What if a born again Christian repents but willfully keeps on sinning?
- Thread starter LittleLambofJesus
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~Anastasia~
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One must at least desire/intend to abandon sin.
There are addictions - people can struggle mightily against them, but at a point of repentance, they must WANT or HOPE or plan to TRY not to fall again, or it isn't repentance. Not only addictions though, but we can have many besetting sins. We should be quickly cured of gross sins. but there are nuances of pride that are very difficult to eradicate, or who among us can say that we love God with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind ... or do we fail in that, even just a little - which is sin.
We aren't "saved" by being perfectly free from sin. We cannot expect to be free from the smallest sins - which many won't even recognize AS sin (I'm not talking about lying, stealing, hurting others intentionally ... but a quick flash of thought that it was your turn next in line when someone rudely pushes past you - that reaction has its root in pride).
But someone who says "I repent" while they are having an extra-marital affair, but has every full intention of carrying on with their relationship the next day, the day after, and continually - is not repenting.
The intent of the heart, the idea that we at least agree with God that it IS sin, and the desire to be free of it ... those are the hallmarks of repentance. But this normally does mean stopping the sin, if we are talking about overt or gross sins. But if we are talking about that tiny thing that makes us feel irritated when someone cuts us off in traffic - things like that are difficult to tame. As are addictions for some people.
There are addictions - people can struggle mightily against them, but at a point of repentance, they must WANT or HOPE or plan to TRY not to fall again, or it isn't repentance. Not only addictions though, but we can have many besetting sins. We should be quickly cured of gross sins. but there are nuances of pride that are very difficult to eradicate, or who among us can say that we love God with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind ... or do we fail in that, even just a little - which is sin.
We aren't "saved" by being perfectly free from sin. We cannot expect to be free from the smallest sins - which many won't even recognize AS sin (I'm not talking about lying, stealing, hurting others intentionally ... but a quick flash of thought that it was your turn next in line when someone rudely pushes past you - that reaction has its root in pride).
But someone who says "I repent" while they are having an extra-marital affair, but has every full intention of carrying on with their relationship the next day, the day after, and continually - is not repenting.
The intent of the heart, the idea that we at least agree with God that it IS sin, and the desire to be free of it ... those are the hallmarks of repentance. But this normally does mean stopping the sin, if we are talking about overt or gross sins. But if we are talking about that tiny thing that makes us feel irritated when someone cuts us off in traffic - things like that are difficult to tame. As are addictions for some people.
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9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. - Matthew 6
10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. - Matthew 6
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The key here is 'willful sin', to be truly born again makes that impossible. We are carried away by physical and emotional, even spiritual forces that are sometimes beyond control, that much is obvious. To cause another believer to sin is a grievous sin and to turn another believer back from sin covers a lot of your own personal offenses. Frankly, if you are willfully sinning there is good reason to believe your not in the faith, I see no way around that. All sin is against God and to sin willfully is a level of animosity to the things of God, and his person, unthinkable for the believer.
If you mean sin on purpose, no, that's not a path to perdition. But by willful sin if you mean your in constant opposition to the things of God without remorse that's something else entirely.
I'm not entirely sure the OP was well thought through, as presented I would say, willful sin is never going to the something the born again believer is subject to. Unless the new nature is somehow quenched and destroyed it's just not possible.
If you mean sin on purpose, no, that's not a path to perdition. But by willful sin if you mean your in constant opposition to the things of God without remorse that's something else entirely.
I'm not entirely sure the OP was well thought through, as presented I would say, willful sin is never going to the something the born again believer is subject to. Unless the new nature is somehow quenched and destroyed it's just not possible.
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That sounds plausible. The heathens in Nineveh repented upon the preaching of Jonah, which appears to be a 1 time thing.
