SALVATION offered by Jesus: COMPLETED and IRREVOCABLE

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Grip Docility

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Are you saying, 'it is finished' with me? If so, what was paid in full?

When Jesus said He finished the work the Father gave Him, does that mean it's paid in full?

If Jesus said He finished the work before the cross, what work was left to do?

______________________________________________

"Human Wisdom, when asked, 'What shall be done with the sinner?' replieth, 'Evil pursueth sinners' (Prov. xiii. 21).

Prophecy, when asked, 'What shall be done with the sinner?' replieth, 'The soul that sinneth, it shall die' (Ezek. xviii. 4).

The Law, when asked, 'What shall be done with the sinner?' replieth, 'Let him bring a guilt-offering and the priest shall atone for him' (Lev. i. 4 [Hebr.]).

God himself, when asked, 'What shall be done with the sinner?' replieth, 'Let him repent, and he will be atoned for; was it not said: "Good and upright is the Lord: therefore will he teach sinners in the way of repentance" (Psalms xxv. 8). For, my children, what do I require of you? "Seek me and live"'

(ATONEMENT - JewishEncyclopedia.com)

1 John 2:2

But you don’t like that verse.

Look up what Propitiation means! But you don’t care! You want to (Isaiah 14:14)

I Love you M8... but you’re trying to break in to Heaven!
 
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justbyfaith

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What did Jesus preach and what did He tell His disciples to preach?

Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luke 20:1
And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Luke 9:2
And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

Luke 9:6
And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

You get the idea. The gospel, repentance, and the kingdom were preached by Jesus and His disciples. Not once was the cross and His crucifixion preached, not even a hint of it. Looking at Luke 24 again, we see it was the same message after His death, with no mention of preaching the cross.

Luke 24
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
How did Christ primarily suffer. Was it not ON THE CROSS?
 
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justbyfaith

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Accept the facts, don't bury your head in the sand. There is forgiveness of sins without the shedding of blood. The Hebrews writer was wrong.

But, I'll ask you, is there forgiveness without the shedding of blood?
What does Hebrews 9:22 say? What, you don't believe that ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God? You have an issue with the Bible and you have an issue with God. In Psalms 138:2 God says that He has magnified His word above all His name. God is both Sovereign and Loving, and He constructed the canon of scripture as He pleased.
 
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justbyfaith

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Grip, I noticed you haven't said anything about the Day of Atonement. We would love to hear what you think it is, and how a cross was instituted into this Jewish ritual. Maybe I've missed where a death on a cross was used in this ritual.
See Hebrews 10. It shows that the blood of goats and calves, as was shed on the day of atonement, can never take away sins. But Jesus dying on the Cross for us does avail to take away our sins. Compare 1 John 3:5, Hebrews 10:14. Look specifically at Hebrews 10:1-14 and meditate on what it would teach you.
 
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justbyfaith

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They didn't have anything to with one's sins being forgiven? Really?

Matthew 9:2
And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

Luke 7:48
And he said unto her, thy sins are forgiven.

What is this talking about if not forgiveness of sins? This very specific about forgiveness of sins, and without a cross, blood, or sacrifice.
Jesus is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Revelation 13:8. All forgiveness is predicated on His blood being shed. Hebrews 9:22.
 
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Grip Docility

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Jesus is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Revelation 13:8. All forgiveness is predicated on His blood being shed. Hebrews 9:22.

AMEN @justbyfaith ...

There’s the rigid defense of our Lord, God and Saviors work on the cross that I knew was deep within you... and detected in all of our discussions.

I’m Smiling!!!

All Love to you, Brother in Him.
 
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Grip Docility

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No. Grip knows he said it; that is good enough for me.

Seek yourself while you are able. Do not be idle as one who desires not to work (Proverbs 19:15).



If you are able to see what I do or don't do, please tell us all what is in my heart.



All OT saints disagree with you. But then, who knows, you don't think they are saved.

Sir,

I said Faith the size of a mustard seed can “move mountains”.
 
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FreeGrace2

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I said:
" But then, you're not reading my posts."
If you are able to see what I do or don't do, please tell us all what is in my heart.
One only has to read your 'responses' to know what was read or not.

All OT saints disagree with you.
How do you know? Did you take a survey of ALL of them? Nonsense. In fact, the OT disagrees with you. As does the NT.

But then, who knows, you don't think they are saved.
Once again making judgments from a position of ignorance.

Everyone who believed in the coming Messiah was saved.
 
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FreeGrace2

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No where is it said that those who claim to be a Christian are considered to be His disciples; this is another man-made doctrine.
I wasn't stating any doctrine, but what is "considered". Again, evidence that you don't read my posts.

The Greek word for 'disciple' is student, follower, learner. It seems you don't believe that those who are Christians aren't students, followers, or learners of Jesus Christ.

But, clearly, from your own posts, it is clear that you've neither followed nor learned from Him.
 
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FreeGrace2

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EmSw said:
No. Grip knows he said it; that is good enough for me.
Sir,

I said Faith the size of a mustard seed can “move mountains”.
Exactly!

I keep seeing clear evidence that our posts are not being read.
 
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EmSw

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Sir,

I said Faith the size of a mustard seed can “move mountains”.

Here is post #1753 -

I asked this -
Oh ye of little faith. How much faith does one need to be saved?

You replied -
Well...

Faith the size of a mustard seed can move “mountains”...

Did you answer my question or not?

I you didn't, then please answer now. How much faith does one need to be saved? FG2 will not touch this question.
 
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EmSw

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I said:
" But then, you're not reading my posts."

One only has to read your 'responses' to know what was read or not.


