Are fallen or backslidden Christians still saved? Do we repent by our own strength?

Jesus' Girl said:

i don’t believe once saved always saved is correct..that justifies a Christian going into an immoral lifestyle and turning to sin.
There is that verse says that there is no more sacrifice for sin. Surely that is what it means? It is like sitting at God for His sacrifice to keep on winning and it hurts Him..fair enough if we lose our salvation through constant wilful sin

My problem is what if the sin is either accidental, done in pain or anger ..fear (like lying when cornered) or just sin deliberately because we are human. What I’ve heard we have to repent from this immediately. But I always fall short and return to sins I’m unsure are even sins.

Do we repent on our own effort? I’ve been told you do. This made me feel disappointed and sad.
Repentance means to think differently about your sin and take away anything that is a problem..like a computer for inappropriate content or running from a pub if afriend leads you there...etc..
I had no issue changing attitude in the past..which I believe God did..but I returned to some of those sins..some I was still in but trying my hardest to keep away from them I tried to get rid of the best ones I could by my own but still feel some of them and do them. Such as lying under fear, watching videos that come before Christ...hate....etc. I threw away my dvds, music and stopped watching anime (God took away the interest) as a form of repentance. I even tossed away occult objects which was not hard. But I still had a force.

Thing is there is a strong force which goes against this. I tried on my own strength to get rid of sins I could physically remove something and prayed for attitude sins. But trying repentance on my own requires something I don’t have. I believe my repentance was false a sin I went back to animated stuff, comics and still have the same issues.

Do we still keep saved if we turn back into sin? I don’t want to stay in sin just unsure how to fight the sin when sin is so great when you are sad and it fulfils a void God isn’t filling no matter how much you pray!

Click to expand...

"i don’t believe once saved always saved is correct". This as other Doctrines, cannot be founded upon personal "experience". It is either taught in the Word of God, or, they are mere words of human beings. Either a sinner is "saved", or they are "unsaved".

Jesus' Girl said:

My problem is what if the sin is either accidental, done in pain or anger

Click to expand...

As per LEVITICUS.4, unintentional sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking are readily forgiven by God after repentance, without any repercussions for the sins.
....... OTOH, intentional sins can be forgiven by God after repentance but the repercussions/curses for the sins will often still follow.(DEUT.28:15, HEBREWS.10:26-31)

Nevertheless, in exceptional cases, God/Jesus can still withdraw His curses/punishments for intentional sins, eg when Moses and Jesus Christ performed healings, exorcisms, miracles, signs and wonders.("Go and sin no more. ...") This is similar to the POTUS or State Governors having the power/authority to pardon convicted criminals.

Some Christians wrongly believe that Grace or the "justified by faith in Jesus Christ" gives them the license-to-sin = later, they get terminal cancer or other calamities.(PROVERBS.1:26)

From my personal belief and from what I’ve heard, I’ve heard once saved, always saved. Once you ask Christ into your heart and meant it, God writes your name in the book of life, you’ll be in heaven no matter what. Even if you lose your faith, run away or backslide, God can never erase your name from the book of life.

Jesus' Girl said:

i don’t believe once saved always saved is correct..that justifies a Christian going into an immoral lifestyle and turning to sin.

There is that verse says that there is no more sacrifice for sin. Surely that is what it means? It is like sitting at God for His sacrifice to keep on winning and it hurts Him..fair enough if we lose our salvation through constant wilful sin

Click to expand...

We are born into an unsaved condition (i.e. with sin in our lives) ... through no fault of our own.

God offers us salvation (from the penalty, power, and, ultimately, the presence of sin) ... through relationship with Him. He adopts us into His family.

Once adopted, God begins to parent us into sons/daughters who accurately reflect His image (i.e. His values, His character, His desires, etc.). It is a growth process ... and we don't get there right away. And ... we fall short (i.e. sin) along the way. But God doesn't cast us out of His family for our sin. He continues to work with us, ... to repent of, and overcome our sin.

