LDS Mormons and the Poor

He is the way

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What the...

I swear, this is like something that a parody account would write if its goal was to make Mormons seems exceptionally cruel and dense. I know you guys are better than this. You are better than your leaders and their horrible doctrines. But then somebody posts something like this and it's like...I don't even know what can be said...

I feel like this:

Lord have mercy!
Do you not know the blessings that God has promised those who pay tithing?

(Old Testament | Malachi 3:8 - 10)

8 ¶ Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.


Why withhold these blessings from the poor? Do you hate the poor? Do you think they should be cursed?
 
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Rescued One

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Do you not know the blessings that God has promised those who pay tithing?

(Old Testament | Malachi 3:8 - 10)

8 ¶ Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.


Why withhold these blessings from the poor? Do you hate the poor? Do you think they should be cursed?

Do you not know that the poor members of your church do not become able to provide for their families on the basis of paying tithes? We believe in helping the poor, not cursing them.

Proverbs 31:8-9
Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Proverbs 22:22-23
Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the Lord will take up their case and will exact life for life.

Proverbs 3:27-28
Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to act. Do not say to your neighbor, "Come back tomorrow and I’ll give it to you"—when you already have it with you.
 
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He is the way

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Do you not know that the poor members of your church do not become able to provide for their families on the basis of paying tithes? We believe in helping the poor, not cursing them.

Proverbs 31:8-9
Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Proverbs 22:22-23
Do not exploit the poor because they are poor and do not crush the needy in court, for the Lord will take up their case and will exact life for life.

Proverbs 3:27-28
Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to act. Do not say to your neighbor, "Come back tomorrow and I’ll give it to you"—when you already have it with you.
If you do not allow the poor to obey God, you are indeed cursing them. The Church of Jesus Christ has a fantastic welfare system:
https://www.lds.org/topics/welfare?lang=eng&old=true

Why do you doubt God and His blessings that are given to those who obey Him, never the less:

(New Testament | Matthew 6:1 - 4)

1 TAKE heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

(New Testament | Matthew 6:25 - 33)

25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

God will bless the poor who seek Him and keep His commandments.
 
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dzheremi

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Do you not know the blessings that God has promised those who pay tithing?

(Old Testament | Malachi 3:8 - 10)

8 ¶ Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Why withhold these blessings from the poor? Do you hate the poor? Do you think they should be cursed?

You are presenting a false choice and a false picture of things, as is common around these parts, that to follow the Bible means that you must follow how Mormons interpret it -- therefore if the Bible says this or that about tithing (or anything), and you tell the Mormon "no, that is not how it is to be understood", they will accuse you of disagreeing with the Bible.

It's stupid, juvenile, irritating, and I"m not going to get into a protracted argument with you about it.

Jesus Christ, our Lord and God, Whose yoke is sweet and Whose burden is light (Matthew 11:30), calls on us to tithe, yes, but does not make it the necessity that your religion makes it, and in fact speaks against such a "tithe at all costs" mentality, calling upon the Pharisees, for instance, not to place tithing ahead of the weightier matters of the law:

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.” (Matthew 23:23)

What justice or mercy is shown to the poor people of Kenya when they are told (falsely) that they must tithe to get out of poverty? How is this recognizing the place of tithing relative to the other things that should be manifest in the actions of your organization or any such organization that claims to do the work of God? Unless I've missed it, I don't believe that anyone in this thread has condemned the practice of tithing -- only the LDS Church's frankly disgusting way of going about it with the poor in Kenya.

