The Bible

2 Timothy 3:16-17


16 "Every scripture inspired of God [is] also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.
17 That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work."

You are drawn to Christ by the Father through the Holy Spirit. You then usually join a Christian fellowship or church, and using the bible acquaint yourself with the history and traditions that brought you to this place. The bible itself contains spiritual knowledge only obtainable through the help of the indwelling Spirit. "Time in grade" (experience) is also important as many bible lessons and examples are better understood by experiencing similar events in your own life over time.

You can't denigrate the bible on the basis of posers. There are many people who misunderstand the bible. But the truth of the bible doesn't depend on it being believed. Therefore you are in the same boat as everyone. You are obligated to follow the teachings which accord with godliness through the bible and it is up to you how much work you put into that.

Some people don't work at it as others. Let me ask you. If someone were to come by and have apostolic understanding of the scriptures, how would he appear any differently than everyone else?

So know for certain that there are people who in fact understand the word of God as it should be understood. But as Paul said

Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. Only let us hold true to what we have attained. ~Philippians 3:15-16

So we are all in a PROCESS of coming to know understand this revelation of Yahshua. And we must continue to come together to share the different things which we have gained so that we can build each other up to the fullness of understanding you're talking about.

Some have most certainly processed more than others and you have begun this process. Continue processing by meditating on his word and the Lord, in his own time, will make it clear to you.

The Bible is the "written word" meaning it comes through humans and is interpreted by humans. Its as imperfect as we should expect it to be.

Jesus taught us to have a personal spiritual relationship with God. As you said, salvation is by faith and the responsibility that comes with it. There are some good lessons preserved in the OT.

Make a distinction between reading the Bible through versus studying the Bible. If you've already read the Bible through, maybe select one book and study it in-depth with study tools.

There are many translations. My experience has been that only a handful are used in churches. Fundamentalist use the KJV. Evangelicals use the NIV or ESV. Mainliners use the NRSV or RSV.

Knowledge of the Bible by itself (as great as that is) won't keep a person in faith. I know of someone who believes that St. Paul was basically a heretic. This person has read the Scriptures through many times over, probably in more than one translation.

These are good questions, ones which everyone need to grapple with.

1. Firstly, while the first Christians had access to some copies of the original gospels and letters that made it into the Bible in the late fourth/early fifth centuries, they also had access to "un-credible" writings, such as the "gospels" of Thomas and Judas. Every individual church (lower case "c") had their own canons based on what writings they had access to. It wasn't until the councils of the late 400s and early 500s A.D. that the canon for the universal Church was formalized, and it remains the same or mostly the same today (depending on which Church you find yourself in). At these councils, the Church accepted 73 books, including all of the Old Testament, the "Deuterocanon" (or "apocrypha"), and the 27 books of the New Testament that you'll find in your Bible. The "gospels" of Thomas, Judas, and the others were dismissed, based both on their "unique" content (to put it lightly), and the fact that their authorship couldn't be verified.

Now, because the printing press hadn't yet been invented, not everyone got a copy. Everything had to be handwritten- often by monks- so the Biblical writings were heavily protected. Often, only the clergy were allowed access to them- both because they were often the only literate church members, and because, if anyone should have access to the Scriptures, it should be those who spend their lives teaching on them. However, just because the laity couldn't read the Bible, doesn't mean that they couldn't listen to it. The clergy didn't hide the Scriptures from them- they read them to their flock.

Once the printing press came about, everyone could finally have a copy- but some translations are definitely better than others. As an example, the King James version will be preferable to a "Cotton Patch gospel" (look it up, it's ridiculous). The printing press had the dual effect of giving everyone an affordable copy of the Bible, and giving everyone access to those less reliable translations.

Anyone from before those times, if they are damned- aren't damned because they didn't have access to "modern technology" or because they weren't fully aware of what books are inspired and which aren't. They may not have had many Bibles, but they had a Church, with authority to compile the books and canonize them, and with authority to teach.

