JW How to defeat JW at the door?
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Ratiocination
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It's usual to site support for your statements... Where does Jesus direct worship of the highest kind toward himself?
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Can I ask you to clarify, what do you mean by "highest kind"? Are there degrees of worship? I don't see anything in the Bible that suggests there are degrees of worship.
When tempted by Satan, Jesus said "“It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’”" (Luke 4:8, cf Matt 4:10, Ex 34:14)
Jesus was worshiped, which would be unthinkable if he wasn't God!
“They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him… When they saw him, they worshiped him” (Matthew 28:9, 17)
“Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.” (John 9:38)
“Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.” (John 9:38)
Thanks
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ViaCrucis
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I suspect I could be cheeky and quote Exodus 20:3, but I won't.
I'll instead point out John 14:1, and John 17:1-5. In the former Jesus calls on His followers to trust in Him even as they trust in God; in the latter Jesus prays to His Father to be glorified with the same glory He had with the Father.
But no, no where in the four Gospels does Jesus say, "Hey guys, I'm God and worship me as God". Then again, I can't find anywhere in the Bible that says, "These are books which are to be assembled into a sacred Canon of Holy Scripture, first Genesis, second Exodus, third Numbers..."
The Deity of Christ is something that the Church has received and confessed since the apostles, which we can see touched upon in several places of the writings which would eventually come to be known as the New Testament; we see it also in the writings of the ancient and holy Fathers of the Church, and as something which has been confessed and believed throughout history, codified in the Ecumenical Councils and Creeds of the Christian Church. All of which makes me pretty confident that I don't need to turn away from the historic, catholic, and apostolic faith of the Christian Church--it's reliable and faithful to what has been believed since the beginning.
-CryptoLutheran
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they are a joke. a very big one. i always laugh when i see them. but one thing they are good at is to preach and spread their religion. every weekend on my town-square some of them are placing "bibles" in a holder, you can also see them from time to time stand in the street and give people notes about their group and what they belive in and ofc the standard door-knockings. why are not protestants, ortodoxy and catholic doing this? the jehova whitness are preaching their gospel more than the 3 biggest dominions of christianity is doing. this is bad, people get the wrong view on jesus.
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1) You said:
Then my question is, in JE's view, what would be the eternal consequence of "wrongly" believing that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are 3 entities in one God? More specifically what would be the eternal consequence for someone to "wrongly" believe that Jesus is God? And what would be the eternal consequence for someone to "wrongly" believe that the Holy Spirit is an actual entity and not just the power of God? Please be sure to quote from your NWT bible as prove of this eternal consequence.
2) You said
Jehovah God said "I am the Alpha and Omega" to John. And John wrote it down, just as John wrote the rest of Revelation. Then John goes on to tell the readers where he was when he received the Revelation. "I, John" goes perfectly here.
3) You said
Glad you say that "First and Last, who became dead and came to life again" is only Jesus and not Jehovah. More on this below.
As for love, I believe all JW's are heading to eternal hell and separated from God. If trying to save people from hell isn't love, then you have to redefine love for us. What then are JW's doing when they go house to house? So JW trying to "save" people from hell is considered love, while Christians trying to save JW's from hell isn't considered love but instead considered judgmental? Nice twist there, with all due respect.
4) You said:
Yes. You said Jesus is "First and Last, who became dead and came to life again". And you also said Alpha and Omega is Jehovah. You yourself said these things.
And here we have Jesus saying in verse 13 "I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,*p the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
So here Jesus used the exact same title that God calls himself as, Alpha and Omega. And Jesus defines what Alpha and Omega means. Alpha and Omega means First and Last, beginning and the end. So when Jesus said he was "First and Last", he means that he is Alpha and Omega, just as God is Alpha and Omega. Jesus had existed since before the beginning of time and will last forever more.
5) You said:
Here is what I understand you are trying to say. That in Revelation 1:8 Jehovah God said he is Alpha and Omega, followed by John talking about where he received this Revelation. This I agree with.
Then in Revelation 22:12-15 it was God speaking. Then in Revelation 22:16 Jesus speaks. And all these messages were delivered by multiple angels.
