LDS Mormon Religion "...come unto me and have everlasting life"

He is the way · Apr 22, 2018

(New Testament | James 4:17)

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

In the parable of the good Samaritan some people sinned because they knew to do good and did it not. They did not truly love their neighbor. True Christians repent and sin no more:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

He is the way · Apr 22, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
Attending a church with a certain name does not make that church the one Christ established. Do you know how many names your church has had?

He is the way said:
It is important to believe in and adhere to the true doctrines of Jesus Christ:
(New Testament | Matthew 25:32 - 46)

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

twin.spin · Apr 22, 2018

withwonderingawe said:
What I meant was I'm sorry you have been miss informed about what Mormons believe. I think a lot of it is our own fault. Most Mormon writers and speakers are addressing the Mormon community, speaking to the choir. It is assumed they have all read the Book of Mormon and know one of the many passages which say;

"I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save." 2 Nephi 31

I'm afraid they start in talking about judgement day and being judged by our works without thinking of how that might sound to the outside world who have never read the Book of Mormon. When it says you are saved by grace 'after all you can do' it sounds like we are trying to chalk up brownie points. The passage needs to be put into context before it can be understood with Nephi's real intent.

I appreciate that you feel that previous attempts by Mormon writers including former living LDS prophets hadn't expressed themselves in such a way that those currently in the LDS need to clarify their statements.

I however take what they wrote \ spoke in a sermon or is currently found in the Ensign has enough specificity for people to determine what Mormons beliefs are and what they are not.

As much as you want " saved by grace after all you can do" come to mean something other than what it states very plainly, it means what it says ... grace comes after "chalk up brownie points"

“No one else is responsible for your personal journey. The Savior will help you and prepare the way before you, but the commitment to follow Him and keep His commandments must come from you. That is your sole burden, your sole privilege. This is your great adventure. Please heed the call of your Savior. Follow Him” (Ensign, November 2017, p. 24)

“This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts” (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

Biblical Christianity says Jesus’ main teaching was that he came to do everything for our salvation. The essence of being a disciple, therefore, is believing and trusting this. That is what Jesus himself said. (John 10: 25-27)

Rescued One · Apr 22, 2018

He is the way said:
(New Testament | James 4:17)

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

In the parable of the good Samaritan some people sinned because they knew to do good and did it not. They did not truly love their neighbor. True Christians repent and sin no more:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Christian A true Christian desires to be free from sin.jpg

New Birth:
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Rescued One · Apr 22, 2018

Matthew 25
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Ephesians 2
1As for you, you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience.…

John 10
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them...

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

withwonderingawe · Apr 22, 2018

truefiction1 said:
I'm beginning to realize that much of the character of Mormonism may have something to do with a general inability to grasp the deep meanings of metaphorical language, along with a general failure to be able to distinguish between what is meant to be understood metaphorically and what is meant literally.

You hit the nail on the head. The problem with the Trinity is that it relies totally on metaphors.

In Deut 4 Moses warns Israel
27 And the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, andye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the Lord shall lead you.

28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands,wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear,
nor eat, nor smell.

To Moses God was a living God, he could see, hear and smell because he had a living body which could do those things. The most interesting point there is God eats, can you explain to me how an immaterial substances eats.

In Mormon Theology God the Father and Yahweh/Jesus are both in the Garden, thus the "man has become as one of us. However once Adam and Eve partake of the fruit they are cut off from the Father's presence and from that time forth only Yahweh appears to mankind.

But Yahweh/Jesus is the mediator or agent of the Father and often speaks as if he is the Father. It's a culture thing within the Jewish norms. A son can speak as if he is his father and he carries all the legal authority of his father.

The Father does not appear to anyone, at least there is no record of it until Stephen is stoned.

Job said
25 For I know that my redeemer/Jesus/Yahweh liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God/'elowahh:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold,....

