Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

BABerean2 · Aug 24, 2018

DavidPT said:
No historians can ever get any facts wrong then, correct?

How about the history found below, which does come from the inspired Word of God?

How are you going to get rid of it to make your doctrine work?

Christ was cut off "after" the 69th week based on Daniel chapter 9, which would be during the 70th week.

Because 4 Passovers can be found in the Gospels, Bible scholars believe His earthly ministry lasted for about 3 1/2 years long.
Therefore, He was cut off in the middle of the 7 year period, which began at His baptism.

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken to the Jewish people for about 7 years before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.

Based on Luke 21:24-28, and Romans 11:25, we are now in the times of the Gentiles.

.

jgr · Aug 24, 2018

Eternally Grateful said:
I do not listen to men, i made that mistake years ago,

If the crucifiction occured in 32AD, that means that the 70th week, in your view, started in 28ad sometime,

Does not matter who you use, the math does not add up, not to mention, you have 3.5 years after in which nothing happened.

Check post 723, it's all there.

There's nothing that doesn't add up.

How do you define "nothing"?

jgr · Aug 24, 2018

Eternally Grateful said:
454 + 36 = 500 years, - 6 years equals 494 years. which in any format, does not amount to 69 weeks of years.

Again, your math is off.

454 +36 = 490 years = 70 weeks of years

Your arithmetic is faulty.

jgr · Aug 24, 2018

Eternally Grateful said:
In this dudes history, that does not prove he was right.

You're more than welcome to prove that he was wrong.

jgr · Aug 24, 2018

Eternally Grateful said:
Ok, i am about done her

Jesus said they would find the destible thing, unclean thing, idol or abomination standing in the holy place.

There is only one holy place in jewish culture in which you can place an unclean thing and stop sacrifice and offering, and that is the inner sanctum, or place where only the high priest could go.

It is not jerusalem, for a man who claims to know history, your very ignorant when it comes biblically to what a holy place and an abomination which desecrated it is, even after you were given biblical examples, you ignore.

You're ignoring Luke 21:20.

jgr · Aug 24, 2018

DavidPT said:
I get your math, I just don't see why you are doing it like such. 454 + 36 does equal 490, but why are you determining it like that though? The math works out, apparently, but still puzzled as to why you're using that formula found in the first line above?

For EG's benefit. But even with that, he still tried to make 454 +36 = 500.

DavidPT · Aug 24, 2018

jgr said:
454 BC + 454 years + 36 years = 36 AD = end of 70th week

I have to admit, very interesting how this was arrived at. You start off with a certain number, you then use this exact same certain number again, add 36 to it, and you end up with 36 AD. I fully grasp how this adds up to this. I fully grasp why you chose 454 BC. What I don't grasp though, how did you, or in the event you found this formula elsewhere, even come up with to begin with? It seems somewhat ingenious actually. This formula involves two 454's and two 36s.

mkgal1 · Aug 24, 2018

Eternally Gratefull said:
.....not to mention, you have 3.5 years after in which nothing happened.

*Something* most definitely *did* happen those remaining 3 1/2 years - the gospel was preached to the Jews (which was the rest of the seven years that the covenant was confirmed). After that (at the end of the 70 weeks) .....the gospel was then preached to the Gentiles.

"For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name." Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people." And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples." And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him" (Romans 15:8-12)
********************************
ETA: Deuteronomy 8:18 ~ But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today

jgr · Aug 24, 2018

DavidPT said:
I have to admit, very interesting how this was arrived at. You start off with a certain number, you then use this exact same certain number again, add 36 to it, and you end up with 36 AD. I fully grasp how this adds up to this. I fully grasp why you chose 454 BC. What I don't grasp though, how did you, or in the event you found this formula elswhere, even come up with to begin with? It seems somewhat ingenious actually.

Thanks.

Martin Anstey calculated 454 BC using his exclusively-Scriptural chronology.

So I added 454 to account for those 454 years, and to take us to 0 BC/AD.

Then to account for the full 490 years, I added 36, which also takes us to 36 AD, i.e. the end of the 70th week.

Note that for arithmetic purposes, 454 BC = -454.

JLB777 · Aug 24, 2018

DaDad said:
I already told you that I shop at the GAP. It just doesn't belong in Scripture. But if you DID read the Scriptures as they intend, you won't find that seventy sevens = 490 years. THEY DON'T SAY THAT.

Sounds like you just want okay games and aren’t interested in the truth.

Please explaine for all of us how 483 days extends from the year 538 BC to the year 28 AD.

:wave:

JLB

DaDad · Aug 24, 2018

JLB777 said:
Please explain for all of us how 483 days extends from the year 538 BC to the year 28 AD.