2. There are many translations, but they typically aren't so radically different that you'll come away with a different message than someone else unless the translator added something, took something away, or otherwise obscured the meaning. Translators are translating from something, aren't they? The earliest surviving manuscripts of the books of the Bible (which have been preserved often in Latin and Greek). Unless the translator has an agenda, you'll get roughly the same meaning from John 1 across all different translations.

3. I'll be in the minority here when I say that we aren't saved sola fide. However, if we were, we would still need some knowledge of who Jesus is and what He taught in order to have faith. The Bible is where most of our knowledge of Jesus comes from. I may have faith that someone existed even if little is written about them, but could I have saving faith in Jesus if I knew little besides His name? So, the Scriptures are critically important in our walk with Christ- let's only be careful not to deify them.

Spiritualized said:

Firstly, apologies if this is posted in the wrong section.

I was brought up Atheist but after a few events and 12 months of having big questions about life, I came to Christ in 2014 at age 24. My family and friend circles were and still are hard atheists. I'm the only person of faith. I have since managed to read the Bible (NIV) in full, and am now revisiting book by book to try and understand in more detail.

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Well, I also was an atheist at one time in my life. Granted, I grew up in a liberal Christian home and believed in God (most of my life), but I never knew that Jesus was God and that He was our Savior (When I was a kid). My Dad is a hardcore atheist and he has challenged me in regards to my faith. Needless to say that I was blessed to have the Word of God deeply rooted in my heart and life when he confronted me. I knew how to defend against certain flaws in the atheist's favor of Macro-Evolution (Darwinism) and I knew my Bible and knew how to explain common arguments against Christianity.

You said:

What I have wondered ever since day 1 is where the Bible stands in terms of significance / requirement when it comes to obtaining salvation?

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A person cannot be saved without the Bible in some form or another. If a person hears about the gospel and Jesus Christ it is from the Bible (Whether they hear that from a Christian neighbor, a preacher, a comic book tract in pictures only, etc.). Scripture says,

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." (Romans 10:17).

"But without faith it is impossible to please him..." (Hebrews 11:6).

23 "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
(1 Peter 1:23-25).

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:5)

Being born again of the Spirit happens when a believer hears the message of the gospel and they repent (ask for forgiveness of their sins) to Jesus. They are given a new heart with new desires by the Spirit after they accept and believe in Jesus as their Savior (Whereby they called out to Him for forgiveness for their sin). The gospel is believing that Christ died for your sins and that He was risen three days later on your behalf (See 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Being born again of water happens when a believer receives the Word of God (gospel message) into their heart for spiritual life and or salvation. Being born of water = the Word of God in this particular instance. In fact, we see elsewhere in Scripture that "water" is in reference to the Scriptures.

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
(Ephesians 5:25-27).

The Parable of the Sower is about receiving the Word of God into one's heart in order for one to be fruitful and to have understanding. Those who did not bring forth fruit and were choked by the Word (the Scriptures) fell away due to either riches (the cares of this life) and or persecution. These are believers in Christ who believe for a while. They are saved only by their belief (obedience) to God's Word. The unbeliever (the seed by the way side) did not receive God's Word into their heart and they had no understanding of God's Word (See Matthew 13:18-23 and Luke 8:11-15).

You said:

There are a few reasons of which I wonder and ask this question.

1) It is my understanding that from the first Christians, the next 1,500-1,650 or so years was spent with 90% of all believers not having read the Bible. Not only that, they were unable to read anyway. They were taught only what the church of the time preached to them and their understanding was limited. (I'm talking up to the protestant reformation). So, if the Bible is key, what happens to all those souls that lived for those 1,600 years or so before it was obtainable?

