Where really is God’s true church ?

disciple Clint said:

Hi TuxAme, The truth is that there is not a church that exists on this earth that has not been corrupted by man. I appreciate your faith in the Catholic church but it has been just as corrupted with false doctrine as all the other churches have. I don’t think you could even get the Pope to say that the Catholic church is perfect in all things and all teachings. Catholic church history stands as proof that it too has had regretful moments that required correction. There are truths of theology that we are not going to know for certain until we stand before God. Blessings Clint

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If the gates of Hell can't prevail against Jesus' Church, what makes you think that man can?

The Church has to be infallible, not impeccable. According to your logic, we should abandon Jesus and seek other faiths simply because He was betrayed by Judas.

Gracia Singh said:

Not saying that there are not holy, fruitful Christians elsewhere. Just that the Church that Christ founded can not disagree with itself on everything from Christology to human sexual ethics, to soteriology, ecclesiology, gender roles, sacraments, authority, Scripture, and what happens to the soul after death. There is just no way.

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Jesus founded a church, but that church was killed by Romans. The Romans which turned into the Catholic church killed those that kept the ways Jesus instructed them in.

The true church kept Passover, the feasts, and Torah. Rome slaughtered all of those found keeping Torah however. Aka: the Roman Catholic church.

It's a common misconception that Jesus started the rcc, but research into early church history, and the history of the rcc will quickly show you otherwise.

TuxAme said:

There is only one Church out there- if any- that perfectly teaches God's truth. We should all strive to be in the Church that He wants us in, and it's wrong to believe that God desires Sean to be a Catholic, Delilah to be a Methodist, José to be an Anglican, etc. God wants us to be in nothing short of perfect communion with Him, and this simply can't be accomplished if you're not in the Church that He wants you in.

If God founded the Pentecostal church, then He certainly doesn't want us to be Episcopalian. If He founded the Baptist church, then He doesn't want us to be Presbyterian.

We need to have this conversation because souls are at stake.

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I am not entirely certain I follow your argument, unless you are suggesting that we should all be in communion with the Patriarch of Jerusalem, or maybe Antioch? I see he calls us to be faithful, to follow, to take up our cross, to break the bread of life, to preach, to baptise, to love one another, to wash the feet of friend and stranger, to be reconciled to him.

I do think in the garden Jesus prayed that we might all be one. What shape and form that unity takes or aspires to in the here and now is sometimes sad, and indeed in my own communion we have a great deal of sadness on this very point, and whilst we hold specific teaching, shapes, forms and actions as more important than our unity we will have division. Be it over the specific details of our understanding of the person of Jesus, the day we celebrate Easter, the type of bread we use, whether we use the creed we all agreed to or that some of us have the right to change it, and how we exercise authority within the body of Christ, or be it because we have been unable to forgive some wrong done, or some other cause that we have felt overrides the call of Jesus to unity.

In the short term, we the midgets in our various communions have the power to find common unity whilst the great and the powerful struggle to keep up. I watch as Francis, Bishop of Rome and Patriarch of the West again and again struggles to find unity with those who are beyond his communion at the moment, and am saddened to hear the cry of those who call behind him sede vacantis and I fear that he may feel more like Paul than Peter.

In this joyful Eastertide let us recall that death is swallowed up in victory.

Devin P said:

The true church kept Passover, the feasts, and Torah. Rome slaughtered all of those found keeping Torah however. Aka: the Roman Catholic church. It's a common misconception that Jesus started the rcc, but research into early church history, and the history of the rcc will quickly show you otherwise.

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My research and study of early Church History leads me to a different position.

• I think initially the Church did keep Passover feasts and Torah
• Some of this was addressed at the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15)
• Following the destruction the Temple the Christians were excluded from the Temple and Synagogues, and coupled with the success in Asia Minor came to understand themselves as a new reality, a new Israel.
• Christians in Rome suffered as much as Christians elsewhere when The Roman Empire rose up to put down the Maccabean uprising. And The Jews blamed the Christians for that which was a major part of the reason for the exclusion.
• The notion of a Roman Catholic Church as a separate entity has no real meaning prior to the mutual excommunications of 1054.