My Bible study has affirmed for me that, as long as we desire to remain with God as His child, ... He will keep us. Now, He will treat us as His child, whether obedient or disobedient, which may/will involve some chastening. But His commitment is to carry our relationship forward and onward to heaven.

So ... pray to God about your failures to completely turn from your sin ... we all have them. Repent of your failures and pray that He will lead and guide you into ever greater closeness and communion with Him. And trust Him to accomplish His will for your life ... though it will, likely, take a lifetime to achieve.

P.S. I believe that the scripture you cited which say that "there remains no more sacrifice" ... is a message to the Jewish/Hebrew christians saying the forgiveness for sin is ONLY found in Jesus, ... and that the sacrifices specified in the Old Testament are no longer effective ...

"For He know our frame. He remembers that we are dust." Psalms 103:14

"But God commended His love toward us, ... in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

"All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." John 6:37

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9

"And I am certain that God, who began a good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on the day when Christ Jesus returns. Philippians 1:6

Jesus' Girl said:

i don’t believe once saved always saved is correct..that justifies a Christian going into an immoral lifestyle and turning to sin.
There is that verse says that there is no more sacrifice for sin. Surely that is what it means?

Click to expand...

The verse you are talking about that states “there is no longer sacrifice for sin” is completely different than your understanding.

If you go back and reread that chapter, what it is talking about is the differences between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant.

In the Old Covenant, the Levitical priesthood made sacrifices for sin among other things.

This is what the verse above that you mentioned is referring to.

Now, after Christ has died, we have the New Covenant in Christ’s blood for the permanent forgiveness of sin. Christ is the High Priest who now Advocates for us directly at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

Since we have the High Priest, note the Capital letters, being God, there is no longer any need for the Levitical priesthood in the New Covenant.

That is what is being explained in that verse, that in Christ, there is No Longer any sacrifices for sin (previously done by the Levitical priesthood with animals).

So that verse has nothing to do with OSAS. Nothing. It is the clarification that there is no longer a Levitical priesthood making animal sacrifice for temporary atonement, because we now have permanent atonement in Christ.

I hope this helps clarify for you. Please ask questions if you have them. I would be happy to add more.

Jesus' Girl said:

i don’t believe once saved always saved is correct..that justifies a Christian going into an immoral lifestyle and turning to sin.
There is that verse says that there is no more sacrifice for sin. Surely that is what it means? It is like sitting at God for His sacrifice to keep on winning and it hurts Him..fair enough if we lose our salvation through constant wilful sin

My problem is what if the sin is either accidental, done in pain or anger ..fear (like lying when cornered) or just sin deliberately because we are human. What I’ve heard we have to repent from this immediately. But I always fall short and return to sins I’m unsure are even sins.

Do we repent on our own effort? I’ve been told you do. This made me feel disappointed and sad.
Repentance means to think differently about your sin and take away anything that is a problem..like a computer for inappropriate content or running from a pub if afriend leads you there...etc..
I had no issue changing attitude in the past..which I believe God did..but I returned to some of those sins..some I was still in but trying my hardest to keep away from them I tried to get rid of the best ones I could by my own but still feel some of them and do them. Such as lying under fear, watching videos that come before Christ...hate....etc. I threw away my dvds, music and stopped watching anime (God took away the interest) as a form of repentance. I even tossed away occult objects which was not hard. But I still had a force.

Thing is there is a strong force which goes against this. I tried on my own strength to get rid of sins I could physically remove something and prayed for attitude sins. But trying repentance on my own requires something I don’t have. I believe my repentance was false a sin I went back to animated stuff, comics and still have the same issues.

Do we still keep saved if we turn back into sin? I don’t want to stay in sin just unsure how to fight the sin when sin is so great when you are sad and it fulfils a void God isn’t filling no matter how much you pray!

Click to expand...

Christ Jesus our Lord says how we are restored.