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I believe it is dangerous to put your faith in Man Made History. Men have proven to be liars over and over again (See Romans 3:4). Granted, this does not mean everything in history (recorded by men) is false; This just means that we cannot trust what is written in history like we can the Word of God. Based on my understanding of God and His Word, the Lord would not bring a human soul into this world throughout our history not having some portion of the Scriptures available to them (Whether it be given to them by word of mouth or with it being written down). Also, we do not need a whole Bible to be saved. The New Testament is the most important for the Christian life and His salvation. While the Old Testament has a lot of treasure and gemstones to help a Christian in his walk with the Lord, we are not Old Testament believers but we are New Testament believers. The word "Testament" means "Covenant." A covenant is kind of like a pact or an agreement. In the case with the Bible, the words "New Covenant" is defined as an agreement made between God and man (under Jesus Christ with His shed blood).

Jesus also says,
"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." (Luke 12:48).

When Jesus says, "whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required," in one way, He is saying that if you have a complete Bible (unlike some people today or in the past), then you are going to be held MORE accountable to His Word in such a way than say the person who does not have such access. This means that we are not off the hook in obeying God's Word just because a believer in another country or another believer in the past did not have a whole Bible available to them in their language.

Spiritualized said:

2) There are more Bible translations than I could ever remember without a large list. Further to that, there are then more interpretations than there are stars in the sky and sand grains on the beach combined. Each claiming that their interpretations are correct and it is they who have the deciphering Holy Spirit. From age to age, understandings on differing topics have occurred and in some cases, the stance completed changed. I have found you can visit 10 churches and come away with 10 interpretations or practices. So, if the Bible is key to our lives as Christians, how come God has made it so impossible to understand or verify? I sincerely believe not one person has the Bible interpretations remotely close to 100% correct. I am convinced I could read the book 100 times with the most informed scholars and we'd still be unsure and could only make informed guesses for many important things.

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There are many evidences that show that the Word of God is divine in origin.

http://lovebranch.blogspot.com/2017/02/evidences-for-word-of-god.html

In addition, we are taught by the Spirit and not in the wisdom of men.

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27).

How do we know we have the right Bible?
You do a fruits test.
The only Bible I have found to be accurate and divinely inspired is the KJV.
Granted, reading the KJV can be difficult because it was written in 1600's English.
So reading Modern Translations can be helpful to update the language that is in the KJV.

Here are three Biblical reasons to trust in a perfect Word of God for our day.

Spiritualized said:

3) If the Bible is more of a tool to aid our Christian walk, and salvation is achieved through faith alone and not dependant on knowing the Bible and following it without error, then how does everyone fit the Bible into their walk with God? (Just a general question for advice and tips) I have been reading most days but I find it reading for readings sake and I haven't taken much from it than I already had from the first time of reading. Any advice?

Or likewise, if the Bible is more than a tool to aid us, then how do we overcome the first two points? I just find the whole thing confusing.

Please note I am not trying to play down the importance or lack of, of the Bible and reading it, this is merely my thoughts and something I've questioned and wondered about for a few years now.

God bless you all!

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Most churches today believe that a person can sin on some level and still be saved (Which is immoral). It's why they promote Faith Alone (Which is an oxymoron). The real truth is that...

After We are Saved by God's Grace, God’s Works (Done Through Us) Are Also Required As a Part of the Salvation Process:

(Here are a List of Verses):


“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4).

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

"And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38).

”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

"...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62).

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).

“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).

“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22).

”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).

”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

”Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation [i.e. as the people of Israel did when they rebelled against him in the desert.”] (Hebrews 3:12-15) (Note: The explanation on verse 15 in brackets is taken from the Living Bible Translation (TLB)).

”Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)” (Hebrews 3:10-11).

”Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Hebrews 4:11).

“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

Paul condemned going back to the Old Testament Law of Moses (like circumcision, See Romans 3:1, and Galatians 5:2) and not the Moral Law (like: "Do not murder," "Do not steal," and "Do not covet," etc.). For Paul says to love your neighbor fulfills the law (See Romans 13:8-10). Paul says we are to walk in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter (Romans 7:6). This means we look to the commands given to us by Jesus Christ and His followers and we do not look to the pages of the Old Testament to obey God. Keeping certain commands in the New Testament does deal with eternal life. See Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15, Revelation 21:8, Revelation 22:14-15. If not, then we can be the most vile and wicked of people and say we are God's good people. But if such were the case, then how is that any different than our life as an unbeliever? There is no difference. God requires us to be good as a part of being within His Kingdom. Some believe that we will automatically have a change (regardless of our own free will) and that we will be good. But God does not force us to do anything in this life. We have free will to choose God in this life or to choose our own path (See Deuteronomy 30:19).