Peace

thecolorsblend said:

Isn't it funny how these Protestants are always "discerning a call" to do something that, by sheer coincidence I'm sure, is exactly what they want? I guess "the Lord is laying it on their heart" to ruin their marriage and run off with somebody.

But the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth, they say...

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Sounds kind of hateful

You are Peter and on This Rock I build My Church

And the Gates of hades shall never prevail upon it

Holy Church in our Lord Jesus Christ with our Lord Jesus saying that that Holy Confession in Him through His Church , His Holy Catholic Church will be done by mankind with sins forgiven through repentance in Holy Confession and Holy Reconciliation in our Lord Jesus Christ with sins loosed on earth then are loosed in Heaven through our Lord Jesus Priests in Holy Confession.

Holy Saint Peters Priests and Religious in our Lord Jesus Christ our Lords Priests and Religious God set up from the very beginning.

Our Blessed Holy Trinity in our Lord Jesus Christ in Holy Spirit and through Most Holy Mother Mary said to His thousands of Holy Saints now in Heaven Don't judge My Priests and Religious because you are all being judged and these are My Priests and Religious delivering My Blessed Sacraments where I stand behind My Priests and My Altars and in the Confessional

Peter's Confession of Christ
…17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”…

John tower said:

Hard to reach Catholics because they don’t really study the bible but they are just controlled by their priests etc : So quoting the bible has zero effect on them : As Christ said Ye by the traditions which you have received of men ( priest) , make the word of God of none effect !

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It's not wise to make such general statements, because one example against your claim is enough to destroy it.

I study the Bible, as do most of the other Catholics who post here. Your argument fails.

John tower said:

As Christ said Ye by the traditions which you have received of men ( priest) , make the word of God of none effect !

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Perhaps it's actually you who, having received your traditions (the Solas, etc.) from men (your pastors), void the word of God?

John tower said:

Hard to reach Catholics because they don’t really study the bible but they are just controlled by their priests etc : So quoting the bible has zero effect on them : As Christ said Ye by the traditions which you have received of men ( priest) , make the word of God of none effect !

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This post should not go unchecked.

• Many Catholics (and I take you mean Roman Catholics) do have both formal and informal Bible Studies
• If you look at a Breviary, or a Missal with the lections, you realise that they read an inordinate amount of sacripture,
• The suggestion that they are 'controlled by their priests' is silly and suggests that the laity are mindless robotic vassals. Any real experience of the life of that Church would tell you that is just not true.
• In the main I think they are quite open to the text of scripture, and what it has for them.
• You should also be aware that catholic is a note of the Church, not simply the name of a church.

You may find these links helpful or enlightening:

• DAILY GOSPEL
  
• Universalis home page

I am not suggesting that you need to like members of the Roman Catholic Church, or that you need to agree with everything they say - as an Anglican it is probably clear that I may have a few issues with which I do not share a common mind, however I do not think that it is helpful to make broad generalisations, which don't stand up to much scrutiny and could simply mean that you have a different view on how some of the faith might be understood.

I am adding John 17 here, that we all might remember how Our Lord prayed for us on the evening of his betrayal into the hands of wicked men.

thecolorsblend said:

Isn't it funny how these Protestants are always "discerning a call" to do something that, by sheer coincidence I'm sure, is exactly what they want? I guess "the Lord is laying it on their heart" to ruin their marriage and run off with somebody.

But the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth, they say...

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When I got saved it was the last thing I was looking for, and honestly, the last thing I wanted. But now being on other side of it I am so glad God's will is stronger than my rebellion. At first it was difficult replacing my world view with a scriptural view. There were things I just didn't want to accept were sinful. But when God reveals the truth, what choice do we have (John 6:68-69)?

TuxAme said:

God wants us to be in nothing short of perfect communion with Him, and this simply can't be accomplished if you're not in the Church that He wants you in.

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I agree, which is why I am where I am, because it's where God led me.

Everyone on Earth who believes in Jesus Christ, is the new church.

Isaac Varghese said:

Everyone on Earth who believes in Jesus Christ, is the new church.

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The invisible Church, perhaps, but not the visible Church that Christ established.

Where is it? In "heaven"...

When you encounter a church that tells you that it has all truth and condemns all others --- run!