Masturbation as a Sin (A Different Approach)

MartyF said:

First article - “masturbating too much”

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Someone asked a former pastor of mine at what point M became "habitual." He answered "If you ever did it more than once in your entire lifetime."

salt-n-light said:

o going back to masturbation, how is expressing that godly?

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In a couple of ways.

1 - it keeps something that God designed and gave for our good and enjoyment (the libido) from turning into an enemy.

2 - If you are going to spend time with someone you are attracted to, it can lower the hormones, thus keeping the libido from taking over and pushing you in directions you do not want to go.

MartyF said:

Can you read?

Really?

Can you read?!

First article - “masturbating too much”

Second article - “As with any of the true pleasures in life, however, moderation is key. If you're masturbating to an excessive degree, you could run the risk of not only interfering with your daily routine but your overall perception of life and fulfillment, too.”

Drinking water can kill you. So, stop drinking water.

Marty

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Can you? If so then stop inserting your opinions/desires and trying to make it godly.

Tetra said:

Who said masturbating is "godly"?

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I'm glad you cleared that up for me.
James 1:15-17 (KJV)
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
variableness - G3883 from a compound of <G3844> (para) and <G236> (allasso); transmutation (of phase or orbit), i.e. (figurative) fickleness :- variableness.
shadow- G2228 a primary particle of distinction between two connected terms; disjunctive, or; comparative, than :- and, but (either), (n-) either, except it be, (n-) or (else), rather, save, than, that, what, yea. Often used in connection with other particles. Compare especially <G2235> (ede), <G2260> (eper), <G2273> (etoi).
turning - G5157 from an apparently primary trepo (to turn); a turn (“trope”), i.e. revolution (figurative variation) :- turning.
Something to think about. A question for you. If something is not godly would that make it ungodly? And I'm just asking the question and am curious as to what your opinion is on it.

ColdSummer said:

For some reason I can't find literally a single thing right about getting married just for sexual purposes I respect your opinion there but I don't believe you really thought this through - do you really believe that just finding some random girl for the sole purpose of sex is - under any possible circumstance - better than just getting off time from time?

As for the second paragraph, you're missing my point there - I'm not saying void of any thought, I'm saying void of lusting thoughts. You can think of pretty much anything during it, it doesn't have to be another person (or drawing/whatever). It's obvious that having lusting thoughts about other people is wrong, but as for the physical activity of masturbation, I feel like people are just forcing their personal, non-spiritual opinions, way too hard.

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Isn’t that what people do when they are masturbating, imagining a scenario in which to perform out their desires?

What would be the difference then between masturbating and having sex? Might as well do it....

salt-n-light said:

Isn’t that what people do when they are masturbating, imagining a scenario in which to perform out their desires?

What would be the difference then between masturbating and having sex? Might as well do it....

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well, if you're not married, masturbation keeps your acts from harming others

Sir Robbins said:

well, if you're not married, masturbation keeps your acts from harming others

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You harm yourself that’s the curse of sexual sin. You sin against your own body. You can apply the same line of arguement with other sexual sins, doesn’t harm others.

salt-n-light said:

Isn’t that what people do when they are masturbating, imagining a scenario in which to perform out their desires?

What would be the difference then between masturbating and having sex? Might as well do it....

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But you're avoiding the point I was trying to make in my previous posts - you don't necessarily have to think about other people when masturbating; you can think about butterflies and rainbows for what it's worth. You seem to completely ignore the fact that people can touch just to release the sexual pressure without really having any lusting thoughts.

salt-n-light said:

You harm yourself that’s the curse of sexual sin. You sin against your own body. You can apply the same line of arguement with other sexual sins, doesn’t harm others.

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"you harm yourself that's the curse of sexual sin" - again, your personal opinion. The entire Bible talks about the harm of actual adultery (and thoughts about it) but you take one passage where it's not explicitly said and claim it as a rock solid support to your personal opinion about a physical act of masturbation.

salt-n-light said:

Isn’t that what people do when they are masturbating, imagining a scenario in which to perform out their desires?

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When people view inappropriate content or get lost in some erotic fantasy - yes.

What would be the difference then between masturbating and having sex? Might as well do it....

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Here is a scripture that IMO speaks to that:


When you have couple sex - this joining into "one flesh" happens, even if it is with a prostitute. (cannot get more causal and non-committal than that)

Masturbating by yourself does not allow for that joining. There is no one there to join to. And for that reason, it becomes a very different thing than couple sex.

ColdSummer said:

But you're avoiding the point I was trying to make in my previous posts - you don't necessarily have to think about other people when masturbating; you can think about butterflies and rainbows for what it's worth. You seem to completely ignore the fact that people can touch just to release the sexual pressure without really having any lusting thoughts.


"you harm yourself that's the curse of sexual sin" - again, your personal opinion. The entire Bible talks about the harm of actual adultery (and thoughts about it) but you take one passage where it's not explicitly said and claim it as a rock solid support to your personal opinion about a physical act of masturbation.