I like it very simple, so summing up various passages: Help arrives when we confess (truly in our hearts) and turn seeking Him! (this is clear enough to actually be understood by me)

Here's the real repentance and the true situation (not other stuff):

Luke 15 NIV (all the chapter, and the wonderful Parable of the Prodigal)
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 18:9-17 - New International Version

And we are totally forgiven then too!

Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1:5-10 - New International Version

For the ones that continue in there sin and seem to not understand true repentance we need to wonder if they are truly saved?

Self-deception is very common these days.

M-Bob

Jesus' Girl said:

i don’t believe once saved always saved is correct..that justifies a Christian going into an immoral lifestyle and turning to sin.

Click to expand...

My problem is what if the sin is either accidental, done in pain or anger ..fear (like lying when cornered) or just sin deliberately because we are human. What I’ve heard we have to repent from this immediately. But I always fall short and return to sins I’m unsure are even sins. [/QUOTE]

Do we repent on our own effort? I’ve been told you do. This made me feel disappointed and sad. [/QUOTE]



I had no issue changing attitude in the past..which I believe God did..but I returned to some of those sins..some I was still in but trying my hardest to keep away from them I tried to get rid of the best ones I could by my own but still feel some of them and do them.


Do we still keep saved if we turn back into sin? I don’t want to stay in sin just unsure how to fight the sin when sin is so great when you are sad and it fulfils a void God isn’t filling no matter how much you pray![/QUOTE]

Jesus' Girl said:

i don’t believe once saved always saved is correct..that justifies a Christian going into an immoral lifestyle and turning to sin.
There is that verse says that there is no more sacrifice for sin. Surely that is what it means? It is like sitting at God for His sacrifice to keep on winning and it hurts Him..fair enough if we lose our salvation through constant wilful sin

My problem is what if the sin is either accidental, done in pain or anger ..fear (like lying when cornered) or just sin deliberately because we are human. What I’ve heard we have to repent from this immediately. But I always fall short and return to sins I’m unsure are even sins.

Do we repent on our own effort? I’ve been told you do. This made me feel disappointed and sad.
Repentance means to think differently about your sin and take away anything that is a problem..like a computer for inappropriate content or running from a pub if afriend leads you there...etc..
I had no issue changing attitude in the past..which I believe God did..but I returned to some of those sins..some I was still in but trying my hardest to keep away from them I tried to get rid of the best ones I could by my own but still feel some of them and do them. Such as lying under fear, watching videos that come before Christ...hate....etc. I threw away my dvds, music and stopped watching anime (God took away the interest) as a form of repentance. I even tossed away occult objects which was not hard. But I still had a force.

Thing is there is a strong force which goes against this. I tried on my own strength to get rid of sins I could physically remove something and prayed for attitude sins. But trying repentance on my own requires something I don’t have. I believe my repentance was false a sin I went back to animated stuff, comics and still have the same issues.

Do we still keep saved if we turn back into sin? I don’t want to stay in sin just unsure how to fight the sin when sin is so great when you are sad and it fulfils a void God isn’t filling no matter how much you pray!

Click to expand...

If prolonged that would probably be a sign that they were never saved??

One cannot live like the Devil without in the end ending up with the Devil.

For Jesus said if you love me you will keep my Commandments.

M-Bob

Jesus' Girl said:

i don’t believe once saved always saved is correct..that justifies a Christian going into an immoral lifestyle and turning to sin.

Click to expand...

I don't either but one has to go I think a long, long time before God would let go of someone declaring them unsaved. Even then if they had even an inkling to come back we know the story of the prodigal son. The Father wanted and was more than willing to receive them back and would help them do so it they showed an interest.

Jesus' Girl said:

My problem is what if the sin is either accidental, done in pain or anger ..fear (like lying when cornered) or just sin deliberately because we are human. What I’ve heard we have to repent from this immediately. But I always fall short and return to sins I’m unsure are even sins.