I myself belong to a Church that practices tithing, but in no case do we ever, ever say the kinds of things that the LDS leaders are apparently saying to the poor in Africa, because it is just wrong to link salvation to donation in this manner that makes the offerings not true offerings at all. "Do this to get XYZ!" is a very different message -- particularly in the context of the poor in third world countries or other hardships -- than to encourage freely giving. I will tell you this honestly from my own experience: When I stayed in the Coptic monastery in NY, I gave out of what I had budgeted for a hotel (since I did not know what the rules were about having guests stay overnight) in a manner that was commensurate with the costs of housing and feeding me, and then also purchase a large stack of literature from the monastery's press, so as to support them even more. I currently support them on Amazon.com, as well (automatic donations via the AmazonSmile program; I highly recommend this to everybody who wants to donate to a charity and uses Amazon). None of this was ever asked for by anyone in the monastery at any point or in any fashion. I did it because I wanted to do it, not because they told me that by doing it I would get out of poverty (even if they had said it, it clearly didn't actually work out that way; I'm still living on a fixed income) or anything like that. That's simply not a message of Christianity; that is a message of the prosperity gospel which is a corruption of Christianity by those who want to fleece the poor and desperate.

The widow with the two mites was not lifted out of poverty, but she was lifted up as a saintly example for all of us out of her willingness to give, though her gift itself was small. There is absolutely nothing to object to in this (obviously), but any reading of this story that makes tithing a matter of salvation and necessity rather than willingness is just sick.

I will end with a quote from our father HH St. Cyril of Alexandria, who said the following in his 138th sermon on Gospel according to St. Luke (emphasis added; translation by Roger Pearse slightly modified to change one word that in an American context might be confused for a slur):

And as the very wise Paul says, "God loves a cheerful giver." And that it is right to be compassionate to the brethren, not ungenerous, nor as a matter of necessity, but of love rather without respect of persons, and blameless mutual affection, even the law of old made clear by saying, "And you shall not be grieved in your heart when you give to him: for therefore the Lord your God shall bless you in all your works, in whatsoever you put thereto your hand." As therefore Paul says, "He that gives, (let him do so) with bountifulness: he that holds preeminence with earnestness: he that has compassion, with cheerfulness." For love shown to poverty is not unfruitful, but is a debt that will be largely repaid.
(NB: This sermon was on 21:1-4, wherein the story of the widow and the two mites is found. It is curious to consider how this story, which revolves around a comparison between the charity shown by the poor and that shown by the rich, is interpreted in the actual historic Christian Church, in which HH was the archbishop of the great see of Alexandria, in such a way as to underline the need for unbiased and generous charity extended to the poor, as you can see above, whereas apparently the LDS organization is focused instead on what the poor ought to be doing with their money, i.e., how they ought to give it to the LDS organization. I am tempted to point out the obvious that the one who has just two mites does not need to be lectured on what charity is and how to engage in it, as they likely engage in it one way or another every day and hence understand it much better than some rich American, but HH's words make the point much more eloquently than I ever could.)
 
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ArmenianJohn

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No i didn't say they should be able to get Temple Recommends without paying their tithing.
Right, you are admitting that they MUST pay to get Temple Recommends. That's what I've been saying all along and you said they're not required to pay tithing for Temple Recommends; now you're admitting they MUST. Why didn't you just admit it earlier?
 
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Rescued One

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If you do not allow the poor to obey God, you are indeed cursing them.

When did any Christian tell someone to disobey God? We won't be cursing the poor by showing mercy instead of lying to them about the path out of poverty. Lying is a sin that God detests.

Matthew 5
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Did the Good Samaritan find out if the poor traveler had paid a full tithe?

My God blesses those who don't deserve it. Your god doesn't --- all his blessings depend on obedience to laws!

Doctrine and Covenants 130
21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/130.18-19

James 2
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

God is showing mercy to all who read this and see His truth. :heart:
 
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Rescued One

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Deuteronomy 16
17 Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee.

When I was LDS and lived with my husband and three children in a mobile home with only one car, I knew bishops and stake presidents who lived in luxurious homes. I provided childcare in our home while my husband worked two jobs, paid a full tithe and went to his church meetings as well as regularly doing his home teaching.
 
