SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
That's what the Bible clearly indicates. If saving faith all by itself did produce righteous living, then there would be no need for any commands for righteous living.

Yet, there are many such commands in the Bible. So please explain WHY we have commands for righteous living IF saving faith produces it.

It is the tense of past action. One example is found in Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed (aorist), you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Some people treat the present tense of 'believe' as meaning as long as one believes they are saved. But the aorist refutes that idea, since it is also used for believing for salvation.

But further, the present tense does not carry the idea that results of believing in the present require the action of believing to be continuous.

It is talking about a saving faith, which will always be tenacious enough to endure to the end.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 28, 2018

justbyfaith said:
You are arguing from the Bible against the Bible. Now I have prayed that the Lord will demolish this stronghold of an argument in your life, through the heavy artillery of prayer.

I've done no such thing. And where is the "evidence" that supports your claim?

Which verse have I used to refute any other verse? That would be the basis of your claim that I'm arguing the Bible against itself.

That is just absurd. But please support your claim with actual evidence.

Anyone can claim anything. But it's evidence that wins the day.

If you don't provide evidence, no win for you today.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
NIV - Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge.

Please show from the context that loss of salvation is in view.

I see that your itching ears led you to reject the kjv for the niv.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 28, 2018

justbyfaith said:
It is talking about a saving faith, which will always be tenacious enough to endure to the end.

Where does the Bible speak of a "tenacious enough" faith that saves? That a "not tenacious enough" faith won't save?

FreeGrace2 · Apr 28, 2018

justbyfaith said:
I see that your itching ears led you to reject the kjv for the niv.

I prefer normal 20th Century English to the outdated and archaic ye Olde English.

btw, I use biblehub.com frequently to compare how 28 English translations render given verses.

So your claim that I have "rejected" the kvj is fallacious.

And why the ad hominem slur about my ears? If you prefer an outdated and archaic translation, that's your privilege.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
I said this:
"Oh, here we go again.

My belief is exactly what Jesus about those who have received eternal life because He gave it to them.

THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Is that clear enough for you?

So, let me ask you a question.

Can a recipient of eternal life perish? Yes or no."

I answered in BOLD. So you ask again?

And thanks for ignoring my question.

Can a recipient of eternal life perish? yes or no?

Revelation 14:7-11 declares the fate of those who reject Christ and take the mark of the beast. Technically, they won't perish, but will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. That doesn't sound like my idea of salvation, although they also "will never perish".

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
I said this:
"You can't change physical DNA and you can't change your "spiritual DNA", per 1 John 3:9."

neither. What makes you think any person is born a child of the devil? We all know that one has to be born again in order to be a child of God.

Your questions are rather odd.

Yes, but please show from Scripture that man is born a child of the devil.

Neutral? I never said that, nor do I agree with that. Man is born spiritually DEAD, separated from God. Man cannot change his DNA. God does that when He regenerates those who believe in Christ for salvation.

And man becomes a child of God through faith in Christ.

John 1:12 - Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—

Gal 3:26 - So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith,

You see, my claims are backed up with Scripture.

Again, man can do nothing in this regard. Your questions continue to be quite odd.

It seems you are totally unaware of the difference between physical and spiritual DNA.

But why even care about any of this, since your theology is simply to keep the commandments for eternal life? None of this should matter if that were true.

I do hope you address post #2270 point by point to show how my explanation of Jesus' interaction with the rich man is wrong.

Would you say that someone who is steeped in total depravity is a commiter of sin? He who commits sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.

BNR32FAN · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Really? Explain your erroneous claim.

Been there done that several times.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Seems you're having great difficulty following this discussion. I never said anyone is saved by righteous living.

In fact, Jesus said only One is good, and that sure ain't man. Only God is good.

This was Jesus' answer in Mark 10:18 - “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone."

And Jesus told the man how to be PERFECT in the context of keeping the commandments and receiving eternal life:
Matt 19:21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

So the context for the man's question and Jesus' response was about how to be perfect.

Do you claim to be perfect? If you do, then you are in direct opposition to Jesus' statement to the rich man.

Barnabas was a good man...Acts of the Apostles 11:22-24. The fruit of the Spirit is among other things goodness. Galatians 5:22-23. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Hebrews 10:14.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
If "righteous living" is part of how to be saved, then salvation is by faith plus works. Which Eph 2:8,9 directly REFUTES.

How would you know about being "transformed"?

