/books?id=tzwwAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false and in Latin ( PDF, 449.450) - https://archive.org/stream/OEXV6RES/OEXV6#page/n449/mode/1up
https://archive.org/stream/OEXV6RES/OEXV6#page/n450/mode/1up and (p 232) - https://books.google.com/books?id=tzwwAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false and in Latin (PDF 247) - https://archive.org/stream/OEXV6RES/OEXV6#page/n247/mode/1up and (p 233) - https://books.google.com/books?id=tzwwAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false and in Latin (PDF 248) - https://archive.org/stream/OEXV6RES/OEXV6#page/n248/mode/1up/

Thomas Aquinas (Question 74, Article 3, Reply to Objection 6 and 7 & Summa Thelogica, Suppliment, Question 74]) - www.newadvent.org/summa/1074.htm and (Question 122) - www.newadvent.org/summa/3122.htm
Your use of metaphor for the 7 days of creation only demands the metaphor not the literal. If the earth took billions of years the metaphor can still coexist.
 
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The Times

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We are in a gravitational time distortion vortex which determines relative time.

In Genesis relative time within that gravitational vortex was as if time stood still, hence Adam would not die.

After the flood the gravitation time vortex was further changed by God to limit man's life to 120 years.

The short answer is.....

Within the Genesis context of situation the gravitational time vortex had spacial time distortion that stretched out time as if it stood still. The day in that vortex resulted in a 24 hour day relative time.

Compared to today's spacial time distortion that 24 hour day is like billions of years to us.

This theory is scientifically proven as we observe distant stars and how light is effected by the gravitational time disturbances.

The Biblical account is a 24 hour day, but that 24 hour day relative to ours is infinitesnal which means that 1 second in their spacial time vortex is like thousands of days in ours.
 
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EvangAlived

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Yes - I lean toward an almost 6000 year old earth;
Don't lean (which is almost ready to fall), but instead stand firm upon thus saith the Lord.

...as it does not affect either salvation or how we walk before God after being saved. ...
Scripture disagrees with your private commentary.

Jhn. 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Jhn. 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Error never sanctifies.

Jhn. 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

There are those who willingly are grieving away the Holy Ghost these days. They were warned, as it was in the days of Noe.

1 Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
 
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EvangAlived

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Creation in the LXX dates to 5500 BC
Who cares, really, since the "oracles of God" (OT) were committed to the Jews (Romans 3:1-2), thus written in Hebrew, not the Greek:

The Septuagint [LXX] as we presently know it, appears first in the writings of Origen [Hexapla] at near the end of the 2nd century AD, and the mention by the so-called "Letter of Aristeas", based on an unfounded and mostly discredited "legend", is seriously problematic.

"... Most of these fables focus on an infamous “book” 14 called the Letter of Aristeas” 15 (hereafter called the Letter) and the alleged claims of the Letter’s documentation by authors who wrote before the first coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the first few centuries following His first sojourn on earth. 16 The only extant Letter is dated from the eleventh century. In addition, there is no pre-Christian Greek translation of the He-brew Old Testament text, which the Letter alleges, that has been found, in-cluding the texts among the Dead Sea Scrolls. ..." - http://www.theoldpathspublications.com/Downloads/Free/The Septuagint ebook.pdf

"... the story of Aristeas appears comparatively rational. Yet it has long been recognized that much of it is unhistorical, in particular the professed date and nationality of the writer. Its claims to authenticity were demolished by Dr. Hody two centuries ago (De bibliorum textibus originalibus, Oxon., 1705) ..." - http://www.bible-researcher.com/isbelxx01.html

De bibliorum textibus originalibus - https://archive.org/stream/bub_gb_Lq6h8A9RvfwC#page/n15/mode/2up