Click to expand...

Here's something to consider. I'll claim I believe the Lord showed me this years ago and it really helped. I had sinned and I'll define it as nothing major like robbing a bank or some atrocious thing...but just struggling with the things of the flesh of whatever. Well I approached God saying, "Lord please forgive me your word says you're faithful and just to forgive and to cleanse me etc" And the Lord said (not in an audible voice) but you know what you're feeling in your spirit....

"Sure....I will.....but you know that sin or this or that REALLY isn't you're problem in the most true sense! You're real problem is and what you need to address is to have your spirit filled up and energized with my word where you won't cave into temptation because sins enticing power isn't there. Yes those sins I'll cleanse you and forgive you from BUT they're merely the branches of your problem AND NOT THE ROOT. The root is being built up in your spirit with my presence and the WORD where none of those things are even a temptation, where they'll fall of you like water off a ducks back. Being full of my Spirit and Word the enticing power of temptation from day to day will be gone."

Thus we read about being strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. What I'm reading in this web site is dear people who are feeling half condemned for sin acts they've committed. How they're trying to overcome sin is by mental power and not spiritual strength which they've built inside. This is what Paul meant when he said the things I want to do I do not and the things I don't want to do I do. Romans 7 He wasn't saying one has to stay locked into this position. He went on to say walk in the spirit and you won't walk in the power of the flesh, or sin. It's a daily thing to do what it takes to be strong in the Spirit...Praising him, worshiping him, feeding one's spirit with his word each day and every day...but the victory is in Christ Jesus, and really the things we do daily to stay strong are not things we have to do BUT things we get to do. It's not some horrible chore but a delight. Jesus said my yoke is easy and my burden is light.

Mountainmanbob said:

If prolonged that would probably be a sign that they were never saved??

One cannot live like the Devil without in the end ending up with the Devil.

For Jesus said if you love me you will keep my Commandments.

M-Bob

Click to expand...

What I've found in my life ... is that God will have me work through various areas of sin (i.e. missing His perfect standard) at different times. So, as I grow in Christ, ... this sin falls off, then that sin, etc. As a part of this growth, God will also make me aware of sin in my life that I was not aware of (i.e. that it was sin), ... and then that gets added to the list of things to work on.

So long as the desire is to please God, and thus, sin less and less, I believe that we are in synch with God's desire for His children. Through this process, a particularly vexing sin may endure for a (long) while, ... and even pop back up after we thought we had conquered it. What matters is our general desire and progress toward living as holy as we can.

Bobber said:

Thus we read about being strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. What I'm reading in this web site is dear people who are feeling half condemned for sin acts they've committed. How they're trying to overcome sin is by mental power and not spiritual strength which they've built inside.

Click to expand...

Yes ... the better we maintain ourselves spiritually, the better progress we will make toward laying aside our sin. Constant prayer, study of scripture, fellowship with committed brothers and sisters in Christ, regular worship and communion with the family of God, service and obedience in the areas where we are strong, practicing a loving attitude expressed toward one another, etc. ... will ALL contribute to our spiritual health, and ultimately enable us to set aside the sins that so easily beset us.

I have a Catholic friend who thinks one day he can lose his salvation the next day gain it back again and then next week lose it again.

We had better be careful what day we die on!!!

Does not make sense Jesus said, He will not lose one that the Father has given to Him.

A simple verse that all should take to heart.

M-Bob

Mountainmanbob said:

I have a Catholic friend who thinks one day he can lose his salvation the next day gain it back again and then next week lose it again.

Click to expand...

That's the fallacy in their system.

Hebrews 6 indicates that you cannot bounce in and out of salvation like that.

It seems that one bounce is all you get ...

