Why did Satan Murder Jesus, Knowing How angry this would make God?

Agreed!

RaymondG said:

This is why:

You made a bold statement as if it were fact; and only gave the details of it being extra-biblical after your assertion was questioned. It is important to state opinions as opinions..

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It's not an opinion.
It's a fact that I read somewhere, probably a commentary, about the kind of whips that the Romans carried. I didn't stat my source because I couldn't remember. But the fact can be easily verified, or not, but looking at a commentary for the verses that say that Pilate had Jesus flogged. Or by simply googling for Roman whips or "Roman punishments or something like that.

RaymondG said:

else we could lead someone astray.

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There is no "leading astray" involved. Jesus was flogged before he was crucified - we know that, and I was not disputing it.
As a matter of fact I was responding to the bold statements that a) Jesus was flogged 50 times, and b) we know the Romans gave him 50 lashes because Isaiah 52:14 says that his appearance was marred, (post #84.)
The 1st statement has been corrected, and the poster acknowledge his mistake; the second wasn't. Jesus' appearance was marred, but that does not prove that he was flogged 50 times.

RaymondG said:

Saying that this is was written to be the norm for people at this time, doesnt make one sure that this happened to every single person at the time.......

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It is a fact - since double checked courtesy of Google - that Roman whips were made this way. Jesus was flogged by Roman soldiers. Why would they change the type of whip they used for his benefit; where is there any suggestion that they did this?
The people the Gospels were written to were well aware of Roman punishments, armoury and so on - Israel had been under Roman rule for years, and many people suffered, or were suffering, Roman persecution.

RaymondG said:

Our justice system will write their idea of what goes on in prisons and how it is run....but how much of it is the truth?

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But I suggest that it is harder to write "their version" of certain methods of punishment that are used - either the police had tear gas/lasers/stun guns or they didn't; either they used handcuffs, or they didn't; either there was solitary confinement in the jails, or there wasn't. Maybe some counties/countries/states used these things at a certain point, and later discontinued to do so, or maybe other counties/states adopted the practice.

The statements in this thread that Jesus was given 50 lashes and that this is borne out by Isaiah 52:14, were what were in question. They were "stated as if they were facts", (though one has since been corrected.)
The fact that Romans used a certain type of whip when flogging someone, is a statement not made, not verified, in Scripture. It was not the Gospel writer's intention to talk about the type of whip, nails, or thorns used in Jesus' crown - the fact THAT they happened was what was important. Like I said, people at the time would have been well aware of what was involved in crucifixion, and Roman punishment.

MelG11 said:

Even if Satan did its because God allowed it so why is it relevant?

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Satan did manage to obtain the right to possess Judas. The first time was to negotiate the deal with the religious leadership. Obstinate sin of Judas is the sin that gave Satan the right imo. The second time was right after Judas accepted the morsel of bread from Jesus' hand. Jesus said " do what you must do but do it quickly" For taking the bread without discerning Christ gave Satan the right that time imo. That time he went to lead the cohort to arrest Jesus.

Satan wanted to kill Jesus for the same reason the scribes and Pharisees did. Satan had a two stage attack. Both are workable in the mentality inherent in man. In the scribes and Pharisees it was heightened and expressed by their fear of losing the seat of Moses. Satan liked them sitting there too.

The inherent mentality comes in various forms, one of which Simon Peter expressed when he tried to stop Jesus from going to Jerusalem. Satan's desire to tempt Jesus to adopt a kingship of political worldly power was manifest in Simon Peter's desire. Jesus would be bowing to both Satan and the authority of those who sit on the seat of Moses if He did this.

The desire to tempt and then kill if that fails was manifest in a microcosmic event when a township of Jews tried to make Jesus their king and when He refused they tried to force Him over a cliff. Both of these seemingly contradictory desires of Satan, are workable in man because Satan's thinking is inherent in man's thinking, and co-operating with Satan's plan. Satan pulling the strings he established in the mind of man, so to speak.
Firstly, that Jesus take his offer to be a worldly Messiah, which was also the hope of the Jewish leadership, (unbeknownst to them it was their father's desire and not the desire of God they outwardly worshiped) then Satan's backup plan was to kill Jesus if his temptation didn't work.

Eloy Craft said:

Satan wanted to kill Jesus for the same reason the scribes and Pharisees did. Satan had a two stage attack. Both are workable in the mentality inherent in man. In the scribes and Pharisees it was heightened and expressed by their fear of losing the seat of Moses. Satan liked them sitting there too.