But it is impossible, because in verse 16 Jesus said that it was him who sent the Angel in the first place. Which angel? The angel in verse 6 and 8. It must be because in the whole chapter of Revelation 22, the word angel only appeared 3 times. Verses 6, 8 and 16. The angel in verse 6 and 8 must be the same angel, because John in verse 8 said he "heard" these things from the angel in verse 6 and worshiped the angel. So there was only 1 angel in verse 6 and 8.
And also the angel is verse 16 must be the same as the angel is verse 6. Because John DIDN'T write that "another" angel appear to him here. And before you say John didn't know the word "another", in Revelation 7:2 John DID wrote "another" angel. We can also see the word "another" with angel in Revelation 8:3, Revelation 14:6, 14:15, 14:17. So John knows the word "another" very well. But he chose to not write the word "another" in Revelation 22:16. Why no the word "another" in this critical place? Because there WASN'T another angel. There was just one angel, for all of verses 6, 8 and 16.
Besides you must consider what John is trying to do here. Because in verse 6 Jehovah God said he sent his angel with this message "I am coming quickly!" (verse 7). Then in verse 12 somebody said "I am coming quickly! I am Alpha and Omega, first and last, beginning and the end." Then in verse 16 Jesus said he sent his angel with this message. Then in verse 20 Jesus said "I am coming quickly." And John amen to that and asked Lord Jesus to come, didn't bother mentioning Jehovah here. And here is, as you know it, the very end of the whole bible.
When the same thing was repeated 3 times (I am coming quickly), it indicates that it was said by the same person unless it was indicated otherwise. John made no such indication.
At the very least, it is not important to John to separate God from Jesus. If this is so important, as JW's try to claim, then why wasn't John much more careful in doing this? Why the parallelism, if it is so important for God to be separated from Jesus? No. It seems John is doing everything he can to link Jesus with God, on an equal basis.
So who is this somebody that said "I am Alpha and Omega" in verse 12? Is this somebody Jesus & Jehovah, or Jehovah only? We can debate but that would actually miss John's point. John didn't care to clearly separate Jesus from Jehovah, because to John it didn't matter.
We can see the same thing in Revelation 22:1-5 (NWT). John said there is the throne of God and of the Lamb. It indicates that there was one single throne for God and Lamb. If it was important for John to separate God from the Lamb, John would have wrote the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb. But once again John made no separation, so God is the Lamb and they are equal.
Furthermore the people in heaven refers to God and the Lamb as a single HE in here. It said they (God's servants) will serve him (God and Lamb). They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. Jehovah God will be their light, and they will rule as kings forever and ever.
If Jehovah is God and Jesus is just a god, and this knowledge separates people's eternal destiny, it is as if the bible (God's word) is going out of its way to make it confusing and difficult to understand. Is Jehovah God a God of confusion? Or does Jehovah God make things clear as day for those he loves?
John's lack of concern to clearly separate Jesus from Jehovah is prove that it is not important. John's silence on this is loud and deafening. Jesus is Jehovah God. Whoever worships Jesus as Jehovah God will also receive Jehovah God. Whoever refuse to worship Jesus as Jehovah God will also be rejected by Jehovah God.
And if this is that important, we would expect to hear clear warning about this throughout the bible. Paul and Peter would have warned everyone to "Don't you dare worship Jesus as Jehovah! Else you are going to hell!" But we do not see these kind of warnings anywhere in the bible.
Instead we have tons more warning about Christians not loving God nor loving all their neighbours enough. About how those on top abuse and marginalize those below them. And how those below plans day and night to overthrow those on top. And this is how we can tell that love, similar to Jesus' sacrifice for us, is of the most important. That Christians on top are bounded to love those below them. And Christian below are bounded to love those above them. And no one can truly be a Christian unless they abide in love and love all their neighbours, because no one can deceive God even if they deceived the whole world. God is loving exposing light and in him there is no hidden evil darkness at all. This way love is circulated in all churches and the dark world can clearly see this loving light.
Perhaps you invested a lot of time and money into JW. But this is eternity we are talking about here. So you better be right about this. If JW is wrong, all your investments are sunk cost and you should leave JW and join Christianity.
6) You said:
You are trash talking JW's own NWT bible. Because in NWT they used capital G for God in John 20:28-29. In your own words, NWT is misleading JW's because it should only say theos.