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He is the way

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You are presenting a false choice and a false picture of things, as is common around these parts, that to follow the Bible means that you must follow how Mormons interpret it -- therefore if the Bible says this or that about tithing (or anything), and you tell the Mormon "no, that is not how it is to be understood", they will accuse you of disagreeing with the Bible.

It's stupid, juvenile, irritating, and I"m not going to get into a protracted argument with you about it.

Jesus Christ, our Lord and God, Whose yoke is sweet and Whose burden is light (Matthew 11:30), calls on us to tithe, yes, but does not make it the necessity that your religion makes it, and in fact speaks against such a "tithe at all costs" mentality, calling upon the Pharisees, for instance, not to place tithing ahead of the weightier matters of the law:

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.” (Matthew 23:23)

What justice or mercy is shown to the poor people of Kenya when they are told (falsely) that they must tithe to get out of poverty? How is this recognizing the place of tithing relative to the other things that should be manifest in the actions of your organization or any such organization that claims to do the work of God? Unless I've missed it, I don't believe that anyone in this thread has condemned the practice of tithing -- only the LDS Church's frankly disgusting way of going about it with the poor in Kenya.

I myself belong to a Church that practices tithing, but in no case do we ever, ever say the kinds of things that the LDS leaders are apparently saying to the poor in Africa, because it is just wrong to link salvation to donation in this manner that makes the offerings not true offerings at all. "Do this to get XYZ!" is a very different message -- particularly in the context of the poor in third world countries or other hardships -- than to encourage freely giving. I will tell you this honestly from my own experience: When I stayed in the Coptic monastery in NY, I gave out of what I had budgeted for a hotel (since I did not know what the rules were about having guests stay overnight) in a manner that was commensurate with the costs of housing and feeding me, and then also purchase a large stack of literature from the monastery's press, so as to support them even more. I currently support them on Amazon.com, as well (automatic donations via the AmazonSmile program; I highly recommend this to everybody who wants to donate to a charity and uses Amazon). None of this was ever asked for by anyone in the monastery at any point or in any fashion. I did it because I wanted to do it, not because they told me that by doing it I would get out of poverty (even if they had said it, it clearly didn't actually work out that way; I'm still living on a fixed income) or anything like that. That's simply not a message of Christianity; that is a message of the prosperity gospel which is a corruption of Christianity by those who want to fleece the poor and desperate.

The widow with the two mites was not lifted out of poverty, but she was lifted up as a saintly example for all of us out of her willingness to give, though her gift itself was small. There is absolutely nothing to object to in this (obviously), but any reading of this story that makes tithing a matter of salvation and necessity rather than willingness is just sick.

I will end with a quote from our father HH St. Cyril of Alexandria, who said the following in his 138th sermon on Gospel according to St. Luke (emphasis added; translation by Roger Pearse slightly modified to change one word that in an American context might be confused for a slur):

And as the very wise Paul says, "God loves a cheerful giver." And that it is right to be compassionate to the brethren, not ungenerous, nor as a matter of necessity, but of love rather without respect of persons, and blameless mutual affection, even the law of old made clear by saying, "And you shall not be grieved in your heart when you give to him: for therefore the Lord your God shall bless you in all your works, in whatsoever you put thereto your hand." As therefore Paul says, "He that gives, (let him do so) with bountifulness: he that holds preeminence with earnestness: he that has compassion, with cheerfulness." For love shown to poverty is not unfruitful, but is a debt that will be largely repaid.
(NB: This sermon was on 21:1-4, wherein the story of the widow and the two mites is found. It is curious to consider how this story, which revolves around a comparison between the charity shown by the poor and that shown by the rich, is interpreted in the actual historic Christian Church, in which HH was the archbishop of the great see of Alexandria, in such a way as to underline the need for unbiased and generous charity extended to the poor, as you can see above, whereas apparently the LDS organization is focused instead on what the poor ought to be doing with their money, i.e., how they ought to give it to the LDS organization. I am tempted to point out the obvious that the one who has just two mites does not need to be lectured on what charity is and how to engage in it, as they likely engage in it one way or another every day and hence understand it much better than some rich American, but HH's words make the point much more eloquently than I ever could.)
The Bible is very clear that paying tithing has great blessings attached to obeying that law. I have explained to you why it is necessary to pay tithing in order to receive these blessings yet you continue to hate the poor. Why do you NOT want them to have these blessings in their lives? It is important to give and be charitable. Every person on earth needs to be charitable (a cheerful giver). Charity is greater than faith and hope. Jesus Christ explained to us that charity is not just for the rich yet you continue to deny this, why? You should follow Jesus Christ and His teachings.
 
