Which commandments to obey?

Kaon said:

That no one can follow the law perfectly (now) doesn't mean we shouldn't be practicing for eternity.

Another way to put it is that the Most High God has never changed His Law. In fact, the Redeemer made it harder because we are training to be new creatures. Mere entertainment of the thoughts of sin would be equal to doing the act.

The law has not changed in foundation; they are all still in effect. The Redeemer didn't come to change or abolish the law; He has said this Himself.

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Loren T. said:

No, He fulfilled all the requirements of the law and the law is no longer needed.

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justbyfaith said:

If there is a law in eternity and if one might be condemned by violating it, then eternity isn't secure for anyone. You could go 10,000 years and then someone offers you bacon and you are kicked out of heaven because you ate some.

Now is there bacon in eternity? What I am saying is that there would be no such thing as bacon there if the eating of it would mean that I would lose my place in eternity.

Once we get there, I doubt there will be anything that God sets forth as forbidden fruit that if we do this or that, we would lose our salvation and be lost for ever.

As long as I walk according to true love (according to the Spirit) there is no law against anything that would be my behaviour (Galatians 5:18, Galatians 5:22-23)

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justbyfaith said:

You talking to me?

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justbyfaith said:

If I'm not misunderstanding you, we have the same position on this issue. But I asked because your post came immediately after mine; and there might be confusion if there is a language barrier.

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Loren T. said:

Matthew 5:17-18
Thank God that through His death and resurrection all was accomplished!
Now how about some bacon?

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justbyfaith said:

There is the question of which commandments we are to obey in 1 John 5:3 and in 2 John 1:6, as the result of loving the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Do we obey all of the commandments in the Old Testament? Matthew 5:17-20, Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16, Jeremiah 31:33, Romans 8:4-7 would seem to tell us so.

We will be called great in the kingdom if we obey and teach the least of these God's commandments. In context (in Matthew 5:17-20) Jesus is talking about the Old Testament law.

But concerning this, it seems that Jesus Himself taught that the Old Testament commandments concerning food laws and the sabbath are now invalid. For He Himself broke the sabbath according to John's testimony (John 5:18); and He also proclaimed on more than one occasion that all foods are now clean (Mark 7:14-19, Luke 11:41, Romans 14:14).

Yet the law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24-25); it shows men their sin (Romans 3:20) and brings them to the place of being converted (Psalms 19:7). I don't think that this is talking about the law as it is now that it has been changed for the believer (Hebrews 7:12).

The law has only been changed in that it is no longer given to us as a set of do's and don'ts, but as a list of virtues to be exemplified and vices to be avoided (Galatians 5:16-24). We are told not to walk according to the flesh and that we will reap what we sow, even as believers (Galatians 6:7-8).

And also, the Old Testament sacrifices are no longer needed, because Christ dying on the Cross is the fulfillment of them.

So then, concerning food laws and sabbath days, it seems that if I am going to be great in the kingdom, I should obey and teach them (Matthew 5:17-20); however it also seems that Jesus Himself taught that the sabbath is not all-important, and that neither are the food laws.

It seems to be kind of like the teaching Jesus gave about whether to be an eunuch or not. "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Those who break the least of these commandments and teach men so will not be excluded from the kingdom (in Matthew 5:17-20); but they will be called least in the kingdom.

God is wanting to bring back His Jewish people into the fold of those accepted by Him through faith in the Messiah. In 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14, we are told to be sensitive to the consciences of our weaker brothers and sisters (those who feel that the food laws define what is clean and unclean; or those who hold the sabbath day above other days). Perhaps even to the extent of observing these laws ourselves, since at any moment we might come into contact with a weaker brother or sister, who may be stumbled by our liberty, their conscience being emboldened to eat what they do not in reality have liberty to eat. We ought to bear the infirmities of the weak and not to please ourselves, even if we ourselves are stronger and feel that we have the liberty to eat what is unclean or to work on Saturday. Jesus did say that it is lawful to do well, what is good and right, on the sabbath days. He redefined the sabbath for us; He is the Lord of the sabbath; I am not certain that He abolished it completely. It is an excellent principle to follow that we should set aside time to rest and spend time with the Lord between Him and us alone. And food laws are now reduced to being an indicating factor of whether or not we have the love of God in our hearts towards a weaker brother, since in 1 Timothy 4:1-6 it becomes clear that every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused if it be received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. So as Gentile believers we have the right to eat what our culture tells us is good; while if we know that we even might be in the presence of a weaker (Jewish) brother or sister we ought to be sensitive to their consciences and refrain from eating what we might otherwise have liberty to eat.

And Jesus healed on the sabbath, even though it stumbled the scribes and Pharisees who were looking onward. However He was redefining the sabbath as the One who made it; because the scribes and Pharisees had taken it too far and had made an idol out of keeping strict laws concerning it. Paul's exhortation in Romans 14 concerning the sabbath is let every man be fully convinced in his own mind as to whether he holds one day above another or whether he holds every day alike. And the weaker brother is not to judge the stronger brother; and the stronger brother is not to hold the weaker brother in contempt.

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justbyfaith said:

The thing is, eternity begins for us the moment we believe (John 5:24), and therefore if I eat bacon here, it is not something that is going to take away my salvation in God or my place in eternity.

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Kaon said:

Ok.

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Dave L said:

The TEN Commandments ARE the Old Covenant the New Covenant replaced them.

In Exodus 34:28 we read: “And He (God) wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.”

Deuteronomy 4:13: “And He declared unto you His covenant, which He commanded you to perform, even the Ten Commandments.”

