SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

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FreeGrace2

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So one can be a believer and be a worker of iniquity? That is the only conclusion I can make as concerning what your belief might be.
You have continued to dodge my question about all the commands for holiness and bearing fruit for believers. If believers will live righteous lives, WHY the commands?
 
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FreeGrace2

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And to more succinctly expound on the passage, God gives to Jesus' sheep the promise that "I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

The passage doesn't specifically say that recipients of eternal life shall never perish
Are you kidding?? Of course it does, and it does very clearly.

Jesus said: "I give them eternal life". Therefore, the "them" become recipients, since Jesus gives them eternal life. Your claim is off the rails.

Then Jesus said, "and they shall never perish". The "they" refers back to the "them", which are recipients of eternal life

So, yes, Jesus DID say recipinets of eternal life shall never perish.

it specifically and technically says that Jesus' sheep are recipients of eternal life AND shall never perish.
So what? We know from many verses that to be one of His sheep, one must enter through Him, per 10:9. And John 3:15,16, 5:24 and 6:47 say clearly that whosoever believes HAS eternal life.

So the effect is eternal life and never perishing, while the cause is Jesus, I will agree with you there. But to whom does Jesus give eternal life? To His sheep, who are known by Him: who by definition are not workers of iniquity.
No, not by definition. By your fuzzy logic, by conflating Matt 7:21-23 into John 10.

But, they are different contexts totally.

No dice.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Context is important

JOHN 10:24-28 [24], Then came the Jews round about him, and said to him, How long do you make us to doubt? If you be the Christ, tell us plainly. [25], Jesus answered them, I told you, and you believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. [26], But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you. [27], My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28], And I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Key points

God's WORD tells us his truth we can choose to BELIEVE or NOT BELIEVE v25
God's Sheep are those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW Jesus who is the true Shepard v26-27
God's sheep hear is voice (the Word of God) HE KNOWS THEM and they FOLLOW him.

......................

CONCLUSION: Who is it that God gives eternal life? Those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD who God KNOWS.

......................

How do we KNOW if we KNOW him?

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby WE DO KNOW IF WE KNOW HIM, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that said, I KNOW HIM, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

God's Sheep are those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. These are those who KNOW him. Scripture context is always important. God's promises are conditional on BELIEVING, FOLLOWING and CONTINUING in God's WORD (John 8:31-36)

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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CAN YOU FALL AWAY FROM FOLLOWING GOD AND BE LOST?

A "Believer" is one that is abiding and following God in the present tense of the Word. I noticed that EVERY scripture you have provided is not talking about someone that has followed God as a believer and has chosen to leave God and go back into the world choosing a life of sin and not returning to Jesus. Let's look at these scriptures as God's WORD is full of them and you have left these scriptures out of your OP.

This is not to say someone that was a believer and comes back to God will not be saved. All will be saved if they return to God in time (Prodigal son).

There however will be those that because of the freewill God gives us choose to go back in to the World after believing God and decide not to come back to God.

These are the class that God's Word says will be lost. Why because they have rejected God through their unbelief in His Word. They have chosen to believe the first lie from the Garden of Eden "Ye shall not surely die if you eat of the forbidden fruit" Ignoring the Word of God that says "Not to touch or eat of the fruit lest ye die" or "the wages of sin is death (Genesis 3:1-5; Romans 6:23)

You can look all through God's Word from Genesis to Revelations and you will see that God has always had a believing people that at some point believed God but choose to go back into the world in rebellion and reaped what they sowed.

Some scriptures worth consideration...

EZEKIEL 3:20 [20], Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

EZEKIEL 18:4 [4], Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.

ROMANS 6:23 [23], For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. <the wages of SIN is death to those still in sin because they have not accepted God gift of salvation from sin>

MATTHEW 13:20-21 [20], But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and anon with joy receiveth it <believer> [21] Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution arise because of the word, by and by he is offended ,<Believer leaves God>

MATTHEW 13:22 [22], He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word <believer>; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful <Believer leaves God>.

MATTHEW 13:23 [23], But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty <Saved believer staying with Christ>.

COLOSSIANS 1:21-23 [21] And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled <become believers> [22] in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— [23[ if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-These were believers above
-They were to be presented holy, blameless and above reproach (no scope for unrepentant sin in a believers life)
-this is possible (IF THEY CONTINUED IN THE FAITH) - grounded, steadfast, not moved.