Please explain why the angel specifies that the prophecies in the Book of Daniel are "shut up and sealed until the time of the end", and the commentators don't even wait until the ink is dry before they tell us the "interpretations".

500 BC, 200 BC, 0 AD, 33 AD, -- AREN'T THE TIME OF THE END. 1948 is approximate to the time of the end. Please interpret the prophecies in the correct era.

Thanks,
DaDad

BABerean2 · Aug 24, 2018

DaDad said:
Please explain why the angel specifies that the prophecies in the Book of Daniel are "shut up and sealed until the time of the end", and the commentators don't even wait until the ink is dry before they tell us the "interpretations".

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, (prophets like Daniel)
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (during the first century)

.

DaDad · Aug 24, 2018

BABerean2 said:
... (during the first century)

Perhaps you can explain your "theology" to the Nation of Israel. And possibly to the FIFTH "Divided Kingdom" which is comprised of the THREE Superpowers and the United Nations; and possibly to the Messiah who apparently came for a SECOND TIME some couple of thousand years ago.

It's like having a "Star Trek" episode with multiple parallel universes.

Thanks,
DaDad

jgr · Aug 24, 2018

DaDad said:
Perhaps you can explain your "theology" to the Nation of Israel. And possibly to the FIFTH "Divided Kingdom" which is comprised of the THREE Superpowers and the United Nations; and possibly to the Messiah who apparently came for a SECOND TIME some couple of thousand years ago.

It's like having a "Star Trek" episode with multiple parallel universes.

Thanks,
DaDad

The remnant understands the theology. No one else is interested.

You need to toss your RSV in the round file, and revive the KJV/NASB/YLT.

DaDad · Aug 24, 2018

jgr said:
... your RSV ...

ALL versions have flaws. The original text is the only reliable text. Unfortunately it didn't have capitalization or punctuation. So you might say that it has it own limitations (as does ANY language). So perhaps we should throw them all away, -- or so it would appear you are suggesting.

OR, we could resolve any textual issues, such as a PRECEDENT for the contrived "seven and sixty-two", which I'm CONFIDENT you have a response for. Oh, wait, I guess I've already asked, and you DON'T have an answer for. Come to think of it, you still think Daniel's prophecies are ancient, in opposition to the angel's instructions.

Hmmmmm,
DaDad

Erik Nelson · Aug 24, 2018

jgr said:
Thanks.

Martin Anstey calculated 454 BC using his exclusively-Scriptural chronology.

So I added 454 to account for those 454 years, and to take us to 0 BC/AD.

Then to account for the full 490 years, I added 36, which also takes us to 36 AD, i.e. the end of the 70th week.

Note that for arithmetic purposes, 454 BC = -454.

very interesting

no year zero, 454 BC + 454 years = 1 AD + 29 more years = 30 AD = Crucifixion at the end of the (7+62)'nd week

Somehow, Jesus said "this generation shall not pass away" until the 70th week was fulfilled = 66-73 AD = Jewish-Roman War, wherein the physical temple was raised in the middle of the week in 70 AD

The Crucifixion, leaving the Messiah with "nothing" (Dan 7) and "this generation shall not pass away" somehow indicate a "pause" in the "Daniel chronology clock" for about 5 weeks of years from ~31 to 66 AD...

this seems to link to St. Paul's statement about a "restrainer" (2 Thess 2:6-7)

The Daniel clock does (did) not resume until the "restrainer" is (was) removed...

almost all agree that the "restrainer" has something to with the Gospel of Christ as preached by the Church (especially in 1st century AD Jerusalem... when High Priest Ananias martyred St. James, brother of the Lord, too, and the Christians fled the city, almost immediately God's Wrath, manifested through the Roman armies, raised Jerusalem)

jgr · Aug 24, 2018

DaDad said:
ALL versions have flaws. The original text is the only reliable text. Unfortunately it didn't have capitalization or punctuation. So you might say that it has it own limitations (as does ANY language). So perhaps we should throw them all away, -- or so it would appear you are suggesting.

OR, we could resolve any textual issues, such as a PRECEDENT for the contrived "seven and sixty-two", which I'm CONFIDENT you have a response for. Oh, wait, I guess I've already asked, and you DON'T have an answer for. Come to think of it, you still think Daniel's prophecies are ancient, in opposition to the angel's instructions.

Hmmmmm,
DaDad

How does "revive the KJV/NASB/YLT" constitute throwing them all away?

The KJV/NASB/YLT have demonstrably better answers than the RSV. And there's the Hebrew if you think you know more than the KJV/NASB/YLT.