The new birth is spiritual. Not physical. We see the physical, but we cannot see the spiritual. Spiritual transformation is about regeneration, a new birth. It's not visible.

And because of the commands for righteous living SHOWS it isn't automatic or guaranteed for the born again.

See Mark 2:1-5.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

BNR32FAN said:
In a nutshell he is commanded to love and honor God with all his heart, soul, and mind and to love others as Jesus loves us. That requires a certain level of obedience and devotion.

Also, by faith He places that practical love in our hearts. Romans 5:1-5.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Really? Explain your erroneous claim.

It seems like its useless talking to you until the Lord takes the blinders off. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Yes. But nowhere does the Bible say that eternal life is earned by keeping the commandments.

And contrary to Em Sw's unbiblical claims, Galatians 3 explains exactly the plurpose of the Law. To lead us to Christ, for salvation by faith in Him.

Which is exactly what Jesus did with the rich man in Matt 19.

If you say you're a believer and don't keep the commandments, you're a liar and the truth isn't in you.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
I said this:
"I said this:
"What does this mean? Which verses have I "disregarded"?

And what, exactly, is your interpretation of John 10:28? I've sure asked a lot of times.

I've explained the CAUSE and EFFECT of having eternal life. If you think my "interpretation" is in error, please explain WHY.

And please stop just claiming my "interpretation" is wrong, etc. Tell me WHY and HOW it is."

I haven't ignored this verse. Check out the context for it and you'll see what the context is about. Which is the Tribulation. Whatever is meant is for the Tribulation, not all of humanity. Second, we have to ask the question, "saved from WHAT"? Don't just assume it refes to eternal salvation.

Also, if this verse refers to eternal salvation, then how do you square it with what Jesus said in john 10:28? Seems you're the one ignoring specific verses."

This doesn't tell me WHY and HOW my interpretation is wrong about John 10:28.

You're not following. The scriptures in question have to do with a faith that endures to the end. Evidently you didn't click on them or read them before responding.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
I've done no such thing. And where is the "evidence" that supports your claim?

Which verse have I used to refute any other verse? That would be the basis of your claim that I'm arguing the Bible against itself.

That is just absurd. But please support your claim with actual evidence.

Anyone can claim anything. But it's evidence that wins the day.

If you don't provide evidence, no win for you today.

You have done such a thing. You have argued that because THERE ARE COMMANDMENTS, that the one who is born of God isn't motivated by the Holy Spirit to keep them, in direct contradiction to Ezekiel 36:27 and the proper interpretation of Romans 10:10. Also, if you look at the following scriptures together, your opinion is refuted: Romans 5:5, 1 John 3:18, Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
Where does the Bible speak of a "tenacious enough" faith that saves? That a "not tenacious enough" faith won't save?

You need to understand what the scripture is teaching in Ephesians 1:13-14 by comparing to Colossians 1:21-23, Hebrews 3:6, and Hebrews 3:14.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

FreeGrace2 said:
I prefer normal 20th Century English to the outdated and archaic ye Olde English.

btw, I use biblehub.com frequently to compare how 28 English translations render given verses.

So your claim that I have "rejected" the kvj is fallacious.

And why the ad hominem slur about my ears? If you prefer an outdated and archaic translation, that's your privilege.

A subject for a different thread. One exists, I started it a while back.

justbyfaith · Apr 28, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Revelation 14:7-11 declares the fate of those who reject Christ and take the mark of the beast. Technically, they won't perish, but will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. That doesn't sound like my idea of salvation, although they also "will never perish".

I THINK THIS ONE MAY HAVE STOPPED YOU IN YOUR TRACKS.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 28, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Revelation 14:7-11 declares the fate of those who reject Christ and take the mark of the beast. Technically, they won't perish, but will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. That doesn't sound like my idea of salvation, although they also "will never perish".

It's pretty clear that the passage speaks of the lake of fire. The same phrase is used of the beast, false prophet and satan himself in Rev 20.

FreeGrace2 · Apr 28, 2018

I said this:
"You can't change physical DNA and you can't change your "spiritual DNA", per 1 John 3:9."

justbyfaith said:
Would you say that someone who is steeped in total depravity is a commiter of sin?

I believe the Bible, that EVERYONE is a sinner. Rom 3:9, 12, 23.

He who commits sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.

That's right. All sin came from the devil originally. That's we we are born sinners. Thanks to Adam's sin, which came from the devil.

So, when you sin, now you know where it came from.

SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

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