LUKE 22:31-32 [31] And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. [32] But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”

Now what is plain to see is this:
-If it were not possible for faith to fail, as the strong delusionalists claim, then it would not be necessary for Jesus to have had to pray to the Father this prayer above.

1 TIMOTHY 2 :18-20 [18] This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, [19] having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, [20] of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2 TIMOTHY 2:16-19 [16], But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. [17] And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, [18] who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. [19] Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

Now what is plain to see is this:
-its possible to stray concerning the truth
-its possible to once have known the truth but to have strayed therefrom
-faith can be overthrown.
-these people are no longer saved. Because you can only receive salvation through faith.
-sin is still a factor " Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity". Contrary to what the strong delusionalists say.

JUDE 1:3 [3], Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-contending for the faith - its a prize. It is to be protected, defended, fought for.
-by not contending for this, it can be lost.

2 TIMOTHY 4:7-8 [7], I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: [8] Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-Paul, writer of most of the New Testament, fought the good fight. Finished the course. And KEPT the faith.
-why would it be necessary for him to write about "kept the faith" if it wasn't possible to have lost faith.

1 JOHN 5:4 [4], For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-Our faith is what overcomes the world. We are supposed to OVERCOME THE WORLD.
-What is the world? (definition:1 John 2v16 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world).

REVELATION 2:10 [10] Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-Faith is not a once off, momentary decision, applicable for all time.
-Faith, once received, once believed, is to be maintained.
-the corollary is this - if you are NOT faithful until death, or lose your faith, you shall not receive the crown of life.

The word is very clear - its to him who overcomes:

REVELATION 2:7 To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life
REVELATION 2:11 He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.
REVELATION 2:17 To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat.
REVELATION 2:26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

REVELATION 3:5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life
REVELATION 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more.
REVELATION 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne

Now to those who lose the faith. Who once had the faith yet turned their backs on Christ, we have the subject matter of the 'other' thread. Which is clearly visible for all to see below:

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes often upon it, and brings forth plants fit for them by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God: [8], But that which bears thorns and briars is worthless, and is near unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Now what is plain to see is this:
-Let there no illusions that these were believers, and were once in the faith.
-once they "fall away" (and we can see that this is a very real risk warned about by the NT writers, as well as Jesus) to be renewed again unto repentance.

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Parable of the Sower (falling away)

MATTHEW 13:18-23 [18], Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. [19], When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart <UNBELIEVER>. This is he which received seed by the way side. [20], But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and for a while with joy receives it <BELIEVER>; [21], Yet hath he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, by and by he is offended <FALLS AWAY>. [22], He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful <BELIEVER THAT FALLS AWAY>.

23, But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty <BELIEVER>.

Other examples in the NT- Judas

The facts are these;

1. Judas was one of the 12 disciples. You cannot be one of the 12 disciples without being a believer
2. He for a time was following Jesus and put in a responsibility of trust.
3. He was given the Holy Spirit and went out preaching the Gospel
4. He believed Jesus then he betrayed and fell away from Jesus and went back into the world. He was a believer that left God.

Scripture proof line upon line: Matt 10:1-5; Matt 26:14; Luke 22:48; 23:3; Heb 6:4-8; Heb 10:26-27; John 15:1-10; John 14:15

MATTHEW 24:13 [13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

.................

CONCLUSION: "...you are saved if you hold fast the word..." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB) and endure unto the end. You can turn away from God and be LOST if you continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN.

Hope this helps
 
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justbyfaith

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You have continued to dodge my question about all the commands for holiness and bearing fruit for believers. If believers will live righteous lives, WHY the commands?

I have answered this question now three times in this thread. Here is a fourth. The commands are given as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ.
 
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justbyfaith

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Are you kidding?? Of course it does, and it does very clearly.

Jesus said: "I give them eternal life". Therefore, the "them" become recipients, since Jesus gives them eternal life. Your claim is off the rails.

Then Jesus said, "and they shall never perish". The "they" refers back to the "them", which are recipients of eternal life

So, yes, Jesus DID say recipinets of eternal life shall never perish.


So what? We know from many verses that to be one of His sheep, one must enter through Him, per 10:9. And John 3:15,16, 5:24 and 6:47 say clearly that whosoever believes HAS eternal life.


No, not by definition. By your fuzzy logic, by conflating Matt 7:21-23 into John 10.

But, they are different contexts totally.

No dice.
It specifically says that Jesus does three things for His sheep: 1) He gives them eternal life, 2) they shall never perish, and 3) No one shall snatch them out of His hand.