You said it is ok to call Jesus Lord and God (theos) because Jesus was special. That doesn't make Jesus Jehovah. And you further question Christians by asking us why we input a capital G for God. We can say the same that JW's is misleading its followers by adding the word "Jehovah" everywhere in their NWT. For example Matthew 1:22. All it said there was "Lord" without clarifying which lord. The word "Jehovah" isn't there at all. Why do JW flat out add non-existent words into their NWT?
And in other places why is the word Jehovah omitted? For example right here in John 20:28 why doesn't Thomas say to Jesus: "My Jehovah (Lord) and My theos (God)!"? If JW's want to change every "Lord" into "Jehovah", at least do it consistently. And in this case it is even better! Thomas calls Jesus as Jehovah directly.
7) You said:
That is indeed Christian's view. Father, Spirit and Son are 3 godheads of the one singular trinity God. Jesus indeed was there since the beginning. Jesus was indeed with God. And Jesus indeed was God, at the same time. Does this make sense? No. How can Jesus be with God and also is God himself at the same time? But God is beyond our understanding, and Christians are comfortable with not understanding 100% about God.
Point here is the JW’s NWT don’t even follow their own “No article, so small g in Greek” rule throughout. They said "The Word is a god" not by some correct grammar rule, but just because they wanted to.
Bonus:
How should Christians worship God today? This is for your self meditation.
Read Revelation 4:8-11 for the old song of worship:
“Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah*+ God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is coming.”
“You are worthy, Jehovah* our God, to receive the glory+ and the honor+ and the power,+ because you created all things,+ and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”
Then read Revelation 5:9-14 for the new song, that Jehovah God accepted gladly and didn't rebuke. This is the new song that will be sung from the day of the lamb till forevermore. Why all of this for just another small g god and just another theos?
“You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God+ out of every tribe and tongue* and people and nation,+ and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our God,+ and they are to rule as kings+ over the earth.”
“The Lamb who was slaughtered+ is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”
“To the One sitting on the throne+ and to the Lamb+ be the blessing and the honor+ and the glory and the might forever and ever.”
Then my question is, in JE's view, what would be the eternal consequence of "wrongly" believing that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are 3 entities in one God? More specifically what would be the eternal consequence for someone to "wrongly" believe that Jesus is God? And what would be the eternal consequence for someone to "wrongly" believe that the Holy Spirit is an actual entity and not just the power of God? Please be sure to quote from your NWT bible as prove of this eternal consequence.
2) You said
Jehovah God said "I am the Alpha and Omega" to John. And John wrote it down, just as John wrote the rest of Revelation. Then John goes on to tell the readers where he was when he received the Revelation. "I, John" goes perfectly here.
3) You said
Glad you say that "First and Last, who became dead and came to life again" is only Jesus and not Jehovah. More on this below.
As for love, I believe all JW's are heading to eternal hell and separated from God. If trying to save people from hell isn't love, then you have to redefine love for us. What then are JW's doing when they go house to house? So JW trying to "save" people from hell is considered love, while Christians trying to save JW's from hell isn't considered love but instead considered judgmental? Nice twist there, with all due respect.
4) You said:
Yes. You said Jesus is "First and Last, who became dead and came to life again". And you also said Alpha and Omega is Jehovah. You yourself said these things.
And here we have Jesus saying in verse 13 "I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,*p the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
So here Jesus used the exact same title that God calls himself as, Alpha and Omega. And Jesus defines what Alpha and Omega means. Alpha and Omega means First and Last, beginning and the end. So when Jesus said he was "First and Last", he means that he is Alpha and Omega, just as God is Alpha and Omega. Jesus had existed since before the beginning of time and will last forever more.
5) You said:
Here is what I understand you are trying to say. That in Revelation 1:8 Jehovah God said he is Alpha and Omega, followed by John talking about where he received this Revelation. This I agree with.
Then in Revelation 22:12-15 it was God speaking. Then in Revelation 22:16 Jesus speaks. And all these messages were delivered by multiple angels.
But it is impossible, because in verse 16 Jesus said that it was him who sent the Angel in the first place. Which angel? The angel in verse 6 and 8. It must be because in the whole chapter of Revelation 22, the word angel only appeared 3 times. Verses 6, 8 and 16. The angel in verse 6 and 8 must be the same angel, because John in verse 8 said he "heard" these things from the angel in verse 6 and worshiped the angel. So there was only 1 angel in verse 6 and 8.