Job understood their were two separate Gods and he fully expect to see with his own eyes Elowahh after the resurrection.

and the Savior promised the pure in heart they shall see God.

and he said
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

now it does say
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he
hath declared him.

and in Heb 12 it says "14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord"

as we draw closer to Jesus we become holy, and we will be worthy to see God.

In John 14 it says;
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

truefiction1 · Apr 22, 2018

withwonderingawe said:
You realize don't you that you just added to the Bible? There is no footnote which says this is only a manifestation!

I added nothing the the Bible that isn't metaphorically shown in the Bible. That God is both essence and energy flowing from the essence is metaphorically revealed in Sacred Scripture. Scripture heavily reveals things of God metaphorically.

truefiction1 · Apr 22, 2018

withwonderingawe said:
You hit the nail on the head. The problem with the Trinity is that it relies totally on metaphors.

In Deut 4 Moses warns Israel
27 And the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, andye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the Lord shall lead you.

28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands,wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear,
nor eat, nor smell.

To Moses God was a living God, he could see, hear and smell because he had a living body which could do those things. The most interesting point there is God eats, can you explain to me how an immaterial substances eats.

In Mormon Theology God the Father and Yahweh/Jesus are both in the Garden, thus the "man has become as one of us. However once Adam and Eve partake of the fruit they are cut off from the Father's presence and from that time forth only Yahweh appears to mankind.

But Yahweh/Jesus is the mediator or agent of the Father and often speaks as if he is the Father. It's a culture thing within the Jewish norms. A son can speak as if he is his father and he carries all the legal authority of his father.

The Father does not appear to anyone, at least there is no record of it until Stephen is stoned.

Job said
25 For I know that my redeemer/Jesus/Yahweh liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God/'elowahh:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold,....

Job understood their were two separate Gods and he fully expect to see with his own eyes Elowahh after the resurrection.

and the Savior promised the pure in heart they shall see God.

and he said
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

now it does say
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he
hath declared him.

and in Heb 12 it says "14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord"

as we draw closer to Jesus we become holy, and we will be worthy to see God.

In John 14 it says;
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Here is where Mormon theology misses the mark: The Son reveals the Father to the faithful - but not by literally showing them the father. The Son reveals the Father because He is the Word of the Father

He is the way said:
[quote-He is the way]Yes the Bible does have many metaphors. That is why we need to look at the context of the verse:
(Old Testament | Genesis 32:30)

30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
(Old Testament | Exodus 33:11)

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend......

Afterward Jacob stated and my life is preserved. He must have known that not everyone was able to see the face of God and live. Moses said as a man speaketh unto his friend. How would he speak to his friend face to face and that be a metaphor?

Seeing God "face to face" is a metaphorical manner of speaking of a spiritual encounter with the fullness of God (the Father), through His Word, in the Holy Spirit. It does not mean that they beheld God's essence, which is not able to be beheld, or seen. The Bible says so: "no one has ever seen God, nor can see Him" (1 Timothy 6:16).

Mormon theology is not shaped by Scripture, so much, but on an alleged sighting of God the Father in humanoid form by Joseph Smith. God the Word became flesh and He, being the Word of the invisible God, reveals the Father:

"Philip said to Him, 'Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.'

Jesus replied, 'Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—or at least believe on account of the works themselves."
(John 14:8-11)

Mormon theology, being based upon the teachings of Joseph Smith and his disciples, and not as much on Scripture, is interfering with the proper understanding of the teachings of the Word of God.

truefiction1 · Apr 22, 2018

withwonderingawe said:
You hit the nail on the head. The problem with the Trinity is that it relies totally on metaphors.

In Deut 4 Moses warns Israel
27 And the Lord shall scatter you among the nations, andye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the Lord shall lead you.

28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands,wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear,
nor eat, nor smell.

To Moses God was a living God, he could see, hear and smell because he had a living body which could do those things. The most interesting point there is God eats, can you explain to me how an immaterial substances eats.