Now, while Jesus does for His sheep that He both gives them eternal life AND that they shall never perish, so that those who have eternal life will never perish; the sentence structure dictates that Jesus gives to His sheep eternal life AND they shall never perish, so that the effect is eternal life and never perishing; the CAUSE of NEVER PERISHING therefore is not eternal life but that they are one of Jesus' sheep; and being one of Jesus' sheep is also the cause of having eternal life. Jesus gives to His sheep eternal life; and therefore Jesus is the cause; but the middle function of who Jesus gives eternal life to is that Jesus gives eternal life to His sheep.

Comparing John 10:27-28 to Matthew 7:23 is sound hermeneutics. See 1 Corinthians 2:13 kjv. They are the same context topically.

Just like when you look at 2 Corinthians 9:6 and the immediate context demands that you interpret it to mean that if we sow a financial seed sparingly we will reap in our finances sparingly, but if we sow bountifully with our finances we will reap bountifully in our finances. But there is also a topical context wherein the principle of 2 Corinthians 9:6 can be applied to sowing and reaping with the word of God. By comparing it to Luke 8:11. And of course Galatians 6:7 would tell us that if we sow the word of God we will reap of the like; and if we sow in finances we will reap of the like.

This is merely an example of how we can apply principles of scripture by comparing to other scripture although technically one can be accused of taking the scripture out of context; yet the teaching that comes from it is sound and edifying. We can certainly take it as wisdom that if I sow the word of God bountifully I will reap bountifully a harvest of souls.
 
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justbyfaith

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What I have gotten from John10:28 is that everyone who has received eternal life shall never perish.

Do you agree with this or not?

Regardless, that is what Jesus very plainly said.
Of course I agree with this. You should know my position by now.

Whosoever doeth the will of God ABIDETH FOR EVER. 1 John 2:17. And whosoever abideth in him SINNETH NOT. 1 John 3:6.

I think we may have different definitions of who it is that really has eternal life. Mine is biblical; yours isn't.
 
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justbyfaith

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If you can cite any post # where I rejected that FACT, please cite it. Or apologize for your error. Of course Jesus gives eternal life only to His sheep. But that's not the point I've been making. Which is Jesus was teaching us the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life.

iow, He is the CAUSE of having eternal life, otherwise no one gets it.
Never perishing is the EFFECT of having eternal life.

A different discussion concerns who receives eternal life. But that is easily shown from a number of verses, such as John 3:15, 16, 5:24, 6:47 and 10:9.


What is clear is that they never believed, and never received eternal life.


you still miss the point. Once eternal life is given, that recipient shall never perish.


If you try to prove that believers, who possess eternal life, cannot sin, rebel, etc, then your logic is fuzzy and flawed.

The only point about John 10:28 is that when given eternal life, that person shall never perish. That is eternal security, and it has nothing to do with how the recipient turns out or behaves.
So, in your opinion, my logic has to be fuzzy and flawed because of its subject matter of what it is I am trying to prove?

It only goes to show that you are closed-minded to the logic of what I am saying, not because the logic is truly fuzzy and flawed; but because of your preconceived notion that any logic that proves the subject matter must be fuzzy and flawed because it is seeking to prove that specific subject matter.

If I used similar logic to prove something that you yourself want to believe, it would not be fuzzy and flawed in your opinion but sound and on the target.
 
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EmSw

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So, in your opinion, my logic has to be fuzzy and flawed because of its subject matter of what it is I am trying to prove?

It only goes to show that you are closed-minded to the logic of what I am saying, not because the logic is truly fuzzy and flawed; but because of your preconceived notion that any logic that proves the subject matter must be fuzzy and flawed because it is seeking to prove that specific subject matter.

If I used similar logic to prove something that you yourself want to believe, it would not be fuzzy and flawed in your opinion but sound and on the target.

JBF, all you need to do is ask FG2 to show you Old Testament passages which tell how OT saints received life. Not only will he fail to do so, but will probably lie about it. I have asked him over 10 or 12 times, and he just won't do it.
 
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justbyfaith

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JBF, all you need to do is ask FG2 to show you Old Testament passages which tell how OT saints received life. Not only will he fail to do so, but will probably lie about it. I have asked him over 10 or 12 times, and he just won't do it.
And I can see your point pretty clearly. In Psalms 119:93 it says, I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

I believe that even in the New Testament obedience is important, see Romans 1:5 and the tail end of Romans 16:26.