STRONGS NT 3340: μετανοέω
μετανοέω, μετάνω; future μετανοήσω; 1 aorist μετενόησα; from (Antiphon), Xenophon down; the Sept. several times for נִחַם; to change one's mind, i. e. to repent (to feel sorry that one has done this or that, Jonah 3:9), of having offended someone, Luke 17:3f; with ἐπί τίνι added (the dative of the wrong, Hebrew עַל, Amos 7:3; Joel 2:13; Jonah 3:10; Jonah 4:2),
of (on account of) something (so Latinme paenitet alicujus rei), 2 Corinthians 12:21; used especially of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent; on obtaining God's pardon; to repent (Latinpaenitentiam agere): μετανοῶ ἐν σάκκῳ καί σποδῷ, clothed in sackcloth and besprinkled with ashes, Matthew 11:21;
Matt 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it:
because they repented/metenohsan<3340> at the preaching of Jonas
and behold! a greater than Jonas is here.
Luke 11:32
The men of Nineveh shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented/metenohsan<3340>at the preaching of Jonas;
and behold! a greater than Jonas is here.
Those in Revel 16 did not repent upon the preaching of Jesus and I would have to assume these are believers in GOD but not in Jesus [such as Jews and Muslims?] Just kicking that out there.
Revelation 16:11
And they blaspheme the GOD of the heaven out of the miseries of them, and out of the sores of them.
And not they repent/metenohsan <3340> (5656) out of the works of them.
........for they repented at the preaching of Jonas, and behold a greater than Jonas is here: what in this case will aggravate the condemnation of the Jews in the day of judgment is, that these men were Heathens, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, and were not used to have prophets sent to them; and yet as soon as Jonas, a mere man, came to them, and preached but one sermon among them, they repented of their sins, and turned from them;
whereas the Jews, who had a better notion of religion, and who, though they had the Son of God himself among them, and preached to them, and that many sermons, and whose ministry was confirmed by miracles, and afterwards his apostles for a course of years, had yet remained impenitent and unbelieving;
.....Because they repented at the preaching of Jonas and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. Jonas was a stranger to them, he wrought no miracles amongst them to confirm that he was sent of God, he only came and cried, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be destroyed;
yet they repented, if not truly and sincerely, yet in appearance; they showed themselves to be affected with what Jonah said, his words made some impressions upon them, as that the king arose from his throne, laid his robe from him, covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes, called a fast, as Jonah 3:5-8.
But, saith our Saviour, I am greater than Jonah: I was long since prophesied of, and foretold to this people, to come; I am come; I have preached amongst them, and not only preached, but wrought many wonderful works amongst them, yet they are not so much affected as to show the least signs of repentance.
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Grip Docility
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
WHY, if it is not in line, if it is opposed , with all the Father Says in the NT, why "think that"?
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Where is it written that it is "a believer" who blasphemes ? OR a non-believer ?
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How about Romans 2 and Revelation 16?
Romans 2:
17 Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the Law and boast in God; 18 if you know His will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the Law; 19 if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those in darkness, 20 an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21 you, then, who teach others, do you do not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22 You who forbid adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who boast in the Law, do you dishonor God by breaking the Law?
24 As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed/blasfhmeitai<987> among the Gentiles because of ye.” [Reve 16:9, 11, 21]
Reve 16:
9 And the men were scorched with great heat,
and they blasphemed the name of God,
11and they blasphemed the God of heaven
because of their pains and their sores
21 And the men blasphemed God on account of the plague of the hail,
for the plague of it is exceedingly severe.
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
.....
How about what ? Do you think/believe those Scriptures show Ekklesia/ believers blaspheming ?
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It is always best to read what God has to say about a matter friends and this is it. The Apostle Paul who, in the Spirit now, wrote over 70% of the New Testament tells us in Romans 7:14. To accurately paraphrase, he said, I just do not understand what I do! The good I want to do I don't do, but the filth that I hate? This I keep on doing. Paul makes a clear distinction between our Spirits, that are made perfect the moment we believe in the finished work of Christ and our "sin nature" . That filthy thing we all must deal with. One step further... When God says repent? What was the definition in Hebrew when He said it? It's "Nacham", "Metamelomai", or concern or regret which is akin to remorse. Not sin free! If we say we have no sin? WE lie and now that's a sin. We believers do the very best we can, but like puppies chasing a ball, we sometimes wander off only to return to the loving, Grace filled arms of Jesus. It's all about Grace and that's a permanent -FREE- gift. God bless you all...
