The sin of Israel

BABerean2

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Israel is promised a land , church is never promised anything we are taken out of this world . There are multiple others verses like
Romans 11:1

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.


Paul was member of the church but was Israelite from tribe of Benjamin also which tells us that these two are separate , moreover God is not done with Israel .

In Romans 11:1 Paul did not mention the word "Church".
He said he was an Israelite, even after his conversion.
The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of both Israelite and Gentile branches, grafted together into one tree.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts of the Apostles 2:36. On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ. They did not stop being Israelites on that day.
When the Church began almost all of its members were Israelites. The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, your Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart.


.
 
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Chinchilla

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In Romans 11:1 Paul did not mention the word "Church".
He said he was an Israelite, even after his conversion.
The Olive Tree of Romans 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of both Israelite and Gentile branches, grafted together into one tree.

On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts of the Apostles 2:36. On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ. They did not stop being Israelites on that day.
When the Church began almost all of its members were Israelites. The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, your Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart.


.

You still failed to explain why Jesus did not return since we acknowledged the offence that he was the Messiah if we (church) are Israel.
 
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BABerean2

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You still failed to explain why Jesus did not return since we acknowledged the offence that he was the Messiah if we (church) are Israel.

I cannot tell what you are talking about above, without some scripture to base it on.


Jesus Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel.

He is the seed of the woman from Genesis 3:15.
He is Abraham's seed through which all the nations would be blessed in Genesis 12:3.
He is the "suffering servant" in Isaiah chapter 53.
He is the one who would fulfill the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
He is the Messiah whose timeline is found in Daniel chapter 9.
His is the most important genealogy found in the Bible in Matthew 1:1, which is confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16.


On the road to Emmaus Christ said the whole Old Testament is about Him.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


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Chinchilla

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I cannot tell what you are talking about above, without some scripture to base it on.


Jesus Christ is the ultimate fulfillment of Israel.

He is the seed of the woman from Genesis 3:15.
He is Abraham's seed through which all the nations would be blessed in Genesis 12:3.
He is the "suffering servant" in Isaiah chapter 53.
He is the one who would fulfill the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
He is the Messiah whose timeline is found in Daniel chapter 9.
His is the most important genealogy found in the Bible in Matthew 1:1, which is confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16.


On the road to Emmaus Christ said the whole Old Testament is about Him.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.


.

Glad you quoted Luke 24:25 , now tell me why Jesus is not sitting on throne of David as angel prophecy to Mary .
 
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Traveling teacher

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Jesus said you will not see me again untill you say
Baruch ha ba bachem Adonia
matthew 23:39
blessed is he who comes in the name of the lord verse

Jesus told the Jews He would not return until they acknowledged him as Messiah

from other scriptures this verse means a remant of Israel must repent and turn to Jesus
before He returns
 
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BABerean2

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Glad you quoted Luke 24:25 , now tell me why Jesus is not sitting on throne of David as angel prophecy to Mary .

Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

God has already made Jesus both ruler and Messiah.

He will be seated at the Father's right hand, until His foes are made His footstool.

.
 
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Chinchilla

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Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

God has already made Jesus both ruler and Messiah.

He will be seated at the Father's right hand, until His foes are made His footstool.

.

David's throne is not in heaven tho why you quote that ?
 
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BABerean2

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David's throne is not in heaven tho why you quote that ?

The woman at the well agrees with you.
You must have missed the part where Christ corrected her.



Joh 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



.
 
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Chinchilla

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The woman at the well agrees with you.
You must have missed the part where Christ corrected her.



Joh 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

Joh 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.



.

Has nothing to do with throne of David which is physical object .
 
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BABerean2

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Has nothing to do with throne of David which is physical object .


2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Christ's throne is as real as anything you have ever seen.
However, it will not be on this rotten, sin-cursed world.

Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth, and I am looking for the same thing, on the Day of the Lord when He Comes as a thief.

Christ will not be sitting on a throne built by men.
It will come from heaven.

.
 
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Chinchilla

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2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Christ's throne is as real as anything you have ever seen.
However, it will not be on this rotten, sin-cursed world.

Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth, and I am looking for the same thing, on the Day of the Lord when He Comes as a thief.

Christ will not be sitting on a throne built by men.
It will come from heaven.