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drstevej

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Why do you NOT want them to have these blessings in their lives? It is important to give and be charitable.

Giving to a cult (Mormonism) is not a blessing. It enables error and is a false gospel that fits people for Hell.
 
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He is the way

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Right, you are admitting that they MUST pay to get Temple Recommends. That's what I've been saying all along and you said they're not required to pay tithing for Temple Recommends; now you're admitting they MUST. Why didn't you just admit it earlier?
Anyone can attend meetings at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints unless the break civil laws. There are stipulations to becoming a member but tithing is not one of them. There are also stipulations to entering into the temple. Those who are not ready to make covenants with God should not attend as it could have serious consequences to their salvation. For this reason it is important that this person is living a higher law to avoid the greater condemnation from God. Those who are not willing to obey God should not make covenants with Him. Anciently there was a book kept in the temple called the book of the covenant. It is mentioned in 2 Kings chapter 23: 2-3.
 
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Deuteronomy 16
17 Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee.

When I was LDS and lived with my husband and three children in a mobile home with only one car, I knew bishops and stake presidents who lived in luxurious homes. I provided childcare in our home while my husband worked two jobs, paid a full tithe and went to his church meetings as well as regularly doing his home teaching.
Poor families all over the world have been greatly blessed for paying tithes and offerings. One of the early widow members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints:

"Mary Fielding Smith remained faithful to the end of her life. She paid tithing, even in her poverty. When someone inappropriately suggested she not contribute a tenth of the potatoes she had grown that year, she responded, “You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Would you deny me a blessing? … I pay my tithing, not only because it is a law of God, but because I expect a blessing by doing it.”2 She established a farm in the Salt Lake Valley and taught her children the gospel. President Joseph F. Smith later said, “She taught me honor, and virtue, and truth, and integrity to the kingdom of God, and she taught me not only by precept but by example.”3"

From: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2011/07/small-and-simple-things/mary-fielding-smith?lang=eng
 
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dzheremi

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The Bible is very clear that paying tithing has great blessings attached to obeying that law. I have explained to you why it is necessary to pay tithing in order to receive these blessings yet you continue to hate the poor. Why do you NOT want them to have these blessings in their lives?

Well, to follow Dr. Steve's good note, I don't want anyone to give anything to Mormonism. I want Mormonism to starve and die, because it is false and risks people's souls. But more generally, I don't want poor people to not be blessed.

It is important to give and be charitable. Every person on earth needs to be charitable (a cheerful giver). Charity is greater than faith and hope.

What? No it isn't. What a thing to say. That practically couldn't be more wrong. Luke 7:50 and 18:42, Matthew 9:22, and many other Bible verses testify that it is faith that saves and heals us. Heck, one of the most famous passages in St. Paul's epistles (in 1 Corinthians 13) goes on and on about how great faith, hope, and love are to make the point that love is the greatest of all -- even greater than prophecy (*cough*) -- and yet does not mention charity once.

None of this is to demean charity in the slightest, but there's a reason why we can't simply pay our way into heaven...at least not in Christianity. Maybe in Mormonism you can, but Mormonism isn't Christianity anyway so who cares.