And also the angel is verse 16 must be the same as the angel is verse 6. Because John DIDN'T write that "another" angel appear to him here. And before you say John didn't know the word "another", in Revelation 7:2 John DID wrote "another" angel. We can also see the word "another" with angel in Revelation 8:3, Revelation 14:6, 14:15, 14:17. So John knows the word "another" very well. But he chose to not write the word "another" in Revelation 22:16. Why no the word "another" in this critical place? Because there WASN'T another angel. There was just one angel, for all of verses 6, 8 and 16.
Besides you must consider what John is trying to do here. Because in verse 6 Jehovah God said he sent his angel with this message "I am coming quickly!" (verse 7). Then in verse 12 somebody said "I am coming quickly! I am Alpha and Omega, first and last, beginning and the end." Then in verse 16 Jesus said he sent his angel with this message. Then in verse 20 Jesus said "I am coming quickly." And John amen to that and asked Lord Jesus to come, didn't bother mentioning Jehovah here. And here is, as you know it, the very end of the whole bible.
When the same thing was repeated 3 times (I am coming quickly), it indicates that it was said by the same person unless it was indicated otherwise. John made no such indication.
At the very least, it is not important to John to separate God from Jesus. If this is so important, as JW's try to claim, then why wasn't John much more careful in doing this? Why the parallelism, if it is so important for God to be separated from Jesus? No. It seems John is doing everything he can to link Jesus with God, on an equal basis.
So who is this somebody that said "I am Alpha and Omega" in verse 12? Is this somebody Jesus & Jehovah, or Jehovah only? We can debate but that would actually miss John's point. John didn't care to clearly separate Jesus from Jehovah, because to John it didn't matter.
We can see the same thing in Revelation 22:1-5 (NWT). John said there is the throne of God and of the Lamb. It indicates that there was one single throne for God and Lamb. If it was important for John to separate God from the Lamb, John would have wrote the throne of God and the throne of the Lamb. But once again John made no separation, so God is the Lamb and they are equal.
Furthermore the people in heaven refers to God and the Lamb as a single HE in here. It said they (God's servants) will serve him (God and Lamb). They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. Jehovah God will be their light, and they will rule as kings forever and ever.
If Jehovah is God and Jesus is just a god, and this knowledge separates people's eternal destiny, it is as if the bible (God's word) is going out of its way to make it confusing and difficult to understand. Is Jehovah God a God of confusion? Or does Jehovah God make things clear as day for those he loves?
John's lack of concern to clearly separate Jesus from Jehovah is prove that it is not important. John's silence on this is loud and deafening. Jesus is Jehovah God. Whoever worships Jesus as Jehovah God will also receive Jehovah God. Whoever refuse to worship Jesus as Jehovah God will also be rejected by Jehovah God.
And if this is that important, we would expect to hear clear warning about this throughout the bible. Paul and Peter would have warned everyone to "Don't you dare worship Jesus as Jehovah! Else you are going to hell!" But we do not see these kind of warnings anywhere in the bible.
Instead we have tons more warning about Christians not loving God nor loving all their neighbours enough. About how those on top abuse and marginalize those below them. And how those below plans day and night to overthrow those on top. And this is how we can tell that love, similar to Jesus' sacrifice for us, is of the most important. That Christians on top are bounded to love those below them. And Christian below are bounded to love those above them. And no one can truly be a Christian unless they abide in love and love all their neighbours, because no one can deceive God even if they deceived the whole world. God is loving exposing light and in him there is no hidden evil darkness at all. This way love is circulated in all churches and the dark world can clearly see this loving light.
Perhaps you invested a lot of time and money into JW. But this is eternity we are talking about here. So you better be right about this. If JW is wrong, all your investments are sunk cost and you should leave JW and join Christianity.
6) You said:
You are trash talking JW's own NWT bible. Because in NWT they used capital G for God in John 20:28-29. In your own words, NWT is misleading JW's because it should only say theos.
You said it is ok to call Jesus Lord and God (theos) because Jesus was special. That doesn't make Jesus Jehovah. And you further question Christians by asking us why we input a capital G for God. We can say the same that JW's is misleading its followers by adding the word "Jehovah" everywhere in their NWT. For example Matthew 1:22. All it said there was "Lord" without clarifying which lord. The word "Jehovah" isn't there at all. Why do JW flat out add non-existent words into their NWT?