Jesus' Girl said:

i don’t believe once saved always saved is correct..that justifies a Christian going into an immoral lifestyle and turning to sin.
There is that verse says that there is no more sacrifice for sin. Surely that is what it means? It is like sitting at God for His sacrifice to keep on winning and it hurts Him..fair enough if we lose our salvation through constant wilful sin

My problem is what if the sin is either accidental, done in pain or anger ..fear (like lying when cornered) or just sin deliberately because we are human. What I’ve heard we have to repent from this immediately. But I always fall short and return to sins I’m unsure are even sins.

Do we repent on our own effort? I’ve been told you do. This made me feel disappointed and sad.
Repentance means to think differently about your sin and take away anything that is a problem..like a computer for inappropriate content or running from a pub if afriend leads you there...etc..
I had no issue changing attitude in the past..which I believe God did..but I returned to some of those sins..some I was still in but trying my hardest to keep away from them I tried to get rid of the best ones I could by my own but still feel some of them and do them. Such as lying under fear, watching videos that come before Christ...hate....etc. I threw away my dvds, music and stopped watching anime (God took away the interest) as a form of repentance. I even tossed away occult objects which was not hard. But I still had a force.

Thing is there is a strong force which goes against this. I tried on my own strength to get rid of sins I could physically remove something and prayed for attitude sins. But trying repentance on my own requires something I don’t have. I believe my repentance was false a sin I went back to animated stuff, comics and still have the same issues.

Do we still keep saved if we turn back into sin? I don’t want to stay in sin just unsure how to fight the sin when sin is so great when you are sad and it fulfils a void God isn’t filling no matter how much you pray!

Click to expand...

The gospel really consists of two main things that God does for us. The first is the forgiveness of sins and establishment of a relationship with us. The second is that He creates a new nature inside of us. Most Christians understand the first but not the second. Things such as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self-control, etc. (see Galatians 5:22-23) are NOT things that we try harder to do, they are things that naturally emerge from our life as we grow spiritually. If it was possible to stop all of our sinning through enough repentance, regret, and will-power, being a good Christian would be a matter of getting good at keeping new year's resolutions. In actuality, it is a combination of spiritual growth and God freeing and healing us to be able to walk freely as new creations in Christ that we see our lives transformed over time.

As a matter of practice, some sins are trivial for us to stop. We just get wise to them and don't do them anymore. However, some of them cling to us like flypaper, velcro, or burdock or have been embedded in us for so long that they've become part of us. These are often not things we can get rid of by simply trying harder. They are things that God wants to deal with and heal and free us from. Often, those things are symptoms of a deeper problem. For example, a person with a broken leg cannot freely run, jump, and dance. The problem is not lack of effort or not having the right crutches; the problem is the broken leg. Many of us become Christians with spiritual and emotional wounds and injuries inside of that require God's healing. Some of those besetting sins and compulsive things we cannot beat with our own efforts require God to do something inside of us first. Limping, not dancing, and having trouble walking (figuratively speaking) may not be signs of lack of willpower and sincerity but rather that we have things buried inside of us that God needs to heal or free us from.

Sometimes we get hung up on worrying about a particular sin rather than focusing on what God wants us to focus on in our life. As we follow Him, He will guide us in paths and directions that we will spiritual grow and mature as well as be freed from things that have us in bondage.

There are a lot more details than that, but I hope to convey the big picture that changes in our life primarily come about because God is transforming us as we follow Him, not because we stoke up enough repentance and will-power to force ourselves to change. Being free from a sin is not a matter of learning to fight it successfully; it is a matter of it having no hold on us. A person addicted to alcohol can fight it by having people around who help them have no access to it. They can stop the drinking, but they are still slaves to it. A person free from an addiction to alcohol can walk past a bar without a problem because they don't care about alcohol anymore.

Jesus' Girl said:

My problem is what if the sin is either accidental, done in pain or anger ..fear (like lying when cornered) or just sin deliberately because we are human.

Click to expand...

I think the Catholics have good insight into this question. Only mortal sins are a salvation issue. Thinking that the smallest oversight is a mortal sin putting your salvation at risk is just plain silly.

jesus316 said:

I think the Catholics have good insight into this question. Only mortal sins are a salvation issue. Thinking that the smallest oversight is a mortal sin putting your salvation at risk is just plain silly.

