Paul preached easy believism

MDC said:

Giving what is holy to dogs is evident in your comments. Trampling is all you are doing

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tdidymas said:

So what are you saying here? That God has contingency plans? This sounds like the "Open Theist" theory.
TD

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You sound like the other first year Bible college students who armed with a little new knowledge went about labelling everything.

God has His perfect will. Contingency plans? That's surely not a word for God! The very idea that God DOES know, and DOES give us free will and DOES have a response for each way we go denies "contingency".

Throughout the Bible we read, esp in the OT, where God says thus and thus will occur....but ...
I present the story of Ninevah and Jonah. I doubt you would suggest that GOD lied to Jonah saying He was going to destroy Ninevah, right? I personally cannot say that Ninevah's salvation was a "contingency" plan of God's either.

Colter said:

Jesus didn’t spend 3+ years preaching “kill me for your sins”. The cross hadn’t happened, the original gospel could not have been “Christ and him crucified.”

If the Jews believed in the gospel that they killed him for, they would be preaching it today from the Temple.

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BobRyan said:

The saints "keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"This is the Love of God that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not a burden" 1 John 5:2-4

Acts 15 does not list "do not take God's name in vain" but it still applies

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Bobber said:

No of course not BUT he was giving them little bits of what was yet to come. With Nicodemus he talked about himself being lifted up and about the serpent on the stick....which would point to Jesus being made a curse for us on the tree. John 3

Scripture states if the devil knew how the redemptive plan would work he wouldn't have crucified the Lord of glory. 1 Cor 2:8

Jesus during his earth walk wasn't preaching covenant realities of what his assignment was ultimately all about. John the Baptist had an inkling of it by saying, "Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" although it was still a mystery to him. It was somewhat all progressive revelation until after Jesus rose from the dead and the victory was won over sin, death and the grave. To the disciples on the Road to Emmaus Jesus appeared to them and began to share the more fuller revelation....And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. Luke 24

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GodsGrace101 said:

I agree. I was specifically referring to
Mathew 25:34-46 when Jesus states specific good deeds we should do.

Those that believe that they are to do nothing after salvation because they'll be saved anyway are sadly mistaken, as these verses (and others) prove.

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GodsGrace101 said:

Also, I'd like to add that when there is any "discrepancy" between Jesus and Paul, we always refer back to Jesus.

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aiki said:

The Gospel has not been properly communicated to a person who thinks after hearing it that they may be saved without any resulting change to their living. However, it is not the doing of good deeds after salvation that maintains a person's salvation. Good deeds are merely the reflection of an inward change, they are the natural manifestation of genuine salvation not the means of it. To fail to make this distinction leads quickly to legalism and works-salvation. Easy-believism is unbiblical but so is the opposite extreme that makes the believer's works necessary to their redemption and adoption into God's family.

Titus 3:5-7
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.



??? Was Paul not inspired by the Holy Spirit, by God, to write and teach the things he did? Yes, he was. Is Jesus not God? Yes, he is. Can we not then say that Jesus, through Paul, wrote the things Paul contributed to the New Testament? Yes, we can. There is, then, no division one should be making between Paul's epistles and the words of Christ recorded in the Gospels. They have the same ultimate Author and so ought to be held on par with each other. When the words of Paul seem to conflict with the words of Jesus, it is up to us to discern how to synthesize Christ's and Paul's words, not put them in contradiction to one another and so resort to a hierarchy of Scripture that elevates some parts of Scripture over others in order to make sense of them. The Bible is all God's word; there is no lesser or greater Scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

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W2L said:

Paul's teaching is far from easy believism. HIs teaching is difficult to understand. I dont claim to fully understand the man, but his words have helped guide me where im at today.

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EternallyKeptByJesus said:

STONE THE APOSTLE PAUL.

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Paul states the Gospel he recieved.

1Co 15:1 Now I made known to you, brothers, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which you also stand,
1Co 15:2 through which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Interesting that Paul made no mention of having to repent of sins (a phrase you cannot find in the new testatment) or clean yourself up first or promise to do some kind of good or any condition of any kind in conjunction with trust that Jesus died for your sins and rose again. He did not say make Jesus Lord and Savior, he did not say invite Jesus into your heart or all the myriad of various things added to a salvation invitation.

Paul simply said to just trust that Jesus died for your sins and rose again. Nothing more.

To add to this in Acts 19:18-19

Act 19:18 And many of those who had believed were coming, confessing and disclosing their deeds.
Act 19:19 And many of those who were practicing magic brought together their books and burned them up before all...

What is interesting is that it says those who had believed. They was already Christians and they was still practicing magic and other sinful deeds. If the Lordship people had their way, they would have told those people, you are not saved. We need to rewrite this. First you repent of sins and clean yourself up and burn up your books and stop your sinning and then believe in Jesus and you will be saved.

The Corinthian church was the most carnal (“fleshly”) church mentioned in the Bible (1 Corinthians 3:1-4). They were selfish, sexually immoral, and cliquish. And yet Paul did not doubt that they were saved. He speaks of them as brothers and sisters in Christ (1 Corinthians 1:2-9). Paul was harsher on the church of Galatia which, while certainly more moral, but was falling into legalism: works-based righteousness.