Deuteronomy 9:9: “When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant.”

Deuteronomy 9:15: “So I turned and came down from the mount . . . and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.”

Deuteronomy 10:8: “At that time the LORD set apart the tribe of Levi to carry the ark of the LORD’s covenant, to stand before the LORD to serve him, and to formulate blessings in his name, as they do to this very day.”

And Jeremiah and Hebrews say Christ replaced the Old Covenant with the New.

““Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord. “But I will make a new covenant with the whole nation of Israel after I plant them back in the land,” says the Lord. “I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds. I will be their God and they will be my people.” (Jeremiah 31:31–33) (NET)


“For if that first covenant had been faultless, no one would have looked for a second one. But showing its fault, God says to them, “Look, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will complete a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. “It will not be like the covenant that I made with their fathers, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant and I had no regard for them, says the Lord. “For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people. “And there will be no need at all for each one to teach his countryman or each one to teach his brother saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ since they will all know me, from the least to the greatest. “For I will be merciful toward their evil deeds, and their sins I will remember no longer.” When he speaks of a new covenant, he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear.” (Hebrews 8:7–13) (NET)

The Ten Commandments for instruction and commentary

Since Christ abolished the Old Covenant, we use the Ten Commandments for instruction and commentary in defining outward sin. But Before the Ten Commandments and during the time of the Old Covenant, believers like Abraham had the two great commandments written in their heart. Just as believers today.

Love fulfills the Law

If love motivates your thoughts and actions, you won't want to steal or murder. Instead of stealing you will want to give. Instead of murdering you will love your enemies and bless them instead.

“Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” (Romans 13:10)

“But if you fulfill the royal law as expressed in this scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.” (James 2:8)

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Kaon said:

Show me one place where The Most High God, or The Word of God Himself ever said that the ten commandments, or any part of the Law has been replaced, made void, or is no longer applicable.


Not humans, from the Arbiters of the Law.

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justbyfaith said:

There is the question of which commandments we are to obey in 1 John 5:3 and in 2 John 1:6, as the result of loving the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Do we obey all of the commandments in the Old Testament? Matthew 5:17-20, Hebrews 8:10, Hebrews 10:16, Jeremiah 31:33, Romans 8:4-7 would seem to tell us so.

We will be called great in the kingdom if we obey and teach the least of these God's commandments. In context (in Matthew 5:17-20) Jesus is talking about the Old Testament law.

But concerning this, it seems that Jesus Himself taught that the Old Testament commandments concerning food laws and the sabbath are now invalid. For He Himself broke the sabbath according to John's testimony (John 5:18); and He also proclaimed on more than one occasion that all foods are now clean (Mark 7:14-19, Luke 11:41, Romans 14:14).

Yet the law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24-25); it shows men their sin (Romans 3:20) and brings them to the place of being converted (Psalms 19:7). I don't think that this is talking about the law as it is now that it has been changed for the believer (Hebrews 7:12).

The law has only been changed in that it is no longer given to us as a set of do's and don'ts, but as a list of virtues to be exemplified and vices to be avoided (Galatians 5:16-24). We are told not to walk according to the flesh and that we will reap what we sow, even as believers (Galatians 6:7-8).

And also, the Old Testament sacrifices are no longer needed, because Christ dying on the Cross is the fulfillment of them.

So then, concerning food laws and sabbath days, it seems that if I am going to be great in the kingdom, I should obey and teach them (Matthew 5:17-20); however it also seems that Jesus Himself taught that the sabbath is not all-important, and that neither are the food laws.

It seems to be kind of like the teaching Jesus gave about whether to be an eunuch or not. "He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

Those who break the least of these commandments and teach men so will not be excluded from the kingdom (in Matthew 5:17-20); but they will be called least in the kingdom.

God is wanting to bring back His Jewish people into the fold of those accepted by Him through faith in the Messiah. In 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14, we are told to be sensitive to the consciences of our weaker brothers and sisters (those who feel that the food laws define what is clean and unclean; or those who hold the sabbath day above other days). Perhaps even to the extent of observing these laws ourselves, since at any moment we might come into contact with a weaker brother or sister, who may be stumbled by our liberty, their conscience being emboldened to eat what they do not in reality have liberty to eat. We ought to bear the infirmities of the weak and not to please ourselves, even if we ourselves are stronger and feel that we have the liberty to eat what is unclean or to work on Saturday. Jesus did say that it is lawful to do well, what is good and right, on the sabbath days. He redefined the sabbath for us; He is the Lord of the sabbath; I am not certain that He abolished it completely. It is an excellent principle to follow that we should set aside time to rest and spend time with the Lord between Him and us alone. And food laws are now reduced to being an indicating factor of whether or not we have the love of God in our hearts towards a weaker brother, since in 1 Timothy 4:1-6 it becomes clear that every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused if it be received with thanksgiving; for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. So as Gentile believers we have the right to eat what our culture tells us is good; while if we know that we even might be in the presence of a weaker (Jewish) brother or sister we ought to be sensitive to their consciences and refrain from eating what we might otherwise have liberty to eat.

And Jesus healed on the sabbath, even though it stumbled the scribes and Pharisees who were looking onward. However He was redefining the sabbath as the One who made it; because the scribes and Pharisees had taken it too far and had made an idol out of keeping strict laws concerning it. Paul's exhortation in Romans 14 concerning the sabbath is let every man be fully convinced in his own mind as to whether he holds one day above another or whether he holds every day alike. And the weaker brother is not to judge the stronger brother; and the stronger brother is not to hold the weaker brother in contempt.

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