REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY

Barney2.0 · Jul 18, 2018

Choir Loft said:
Origins of Judaism
Jewish theology remains basically intact today as it was in Jesus' time. Even the pharisees continue essentially unchanged in beliefs - in Orthodox Judaism also known as the Hasadim of the 21st century.

Hebrew hasn't changed that much. Ancient texts can still be read as though written by a modern hand. Traditions of Judaism haven't changed that much. Pesach, for example, is practiced today with little or no changes since ancient times. Other traditions and ceremonies are likewise similar.

Theological heresy
Replacement Theology, is nationalistic at its core. The Bible teaches that JESUS CHRIST, not some nation - not any nation - is the ROOT. Israel is the natural and original member of that root and gentiles have been invited to join the root (Jesus). At no point does the Bible teach that in order to be saved one must become a citizen of the State of Israel. This is a deliberate obfuscation.

Crimes Against Humanity and Religious Misrepresentation
My statements about church history are all correct, including but not limited to massive militarist aggression, intellectual suppression of entire populations, genocide and self-justified righteousness.

Anti-Semitism
The phrase is understood by everyone who hears it. Caliginous definitions do not remove the stain of hatred of Jews.

Orthodox Church Head
I have no idea what you mean by "orthodox head of the church". I seriously doubt you do either.

The Patriarch of Constantinople Bartholomew I, is the proprietary head of the Orthodox Church. However, this leadership is mostly figurative as churches of the Orthodox division of Christianity are all autonomous in theory and practice.

My remarks regarding the church were primarily directed at the Latin division; that which is understood by western folk as the Roman Catholic Church and the multiple divisions of the Protestant movement. My remarks also apply to the Eastern or Orthodox church as well albeit minus the militarist component.

Bottom line here is that I think you're not willing to swallow the truth as I've tried to share it. You need to educate yourself away from Christian propaganda and loyalty to a religious philosophy that has denied the power and hand of Almighty God at work in the world as well as the gospel of salvation of Jesus Christ.

This last is most important to individuals, but sadly has been corrupted by the church as well.

Church membership cards are not fire proof.

Only peace with God in the Name of Jesus Christ will save.

Seek Christ in the pages of the Holy Bible. If you look for Him in church you may not find Him at all.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Hebrew has changed significantly:

https://www.linguajunkie.com/hebrew/biblical-hebrew-vs-modern-hebrew

There is historical differences betweeen the first and second temple Judaism in history. The patriarch of Constantinople is only one of the many patriarchs that form the Orthodox Church, our Church has only one real head that’s jesus. How can you be an Anti Semite if you only hate Jews, Jews aren’t the only Semitic race and I am also Semitic. The Church is now Israel as are all believers in Christ. The Holy Bible points me to the One Holy Apostolic Church.

Choir Loft · Jul 18, 2018

Al Masihi said:
Hebrew has changed significantly:

https://www.linguajunkie.com/hebrew/biblical-hebrew-vs-modern-hebrew

There is historical differences betweeen the first and second temple Judaism in history. The patriarch of Constantinople is only one of the many patriarchs that form the Orthodox Church, our Church has only one real head that’s jesus. How can you be an Anti Semite if you only hate Jews, Jews aren’t the only Semitic race and I am also Semitic. The Church is now Israel as are all believers in Christ. The Holy Bible points me to the One Holy Apostolic Church.

Reiteration of false assumptions do not carry the weight of truth, unless of course one wishes to remain in the darkness of self-delusion.

I'll only address one of your points, since I've done a good job of explaining the others in previous posts. Go back and read them again if you truly wish to understand my meaning. Otherwise you may continue to slog along in your spiritual journey carrying the weight of misunderstanding when God intends you to be free of it.

The church is nothing. Have I not given adequate reasons for my statement? Go back and reread them.

The HOLY BIBLE points to JESUS CHRIST. That's it and that's all.

The holy apostolic church does not appear there at all.

There are no references implied or explicit with regard to the Holy Apostolic Church. As I previously stated that form was initiated by Emperor Constantine in 313AD via the Edict of Milan. Look it up.

It was Constantine, not the Bible and certainly not Jesus that legalized Christianity.

In the year 1054 the church divided leadership between Rome in the west and Constantinople in the east. Its called The Great Schism. Look it up.

The whole thing was, and continues to be, a CONTROL ISSUE. In other words, the argument has nothing to do with the kingdom of God, of salvation, of Jesus Christ or how to celebrate one's faith. It's all about power and the manipulation of the gullible masses.

