LDS believe that babies and little children are already without sin and part of the kingdom of heaven without baptism. Sin is willingly and knowingly turning away from God and cannot be done by a baby.
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LDS Mormonism --- The baptism of little children is an evil abomination!
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Yes I am aware that is an LDS belief. My point to @He is the way was that its not logical to use Matthew 19:14 as a proof text/reference for that belief without also applying the same standard to Matthew 5:3, its inconsistent.
Matthew 5:3
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:14
14 But Jesus said, Suffer the little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for to such belongeth the kingdom of heaven.
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My point is:
Basing a belief that children do not need baptism on Matthew 19:14 because it says 'for to such belongeth the kingdom of heaven' is very weak.
By the same reasoning, then 'the poor in spirit' do not require baptism either because 'theirs is the kingdom of heaven' Matthew 5:3.
My point to @He is the way in response to his post #103, is that specific scripture (Matthew 19:14) is a very weak proof text/argument to use as a basis for that belief.
Matthew 19:14
14 But Jesus said, Suffer the little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for to such belongeth the kingdom of heaven.
Then the same can be said of this scripture...
Matthew 5:3
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
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That verse is not the center point of the LDS belief in this subject. ..
If HITW wants to use it as auxiliary, he can, but that's not the center verses on the subject in the LDS pov.
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Ok.
Personally I find the infant vs believer's baptism discussion is one that cannot be settled by appealing to the Bible alone.
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Me too, perhaps we actually have something in common here, at least on how scripture is not the only basis for our beliefs, even if we come to very different conclusions.
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So had God deemed it necessary, there would be no argument one way or the other. I don't believe people who baptize infants are "in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for he hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell."
Joseph Smith made some hateful, judgmental statements.
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It doesn't matter who they are. My point is:
Basing a belief that children do not need baptism on Matthew 19:14 because it says 'for to such belongeth the kingdom of heaven' is very weak reasoning.
By the same reasoning, then 'the poor in spirit' do not require baptism either because 'theirs is the kingdom of heaven' Matthew 5:3.
My point is that specific scripture (Matthew 19:14) is a very weak proof text/argument to use as a basis for that belief.
Matthew 19:14
14 But Jesus said, Suffer the little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for to such belongeth the kingdom of heaven.
Then the same can be said of this scripture...
Matthew 5:3
Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
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"To be poor in spirit is to recognize your utter spiritual bankruptcy before God. It is understanding that you have absolutely nothing of worth to offer God. Being poor in spirit is admitting that, because of your sin, you are completely destitute spiritually and can do nothing to deliver yourself from your dire situation. Jesus is saying that, no matter your status in life, you must recognize your spiritual poverty before you can come to God in faith to receive the salvation He offers."
https://www.gotquestions.org/poor-in-spirit.html
But Jesus said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mark 2:17). In other words, the only people who will ever come to get what Jesus has to give are sick people, people who know that they are spiritually and morally and very often physically crippled...
Abraham — In dealing with the Lord about Sodom and Gomorrah, he said, “Behold, I have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes” (Genesis 18:27).
John Piper
https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/blessed-are-the-poor-in-spirit-who-mourn
https://www.gotquestions.org/poor-in-spirit.html
But Jesus said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners” (Mark 2:17). In other words, the only people who will ever come to get what Jesus has to give are sick people, people who know that they are spiritually and morally and very often physically crippled...
Abraham — In dealing with the Lord about Sodom and Gomorrah, he said, “Behold, I have taken upon myself to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes” (Genesis 18:27).
John Piper
https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/blessed-are-the-poor-in-spirit-who-mourn
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twin.spin
Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding
LDS beliefs that babies and little children are already without sin is clear open rebellion against what God revealed.
Psalm 53:1-3 \ Psalm 14:1-3
Psalm 51:5Psalm 58:3
Isaiah 64:6
Ecclesiastes 7:20
Romans 3:10-20
Romans 8:7
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God;
it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
Jesus confirmed all these by revealing "Flesh gives birth to flesh" John 3:6
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