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But then what would make the pressure sexual if it wasn’t without a thought that is I don’t know.... sexual, lol.

Yes we can feel pressure from many things or triggered idk, but you describe it as sexual pressure. That’s distinct. So yes sexual pressure is due to sexual thoughts.

And it’s not opinion it’s biblical. (1 Corinthians 6:18) and that’s supported throughout the Bible. To honor the body, your body is a temple, etc. Ain’t nothing supporting masturbation period. The only people I’m seeing supporting it is people who lack self-control.

Dave-W said:

When people view inappropriate content or get lost in some erotic fantasy - yes.

Here is a scripture that IMO speaks to that:

1 Corinthians 6:16
Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “The two shall become one flesh.”​

When you have couple sex - this joining into "one flesh" happens, even if it is with a prostitute. (cannot get more causal and non-committal than that)

Masturbating by yourself does not allow for that joining. There is no one there to join to. And for that reason, it becomes a very different thing than couple sex.

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You don’t need inappropriate content to touch, all you need is imagery and a desire. You can produce that in your thoughts (eg daydream). It’s call escapism.

And my point was a lot of the cases being made is that men here have gone so long without a wife, or can’t seem to find one. So I just simply said to find one, if that is the blockage. But the problem is that’s not convienent, masturbation is. To actually find someone and be one flesh, if that is the issue, then find one to be one flesh with. But somehow they view masturbation as this loop hole that God didn’t care for. He did.

Somehow people think that God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob somehow addresss everything but masturbation....

Even within a marriage, how are you of one flesh but then find yourself still gravitating to solo acts? But instead of exploring the why, they just say “ well it doesn’t harm anyone so it’s okay” “ it makes my marriage work”.

salt-n-light said:

You don’t need inappropriate content to touch, all you need is imagery and a desire. You can produce that in your thoughts (eg daydream). It’s call escapism.

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You do not even need mental imagery, just the physical desire.

salt-n-light said:

Somehow people think that God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob somehow addresss everything but masturbation....

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Actually that would be Moses. He recorded the acts of Abraham Isaac and Jacob; and also wrote down all the rules and regulations for the people of God. Many of the prohibitions (including sexual) related to the idol worship of Egypt and the Canaanite people.
"M" got left off, even though it was a significant part of the Egyptian religion.

Dave-W said:

You do not even need mental imagery, just the physical desire.

Actually that would be Moses. He recorded the acts of Abraham Isaac and Jacob; and also wrote down all the rules and regulations for the people of God. Many of the prohibitions (including sexual) related to the idol worship of Egypt and the Canaanite people.
"M" got left off, even though it was a significant part of the Egyptian religion.

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No, we are visual beings. If you can tell me you had physical desires without any imagery in thought or sight, then I believe you. But knowing that you’re a heavy advocate for people masturbating ( I feel like this is the fifth post about masturbation I’ve seen you in), I doubt that.


Point is, there is no case for anyone masturbating no matter in or out of marriage. If the strongest is that it doesn’t hurt nobody, then that’s not a case at all. That is a worldly concept. Similar to those who say that monogamous gay unions are cool with God.l because He didn’t explicitly said anything against it.

salt-n-light said:

If you can tell me you had physical desires without any imagery in thought or sight, then I believe you.

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Well, believe it then.

Dave-W said:

Well, believe it then.

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Cyeahhhhh no.

salt-n-light said:

But then what would make the pressure sexual if it wasn’t without a thought that is I don’t know.... sexual, lol.

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Your hormones build up over time when you abstain, and they're toned down when you climax. It doesn't have to be supported by any sexual thoughts.

salt-n-light said:

Yes we can feel pressure from many things or triggered idk, but you describe it as sexual pressure. That’s distinct. So yes sexual pressure is due to sexual thoughts.

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Well if you're up to a word game then be it, let's call it a physical need release.

salt-n-light said:

And it’s not opinion it’s biblical. (1 Corinthians 6:18) and that’s supported throughout the Bible. To honor the body, your body is a temple, etc. Ain’t nothing supporting masturbation period. The only people I’m seeing supporting it is people who lack self-control.

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You keep talking about honoring your body. But tell me one thing. If masturbation is dishonoring your body, why isn't e.g. eating junk food? Not exercising properly? You surely aren't honoring your body if you don't work out since you aren't reaching it's potential.

You need to realize one thing. (1 Corinthians 6:18) says absolutely zero (nada, nothing, 0) directly about a physical act of masturbation. There's tons and tons of verses about adultery between two people, both physical and thought-based, but not a single one about a physical act of masturbation. Can you, just for a while, consider the fact that your entire opinion about masturbation are just your personal feelings since you - personally - see it as something "dirty"?

salt-n-light said:

Cyeahhhhh no.

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Believe what you want.

I cannot describe HOW I got that way, TMI for the forum. But suffice it to say it is true.