The Church is NOT ISRAEL. You cannot be accepted as a citizen of Israel - or the Kingdom of God - by means of church affiliation. It's not about the church, brother. Get it? It's about Jesus.

Believers in Christ are adopted sons and daughters of God - WITH and along side of Israel. Salvation is NOT a nationalistic nor religious agenda. Read the Bible. Please. You are sincere, but you are sincerely wrong about the form and purpose of the church.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....

Barney2.0 · Jul 18, 2018

Choir Loft said:
Reiteration of false assumptions do not carry the weight of truth, unless of course one wishes to remain in the darkness of self-delusion.

I'll only address one of your points, since I've done a good job of explaining the others in previous posts. Go back and read them again if you truly wish to understand my meaning. Otherwise you may continue to slog along in your spiritual journey carrying the weight of misunderstanding when God intends you to be free of it.

The church is nothing. Have I not given adequate reasons for my statement? Go back and reread them.

The HOLY BIBLE points to JESUS CHRIST. That's it and that's all.

The holy apostolic church does not appear there at all.

There are no references implied or explicit with regard to the Holy Apostolic Church. As I previously stated that form was initiated by Emperor Constantine in 313AD via the Edict of Milan. Look it up.

It was Constantine, not the Bible and certainly not Jesus that legalized Christianity.

In the year 1054 the church divided leadership between Rome in the west and Constantinople in the east. Its called The Great Schism. Look it up.

The whole thing was, and continues to be, a CONTROL ISSUE. In other words, the argument has nothing to do with the kingdom of God, of salvation, of Jesus Christ or how to celebrate one's faith. It's all about power and the manipulation of the gullible masses.

The Church is NOT ISRAEL. You cannot be accepted as a citizen of Israel - or the Kingdom of God - by means of church affiliation. It's not about the church, brother. Get it? It's about Jesus.

Believers in Christ are adopted sons and daughters of God - WITH and along side of Israel. Salvation is NOT a nationalistic nor religious agenda. Read the Bible. Please. You are sincere, but you are sincerely wrong about the form and purpose of the church.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....

The great Schism happened due to the Church of Rome inventing an authority for itself which did not exist and then tried to force it down the other Churches. The Church is Israel.

David Kent · Jul 18, 2018

Choir Loft said:
Hebrew hasn't changed that much. Ancient texts can still be read as though written by a modern hand. Traditions of Judaism haven't changed that much. Pesach, for example, is practiced today with little or no changes since ancient times. Other traditions and ceremonies are likewise similar.

Christian Witness to Israel are making a new translation into Hebrew, because they say the current Hebrew bible is almost like the AV bible to some, only worse.

David Kent · Jul 18, 2018

Al Masihi said:
The above you’ve stated about the Bible and Church is heresy, you seem to be talking about Catholics and Protestants. The Orthodox Church has no head except Jesus Christ himself, it recognizes the Jewish roots of the faith and practices them, worships the God of Israel, and accepts the Bible as his words that worked through inspired men of God who wrote the Bible. The Anti Semitic accusation doesn’t make sense, to be an Anti Semite you’d have to hate all Semitic races, Jews aren’t the only Semites, and I’m more Semitic then most Jews. So the accusation goes out the window. No Jew or Gentile is chosen by God unless he/she accepts the New Covenant brought by Christ to the world for Jews and Gentiles.

Baptists have no head but Christ. They have never persecuted anyone as far as I can trace. Catholics and Orthodox have both persecuted and murdered many Christians.

Barney2.0 · Jul 18, 2018

David Kent said:
Baptists have no head but Christ. They have never persecuted anyone as far as I can trace. Catholics and Orthodox have both persecuted and murdered many Christians.

When and where did we persecuted many Christians, even if there were persecutions its not as if the people who made those decisions were not in error or were infallible.

David Kent · Jul 18, 2018

Choir Loft said:
Origins of Judaism
Jewish theology remains basically intact today as it was in Jesus' time. Even the pharisees continue essentially unchanged in beliefs - in Orthodox Judaism also known as the Hasadim of the 21st century.

It was Jewish theology that God dismissed in Habbakuk, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Jesus also did in Matthew 23 and other places. The former resulted in the destruction of the former temple and the Babylonian captivity. The latter resulted in the destruction temple by Titus and Jews being killed sent into slaver and banned from the country. Are the Jews of today any better than their ancestors. Do they accept the Saviour? If not they are just like those in the scriptures.

David Kent · Jul 18, 2018

Al Masihi said:
When and where did we persecuted many Christians, even if there were persecutions its not as if the people who made those decisions were not in error or were infallible.