.

I'm pre-millenial so we could debate for like few years with these 400 something not fulfilled prophecies but that's not really the topic of this post . I also look for new heaven and earth but if you deny the 1000 year kingdom why are we called kings and priests ? Kings over what ? And why Jesus told us in parables that he gave thier servants 10/5 city to rule over for thier faithfull work...

Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
 
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shilohsfoal

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2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Christ's throne is as real as anything you have ever seen.
However, it will not be on this rotten, sin-cursed world.

Peter was looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth, and I am looking for the same thing, on the Day of the Lord when He Comes as a thief.

Christ will not be sitting on a throne built by men.
It will come from heaven.

.

The new heavens and new earth doesn't appear till 1000 years after armegeddon.lol


http://biblehub.com/revelation/21-1.htm


That is 1000 years after the first resurretion of the saints who die during the tribulation.So what you are looking for takes place after the second resurection.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-13.htm
 
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BABerean2

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The new heavens and new earth doesn't appear till 1000 years after armegeddon.lol


http://biblehub.com/revelation/21-1.htm


That is 1000 years after the first resurretion of the saints who die during the tribulation.So what you are looking for takes place after the second resurection.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/20-13.htm

You are attempting to use the symbolic language of Revelation chapters 20 and 21 to define the whole New Testament.
You are also assuming that the Book of Revelation is in chronological order.

Christ returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
The judgment of the dead occurs right after.
See Revelation 11:15, Revelation 11:18, and John 5:27-30.


Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and He also returns in chapter 19.
Therefore, we know the book is not in chronological order.



Peter's words about "the day of the Lord" coming as a "thief in the night" in 2 Peter 3:10, are connected to 1 Thessalonians 5:1, and Revelation 16:15-16.
Ignore, or redefine what Peter said and you will always be wrong.


.
 
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shilohsfoal

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You are attempting to use the symbolic language of Revelation chapters 20 and 21 to define the whole New Testament.
You are also assuming that the Book of Revelation is in chronological order.

Christ returns at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
The judgment of the dead occurs right after.
See Revelation 11:15, Revelation 11:18, and John 5:27-30.


Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16, and He also returns in chapter 19.
Therefore, we know the book is not in chronological order.



Peter's words about "the day of the Lord" coming as a "thief in the night" in 2 Peter 3:10, are connected to 1 Thessalonians 5:1, and Revelation 16:15-16.
Ignore, or redefine what Peter said and you will always be wrong.


.

According to revelation,there are two bodily resurrections. The first being the resurection of those saints who die during the tribulation.

The second resurrection takes place 1000 years after and consists of the rest of the dead.
Do you agree with this revelation or do you deny it?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The sin of Israel

There is also the sin of Judah:

Jeremiah 17
1
The sin of Judah is written with an iron stylus, engraved with a diamond point
on the tablet of their hearts and on the horns of their altars.
2
Even their children remember their altars and Asherah poles, by the green trees, on the high hills.
3
O My mountain in the countryside,[Reve 8:8?]
I will give over your wealth
and all your treasures as plunder,
because of the sin of your high places, in all your borders.
4
And you yourself will relinquish the inheritance that I gave you.
I will enslave you to your enemies in a land you do not know,
for you have kindled My anger; it will burn forever.

Micah 3:12
Therefore, because of you, Zion will be plowed like a field, Jerusalem will become a heap of rubble, and the temple mount a wooded ridge.[Revelation 14:8]

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

*snip*

The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins.................


In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely leveled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground.


Jeremiah 51:8
Babylon has suddenly fallen and been destroyed. Wail for her! Take balm for her pain;
Perhaps she may be healed.

Reve 14:8
And another Messenger, second-one follows saying "She falls, She falls, Babylon the Great,
the out of the wine of the fury of the fornication of her she has given to drink all the nations".

Has anyone checked this thread out?

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...ts-messengers-and-7-shofars-trumpets.8071378/
Joshua 6 [7 Priests and 7 trumpets/shofars] and Revelation [7 Messengers with 7 trumpets]
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Im just wondering how the people on this board who claim to be israel can explain this.
There are also people on,this board who say only judah is in the land of Israel and that Israel has not returned.But God calls them both Israel and judah as we can read.
Judah consists of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and the priestly tribe of Levi.