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BCP Evening Prayer General Confession
ALMIGHTY and most merciful Father, We have erred, and strayed from thy ways like lost sheep, We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts, We have offended against thy holy laws, We have left undone those things which we ought to have done, And we have done those things which we ought not to have done, And there is no health in us: But thou, O Lord, have mercy upon us miserable offenders; Spare thou them, O God, which confess their faults, Restore thou them that are penitent, According to thy promises declared unto mankind in Christ Jesu our Lord: And grant, O most merciful Father, for his sake, That we may hereafter live a godly, righteous, and sober life, To the glory of thy holy Name. Amen.
BCP Evening Prayer Absolution
ALMIGHTY God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he may turn from his wickedness, and live; and hath given power, and commandment, to his Ministers, to declare and pronounce to his people, being penitent, the Absolution and Remission of their sins: He pardoneth and absolveth all them that truly repent, and unfeignedly believe his holy Gospel. Wherefore let us beseech him to grant us true repentance, and his Holy Spirit, that those things may please him, which we do at this present; and that the rest of our life hereafter may be pure, and holy; so that at the last we may come to his eternal joy; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
I think what I would want to underline here is not only this:
And grant, O most merciful Father, for his sake, That we may hereafter live a godly, righteous, and sober life, To the glory of thy holy Name. Amen.
but also this:
ALMIGHTY God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he may turn from his wickedness, and live;
ALMIGHTY and most merciful Father, We have erred, and strayed from thy ways like lost sheep, We have followed too much the devices and desires of our own hearts, We have offended against thy holy laws, We have left undone those things which we ought to have done, And we have done those things which we ought not to have done, And there is no health in us: But thou, O Lord, have mercy upon us miserable offenders; Spare thou them, O God, which confess their faults, Restore thou them that are penitent, According to thy promises declared unto mankind in Christ Jesu our Lord: And grant, O most merciful Father, for his sake, That we may hereafter live a godly, righteous, and sober life, To the glory of thy holy Name. Amen.
ALMIGHTY God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he may turn from his wickedness, and live; and hath given power, and commandment, to his Ministers, to declare and pronounce to his people, being penitent, the Absolution and Remission of their sins: He pardoneth and absolveth all them that truly repent, and unfeignedly believe his holy Gospel. Wherefore let us beseech him to grant us true repentance, and his Holy Spirit, that those things may please him, which we do at this present; and that the rest of our life hereafter may be pure, and holy; so that at the last we may come to his eternal joy; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
And grant, O most merciful Father, for his sake, That we may hereafter live a godly, righteous, and sober life, To the glory of thy holy Name. Amen.
ALMIGHTY God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he may turn from his wickedness, and live;
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yeshuaslavejeff
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@LittleLambofJesus , do you think/believe EVERY CHRISTIAN does THAT - CONTINUALLY CONTINUES TO WILLFULLY SIN ?
I don't think you do. I hope not.
I don't know why you brought up blasphemy .....
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LovebirdsFlying
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All Christians continue to sin, but the words "willfully keeps on sinning" suggests the attitude, "I don't care if it's a sin. I'm going to keep doing it." It's hard for me to imagine a Christian feeling that way. Not realizing it's a sin, yes. Knowing it's a sin but being addicted to it/not having the self-control to stop it, that happens. Knowing it's a sin but not caring, that isn't the definition of repentance.
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Have you fully given your will over to God so that you only want to do his will? Or you think it's possible to resist temptation forever? I'm just curious how this relates to my post.
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I would have to say to that person, what makes them think they've been born again?
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repenting means to turn from/stop habitually sinning
You can’t “repent and keep habitually sinning”
If you are habitually and willfully sinning, you haven’t repented
You can’t “repent and keep habitually sinning”
If you are habitually and willfully sinning, you haven’t repented
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