That is a cop out. Orthodox murdered many Paulicians incliding over 100.000 in one incident. Then there were the Bogomils.

Barney2.0 · Jul 18, 2018

David Kent said:
That is a cop out. Orthodox murdered many Paulicians incliding over 100.000 in one incident. Then there were the Bogomils.

Both of those cults and sects were heretical and secondly no one is saying the Church leaders who ordered those massacres were not in error in their decisions.

David Kent · Jul 18, 2018

Al Masihi said:
Both of those cults and sects were heretical and secondly no one is saying the Church leaders who ordered those massacres were not in error in their decisions.

I do. They were no heretics but true Christians, The heretics were those who murdered them.

You seem to agree, like Rome, that it is OK to murder those who don't agree with you.
Very enlightening.

Barney2.0 · Jul 19, 2018

David Kent said:
I do. They were no heretics but true Christians, The heretics were those who murdered them.

You seem to agree, like Rome, that it is OK to murder those who don't agree with you.
Very enlightening.

Paulicians were dualistic which is heretical on Biblical grounds and rejected the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible. Bogomils were also dualistic, they rejected the incarnation of Christ, Baptism, and the Eucharist. These were no Christians, but full on Heretics. I don’t think I used the words it’s ok to kill those who don’t agree with you. I’m not in agreement with those who ordered the massacres.

Choir Loft · Jul 19, 2018

David Kent said:
It was Jewish theology that God dismissed in Habbakuk, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Jesus also did in Matthew 23 and other places. The former resulted in the destruction of the former temple and the Babylonian captivity. The latter resulted in the destruction temple by Titus and Jews being killed sent into slaver and banned from the country. Are the Jews of today any better than their ancestors. Do they accept the Saviour? If not they are just like those in the scriptures.

Your post suggests a purely theological issue at the root of historic events in the Levant. I submit there's more to it. These are very important points to consider.

At issue in the ancient kingdoms of Israel & Judah was active sin and rebellion against God. Ezekiel bemoaned the loss of Judah from his place in Babylon. Inside the walls of Jerusalem Jeremiah tried to get his brethren to surrender to the Chaldeans who were besieging the city. At the time the Jews were hoping in divine deliverance, which was refused by God because of their sins.

It wasn't just a theological issue. The Jews actively denied God in their everyday lives and pursued sin in all its forms. God judged them for that.

In the time of Herod's temple, Roman occupation was a thorn in the neck of the Jewish population. They assumed Jesus was a liberator on the order of the Maccabees despite His frequent refusals to bring military assistance to bear.

It is thought by some that Jesus had a connection to the mysterious Parthian Empire, which had sufficient military resources to take Jerusalem from the Romans, but that Jesus refused to activate this alliance. There are only vague hints of this in the gospels. Some secular documents do suggest the possibility - or at least a common belief by Jews of Jesus' day that He knew powerful people. My point here is that the destruction of Herod's temple / second aliyah of Jews to Palestine wasn't strictly theological in nature. At the time the Jews were hoping in divine deliverance, which was refused by God because of their sins.

At the core of the argument regarding Replacement Theology is the anti-semitic attempt to separate Jews from Israel.

Initially formulated by German Bible scholar Julius Wellhausen and later popularized in America by evangelist Herbert Armstrong (World Church Tomorrow) the idea is based upon the Jewish Two House theology. Its rather ironic that a potent anti-semitic/anti-Jewish theology should be based in part upon a Jewish hypothesis as to the aftermath of the civil war inspired by Rehoboam.(1)

It should be remembered and taken to heart that God punished Israel for abandoning the faith as well as for raw licentious sin. He punished other nations for this too. America is not exempt from divine judgment.

America hopes for divine deliverance, which shall be refused by God because of our sins.

We would all do well to remember the words of Josephus who wrote about those ancient times and apply it to ourselves. The danger is very close. It is even upon us at this hour.

“…when you repent of what you’ve done, you will beseech God to have mercy upon you, and to grant you a quick deliverance from your kings;
but HE will not accept your prayers,
but will neglect you,
and permit you to suffer the punishment your evil conduct has deserved.”
- Josephus Antiquities vi.5

What can we learn from all this?

America cannot be saved. We are too far gone. Even secular experts agree we passed a point of no return years ago. It is possible, however, for God to hear those who seek Him personally and to hear personal prayers of repentance unto salvation.

Judgment is upon us.(2)

The time to repent is now.