Genesis 49:1
And Jacob/Israel called his sons and said, "Gather together! that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days: 2 "Gather together! and hear, you sons of Jacob, And listen to Israel your father.

Levi was 3rd born [Gen 49:5], Judah was 4th born [Gen 49:8] Benjamin was 12th and last born.

All 3 are mentioned in Revelation.

In Revelation the order is changed.
Where the Lion tribe of Judah is now 1st, Levi is now 8th, and Benjamin is still last,[ but far from least. [Yes, I know the tribes of Dan and half tribe of Ephraim are missing]
Some years back, someone suggested the order of the Tribes in Revelation formed a prayer:

1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun = "a Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"

This is interesting.

Benjamin has just a small slice of land adjoining Judah on the north.
I would assume the priestly tribe of Levi resides in Jerusalem of Judea?, [tho there is no longer Temple or Sanctuary to serve in since 70ad]

benjamite_lands.jpg
 
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BABerean2

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According to revelation,there are two bodily resurrections. The first being the resurection of those saints who die during the tribulation.

The second resurrection takes place 1000 years after and consists of the rest of the dead.
Do you agree with this revelation or do you deny it?

In John 5:27-30 Christ reveals the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.
The timing of that event occurs in Revelation 11:18, with reward for some and destruction for others.
This agrees with 2 Timothy 4:1, which says Christ judges both the living and the dead at His return.
The judgment of the living is described in Matthew 25:31-46.

Christ returns in Revelation 6:12-17, with those hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
They would not be hiding unless the Lamb were present at this time.
The signs in the sun, moon, and stars in Revelation 6 are the same as those found in the Olivet Discourse, at the Second Coming of Christ.

He returns at the 7th trumpet and the time of the judgment of the dead at the end of Revelation chapter 11.

He returns in the "harvest" of chapter 14.
See the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew chapter 13.

He returns "as a thief" at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16.

He returns in chapter 19.

Therefore, the Book of Revelation cannot be in the chronological order required to make your doctrine work.

.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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*snip*
Therefore, the Book of Revelation cannot be in the chronological order required to make your doctrine work.ld
.
Yeah, God wouldn't make it that simple...........

Job 38:36
Who has put wisdom in the mind?
Or who has given understanding to the heart?

Gotta get a calculator:

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...emblies-churches.8064465/page-2#post-72854874

Revelation 2:17
The one having an ear let him hear! what the Spirit is saying to the outcalleds. To the one conquering, I shall be giving to him of the manna, of the having been hidden. And I shall be giving him a counter/yhfon <5586>,
and on the counter/yhfon <5586> a new name having been written, which no one has seen except the one obtaining.

Revelation 13:18
Here the Wisdom is, the one having Mind let him calculate/yhfisatw <5585> (5657) the number of the beast, for of man it is, and the number of it six hundred sixty six.
Revelation 17:9
“Here is the mind which has wisdom:
The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.
 
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shilohsfoal

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In John 5:27-30 Christ reveals the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead.
The timing of that event occurs in Revelation 11:18, with reward for some and destruction for others.
This agrees with 2 Timothy 4:1, which says Christ judges both the living and the dead at His return.
The judgment of the living is described in Matthew 25:31-46.

Christ returns in Revelation 6:12-17, with those hiding from the wrath of the Lamb.
They would not be hiding unless the Lamb were present at this time.
The signs in the sun, moon, and stars in Revelation 6 are the same as those found in the Olivet Discourse, at the Second Coming of Christ.

He returns at the 7th trumpet and the time of the judgment of the dead at the end of Revelation chapter 11.

He returns in the "harvest" of chapter 14.
See the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew chapter 13.

He returns "as a thief" at Armageddon in Revelation 16:15-16.

He returns in chapter 19.

Therefore, the Book of Revelation cannot be in the chronological order required to make your doctrine work.

.

So you disagree with revelation that there are two bodily resurrections 1000 years apart?
 
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BABerean2

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So you disagree with revelation that there are two bodily resurrections 1000 years apart?

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

So do you disagree with the time of the judgment of the dead, with reward for some and destruction for others, after the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible?

And do you disagree with Christ's words about the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead in John 5:27-30?


.
 
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