But I also don't think that we should discount the work of the Cross so flippantly. The blood of Jesus is the source of forgiveness. One can hunger and thirst after righteousness, and be filled: and yet not be forgiven of past sins. This was the state of my heart for a full year after I converted. One year later I backslid because God wanted to show me that I was putting my trust in my own righteousness rather than His.

I really think you should consider what is written in Romans 10:3, For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.

You have stumbled at that stumblingstone. Romans 9:30-32, What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone.
 
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justbyfaith

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Psalms 19:7 tells us that the law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul.

But the question that must be asked is, how does it do this?

Two scriptures:

Romans 3:20, Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 3:24-25, Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Although all Christendom knows that evils must be shunned as sins, or otherwise are not forgiven, and that if they are not forgiven there is no salvation, yet scarcely anyone among thousands understands this.
You really should not only read the Bible, but believe it as well.

Acts 10:43 refutes your claim.
"All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Who do you think Luke meant by "prophets" in that verse?
 
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FreeGrace2

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It specifically says that Jesus does three things for His sheep: 1) He gives them eternal life, 2) they shall never perish, and 3) No one shall snatch them out of His hand.

Now, while Jesus does for His sheep that He both gives them eternal life AND that they shall never perish, so that those who have eternal life will never perish; the sentence structure dictates that Jesus gives to His sheep eternal life AND they shall never perish, so that the effect is eternal life and never perishing; the CAUSE of NEVER PERISHING therefore is not eternal life but that they are one of Jesus' sheep;
Again, you've only misread my posts. I never said the CAUSE of never perishing is eternal life.

This is what I said: the CAUSE of having eternal life is Jesus Christ.
The EFFECT of having eternal life is never perishing.

So I recommend being more careful when reading my posts, or you'll continue to make these kinds of blunders over and over.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I think we may have different definitions of who it is that really has eternal life. Mine is biblical; yours isn't.
Really? Please read this list of who has salvation and eternal life, and tell me the common word in ALL of them.
Salvation:

Mark 16:16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
 
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FreeGrace2

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So, in your opinion, my logic has to be fuzzy and flawed because of its subject matter of what it is I am trying to prove?
No, "because of what you're trying to prove", but in the MANNER how you've gone about it.
 
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EmSw

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You really should not only read the Bible, but believe it as well.

Acts 10:43 refutes your claim.
"All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Who do you think Luke meant by "prophets" in that verse?

Yep, I figured you were one who didn't understand forgiveness unto salvation. But it's your choice to believe one must repent for forgiveness or not. Since you're climbing up another way, it doesn't surprise me you have no idea about repentance. It is more than just changing your mind.

No one can be said to repent unless he actually separates himself from those things of which he has repented; he separates himself from them when he shuns them and holds them in aversion.

For it is an untruth of faith that an evil does not condemn him who is in faith, in consequence of which the man lives unconcerned, not thinking about any evil. And thus he never repents. He acts in a similar manner if he persuades himself that works effect nothing for salvation, but faith alone without them.

The word of the prophets was not to 'believe' in Jesus, but rather, to repent from evils and wickedness.

Jeremiah 8:6
I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, what have I done?

Ezekiel 14:6
Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

Ezekiel 18:30
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Do you think Ezekiel and Jeremiah were the prophets?
 
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justbyfaith

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Again, you've only misread my posts. I never said the CAUSE of never perishing is eternal life.

This is what I said: the CAUSE of having eternal life is Jesus Christ.
The EFFECT of having eternal life is never perishing.

So I recommend being more careful when reading my posts, or you'll continue to make these kinds of blunders over and over.
No; the cause of having eternal life and never perishing is Jesus Christ; and the middle factor is that we are Jesus' sheep. So the effect of being one of Jesus' sheep is eternal life which means we shall never perish. The sentence structure of the verses speaks closer to what I am saying than to what you have said.

Also, your logic is faulty. If the effect of having eternal life is never perishing, then the cause of never perishing is eternal life. Which is not the case according to this scripture (John 10:27-28). But your statements above indicate to me that you don't understand the relationship between cause and effect. If something has a cause, it is the effect of that cause. And if something has an effect, it is the cause of that effect.

And I am certainly not saying that in this scripture those who have eternal life will perish. Those who have eternal life will never perish. However, the equation is A(D)= B + C, where A is Jesus Christ, D is being one of His sheep, B is eternal life, and C is never perishing. You have it as A(B)=C. Not only are you missing something in your equation, but you have B on entirely the wrong side.
 
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