Those that hold fast to Replacement Theology must by extension of logic assume that God judges America today for the same reasons He judged Israel in the past. Personally, I reject the theology but cannot deny that God is no longer blessing our nation. We are in serious trouble either way one looks at it.

The time to repent is now. What the nation cannot avoid may be discovered for individuals. Delay is foolish. Make peace with God now. Past prayers for salvation do not count(3).

The time to repent is now - for everyone.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(1) Some scholars suggest that Jesus' references to "saving the lost of Israel" may actually be aimed at the lost tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel/Samaria, not spiritually unregenerate gentiles. Jesus was kindly disposed to Samaria, which even His disciples found puzzling.

Replacement Theology also suggests the mysterious Stone of Scone justifies the assertion that the British crown is successor to the throne of David. Both Britain & the US are the supposed locations where many of the Lost Tribes found safe haven. Apart from glorifying two western empires, Replacement Theology may also place these nations in severe jeopardy with regard to required allegiance to God and subsequent judgment upon their empires.

(2) As of July 2018, America has suffered an average of over 1 billion dollars of catastrophic damage PER MONTH for this year. Disasters multiply and their frequency suggests something other than coincidence. Events of greater horror and loss lie in our future. It will not abate or stop until the full wrath of God has been expended upon us. Watch and learn, pilgrim.

(3)If a righteous person turns from their righteousness and does evil, they will die for it. - Ezekiel 33:18

Choir Loft · Jul 19, 2018

Al Masihi said:
Both of those cults and sects were heretical and secondly no one is saying the Church leaders who ordered those massacres were not in error in their decisions.

At the heart of every religious murder and every attempt at leadership to oppress their own brethren is the desire for power.

No consideration of the Kingdom of God has ever been apparent except as a thin excuse for physical brutality, intellectual violence and spiritual depravity.

Christendom, more than any other religion, is vastly guilty of excess in the pursuit of power.

Islam suffered a similar split centuries ago. The wound still festers, but has not resulted in religious wars of the death of millions of its own people as similar arguments have caused in Christendom.

The church has forgotten God and if there is a devil on earth he will sit upon its highest throne of power.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

Barney2.0 · Jul 19, 2018

Choir Loft said:
At the heart of every religious murder and every attempt at leadership to oppress their own brethren is the desire for power.

No consideration of the Kingdom of God has ever been apparent except as a thin excuse for physical brutality, intellectual violence and spiritual depravity.

Christendom, more than any other religion, is vastly guilty of excess in the pursuit of power.

Islam suffered a similar split centuries ago. The wound still festers, but has not resulted in religious wars of the death of millions of its own people as similar arguments have caused in Christendom.

The church has forgotten God and if there is a devil on earth he will sit upon its highest throne of power.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

Well then you really don’t know Islam, Islamic wars still go on, furthermore more Muslims have been killed by other Muslims then anyone else on Earth. There have been numerous fitnahs (Islamic religious civil wars) throughout Islamic history. It is not the Church who has forgotten God, but it is those who call themselves Christians who’ve forgotten God.

David Kent · Jul 19, 2018

Choir Loft said:
(1) Some scholars suggest that Jesus' references to "saving the lost of Israel" may actually be aimed at the lost tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel/Samaria, not spiritually unregenerate gentiles. Jesus was kindly disposed to Samaria, which even His disciples found puzzling.

What lost tribes? Are you a British Israelite?

n2thelight · Jul 20, 2018

Israel was not replaced by the Church,it has always been the Church

n2thelight · Jul 20, 2018

Choir Loft said:
The chosen, those predestined and chosen by God are the Jews - the natural branches attached to the root Jesus Christ. Any good Calvinist can cough up a dozen verses to support the idea that certain people were chosen of God before the foundation of the world. What they generally don't admit is that these chosen folks are Jews - through whom the world would be blessed.

Whom did the Jew's bless?

Genesis 35:11 "And God said unto him, "I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;"

Where are these nations?

When we study Genesis 48 we will see that each of his sons will become Patriarchs of their own tribes, which develop into nations and groupings of nations. This promise reaches far beyond what the church world today would have us believe; that the offspring of Jacob today is comprised in the tiny nation of Israel, with brother Judah, mixed with the Kenite population towering over them. Those who call themselves Jews, but are not, see Revelation 2:9, and 3:9, for the warning that Jesus told John to write to our end time generation.