Click to expand...

That’s not in the Bible though so that’s their opinion.

I've been curious of this as well, in regards to my father who lost his way. I feel his bond to the Lord is greater that, if he were on his deathbed, I'm almost certain he'd make amends then (but I really hope he finds himself reconciling before it gets to that point). He was a very upright, faithful man who'd accepted Jesus before I was born, around the time my parents met. He'd minister in church and was very stern in his beliefs and my upbringing. Yet lost his way, had an affair, and ran off with another woman. He's never made amends with us or reconciled with his faith since then, but I keep hoping someday he will. I also believe God continually chases us down, i.e. the 1 sheep of the 100, leaves the 99. He won't let us be lost to ourselves or our sins, once we've accepted Him, He remains with us, though he won't honor our sin or sinful way of life (in my dad's case, his affair). So I'm hopeful my father will reconcile at some point.

Jesus' Girl said:

i don’t believe once saved always saved is correct..that justifies a Christian going into an immoral lifestyle and turning to sin.
There is that verse says that there is no more sacrifice for sin. Surely that is what it means? It is like sitting at God for His sacrifice to keep on winning and it hurts Him..fair enough if we lose our salvation through constant wilful sin

My problem is what if the sin is either accidental, done in pain or anger ..fear (like lying when cornered) or just sin deliberately because we are human. What I’ve heard we have to repent from this immediately. But I always fall short and return to sins I’m unsure are even sins.

Do we repent on our own effort? I’ve been told you do. This made me feel disappointed and sad.
Repentance means to think differently about your sin and take away anything that is a problem..like a computer for inappropriate content or running from a pub if afriend leads you there...etc..
I had no issue changing attitude in the past..which I believe God did..but I returned to some of those sins..some I was still in but trying my hardest to keep away from them I tried to get rid of the best ones I could by my own but still feel some of them and do them. Such as lying under fear, watching videos that come before Christ...hate....etc. I threw away my dvds, music and stopped watching anime (God took away the interest) as a form of repentance. I even tossed away occult objects which was not hard. But I still had a force.

Thing is there is a strong force which goes against this. I tried on my own strength to get rid of sins I could physically remove something and prayed for attitude sins. But trying repentance on my own requires something I don’t have. I believe my repentance was false a sin I went back to animated stuff, comics and still have the same issues.

Do we still keep saved if we turn back into sin? I don’t want to stay in sin just unsure how to fight the sin when sin is so great when you are sad and it fulfils a void God isn’t filling no matter how much you pray!

Click to expand...

I gave a similar answer to someone who asked the same question.

I honestly don't know. I don't know if anyone knows. This is such a super difficult thing.

For example, the Bible says in crystal clear language, that if you are screwing people you are not married to, then you are not going to Heaven. 1 Corr 6:9

If you are sleeping with your boyfriend, or girlfriend, you are not going to Heaven.

We know people who claim.... they say.... that they are Christian. Yet they are shacking up and sleeping with people they are not married to.

So how we reconcile that? Were they never Christian to begin with? Or were they Christian and now they lost their Christianity? Is there an exemption for people who are saved, and then fall back?

I don't know. These types of questions are way above my pay grade. My $12/hour doesn't cover this level of theology.

And honestly, I don't know if anyone knows the answer for sure.

I think the best answer is.....

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Better to just fear doing it wrong, and live right. Then you don't have to worry about it. Right girl? We can agree on that together, can't we? Isn't that what your signature is all about?

"Even so, Lord Jesus come"

But if we live in fear of the Lord, and walk in wisdom, we can say 'Even so, Lord Jesus come" and not have to worry about it. You and me babe, I suggest we live this way. Maybe someday we'll learn the answer to that question, but if not, I say we just follow that plan and 'even so, Lord Jesus come'.