What is the original language of John 3:5?

mark kennedy said:

I've seen that before, I was trying to make a little different point. We emphasize that baptism represents the death, burial and resurrection of Christ and should. But I think there is something else going on here, baptism isn't just repentance for the remission of sin. Did you know brides back in that day were baptized in their wedding dress? Her old life was past, she was rising up to walk as a wife and mother now, the old life was gone. Jesus life as a carpenter and submitting to his earthly parents was over. After Jesus went into the ministry I don't think he ever picked up another hammer, his life changed forever.

I think that's the idea here, no big doctrinal point, just something I think could prove insightful. We think of repentance as being our repentance from sin, and of course it is. But if you step back a bit and think about it Jesus was baptized not because of sin, but because to fulfill all righteousness he had to go into the ministry, his life as a carpenter was over.

Grace and peace,
Mark

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Baptism accomplishes many things ,but for us humans it is formost a death and a resurrection. We literally drowned the old person in the water.
The ressurection is the new person who emerges. A new creation in christ.

The Hermenia commentary (by Luz) says:

"Thus I agree with the intention of all ancient and more recent interpretations that emphasize Jesus as an example. Dionysius bar Salibi speaks to the point of our passage when he says that Jesus “came to John to teach us humility.”Πραΰς (meek, humble, gentle) and ταπεινός (lowly) are key christological and ethical terms for Matthew (e.g., 11:29). Jesus is presented as the exemplary obedient and humble one. For Matthew his first words in the Gospel refer to this. Jesus’ conduct has fundamental significance."

Toolbelt said:

Baptism accomplishes many things ,but for us humans it is formost a death and a resurrection. We literally drowned the old person in the water.
The ressurection is the new person who emerges. A new creation in christ.

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That's why Jesus told disciple makers to baptize, it reiterates the gospel, which should always be the heart of the emphasis.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Its not just about the bible and morality. The sacraments are about salvation in a dualistic approch. Body and soul. Just as marriage is an inward and outward expression. When a couple loves each other they go forward to the alter to consummate what they feel. The marriage itself is sanctified. What they felt before the alter is consummated fully at that moment.
All of the sacraments are a fulfillment of what is occurring internally, but the forfillment becomes whole at the alter of Christ.

mark kennedy said:

Early on one of the things that puzzled me, and apparently puzzled John the Baptist, is that Jesus was baptized. Certainly the Incarnate Son of God didn't need to repent of sin so does that tell us something about baptism?

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of course, He also did not NEED to be presented in the Temple as the Incarnate Logos. but that is a moot point to the topic at hand. the point is that when the Church is established, the only evidence in Scripture is people are baptized to come into the Church and it is not an option. even St Paul, after his conversion and calls Christ Lord, still was commanded to go to Ananias to be baptized.

ArmyMatt said:

of course, He also did not NEED to be presented in the Temple as the Incarnate Logos. but that is a moot point to the topic at hand. the point is that when the Church is established, the only evidence in Scripture is people are baptized to come into the Church and it is not an option. even St Paul, after his conversion and calls Christ Lord, still was commanded to go to Ananias to be baptized.

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I was just pointing out that repentance in his case wasn't a moral one, since Christ is obviously sinless. He was probably put to work early in life, I'm guessing Joseph started teaching him carpentry shortly after he was old enough to walk. It's almost comical, the creator of all things learning carpentry from a human father. We know at 12 he would have had his bar mitzvah, from that time forward he would have been considered a man. Joseph is gone by the time Jesus entered the ministry so I assume Joseph had passed, Jesus would have been the head of the household.

I'm just saying, Jesus left that life behind not that there was anything inherently wrong with being a carpenter. When he says it is necessary for us to fulfill all righteousness I think he is talking about going into ministry. It's not really a major doctrinal point, just something I find curious is all. Repentance there would not have been from sin exactly, just kind of leaving something good for something better and more important.

Grace and peace,
Mark

I agree with your points, but I am sorry, I dunno what this has to do with the topic. unless this is just an observation.

mark kennedy said:

We know at 12 he would have had his bar mitzvah, from that time forward he would have been considered a man.

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The Bar/Bat Mitzvah as we know it today is at 13 years of age and came from Talmudic Judaism in the Middle Ages. According to Jewish law, a person is obligated to fulfill all the Mitzvot once a they reach that age whether they had a ceremony or not.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

The Bar/Bat Mitzvah as we know it today is at 13 years of age and came from Talmudic Judaism in the Middle Ages. According to Jewish law, a person is obligated to fulfill all the Mitzvot once a they reach that age whether they had a ceremony or not.

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While that is all very interesting and apparently well founded, I was using the term Bar Mitzvah in a more general sense:

From what I'm getting the age of accountability was right around that age, notice his age at that time was 12.

Grace and peace,
Mark

mark kennedy said:

While that is all very interesting and apparently well founded, I was using the term Bar Mitzvah in a more general sense:

Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover. And when he was twelve years old, they went up according to custom. And when the feast was ended, as they were returning, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem. His parents did not know it, but supposing him to be in the group they went a day’s journey, but then they began to search for him among their relatives and acquaintances, and when they did not find him, they returned to Jerusalem, searching for him.

After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. And all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers. (Luke 2:41-47)
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From what I'm getting the age of accountability was right around that age, notice his age at that time was 12.

The fact that the age of twelve is specifically noted may suggest that it was a transition age even in the first-century, though any evidence comes from the later period of the Talmud. At least, twelve could be considered an age when a young man evidenced wisdom and piety. (Bar and Bat Mitzvah. Jews for Jesus)
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Grace and peace,
Mark

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while an interesting thought, I doubt there is any connection.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

while an interesting thought, I doubt there is any connection.

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Like you say, just a thought but that was the general impression I got.