Anyways, I hope what I said here helps;
And may the Lord Jesus Christ (Who is God) bless you greatly today.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

Spiritualized said:

Firstly, apologies if this is posted in the wrong section.

I was brought up Atheist but after a few events and 12 months of having big questions about life, I came to Christ in 2014 at age 24. My family and friend circles were and still are hard atheists. I'm the only person of faith. I have since managed to read the Bible (NIV) in full, and am now revisiting book by book to try and understand in more detail.

What I have wondered ever since day 1 is where the Bible stands in terms of significance / requirement when it comes to obtaining salvation? There are a few reasons of which I wonder and ask this question.

1) It is my understanding that from the first Christians, the next 1,500-1,650 or so years was spent with 90% of all believers not having read the Bible. Not only that, they were unable to read anyway. They were taught only what the church of the time preached to them and their understanding was limited. (I'm talking up to the protestant reformation). So, if the Bible is key, what happens to all those souls that lived for those 1,600 years or so before it was obtainable?

2) There are more Bible translations than I could ever remember without a large list. Further to that, there are then more interpretations than there are stars in the sky and sand grains on the beach combined. Each claiming that their interpretations are correct and it is they who have the deciphering Holy Spirit. From age to age, understandings on differing topics have occurred and in some cases, the stance completed changed. I have found you can visit 10 churches and come away with 10 interpretations or practices. So, if the Bible is key to our lives as Christians, how come God has made it so impossible to understand or verify? I sincerely believe not one person has the Bible interpretations remotely close to 100% correct. I am convinced I could read the book 100 times with the most informed scholars and we'd still be unsure and could only make informed guesses for many important things.

3) If the Bible is more of a tool to aid our Christian walk, and salvation is achieved through faith alone and not dependant on knowing the Bible and following it without error, then how does everyone fit the Bible into their walk with God? (Just a general question for advice and tips) I have been reading most days but I find it reading for readings sake and I haven't taken much from it than I already had from the first time of reading. Any advice?

Or likewise, if the Bible is more than a tool to aid us, then how do we overcome the first two points? I just find the whole thing confusing.

Please note I am not trying to play down the importance or lack of, of the Bible and reading it, this is merely my thoughts and something I've questioned and wondered about for a few years now.

God bless you all!

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Hebrews 13:5 King James Version (KJV)

5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

I am sure God loves us and has a plan for those souls. He died for everyone.

If you want to know which translation/version of the bible is the right one for YOU to read, pray for guidance from God and he will direct your search.

Spiritualized said:

Firstly, apologies if this is posted in the wrong section.

I was brought up Atheist but after a few events and 12 months of having big questions about life, I came to Christ in 2014 at age 24. My family and friend circles were and still are hard atheists. I'm the only person of faith. I have since managed to read the Bible (NIV) in full, and am now revisiting book by book to try and understand in more detail.

What I have wondered ever since day 1 is where the Bible stands in terms of significance / requirement when it comes to obtaining salvation? There are a few reasons of which I wonder and ask this question.

1) It is my understanding that from the first Christians, the next 1,500-1,650 or so years was spent with 90% of all believers not having read the Bible. Not only that, they were unable to read anyway. They were taught only what the church of the time preached to them and their understanding was limited. (I'm talking up to the protestant reformation). So, if the Bible is key, what happens to all those souls that lived for those 1,600 years or so before it was obtainable?