ColdSummer said:

Your hormones build up over time when you abstain, and they're toned down when you climax. It doesn't have to be supported by any sexual thoughts.



Well if you're up to a word game then be it, let's call it a physical need release.



You keep talking about honoring your body. But tell me one thing. If masturbation is dishonoring your body, why isn't e.g. eating junk food? Not exercising properly? You surely aren't honoring your body if you don't work out since you aren't reaching it's potential.

You need to realize one thing. (1 Corinthians 6:18) says absolutely zero (nada, nothing, 0) directly about a physical act of masturbation. There's tons and tons of verses about adultery between two people, both physical and thought-based, but not a single one about a physical act of masturbation. Can you, just for a while, consider the fact that your entire opinion about masturbation are just your personal feelings since you - personally - see it as something "dirty"?

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I keep talking about it, because you don’t get it. It’s the same old arguments. Not eating well and not taking care of your body is also dishonoring, but that seems to be an easier pill to swallow for you than masturbation.

Why should I consider that foolishness, because you feel right and you enjoy your five mins of pleasure, I must forsake my knowledge of the Word? Lol!

I know what’s Gods will is for my life, no matter how hard it is to swallow. Maybe you made peace with your sinful habits, but I dont plan to.

salt-n-light said:

I keep talking about it, because you don’t get it. It’s the same old arguments. Not eating well and not taking care of your body is also dishonoring, but that seems to be an easier pill to swallow for you than masturbation.

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Well funny you should say that, because I attend a Christian youth group at my area and funnily enough I haven't met a single ripped guy there. Which is a shame because if you're skinny, that means you're not reaching your body's potential. I guess we're all bunch of sinners going to hell because we don't "honor our bodies" properly, right?

salt-n-light said:

Why should I consider that foolishness, because you feel right and you enjoy your five mins of pleasure, I must forsake my knowledge of the Word? Lol!

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Yeah but then again, it's your knowledge and your burdens. Do you feel like there's universal truth for everonye? You think God has given everyone exactly the same path to follow? Tell me, have you sold everything you have yet and went out preaching God's word? Because that's what Bible preaches.

salt-n-light said:

I know what’s Gods will is for my life, no matter how hard it is to swallow. Maybe you made peace with your sinful habits, but I dont plan to.

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As I said in my previous statement, that's because it's how you feel and thus it's your burden. What makes you feel you're authorized to transfer this burden upon others? Everyone fights their own battle and everyone should primarily listen to their own conscience. Personally I've decided not to digest any alcohol besides Lord's Supper, but you won't hear me say a word when I see my friends drink some beers. And you know why? Because Bible isn't clear on this matter, and if my friends don't feel wrong about it, I'm not going to force my burden on them just so I feel better about carrying mine. Live and let live.

ColdSummer said:

Well funny you should say that, because I attend a Christian youth group at my area and funnily enough I haven't met a single ripped guy there. Which is a shame because if you're skinny, that means you're not reaching your body's potential. I guess we're all bunch of sinners going to hell because we don't "honor our bodies" properly, right?

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I’m not going to entertain what you just said.

ColdSummer said:

Yeah but then again, it's your knowledge and your burdens. Do you feel like there's universal truth for everonye? You think God has given everyone exactly the same path to follow? Tell me, have you sold everything you have yet and went out preaching God's word? Because that's what Bible preaches.

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God is the truth, the way, and the light. My wish is that everyone are on the same path towards God, no matter what stage or struggles they have. And they can because God grants us power to overcome this flesh. I’m living proof of that. That’s what I advocate for.

And I already know you’re taking scriptural reference out of context for the sake of making a point.So not gonna entertain that either.

ColdSummer said:

As I said in my previous statement, that's because it's how you feel and thus it's your burden. What makes you feel you're authorized to transfer this burden upon others? Everyone fights their own battle and everyone should primarily listen to their own conscience. Personally I've decided not to digest any alcohol besides Lord's Supper, but you won't hear me say a word when I see my friends drink some beers. And you know why? Because Bible isn't clear on this matter, and if my friends don't feel wrong about it, I'm not going to force my burden on them just so I feel better about carrying mine. Live and let live.

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The heart is desperately wicked, which man can know it for theirselves? Which person can truly say that their conscience is dependable? Of pure intent and justness? Where in the Word did God apply us to lean on our own understanding?

The Bible is very clear and is no favor of persons. Maybe for you you require a bigger sign to stop. Just because people struggle with their own temptations, doesn’t mean God desires us to fall prey to it. He gave us the Holy Spirit for a reason. The Word for a reason.He gives us wisdom for a reason. Not to be taking for granted the grace He gives us each day. But to honor Him. Honoring Him by honoring your body. Honoring what He created and those He put us in authority of. That’s the only authority I stand by when I speak on this issue, that and my testimony.

But again, you already plan to make peace with your temptations, I don’t plan to.