Daniel's prophecies are ancient. Their fulfillments came at the beginning of the last days about 2,000 years ago (Hebrews 1:1,2)

The only "angel's instructions" are in Daniel 9:23: "...therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision." Did the RSV throw something else in?

jgr · Aug 24, 2018

Erik Nelson said:
very interesting

no year zero, 454 BC + 454 years = 1 AD + 29 more years = 30 AD = Crucifixion at the end of the (7+62)'nd week

Somehow, Jesus said "this generation shall not pass away" until the 70th week was fulfilled = 66-73 AD = Jewish-Roman War, wherein the physical temple was raised in the middle of the week in 70 AD

The Crucifixion, leaving the Messiah with "nothing" (Dan 7) and "this generation shall not pass away" somehow indicate a "pause" in the "Daniel chronology clock" for about 5 weeks of years from ~31 to 66 AD...

this seems to link to St. Paul's statement about a "restrainer" (2 Thess 2:6-7)

The Daniel clock does (did) not resume until the "restrainer" is (was) removed...

almost all agree that the "restrainer" has something to with the Gospel of Christ as preached by the Church (especially in 1st century AD Jerusalem... when High Priest Ananias martyred St. James, brother of the Lord, too, and the Christians fled the city, almost immediately God's Wrath, manifested through the Roman armies, raised Jerusalem)

The early church believed that the imperial Roman empire, under which the church was then living, was the restrainer which would eventually be "taken out of the way", but which was forestalling the emergence of the papal Roman empire, which Paul describes as the lawless one; and its eventual apostasy. Notice in the related verses in 2 Thess. 2 that Paul does not reveal the identity of the restrainer. If Paul had believed that the Holy Spirit or the Church was the restrainer, there would have been no reason for him not to explicitly name either one. But Paul did have a reason. John Chrysostom, an apologist of the later early post-apostolic era, reveals it:

"Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him...But because he said this of the Roman empire, he naturally glanced at it, and speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself superfluous enmities, and useless dangers. For if he had said that after a little while the Roman empire would be dissolved, they would immediately have even overwhelmed him, as a pestilent person, and all the faithful, as living and warring to this end."

Paul did not wish to jeopardize the Church by attracting the attention of the Roman authorities.

History subsequently confirmed the validity of Paul's inspired prescience.

Erik Nelson · Aug 25, 2018

jgr said:
454 BC + 454 years + 36 years = 36 AD = end of 70th week
36 AD - 7 years = 29 AD = beginning of 70th week
29 AD + 3.5 years = 32.5 AD = Christ's crucifixion

math is right, think you could also separate off the 70th week and attribute the same to the "anti-Prince" of the next verse

Erik Nelson · Aug 25, 2018

jgr said:
The early church believed that the imperial Roman empire, under which the church was then living, was the restrainer which would eventually be "taken out of the way", but which was forestalling the emergence of the papal Roman empire, which Paul describes as the lawless one; and its eventual apostasy. Notice in the related verses in 2 Thess. 2 that Paul does not reveal the identity of the restrainer. If Paul had believed that the Holy Spirit or the Church was the restrainer, there would have been no reason for him not to explicitly name either one. But Paul did have a reason. John Chrysostom, an apologist of the later early post-apostolic era, reveals it:

"Because if he meant to say the Spirit, he would not have spoken obscurely, but plainly, that even now the grace of the Spirit, that is the gifts, withhold him...But because he said this of the Roman empire, he naturally glanced at it, and speaks covertly and darkly. For he did not wish to bring upon himself superfluous enmities, and useless dangers. For if he had said that after a little while the Roman empire would be dissolved, they would immediately have even overwhelmed him, as a pestilent person, and all the faithful, as living and warring to this end."

Paul did not wish to jeopardize the Church by attracting the attention of the Roman authorities.

History subsequently confirmed the validity of Paul's inspired prescience.

The Greek G2722 is "kata-echo" = "hold down" (lit. "down hold")

Mostly used in the NT in reference to Christians "holding down" the Gospel they had already received

However, the 1st century Judaeans drove out the Roman authorities (66 AD) about the same time as the Christians felt compelled to flea Jerusalem (70 AD)

Conversely, "iniquity" = G458 = "anomia" = not+law, "lawless"... mostly used in the NT in reference to sinners who reject Jesus and the sins which only belief in Jesus can forgive.

Still think it's possible to support a "Christian Church" restraining vs. lawless "Christ rejecting Jerusalem establishment" explanation

Please note also that the Greeks says "until he comes out of the middle" (G3319 "mesos")… i.e. the restraining power resides "in the midst" of the sin, so holding it down... when the restrainer comes out from amidst the sinners, their lawlessness is "loosed" like an arrow from a previously-taught bow string

That fits the Christians fleeing out from amidst apostate Jerusalem in 70 AD, immediately after which Titus and the Roman armies sacked the city

Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

Is there a "gap" in the 70 weeks of Daniel 9"

No

Yes

I don't know

Other

Fully fulfilled

Half complete Half Future

All Future

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