2) There are more Bible translations than I could ever remember without a large list. Further to that, there are then more interpretations than there are stars in the sky and sand grains on the beach combined. Each claiming that their interpretations are correct and it is they who have the deciphering Holy Spirit. From age to age, understandings on differing topics have occurred and in some cases, the stance completed changed. I have found you can visit 10 churches and come away with 10 interpretations or practices. So, if the Bible is key to our lives as Christians, how come God has made it so impossible to understand or verify? I sincerely believe not one person has the Bible interpretations remotely close to 100% correct. I am convinced I could read the book 100 times with the most informed scholars and we'd still be unsure and could only make informed guesses for many important things.

3) If the Bible is more of a tool to aid our Christian walk, and salvation is achieved through faith alone and not dependant on knowing the Bible and following it without error, then how does everyone fit the Bible into their walk with God? (Just a general question for advice and tips) I have been reading most days but I find it reading for readings sake and I haven't taken much from it than I already had from the first time of reading. Any advice?

Or likewise, if the Bible is more than a tool to aid us, then how do we overcome the first two points? I just find the whole thing confusing.

Please note I am not trying to play down the importance or lack of, of the Bible and reading it, this is merely my thoughts and something I've questioned and wondered about for a few years now.

God bless you all!

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First, you said salvation is by faith alone (I disagree but that is a another study) Faith in what?
Faith in yourself, faith in mankind, faith government, or is it faith in God and Jesus Christ?
So if it is Faith in Jesus Christ, how did you come about getting that information about Jesus Christ?
If someone told you then where did they get their information? there are only a few ways you can get that information. 1. by Jesus Christ appearing before you and teaching you directly. 2. Form someone who has studied the Holy scriptures and taught you. 3. By reading the Word of God the Bible 4. Or you just made stuff up out of thin air. So which is it?

The fact is without the Word of God (today that is the Bible) you would know nothing about God, yes you could make things up but that would have no reality of truth to it. You can't be saved unless you have knowledge of God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Faith, Sin, The work of the Cross, Grace, Repentance, and many more things. The only way you can know these things is by the Word of God by either directly or indirectly. The Bible is God's written word, Jesus Christ is God's word in the flash, the Holy Spirit is the Word in spirit.

In the first century God's word was spoken through the Apostles by the Holy Spirit. As the Apostles began to die they wrote down the Word of God so that future generations could have access to the Word of God. By 100 A.D. the Church had all of the Old and New Testaments. Literacy in the First and second centuries was very High, it was not until the Dark Ages that literacy was almost nonexistent.

The Fact is God's people have always had access to God's Word either by Prophet, Apostle, or written Word.

As for translations, the only true version of the Bible without error is the Hebrew for the Old Testament and the Greek for the New Testament. That is why it is important to look up difficult passages of the Bible in the original languages with a lexicon.

Colter said:

The Bible is the "written word" meaning it comes through humans and is interpreted by humans. Its as imperfect as we should expect it to be.

Jesus taught us to have a personal spiritual relationship with God. As you said, salvation is by faith and the responsibility that comes with it. There are some good lessons preserved in the OT.

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Wrong! The Bible is God's perfect Word given by a perfect God, to an imperfect Humanity through a perfect Holy Spirit. The only imperfection in the process is man.

TuxAme said:

but could I have saving faith in Jesus if I knew little besides His name? So, the Scriptures are critically important in our walk with Christ- let's only be careful not to deify them.

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Really How could you possibly be saved with knowing almost nothing about Jesus Christ other than his name?

Thedictator said:

Wrong! The Bible is God's perfect Word given by a perfect God, to an imperfect Humanity through a perfect Holy Spirit. The only imperfection in the process is man.

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The holy spirit doesn't write books, finite men with various agendas inspired by religious experience write their thoughts for various reasons.

If God wrote a perfect book it wouldn't contain so many errors. But it is tempting to make the Bible a God.

Colter said:

The holy spirit doesn't write books, finite men with various agendas inspired by religious experience write their thoughts for various reasons.

If God wrote a perfect book it wouldn't contain so many errors. But it is tempting to make the Bible a God.