Jesus Christ explained to us that charity is not just for the rich yet you continue to deny this, why? You should follow Jesus Christ and His teachings.

No I don't -- I'm the one who brought up the widow and the two mites in the first place! The point of that story is not only that charity is good for the poor to engage in, but that they are often better at it than the rich! Stop trying to turn things around like this.

Again, as I wrote in the previous post, nobody here is against charity or tithing (or if they are, they haven't shown it in any post in this thread), but we are against the message that the LDS religion is giving in Kenya that to lift themselves out of poverty, the poor of that country must give of their meager earnings to the multi-billion dollar LDS Corporation. That's insane. That's an almost cartoonish level of evil masquerading as following God, and nothing you post can change that. The LDS religion would have to change that message itself.
 
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He is the way

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Giving to a cult (Mormonism) is not a blessing. It enables error and is a false gospel that fits people for Hell.
I know that paying tithes and offerings to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints brings blessings from God. I have seen it.
 
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dzheremi

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And out come the Mormon testimonies, i.e., the proof that the poster in question has no actual argument! We're supposed to just take his word for it, and presumably follow suit. No thanks!
 
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drstevej

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I know that paying tithes and offerings to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints brings blessings from God. I have seen it.


Satan is just baiting you. Giving to a cult is giving to Satan.
 
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Well, to follow Dr. Steve's good note, I don't want anyone to give anything to Mormonism. I want Mormonism to starve and die, because it is false and risks people's souls. But more generally, I don't want poor people to not be blessed.



What? No it isn't. What a thing to say. That practically couldn't be more wrong. Luke 7:50 and 18:42, Matthew 9:22, and many other Bible verses testify that it is faith that saves and heals us. Heck, one of the most famous passages in St. Paul's epistles (in 1 Corinthians 13) goes on and on about how great faith, hope, and love are to make the point that love is the greatest of all -- even greater than prophecy (*cough*) -- and yet does not mention charity once.

None of this is to demean charity in the slightest, but there's a reason why we can't simply pay our way into heaven...at least not in Christianity. Maybe in Mormonism you can, but Mormonism isn't Christianity anyway so who cares.



No I don't -- I'm the one who brought up the widow and the two mites in the first place! The point of that story is not only that charity is good for the poor to engage in, but that they are often better at it than the rich! Stop trying to turn things around like this.

Again, as I wrote in the previous post, nobody here is against charity or tithing (or if they are, they haven't shown it in any post in this thread), but we are against the message that the LDS religion is giving in Kenya that to lift themselves out of poverty, the poor of that country must give of their meager earnings to the multi-billion dollar LDS Corporation. That's insane. That's an almost cartoonish level of evil masquerading as following God, and nothing you post can change that. The LDS religion would have to change that message itself.
Well, to follow Dr. Steve's good note, I don't want anyone to give anything to Mormonism. I want Mormonism to starve and die, because it is false and risks people's souls. But more generally, I don't want poor people to not be blessed.



What? No it isn't. What a thing to say. That practically couldn't be more wrong. Luke 7:50 and 18:42, Matthew 9:22, and many other Bible verses testify that it is faith that saves and heals us. Heck, one of the most famous passages in St. Paul's epistles (in 1 Corinthians 13) goes on and on about how great faith, hope, and love are to make the point that love is the greatest of all -- even greater than prophecy (*cough*) -- and yet does not mention charity once.

None of this is to demean charity in the slightest, but there's a reason why we can't simply pay our way into heaven...at least not in Christianity. Maybe in Mormonism you can, but Mormonism isn't Christianity anyway so who cares.



No I don't -- I'm the one who brought up the widow and the two mites in the first place! The point of that story is not only that charity is good for the poor to engage in, but that they are often better at it than the rich! Stop trying to turn things around like this.