And in other places why is the word Jehovah omitted? For example right here in John 20:28 why doesn't Thomas say to Jesus: "My Jehovah (Lord) and My theos (God)!"? If JW's want to change every "Lord" into "Jehovah", at least do it consistently. And in this case it is even better! Thomas calls Jesus as Jehovah directly.
7) You said:
That is indeed Christian's view. Father, Spirit and Son are 3 godheads of the one singular trinity God. Jesus indeed was there since the beginning. Jesus was indeed with God. And Jesus indeed was God, at the same time. Does this make sense? No. How can Jesus be with God and also is God himself at the same time? But God is beyond our understanding, and Christians are comfortable with not understanding 100% about God.
Point here is the JW’s NWT don’t even follow their own “No article, so small g in Greek” rule throughout. They said "The Word is a god" not by some correct grammar rule, but just because they wanted to.
Bonus:
How should Christians worship God today? This is for your self meditation.
Read Revelation 4:8-11 for the old song of worship:
“Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah*+ God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is coming.”
“You are worthy, Jehovah* our God, to receive the glory+ and the honor+ and the power,+ because you created all things,+ and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”
Then read Revelation 5:9-14 for the new song, that Jehovah God accepted gladly and didn't rebuke. This is the new song that will be sung from the day of the lamb till forevermore. Why all of this for just another small g god and just another theos?
“You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God+ out of every tribe and tongue* and people and nation,+ and you made them to be a kingdom+ and priests to our God,+ and they are to rule as kings+ over the earth.”
“The Lamb who was slaughtered+ is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”
“To the One sitting on the throne+ and to the Lamb+ be the blessing and the honor+ and the glory and the might forever and ever.”
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Slam the door. Theyre brainwashed and manipulated to such a degree that if you succeed pinning them towards the wall theyll just head back to their pastor to learn to avoid and dodge those questions.
Groups like LDS and especially JW prey on the singleminded. I tend to like LDS better though.
Groups like LDS and especially JW prey on the singleminded. I tend to like LDS better though.
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twin.spin
Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding
I would suggest "defeat" isn't the goal but to witness Christ in the hopes that after many years of hearing from other people that God will soften the heart to the message.
Like the LDS, these people need to hear what the Bible teaches concerning Jesus and then we ought to let God the Holy Spirit through his word have his desired outcome happen.
Like the LDS, these people need to hear what the Bible teaches concerning Jesus and then we ought to let God the Holy Spirit through his word have his desired outcome happen.
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Ratiocination
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What respect? In your OP and in this comment above you've shown that you have no respect whatsoever for me or the organisation I belong to. Why should I discuss your obvious errors in revelation with you? What's the point? I've made many many comments on this forum over the years regarding the excellent writings of John in Revelation, none of those were belittling or attacking in any way!CCHIPSS said:
If you don't want to listen to me, listen to the other comments on here who have said the same thing to you!
So maybe rather than telling me I'm going to hell for my opinions and beliefs here, just be nice, apologise for the attacking and the moral superiority complex you've got, and we can proceed!
Regards
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Ratiocination
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I am literally itching to reply to this, and to point out why these kinds of arguments belong in a kindergarten logic textbook... But first I need you to tell me how you "respect" me? You said so yourself, right?
I'm not pre-mocking you personally, just the websites or teaching structures that taught you this non-sense. And I know from experience, judging by your tone in the OP, and the fact that you told me I'm going to hell, that this will cause you to explode into a rage. So tell me... In what ways do you respect me?
Then I guess we could also start with the question...
1) How many speakers are there in Revelation? With a follow up of; How many speakers are there really in the book of Revelation?