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Just how do you know what the Holy Spirit does and does not do? God true believers by way of the Holy Spirit understand that the Bible is God's Holy word. One day all will stand before God and be judged for the careless words, blasphemy and false accusations against his word. They will find a place in the lake of fire reserved for them.

Spiritualized said:

Firstly, apologies if this is posted in the wrong section.

I was brought up Atheist but after a few events and 12 months of having big questions about life, I came to Christ in 2014 at age 24. My family and friend circles were and still are hard atheists. I'm the only person of faith.

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Also I'm glad that you became a Christian, God's Bless you life as you live a new one.

Spiritualized said:

Firstly, apologies if this is posted in the wrong section.

I was brought up Atheist but after a few events and 12 months of having big questions about life, I came to Christ in 2014 at age 24. My family and friend circles were and still are hard atheists. I'm the only person of faith. I have since managed to read the Bible (NIV) in full, and am now revisiting book by book to try and understand in more detail.

What I have wondered ever since day 1 is where the Bible stands in terms of significance / requirement when it comes to obtaining salvation? There are a few reasons of which I wonder and ask this question.

1) It is my understanding that from the first Christians, the next 1,500-1,650 or so years was spent with 90% of all believers not having read the Bible. Not only that, they were unable to read anyway. They were taught only what the church of the time preached to them and their understanding was limited. (I'm talking up to the protestant reformation). So, if the Bible is key, what happens to all those souls that lived for those 1,600 years or so before it was obtainable?

2) There are more Bible translations than I could ever remember without a large list. Further to that, there are then more interpretations than there are stars in the sky and sand grains on the beach combined. Each claiming that their interpretations are correct and it is they who have the deciphering Holy Spirit. From age to age, understandings on differing topics have occurred and in some cases, the stance completed changed. I have found you can visit 10 churches and come away with 10 interpretations or practices. So, if the Bible is key to our lives as Christians, how come God has made it so impossible to understand or verify? I sincerely believe not one person has the Bible interpretations remotely close to 100% correct. I am convinced I could read the book 100 times with the most informed scholars and we'd still be unsure and could only make informed guesses for many important things.

3) If the Bible is more of a tool to aid our Christian walk, and salvation is achieved through faith alone and not dependant on knowing the Bible and following it without error, then how does everyone fit the Bible into their walk with God? (Just a general question for advice and tips) I have been reading most days but I find it reading for readings sake and I haven't taken much from it than I already had from the first time of reading. Any advice?

Or likewise, if the Bible is more than a tool to aid us, then how do we overcome the first two points? I just find the whole thing confusing.

Please note I am not trying to play down the importance or lack of, of the Bible and reading it, this is merely my thoughts and something I've questioned and wondered about for a few years now.

God bless you all!

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Good day. Best answer is found in Romans 10 specifically verse 17:

Romans 10: NASB

14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”

16However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Interesting Theory...

The Bible is our instruction book plus much more.

Matthew 4:4
The tempter came to Him and said, “If You are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.” 4But Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

You need to be well read in the bible.

The Book of the Law was lost in the latter days of the Kings. It gives some insight that no-one had a copy or considered it worth preserving. This is what King Josiah had to say when he found it

2 KINGS 22
Go and inquire of the Lord for me and for the people and for all Judah about what is written in this book that has been found. Great is the Lord’s anger that burns against us because those who have gone before us have not obeyed the words of this book; they have not acted in accordance with all that is written there concerning us.”

Not valuing reading the book is one sign of spiritual decay, spiritual ignorance and worse.

Spiritualized said:

Please note I am not trying to play down the importance or lack of, of the Bible and reading it, this is merely my thoughts and something I've questioned and wondered about for a few years now. God bless you all!

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God bless you, and sorry this is largely a copy and paste response, but I thought it might be helpful.

[THE BIBLE] UNIQUE IN ITS SURVIVAL

Survival through time

Being written on material that perishes, having to be copied and recopied for hundreds of years before the invention of the printing press, did not diminish its style, correctness nor existence. The Bible, compared with other ancient writings, has more manuscript evidence than any 10 pieces of classical literature combined.