How do you know? Did you take a survey of ALL of them? Nonsense. In fact, the OT disagrees with you. As does the NT.


Once again making judgments from a position of ignorance.

Everyone who believed in the coming Messiah was saved.

Where did you find this? You will have to show from the OT this is the way to be saved. If you can't find it, I will show you how they were saved.
 
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EmSw

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I wasn't stating any doctrine, but what is "considered". Again, evidence that you don't read my posts.

The Greek word for 'disciple' is student, follower, learner. It seems you don't believe that those who are Christians aren't students, followers, or learners of Jesus Christ.

But, clearly, from your own posts, it is clear that you've neither followed nor learned from Him.

Even you say one is a Christian by what he does. Can you show me a Christian who doesn't follow or learn of Jesus?

Next I will ask, can someone who is not a Christian have eternal life?
 
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EmSw

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Jesus is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Revelation 13:8. All forgiveness is predicated on His blood being shed. Hebrews 9:22.

Question - If the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, why in the world did the Jews offer sin-offerings and sacrifices? Was the slain Lamb not sufficient?

Whoever wrote Hebrews did not give you all of Leviticus 17 concerning blood. Do you know what was involved with blood sacrifices? Someone can take one verse and make a doctrine of it; do you think this is right to make doctrines this way?

8 “Also you shall say to them: ‘Whatever man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell among you, who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice,
9 and does not bring it to the door of the tabernacle of meeting, to offer it to the Lord, that man shall be cut off from among his people.
10 ‘And whatever man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell among you, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood, and will cut him off from among his people.
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.
12 Therefore I said to the children of Israel, ‘No one among you shall eat blood, nor shall any stranger who dwells among you eat blood.’


Now tell us how Jesus' death correlated with this. Did the guilty party bring Jesus to the door of the tabernacle of meeting? Did he offer Jesus to the Lord? If not, that man is cut off from among the people.

Was Jesus' blood offered upon the altar to make atonement? One cannot take only part of the atonement sacrifice and think it is done according to God's word.

The woman caught in adultery was forgiven and no blood was shed. Do you believe this? If you do, how do you say ALL FORGIVENESS is predicated on His blood being shed?
 
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Grip Docility

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Here is post #1753 -

I asked this -
Oh ye of little faith. How much faith does one need to be saved?

You replied -
Well...

Faith the size of a mustard seed can move “mountains”...

Did you answer my question or not?

I you didn't, then please answer now. How much faith does one need to be saved? FG2 will not touch this question.

Sir,

It’s over. You blaspheme the cross of Christ.

Please shelf myself as a participant in your questions or answers.

I am sincere... you willingly belittle the cross.

Thank you.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Here is post #1753 -

I asked this -
Oh ye of little faith. How much faith does one need to be saved?

You replied -
Well...

Faith the size of a mustard seed can move “mountains”...

Did you answer my question or not?
It is clear he was speaking of moving mountains.

I you didn't, then please answer now. How much faith does one need to be saved? FG2 will not touch this question.
I did answer. Your comment here is just disingenuous.

I answered not with an amount, but with the quality of faith, or what is to be believed.

Saving faith isn't measured by any kind of amount. It is measured by what the object of that faith is, and the purpose of that faith.

So, one must have the RIGHT object of faith, and the RIGHT purpose of faith in order to be saved.

If you disagree, then please state in your own words what "saving faith" means to you.
 
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FreeGrace2

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Where did you find this? You will have to show from the OT this is the way to be saved. If you can't find it, I will show you how they were saved.
I found it in all that Paul wrote about what he preached about.

Moses and the Prophets regarding salvation through faith in Christ

Luke 24:27, 44 - 27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. 44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Luke 16:29,30,31 - 29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 “ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

John 1:45 - Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

John 5 - 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

John 6:45 - It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

John 12:34 - The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”

John 20:9- (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)

Acts 3:22,23,24 - 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’ 24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days.

Acts 9:22 - Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah. [obviously from the OT]

Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Acts 13:27, 29 - 27 -The people of Jerusalem and their rulers did not recognize Jesus, yet in condemning him they fulfilled the words of the prophets that are read every Sabbath. 29 - When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the cross and laid him in a tomb.

Acts 13:39 - Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

Acts 15:5,10 - 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? [this shows that the Law of Moses didn’t save]

Acts 17:2,3,11 - 2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said. 11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Acts 18:28 - For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.

Acts 24:14,24 - 14 However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, 24 Several days later Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish. He sent for Paul and listened to him as he spoke about faith in Christ Jesus.

Acts 26:6,7,22,23 - 6 And now it is because of my hope in what God has promised our ancestors that I am on trial today. 7 This is the promise our twelve tribes are hoping to see fulfilled as they earnestly serve God day and night. King Agrippa, it is because of this hope that these Jews are accusing me. 22 But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen— 23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

Acts 28:23 - They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.

Rom 1:2 - the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures

Rom 3:20-22 - 20 Therefore, no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Rom 3:27,28 27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

All these verses support my views and refute your views.

When the verse mentions "Scripture" it obvious means the OT, since Paul wrote most of the NT.
 
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Even you say one is a Christian by what he does.
If you had been reading my posts, you'd have known that I have NEVER said such a thing.

So, let me school you on what I say. One is a Christian by what he believes.

Can you show me a Christian who doesn't follow or learn of Jesus?
If you have ever placed your faith alone in Christ alone for salvation alone, then you are one prime example, for what you now claim.

Next I will ask, can someone who is not a Christian have eternal life?
Nope. The only way to have eternal life is to be given it, since it is a free gift (Rom 6:23).

And the only One who gives this free gift is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself (John 10:28).
 
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