Other sources, identifying the same - http://www.scionofzion.com/septuagint.htm

"... Roman Catholics use the idea that Christ quoted the Septuagint to justly include the Apocrypha in their Bibles. ... Since no Hebrew Old Testament ever included the books of the Apocrypha, the Septuagint is the only source the Catholics have for justifying their canon. Many Reformers and Lutherans wrote at great length refuting the validity of the Septuagint. ..." - http://www.wcbible.org/documents/septuagint.pdf

"... [Page 46] Proponents of the invisible LXX will try to claim that Origen didn't translate the Hebrew into Greek, but only copied the LXX into the second column of his Hexapla. Can this argument be correct? No. If it were, then that would mean that those astute 72 Jewish scholars added the Apocryphal books to their work before they were ever written. (!) Or else, Origen took the liberty to add these spurious writings to God's Holy Word (Rev. 22:18). ...

... Is there ANY Greek manuscript of the Old Testament written BEFORE the time of Christ? Yes. There is one minute scrap dated at 150 BC, the Ryland's Papyrus, #458. It contains Deuteronomy chapters 23-28. No more. No less. If fact, it may be the existence of this fragment that led Eucebius and Philo to assume that the entire Pentatuech had been translated by some scribe in an effort to interest Gentiles in the history of the Jews. ... [page 46]

... [Page 47] If there was an Aristeas, he was faced with two insurmountable problems.

First, how did he ever locate the twelve tribes in order to pick his six representative scholars from each. Having been thoroughly scattered by their many defeats and captivities, the tribal lines of the 12 tribes had long since dissolved into virtual non-existence. It was impossible for anyone to distinctly identify the 12 individual tribes.

Secondly, if the 12 tribes had been identified, they would not have undertaken such a translation for two compelling reasons.

(1) Every Jew knew that the official caretaker of Scripture was the tribe of Levi as evidenced in Deuteronomy 17:18, 31:25,26 and Malachi 2:7. Thus, NO Jew of any of the eleven other tribes would dare to join such a forbidden enterprise. ..." - The Answer Book, By Sam Gipp, Page 46-47, selected portions, emphasis [bold] in original.





 
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Dave-W

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Jhn. 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Jhn. 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
And "TRUTH" is a Person - our Lord. The Living Word of God. That means that mere facts are NOT the truth.
 
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EvangAlived

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And "TRUTH" is a Person - our Lord. The Living Word of God. That means that mere facts are NOT the truth.
Now if only people will believe what Jesus (truth) said in His "word" (Jhn. 17:17), which He spake from His Father (Jhn. 12:49), by the Holy Ghost (Jhn. 3:34).

Yet people love to believe a lie, as it is written:

Rom. 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

2 Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Jhn. 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
 
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Dave-W

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Now if only people will believe what Jesus (truth) said in His "word"
Instead of assuming they understand what He actually said ...

The specific age of the earth is the very definition of a manufactured (man-made) doctrine.
 
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I believe in a young earth, but I am not tied to a specific age such as 6,000. I believe based on scripture there are variables that could put it somewhere between 6,000 - 12,000, maybe a little more give or take. However, YEC research that I've exposed myself to tend to indicate it is somewhere between 6,000-10,000 or so years old.

I do think the Ante-Nicene fathers pose a good argument against modern interpretations that try to read modern beliefs into Genesis or argue it is not to be taken literally. However, they should not be the final authority, more of a commentary or window into early church beliefs and culture instead. I would also add early Jewish commentaries and beliefs rather than modern Jewish commentaries and beliefs as well. Stuff like Second Temple Jewish literature, etc.

I do not see evidence that Genesis should be taken poetically, or only as a polemic (written to contend with ancient belief systems about creation) or that it is not to be taken literally in the first three chapters. While it was written as a polemic, it was also written to convey truth of the creation event. I also recognize it is not a line for line, step by step, detail by detail report of how God created everything, but what it does convey is obviously meant to be taken at face value while also incorporating other things such as the polemical theology, etc.

If one starts with a questionable view of Genesis then where does one end with a questionable view of the Bible as a whole? Where does one begin to take scripture at its word on things? Did Jesus rise from the dead? What do we need salvation from? When did the perfect creation become imperfect and corrupt? Why do things need fixing? Was there ever a fall? Etc.