John Warwick Montgomery says that "to be skeptical of the resultant text of the New Testament books is to allow all of classical antiquity to slip into obscurity, for no documents of the ancient period are as well attested bibliographically as the New Testament".

Bernard Ramm speaks of the accuracy and number of biblical manuscripts:

"Jews preserved it as no other manuscript has ever been preserved. With their massora (parva, magna, and finalis) they kept tabs on every letter, syllable, word and paragraph. They had special classes of men within their culture whose sole duty was to preserve and transmit these documents with practically perfect fidelity - scribes, lawyers, massoretes. Who ever counted the letters and syllables and words of Plato or Aristotle? Cicero of Seneca?"

John Lea in The Greatest Book in the World compared the Bible with Shakespeare's writings:

"In an article in the North American Review, a writer made some interesting comparisons between the writings of Shakespeare and the Scriptures, which show that much greater care must have been bestowed upon the biblical manuscripts than upon other writings, even when there was so much more opportunity of preserving the correct text by means of printed copies than when all the copies had to be made by hand. He said:

"It seems strange that the text of Shakespeare, which has been in existence less than two hundred and eight years, should be far more uncertain and corrupt than that of the New Testament, now over eighteen centuries old, during nearly fifteen of which it existed only in manuscript...With perhaps a dozen or twenty exceptions, the text of every verse in the New Testament may be said to be so far settled by general consent of scholars, that any dispute as to its readings must relate rather to the interpretation of the words than to any doubts respecting the words themselves. But in every one of Shakespeare's thirty-seven plays there are probably a hundred readings still in dispute, a large portion of which materially affects the meaning of the passages in which they occur".

Survival through persecution

The Bible has withstood vicious attacks of its enemies as no other book. Many have tried to burn it, ban it and "outlaw it from the days of Roman emperors to present-day Communist-dominated countries".

Sidney Collett in All About the Bible says, "Voltaire, the noted French infidel who died in 1778, said that in one hundred years from his time Christianity would be swept from existence and passed into history. But what has happened? Voltaire has passed into history, while the circulation of the Bible continues to increase in almost all parts of the world, carrying blessing wherever it goes. For example, the English Cathedral in Zanzibar is built on the site of the Old Slave Market, and the Communion Table stands on the very spot where the whipping-post once stood! The world abounds with such instances...As one has truly said, 'We might as well put our shoulder to the burning wheel of the sun, and try to stop it on its flaming course, as attempt to stop the circulation of the Bible.'

Concerning the boast of Voltaire on the extinction of Christianity and the Bible in 100 years, Geisler and Nix point out that "only fifty years after his death the Geneva Bible Society used his press and house to produce stacks of Bibles".

In AD 303, Diocletian issued an edict (Cambridge History of the Bible, Cambridge University Press, 1963) to stop Christians from worshipping and to destroy their Scriptures: "...an imperial letter was everywhere promulgated, ordering the razing of the churches to the ground and the destruction by fire of the Scriptures, and proclaiming that those who held high positions would lost all civil rights, while those in households, if they persisted in their profession of Christianity, would be deprived of their liberty".

The historic irony of the above edict to destroy the Bible is that Eusebius records the edict given 25 years later by Constantine, the emperor following Diocletian, that 50 copies of the Scriptures should be prepared at the expense of the government.

The Bible is unique in its survival. This does not prove the Bible is the Word of GOD. But it does prove it stands alone among books. Anyone seeking truth ought to consider a book that has the above unique qualifications.

Survival through criticism

H. L. Hastings, cited by John W. Lea, has forcibly illustrated the unique way the Bible has withstood the attacks of infidelity and skepticism:

"Infidels for eighteen hundred years have been refuting and overthrowing this book, and yet it stands today as solid as a rock. Its circulation increases, and it is more loved and cherished and read today than ever before. Infidels, with all their assaults, make about as much impression on this book as a man with a tack hammer would on the Pyramids of Egypt. When the French monarch proposed the persecution of the Christians in his dominion, an old statesman and warrior said to him, 'Sire, the Church of GOD is an anvil that has worn out many hammers'. So the hammers of infidels have been pecking away at this book for ages, but the hammers are worn out, and the anvil still endures. If this book had not been the book of GOD, men would have destroyed it long ago. Emperors and popes, kings and priests, princes and rulers have all tried their hand at it; they die and the book still lives".