In Mormon Theology God the Father and Yahweh/Jesus are both in the Garden, thus the "man has become as one of us. However once Adam and Eve partake of the fruit they are cut off from the Father's presence and from that time forth only Yahweh appears to mankind.

But Yahweh/Jesus is the mediator or agent of the Father and often speaks as if he is the Father. It's a culture thing within the Jewish norms. A son can speak as if he is his father and he carries all the legal authority of his father.

The Father does not appear to anyone, at least there is no record of it until Stephen is stoned.

Job said
25 For I know that my redeemer/Jesus/Yahweh liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God/'elowahh:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold,....

Job understood their were two separate Gods and he fully expect to see with his own eyes Elowahh after the resurrection.

and the Savior promised the pure in heart they shall see God.

and he said
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

now it does say
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he
hath declared him.

and in Heb 12 it says "14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord"

as we draw closer to Jesus we become holy, and we will be worthy to see God.

In John 14 it says;
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Yahweh is the Father, the Word of the Father, and the Spirit of the Father -- One God. The Father is Yahweh, the Word (Son) is Yahweh, and the Holy Spirit is Yahweh.

No man hath seen Yahweh at any time (this includes Moses, and Jacob, and anybody else who "saw God face to face"), nor can anyone ever see Yahweh (1 Timothy 6:16). The only way to see the Father is by seeing the Son, in the Holy Spirit. The Father has no visible form just as the Spirit has no visible form. Only the Son became flesh, and it is only through knowing the Son that we can know the Father: "the only Begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him." (John 1:18)

And I can explain how an invisible God eats: the invisible God eats "metaphorically", not literally. Jesus is a man in addition to being invisible God, and He, being a man, can eat metaphorically:

But He told them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

the disciples asked one another, “Could someone have brought Him food?”

Jesus explained, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work." (John 4:32-34)

If Jesus, being a man, can eat metaphorically, then why not the invisible God?

There are many anthropomorphisms used in depicting God in the highly metaphorical language of the Bible. Still, God is spirit whose essence can neither be seen, beheld, or fathomed by anyone whom God creates. The Bible says so in 1 Timothy 6:16). The anthropomorphisms of God are metaphors for spiritual phenomenon.

Mormon theology, being based upon the teachings of Joseph Smith and his disciples, and not as much on Scripture, is interfering with the proper understanding of the teachings of the Word of God.

He is the way · Apr 22, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
View attachment 226710
New Birth:
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
View attachment 226711

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

He is the way said:
I would hate to see you fall from grace. Once a person receives the grace of God they should NOT sin:

(New Testament | Romans 6:1 - 23)

1 WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus said sin no more:

(New Testament | John 5:14)

14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
(New Testament | John 8:11)

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
(New Testament | Hebrews 10:26)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Jane_Doe · Apr 22, 2018

One big picture thing here:

People have different views on Gospel topics, which Bible passages are to be taken literally and which metaphorically. Different schools of thought are well researched, and have different results. Ultimately, confirmation of the Truthfulness of any facet is going to come from the Holy Spirit's witness, not us playing Bible-ping-pong.

Rescued One · Apr 22, 2018

He is the way said:
I would hate to see you fall...

A Mormon worries that a sheep will fall from grace. A Christian follows the Shepherd not a stranger. When there's trouble the Good Shepherd doesn't run away; He protects His sheep. The only ones who run away are wolves in sheep's clothing, sometimes goats.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

John 10:5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

He is the way said:
I would hate to see you fall...

Blessed Assurance!

Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and,
lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Rescued One · Apr 22, 2018

He is the way said:
Once a person receives the grace of God they should NOT sin:

1 John 1
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

He is the way · Apr 22, 2018

He is the way said:
I agree with the scriptures you post. Jesus Christ is the way to salvation. Without Him there would be no salvation. That being said, we don't get to pick and choose the scriptures we will obey and the ones we don't like. Jesus gave us the law for a reason. He said:

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16 - 20)

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

He is the way · Apr 22, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
A Mormon worries that a sheep will fall from grace. A Christian follows the Shepherd not a stranger. When there's trouble the Good Shepherd doesn't run away; He protects His sheep. The only ones who run away are wolves in sheep's clothing, sometimes goats.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

John 10:5
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

View attachment 226743
Blessed Assurance!

Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and,
lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

He is the way said:
We should indeed worry about the lost sheep and bring them back to the fold:

(New Testament | Luke 15:4 - 7)

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Rescued One · Apr 22, 2018

Matthew 5
16Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Thank you for posting those lovely verses!

Rescued One · Apr 22, 2018

He is the way said:
We should indeed worry about the lost sheep and bring them back to the fold:

3And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 4What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? 5And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. 7I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

God is more powerful than I am and I KNOW (by the Holy Spirit) that He won't abandon His sheep! I posted the verses.

We shouldn't worry that the Good Shepherd was telling lies. We trust Him!

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Trusting God is AMAZING!

truefiction1 · Apr 22, 2018

Jane_Doe said:
One big picture thing here:

People have different views on Gospel topics, which Bible passages are to be taken literally and which metaphorically. Different schools of thought are well researched, and have different results. Ultimately, confirmation of the Truthfulness of any facet is going to come from the Holy Spirit's witness, not us playing Bible-ping-pong.

I agree, 100%.

The Holy Spirit bears witness to who the saints are by revealing things they've done, and could not have done except by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit reveals these things to others, who are also saints, so that they may know that they are of the True Faith. The Holy Spirit also bears witness with our own spirit that we are the children of the invisible Father through our faith in Jesus Christ. This is how the Life in Christ is for the everyday Orthodox saints, with the heavenly sweet fragrance of miraculous myrrh gushing icons, regular miracles of physical healing, the true clairvoyance and prophetic capabilities of spiritual elders, and the abundant grace and Love of the martyrs -- both those who carry out their living martyrdom and those who are tortured and die for the Love of God and for Love of all others. The Orthodox Christian Church centuries, from the time of Christ til today, bear witness to the Truth of her doctrines and practices, as she contains the fullness of Truth. This is by the Lord Who is the Holy Spirit.

We have experience of all such things above, and of the irrefutable presence of the Living God among us and performing His work in our midst. This is how we know what is meant in the sayings of Holy Scripture. Our saints see visions, and prophecy things that no one could know but by the Holy Spirit. They do not, however, nor can they recover the Truth that has always been with us and was never lost in the first place, nor do they nor can they form new faiths more suited to a new world. The Truth is never changing, and has been in the Church, His body, since Christ established it at Pentecost.

Everyone seeking the fullness of Communion with God really wants to be in the Orthodox Church, many of them just don't know it -- yet.

mmksparbud · Apr 22, 2018

Phoebe Ann said:
View attachment 226710
New Birth:
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
View attachment 226711