The kings of England today are even crowned and anointed over the same pillar that Jacob anointed to God, to call an eternal remembrance to all those who sit on that throne, and the subjects that they rule over. [The people of republics are citizens, while people under a king or queen are subjects.] All royal thrones of the Christian nations are tied directly by blood to the throne of England, which is the direct linage to King David, Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham. It is no accident that the Queen of England is Elizabeth II, for her lineage dictates it.

God's word, and his house still exist today, and the mere fact that a King or Queen sits on the throne is the reminder to all His children that He does keep his word, even though we allow ourselves to get lazy in his word, and run to Kenites for its interpretation, His word is truth, honest and fixed. When it seems that God's word is wrong, it is the person questioning the word that is in error. That is why we must use the right tools in getting the correct meaning for that Word.

The first duty of any King or Queen is to be the protector of the Faith, and that faith is God's Word. That is why we have the King James Bible today. He made the order for this translation, whereby each subject to his throne could have their own copy within their homes, that their lives could be guided by its words. From the year 1611 A.D. it has continued to be the guidepost in most Christian homes, and governments.

There are two Houses.Judah and Israel,only Judah returned to form the nation state of Israel.They will not be joined back together until the return of Christ,so I ask again,where are the other nations?

David Kent · Jul 21, 2018

n2thelight said:
There are two Houses.Judah and Israel,only Judah returned to form the nation state of Israel.They will not be joined back together until the return of Christ,so I ask again,where are the other nations?

Some went to Judah before the Northern Kindom was exiled.Some returned with the Jews under Cyrus and some mixed with the Samaritans. At least one other tribe is mentioned in the New Testament.

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 26, 2018

Hank77 said:
Darby was a Dispensationalist, which is nothing at all like Replacement theology. In fact it's almost the exact opposite.

The only "replacement" I view in the NT/NC is the Priesthood........
[The word used for "translation" is also used for Enoch.]

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

Hebrews 7:12
For being translated<3346> the Priesthood,
out of necessity also, of Law a translation<3331> is becoming<1096>,

Jeremiah 32:32
‘because of all the evil of the children of Israel and the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke Me to anger—they, their kings, their princes, their priests, their prophets, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Malachi 2:
1 “And now, O priests, this command is for you. 2 If you will not listen, if you will not take it to heart to give honor to my name, says the Lord of hosts, then I will send the curse upon you and I will curse your blessings. Indeed, I have already cursed them, because you do not lay it to heart.
7 For the lips of a priest should guard knowledge, and peopled should seek instruction from his mouth, for he is the Messenger of the Lord of hosts. 8 But you have turned aside from the way. You have caused many to stumble by your instruction. You have corrupted the covenant of Levi, says the Lord of hosts, 9 and so I make you despised and abased before all the people, inasmuch as you do not keep my ways but show partiality in your instruction.”......

ESV)
Hebrews 7:
22 This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant.
23The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office,
24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever.
25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermostb those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

26 For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. 27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself.
28 For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever.............................

Melchizedek is a good study:

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/priest/RP24.htm
The Royal Priesthood MELCHIZEDEK

Genesis 14:
18 And Malkiy-Tsedeq, king of Shalem brought forth bread and wine and he a Priest of 'El-Most-High/'Elyown.
19 And he is blessing him and saying, "being blessed Abram of 'El-most-high/'elyown possessor of heavens and land 20 And being blessed 'El-most-high/'elyown, who awarded thy foes in thy hand". And he is giving to him a tenth of all.

Hebrews 7:1
For this the Malkiy-Tsedeq/melcisedek <3198>, King of Salem, Priest of the GOD of the most-high, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings, and did bless him. [Genesis 14:18]

One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about. The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION,
In Genesis, chapter fourteen, we have one of the most intriguing stories in the Bible, that of Abram's encounter with Melchizedek, king of Salem, and "the priest of the Most High God." In the Genesis story Melchizedek is a strange and mysterious figure. He flashes across the scene like a meteor. There is no heralding of his appearance, nor any mention of its results. He arrives out of the blue; there is no account of his family; there is nothing about his birth, his descent, his life, his work, or his death. He simply arrives.

.

LastSeven · Nov 26, 2018

Choir Loft said:
Chapter and verse please.

Where in the Bible does it say that the church has always been God's master plan? This is a doctrine of demons. The Bible neither expressly states nor implies such a thing.

"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons." - 1 Timothy 4:1

The master plan, if such a conjecture can be stated, is that those who surrender to Christ be saved. The Jew first, then the gentile.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. - Romans 1:16

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

To even suggest that God would ever need to go to plan B is a heresy in my opinion. You would have to say that God's plan was not perfect.

REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Amil

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