Bernard Ramm adds: "A thousand times over, the death knell of the Bible has been sounded, the funeral procession formed, the inscription cut on the tombstone, and committal read. But somehow the corpse never stays put.

"No other book has been so chopped, knived, sifted, scrutinized, and vilified. What book on philosophy or religion or psychology or belles lettres of classical or modern times has been subject to such a mass attack as the Bible? with such venom and skepticism? with such thoroughness and erudition? upon every chapter, line and tenet?

"The Bible is still loved by millions, read by millions, and studied by millions".

The phrase used to be "the assured results of higher criticism", but now the higher critics are falling by the wayside. Take, for example, the "Documentary Hypothesis". One of the reasons for its development, apart from the different names used for GOD in Genesis, was that the Pentateuch could not have been written by Moses because the "assured results of higher criticism" have proved that writing was not in existence at the time of Moses or, if it was in existence at that time, it was used sparingly. Therefore, it is obvious that it had to be of later authorship. The minds of the critics went to work: J, E, P, D writers put it all together They went as far as to divide one verse into three authorships. They built great structures of criticisms. For an in-depth analysis of the Documentary Hypothesis see More Evidence That Demands a Verdict (Campus Crusade for Christ, 1975)

But then, some fellows discovered the "black stele". It had wedge-shaped characters on it and contained the detailed laws of Hammurabi. Was it post-Moses? No! It was pre-Mosaic; not only that, but it preceded Moses' writings by at least three centuries. Amazingly, it antedated Moses, who was supposed to be a primitive man without an alphabet.

What an irony of history! The "Documentary Hypothesis" is still taught, yet much of its original basis ("the assured results of higher criticism") has been eradicated and shown to be false. The "assured results of higher criticism" said there were no Hittites at the time of Abraham, for there were no other records of them apart from the Old Testament. They must be myth. Well, wrong again. As the result of archaeology, there are now hundreds of references overlapping more than 1,200 years of Hittite civilization. For further details on the Hittites, see the author's book More Evidence That Demands a Verdict, pp. 309-311.

Earl Radmacher, president of Western Conservative Baptist Seminary, quoting Nelson Glueck (pronounced Glek), former president of the Jewish Theological Seminary in the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati and one of the three greatest archaeologists, says: "I listened to him [Glueck] when he was at Temple Emmanuel in Dallas, and he got rather red in the face and said, 'I've been accused of teaching the verbal, plenary inspiration of the Scripture. I want it to be understood that I have never taught this. All I have ever said is that in all of my archaeological investigation I have never found one artifact of antiquity that contradicts any statement of the Word of GOD'.

Robert Dick Wilson, a man who was fluent in more than 45 languages and dialects, concluded after a lifetime of study in the Old Testament:

"I may add that the result of my forty-five years of study of the Bible has led me all the time to a firmer faith that in the Old Testament we have a true historical account of the history of the Israelite people".

The Bible is unique in facing its critics. There is no book in all of literature like it. A person looking for truth would certainly consider a book that has the above qualifications." Josh McDowell, Evidence That Demand a Verdict, Chapter 1 The Uniqueness of the Bible

Thedictator said:

Just how do you know what the Holy Spirit does and does not do? God true believers by way of the Holy Spirit understand that the Bible is God's Holy word. One day all will stand before God and be judged for the careless words, blasphemy and false accusations against his word. They will find a place in the lake of fire reserved for them.

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Because God never taught that the Holy spirit writes books. The Old Testament books were written by the kind of people who killed Jesus. They exaggerated their history and elevated themselves above all others in the region like Lucifer elevated himself.