A literal reading of Genesis does not have to be done while ignoring grammar, language, and culture. However, one has to take a position on what modern beliefs of science, more like naturalism, says about origins. If we call ourselves Christians and say that we favor science over everything then such a position puts us at odds with many supernatural events in Scripture. The Ressurection being one of the major and more fundamental tennants of the faith is one of them.

Lastly, I used to be an Old Earther. I used to argue that there was much in Genesis that one couldn't know such as how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden, gaps in the genealogies, although I still believe there are some just no where near enough to have an Earth and Universe that are billions or millions of years old. I also used to argue that the Hebrew word yom meant more than a literal day. All this was before truly listening to the YEC view, considering context of the word Yom, recognizing, as I said, that even if there are gaps, there still won't be that many to open the door to billions and millions of years, etc.
 
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EvangAlived

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Instead of assuming they understand what He actually said ...
Thanks for bumping this thread. More people need this information.

This is for you (you believe the truth and practice it?, recognize what is quoted and follow it):

Mar 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Luk 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
Luk 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
 
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edrogati

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I was taught to believe in a young creation from my earliest memories. At age 17, I was introduced to the ideas of Dr. Hugh Ross and began to consider the idea that the Universe, not just Earth, could be old.

I admit to still battle within myself on this issue. Most of my discussions on the topic have been fruitless. People rarely, if ever, change their viewpoints. Also, the idea of being argued logically or with theological citation into the kingdom of God is problematic to me.

The main challenge for me remains the apparent disparity between a surface reading of English translations of Scripture and the Universe in which we live. God could have and is powerful enough to create the Universe in relatively instantaneous periods of time, but that leaves the idea of an appearance that things took longer. The God of the Bible is not a god of misleading appearances. The God of the Bible performs miracles, not illusions.

The other idea that's a problem is that an old Universe somehow reduces God's abilities or makes God less powerful. Dr. Ross has determined, based on compiling the scientific research of others, in the light of his own education and scientific experience, as well as his faith and research of the Bible, that the Universe is too young to have come into existence by chance, that evolution cannot be the source of life and many other conclusions that are much closer to those that hold to a young Creation than those who hold to the secular scientific view.

Yet we seem to be more interested in arguing with fellow Christians and calling their salvation into question than what the Scripture suggests, "Come let us reason together".
 
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BroRoyVa79

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How can one interpret the story of creation in a literal way when the sun does not exist in the first day. How can there be a morning and a night without sun?

In answer to your question:

God created light on the first day. Also God is the one who defines "Day" and "Night" after he created light and separated light from darkness.

Genesis 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

I would counter with the following question: Why when creating things does God have to conform to modern man's perception of how things worked and belief that these are how things always worked? Could God have easily shined light on the Earth as it rotated in its early stages of creation? Also, if there was no life on the planet and this is God's testimony to the author of how he did things then it is God who is telling us what a day is from his perspective while he is creating. There does not need to be life on the Earth to see the evening and the morning nor does there need to be a sun in the sky for modern humans to understand God said the light is "day" and the darkness is "night." Hence, the separation of the two.
 
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How can one interpret the story of creation in a literal way when the sun does not exist in the first day. How can there be a morning and a night without sun?
Glad you asked, read:

Please, go read, 2 Corinthians 4:4-6; John 1:7-9; Revelation 21:23 &c.

If you read carefully and prayerfully, it doesn't say God "made" the light on Day one as things were on other days. It just says "Let there be light ..." Jesus, JEHOVAH Immanuel, can let His glory shine forth, even though God is often seen surrounded with dark waters.

Psa 18:10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
Psa 18:11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.

As the world turns, and the Light of the world, Jesus, shines, day and night, evening and morning, until He creates by command of the Father, the Sun, Moon and stars (local) on Day 4.
 
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