Again, as I wrote in the previous post, nobody here is against charity or tithing (or if they are, they haven't shown it in any post in this thread), but we are against the message that the LDS religion is giving in Kenya that to lift themselves out of poverty, the poor of that country must give of their meager earnings to the multi-billion dollar LDS Corporation. That's insane. That's an almost cartoonish level of evil masquerading as following God, and nothing you post can change that. The LDS religion would have to change that message itself.
(New Testament | Acts 9:5)

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
 
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dzheremi

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Hahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaha.

So I'm Saul because your corporate 'church' that exploits the faith of poor people in the third world doesn't get a pass from this website even though you claim that it really helps people who give it money it doesn't need?

Alright then. Good to know. I think that's a horrible misapplication of that verse that fails completely (you might as well have picked out anything at random), but it's nice to remember that when you have no actual answer for a post, you can always just throw out verses about persecution, as though someone disagreeing with you on the internet is akin to the actual murder of Christians.

I'll keep that in mind whenever any Mormon posts anything I disagree with.
 
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drstevej

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(New Testament | Acts 9:5)

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

More Mormon eisegesis.

Wikipedia - eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.

btw. Greek text reads... 5 ειπεν δε τις ει κυριε ο δε εγω ειμι ιησους ον συ διωκεις
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Anyone can attend meetings at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints unless the break civil laws. There are stipulations to becoming a member but tithing is not one of them.
Nobody ever said otherwise. You are creating a red herring here in order to distract from the fact that mormonism requires people to PAY MONEY for salvation.

There are also stipulations to entering into the temple.
Yes - STIPULATIONS! And one of those stipulations is to PAY MONEY to the religion! Thank you for confirming this. Stipulations to enter the temple (which is required for salvation) include paying money to the religion. It is extortion. The mormon religion says "pay us money or else you do not get salvation according to the plan of salvation".

Can someone become a god if they don't pay money? That's the matter at hand here.

Those who are not ready to make covenants with God should not attend as it could have serious consequences to their salvation. For this reason it is important that this person is living a higher law to avoid the greater condemnation from God. Those who are not willing to obey God should not make covenants with Him. Anciently there was a book kept in the temple called the book of the covenant. It is mentioned in 2 Kings chapter 23: 2-3.
Nobody has to make any covenants with God. The Bible says not to swear or make any oaths but let your responses be "yea, yea or nay, nay".

There is noplace in God's Word where individuals need to make ANY covenants with God for anything. That's just another part of Freemasonry that mormonism adopted. It's actually occultism, which makes sense because mormonism is an occult religion.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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I know that paying tithes and offerings to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints brings blessings from God. I have seen it.
You THINK that but you don't KNOW it. In fact, in mormonism there are no blessings. There is quid pro quo only. Pay for something and you get something back. Mormonism's version of karma - that's all it is.

A true blessing is not paid for.

Let me ask you this - when you go buy something, anything - gas, groceries, fast food, a hammer, anything - do you consider that to be a blessing from the company you bought it from? Do McDonald's, Home Depot, and Exxon provide you with blessings? Sounds like that's your idea of a "blessing". You get something that you want or need after you pay for it = BLESSING in mormonism.

In Christianity, that's just looked at as buying or earning, exchanging money or services or items for other services or items or payment/money. In Christianity, blessings come from our God who gives FREELY; God does not demand payment of some form for His Blessings. If He did, we'd get far less than what we are getting.

How is it to have a god that makes you buy everything from him? He sounds like a cheapskate who needs to take things from you. He sounds like he will extort you for your money, time, services, possessions, etc.

Is it because you believe your god is nothing more than another man who has completed the mormon program? Is that why you believe your god is cheap and demanding? It's quite clear your god doesn't do a single thing for anyone unless they've paid (all they can). What a hopeless life and future mormons have.

Your only way out is to recognize that the True God does not make you do the impossible in trying to earn every single thing including salvation. The True God forgives and is merciful and full of Grace. The True God blesses and gives instead of demanding payments of various types. You and all mormons really need to get to know God.
 
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