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

For 28 very tumultuous years, I prayed for my alcoholic husband to give his heart to Jesus. For the past 9 weeks he was very sick, several times almost died--including 1 cardiac arrest. He was at times delusional from high ammonia levels due to his liver failing. I kept praying for what I called the 5 S's.
!. Sanity
2. Saved
3. Sober
4. Smoke free
5. Soon.
Then he started going into renal failure. At that point, on this Thurs, 4-19-18--at 2pm. He came home under hospice, finally lucid. First thing he asked for was a smooch, 2nd was a coke, third -- prayer. He deteriorated slowly. On Fri. I asked him to give his heart to God, he said he didn't know how--I led him in the sinners prayer as best I could and he repeated after me, then all of a sudden he took off in prayer on his own and he accepted Jesus and gave his heart to him. It was before the morphine, so it was not drug induced. I sang hymns to him and stroked his hair, he looked at me and said "beautiful."---his breathing became more labored and he got morphine and Ativan and calmed a little then I held him in my arms and he died at 8pm.
I have been fluctuating between tears and laughter. Tears for loosing him, and laughter-- I laugh and spit in the face of Satan for he no longer has him!! He can not do one single thing to him ever again. Satan had him for 65 years, God and I have him for eternity!! As hard as those 28 years were---for the moment when he gave his heart to Jesus--I would gladly go through again. It seems as nothing. I know that the next thing he will know is the moment Christ returns and wakes him up and I get him back, as the man I always knew he was and as God intended.
I also got my prayer answered for my stepdaughter and I to be reunited. She and her husband got divorced. He became a very mean alcoholic and she had to leave him. All this time I thought they were happily married going to their Mormon temple---wrong. She is till Mormon, but wavering a little. We are loving friends again and I am so thankful.
I also got my prayer answered for another friend, a little Haitian I was like a mother to reconnect with me. She'd had 9 hard years and learned last year her husband has a 1 year old child with another woman. She is now in the process of trying to leave him. She had told no one but her dad and brother and of course the 3 kids knew. I knew there was something wrong when she and some other church friends came to see me---she never could hide her emotions from me. She called me last night and I asked her point blank how her marriage was and she finally let go. She couldn't believe I knew there was something wrong after so long apart. I have a mother's heart towards her, I know her.
God has answered every prayer--I am joyful, grateful, humbled and still, at times, a little sad for the loss of my husband.

Rescued One · Apr 22, 2018

mmksparbud said:
For 28 very tumultuous years, I prayed for my alcoholic husband to give his heart to Jesus. For the past 9 weeks he was very sick, several times almost died--including 1 cardiac arrest. He was at times delusional from high ammonia levels due to his liver failing. I kept praying for what I called the 5 S's.
!. Sanity
2. Saved
3. Sober
4. Smoke free
5. Soon.
Then he started going into renal failure. At that point, on this Thurs, 4-19-18--at 2pm. He came home under hospice, finally lucid. First thing he asked for was a smooch, 2nd was a coke, third -- prayer. He deteriorated slowly. On Fri. I asked him to give his heart to God, he said he didn't know how--I led him in the sinners prayer as best I could and he repeated after me, then all of a sudden he took off in prayer on his own and he accepted Jesus and gave his heart to him. It was before the morphine, so it was not drug induced. I sang hymns to him and stroked his hair, he looked at me and said "beautiful."---his breathing became more labored and he got morphine and Ativan and calmed a little then I held him in my arms and he died at 8pm.
I have been fluctuating between tears and laughter. Tears for loosing him, and laughter-- I laugh and spit in the face of Satan for he no longer has him!! He can not do one single thing to him ever again. Satan had him for 65 years, God and I have him for eternity!! As hard as those 28 years were---for the moment when he gave his heart to Jesus--I would gladly go through again. It seems as nothing. I know that the next thing he will know is the moment Christ returns and wakes him up and I get him back, as the man I always knew he was and as God intended.
I also got my prayer answered for my stepdaughter and I to be reunited. She and her husband got divorced. He became a very mean alcoholic and she had to leave him. All this time I thought they were happily married going to their Mormon temple---wrong. She is till Mormon, but wavering a little. We are loving friends again and I am so thankful.
I also got my prayer answered for another friend, a little Haitian I was like a mother to reconnect with me. She'd had 9 hard years and learned last year her husband has a 1 year old child with another woman. She is now in the process of trying to leave him. She had told no one but her dad and brother and of course the 3 kids knew. I knew there was something wrong when she and some other church friends came to see me---she never could hide her emotions from me. She called me last night and I asked her point blank how her marriage was and she finally let go. She couldn't believe I knew there was something wrong after so long apart. I have a mother's heart towards her, I know her.
God has answered every prayer--I am joyful, grateful, humbled and still, at times, a little sad for the loss of my husband.

Praise God for all the blessings. My love and prayers are with you in the loss of your husband. I know what that's like. I'm grateful that you were at his side and that he wanted to be with the Savior!

LDS Mormon Religion "...come unto me and have everlasting life"

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Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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Fool

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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