Even in James their are believers that are praying for bad things to be done to others. And yet they are believers.

But the Lordship and anti easy believism people would have us believe that promise of good or works plus believe will save us. I like what I heard pastor Joseph Prince said once. Do you get clean before you take a bath or after? You don't get clean before taking a bath that is silly. You take a bath to get clean.

So you don't repent of sins or promise some good to get saved. You do easy believism. You trust in Jesus death and resurrection for your sins period. And then His blood cleanses you and once God is in your life God will work on changing your behavior whether it is witchcraft, sexual immorality or what ever it might be.

The Bible even speaks about turning away from sins to believers. Giving up sin and learning to do good works is a process after your saved, but getting in is as easy as deciding to open the door and walk into the room.

I know many will disagree with the Bible

I know I know flame on right

Well this is what I believe.

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EternallyKeptByJesus said:

The Corinthian church was the most carnal (“fleshly”) church mentioned in the Bible (1 Corinthians 3:1-4). They were selfish, sexually immoral, and cliquish. And yet Paul did not doubt that they were saved. He speaks of them as brothers and sisters in Christ (1 Corinthians 1:2-9).

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SaintCody777 said:

Didn't Paul warn in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 that those who consistently kept carnal sins, such as those listed in the verse, would not inherit the kingdom of God. He also said "DO NOT BE DECEIVED!" right before that list for a very good reason. Besides, the carnality in Corinth, there were a lot of divisive false preachers stirring up people against Paul and even taught that you can sin all you want and go to heaven as long as you believe on the work of Jesus.
I'm not saying we have to work to earn salvation but rather good Christian deeds are the RESULT of true faith in the work of Jesus. He regenerates genuine believers with a new heart to love the things He loves and hate thing things He hates. This is why right after Paul gave the warning of who would not inherit the kingdom of God, he says, in 1 Corinthians 6:11, that some people were washed and sanctified of their carnal mind by the blood of Jesus, who changes those who believe on Him.

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BobRyan said:

And Paul wrote

"I buffet my body and make it my slave lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it" 1 Cor 9:27

Paul wrote
Phil 3
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Paul wrote
2 Tim 4
7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Paul wrote
Romans 2
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.
..
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit,

Paul wrote
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Paul wrote
1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you;

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Colter said:

I’m pointing out that Jesus preached the gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven several years prior to being put to death for it. Obviously Paul’s gospel focuses on Jesus being put to death and not the original gospel for which he was put to death.

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GodsGrace101 said:

Keeping the law is no longer required?????
Where did you learn this?
Not from scripture.

You referred to me as a legalist. I like to think of myself as one who obeys the commandments of God.

Please show me where in the N.T. we are told not to obey the commandments of God.

John 14:15
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

2 Corinthians 10:5
5We aredestroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ

Revelation 14:12
12Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

2 John 1:6
6And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.


Please take notice that all of the above verses are from AFTER the resurrection.

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Bobber said:

The gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven or things about the Kingdom that Jesus spoke doesn't mean there wasn't more revelation and insight to come and I'd respectfully suggest that's where you err. Jesus said himself, "I still have much to tell you but you cannot yet bear to hear it." His disciples during his ministry had no comprehension even of the end game, for they kept thinking right up to the time of his death that he was going to become ruler of Israel as the Messiah. Just because the writings of Paul focuses in upon what it all meant that is the why of why Jesus even had to die does not mean he was giving some new gospel not from God. It was always God's good news but it was progressive until the victory was won and Jesus arose from the dead.

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Colter said:

In the original gospel of the Kingdom, that Jesus instructed the apostles to carry to the 4 corners of the earth, salvation was secured by faith in the Father. That was the religion of Jesus. Jesus never taught the Pagan atonment doctrine, the "good news" that people herd from Jesus wasn't that God would forgive them after God saw his blameless Son die on the cross; theoretical salvation. In the original gospel salvation was real, a concious change of heart by faith and the responsibility that comes with it. Killing Jesus was a catistrophic sin for the Jews who rejected his Gospel.

After Jesus left, the gospel changed, a sincere Paul unwittingly overwealmed the movement with his own gospel. The apostles were imperfect men as you pointed out, a few followed Paul, other apostles fell out with Pauls version. They stayed true and disappeared from history.

We will eventually return to the Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven.

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tdidymas said:

"Repent and believe" is not a chronological order of actions. It is simultaneous. Heb. 4:2 "For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard." We must unite (or mix, or combine) our faith with what we hear in the gospel - IOW repent with faith in those promises of the gospel. If repentance is without faith (i.e. chronologically first) it is an exercise in futility, since you'll never get to faith that way. Therefore, Jesus' command "repent and believe the gospel" is a call to simultaneously repent and believe.
TD

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David Cabrera said:

Why do you believe what Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John wrote? They were humans who could have modified the words of Jesus for their own teachings. I mean, humans can be wrong.

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