[There is also another post from me above]
Regards
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The7thColporteur
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Hello Ratiocination,
I agree in the part where I am not looking to 'defeat', but rather to 'win' all to the Truth. I have had several Jehovah's Witnesses, young and old, male and female, come to the door [and I am currently speaking with one by text, a providential text that was sent to me in error, and from there I have been in conversation with her for some time], and I have even knocked on several Jehovah's Witnesses doors, in the city where I live, on outreach, and colporteuring, and flyers, etc, even an Jehovah's Witness elder gave me his email, after I asked [though he never wrote me back, an I tried three times and finally let him go]. I even asked if I could preach and share at a local Hall. I was told, "No." I asked, "Why?" I was not really given an answer, but the person I asked at that time, was only a female member, not an elder. I tried again when I met another. I kinda got the same answer. [There are some powerful things on the state-of-the-dead, I know for certain you and any Jehovah's Witness have never heard preached, let me know if you want to see it ... powerful - also have you downloaded my Michael the archangel and Daniel and Revalation study yet? They are found in the middle of this post - Was Miller a False Prophet/Teacher? DL both linked materials here I'll just add them
Any may download the structure of Daniel and Revelation here - Link
Any may download the great Study here on the Michael the Archangel, The Character that will Stand in the Last Day - Link]
I always invite such persons to stay, and study, or if they are busy to come back at a scheduled time and invite them in for study. I have several questions I never get answered and I have been really [I even tried trough a mutual person] trying for some time now, and none come back to give me the answers.
Therefore, would you like to try for me? I really, honestly, would like the answers to these questions. I do not joke in the least, nor play games in such matters, for I take Bible study seriously and prayerfully.
Would you be willing to answer my questions from your official sources, Bible [NWT, KIT, KJB] and WTS material? It will involve prophecy. I will say, that on my whiteboard [right behind me at this moment] is the entire WTS prophetic chain of events marked with as many WTS references as I have available to me [which is not very many, only the ones I was given at the door, or that I specifically asked for, and I can name them if you desire], and I need a few pieces of information to complete this picture. Will you assist me or not?
Thus I invite you to study with me, and need you to teach me the WTS prophetic events and times, to make sure I have them correct and in the right order, place, and I have a few remaining places I need filled in from such.
I have been to JW [org] on numerous occasions, and have even been reading the WTS, "Jesus—The Way, the Truth, the Life" book that the sister on the phone asked me to read. I have read up to chapter 65 so far, and wanted some questions answered on it also, before I continue reading further. Will you assist me, yes or no? I am most serious.
In all forthrightness, other Jehovah's Witnesses [male, female, old, young, elder or not] I have asked these things never come back and/or stop talking to me, and give no reason as to why they do not give me the answers.
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I believe it is easier to just ask them if Jesus is God, Jehovah's witness will say yes so you can say is he one with the Father they will say no he is a lesser God begotten by the Father yet inferior to him. So there you have it, pure polytheism.
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LDSsurvivor
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Just ask them who their mediator is, if they say its Jesus that's not what the watchtower teaches, according to JW offical teaching Jesus is only the mediator for the 144 000, the rest of us are out of luck if we aren't JWs, you need the watchtower organisation to be your mediator
JW book "Worldwide Security Under The Prince Of Peace' 1986 page 10
'Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all man- kind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members'
JW book "Worldwide Security Under The Prince Of Peace' 1986 page 10
'Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all man- kind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members'
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The older I get, the more I realize the most precious thing I have is "time." Time slips through our fingers like sand. I think there are far better things I could be doing -- and want to be doing -- with my time than engaging JW's. it's a pointless exercise in futility with each of us unlikely to affect the beliefs of the other. I politely dismiss them. It is time better spent for both of us.
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Ratiocination
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Well, writing this reply took about 60 seconds of your time lol.
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Ratiocination
Senior Member
This is really off topic.
If you want, then start another thread.
If you want to point out that JW's are people too and make mistakes then please start another thread to that effect.
I'm not really sure what it is you even want to discuss, you beat around the bush alot in your post, I'm not about to search your links for an argument, if you want to make an argument then go ahead, start another thread.
In essence, start another thread, because its off topic.
If you do start another thread then please make the OP as short as possible, because otherwise it becomes an monologue born out of arrogance rather than an invitation to discussion.
In any case I agree with you firstly that JW'S are people too.
Regards
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LOL. Exactly. I'd rather spend 60 seconds communicating with other Christians on CF than 60 seconds with JW's. It takes me about 10 to wish them a Good Day and send them up the street.
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Ratiocination
Senior Member
That's 120 so far. Truth is your just as interested in talking to us as most other people are otherwise you wouldn't have even opened this thread in the first place.LOL. Exactly. I'd rather spend 60 seconds communicating with other Christians on CF than 60 seconds with JW's. It takes me about 10 to wish them a Good Day and send them up the street.
Is there anything in the OP that you find compelling?
Maybe I could ask you; How many speakers are there in Revelation?
The guy that started this thread is clearly not interested in civil discussion, but maybe you are?
Regards
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