The inherent mentality comes in various forms, one of which Simon Peter expressed when he tried to stop Jesus from going to Jerusalem. Satan's desire to tempt Jesus to adopt a kingship of political worldly power was manifest in Simon Peter's desire. Jesus would be bowing to both Satan and the authority of those who sit on the seat of Moses if He did this.

The desire to tempt and then kill if that fails was manifest in a microcosmic event when a township of Jews tried to make Jesus their king and when He refused they tried to force Him over a cliff. Both of these seemingly contradictory desires of Satan, are workable in man because Satan's thinking is inherent in man's thinking, and co-operating with Satan's plan. Satan pulling the strings he established in the mind of man, so to speak.
Firstly, that Jesus take his offer to be a worldly Messiah, which was also the hope of the Jewish leadership, (unbeknownst to them it was their father's desire and not the desire of God they outwardly worshiped) then Satan's backup plan was to kill Jesus if his temptation didn't work.

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Maybe there is something prophetic in the question Jesus provokes the Pharisees with about Beelzebub

A House Divided Cannot Stand
22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind anda]'>[a] mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub,b]'>[b] the ruler of the demons.”

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

The symbology would be one of a snake eating its own tail. God's plan has the devil working at cross purposes with himself.

We sometimes presume that Satan is 'pulling strings' with cold cunning, a plan 'A' and a Plan 'B' to cover all contingencies.
After all, a mind unencumbered by the responsibilities of love and pity and personal relationships would be capable of ruthless logic and rationality. It need never take in account the effect that a ruthless act may have on loved ones or the innocent. Without morality, the ends justify any means.
But perhaps what burns brighter in the desires of Satan is not the impeccable unencumbered rationality and cold hard logic that the evil mind is uniquely free to follow.

At the very heart of Satan's pride is the white hot rage against God that blinds him to any and all consequences.

Pride is not a rational emotion. From the beginning there was never anything reasonable or rational in the resentment and envy that Satan has against God for being better than he is. A rational mind can factually evaluate that this girl is prettier than me, or that boy is stronger, that co-worker is smarter; and accept the reality without resentment. But a prideful mind cannot ever accept that kind of truth.

So when the chance arises for Satan to have God flayed and tortured and humiliated and murdered, this is a temptation that was just too great for Satan to resist.

SolomonVII said:

Maybe there is something prophetic in the question Jesus provokes the Pharisees with about Beelzebub

A House Divided Cannot Stand
22 Then one was brought to Him who was demon-possessed, blind and mute; and He healed him, so that the blind anda]'>[a] mute man both spoke and saw. 23 And all the multitudes were amazed and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”

24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub,b]'>[b] the ruler of the demons.”

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

The symbology would be one of a snake eating its own tail. God's plan has the devil working at cross purposes with himself.

We sometimes presume that Satan is 'pulling strings' with cold cunning, a plan 'A' and a Plan 'B' to cover all contingencies.
After all, a mind unencumbered by the responsibilities of love and pity and personal relationships would be capable of ruthless logic and rationality. It need never take in account the effect that a ruthless act may have on loved ones or the innocent. Without morality, the ends justify any means.
But perhaps what burns brighter in the desires of Satan is not the impeccable unencumbered rationality and cold hard logic that the evil mind is uniquely free to follow.

At the very heart of Satan's pride is the white hot rage against God that blinds him to any and all consequences.

Pride is not a rational emotion. From the beginning there was never anything reasonable or rational in the resentment and envy that Satan has against God for being better than he is. A rational mind can factually evaluate that this girl is prettier than me, or that boy is stronger, that co-worker is smarter; and accept the reality without resentment. But a prideful mind cannot ever accept that kind of truth.

So when the chance arises for Satan to have God flayed and tortured and humiliated and murdered, this is a temptation that was just too great for Satan to resist.

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Awesome insight! I like the example you posted. The desire to raise up to the highest place united to lower down to the lowest place, presents an internal conflict that divides and destroys.

I recently learned something about this incident, in case you don't already know this I thought you might find it interesting.

SolomonVII said:

24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub,b]'>[b] the ruler of the demons.”

25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.

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Rabbis in Jesus' day were expected to be able to cast out demons. In fact there were a lot of religions casting out demons. There were some Pagan sects that were pretty good at it. They claimed to possess secret knowledge. Some of their secret knowledge was the names of powerful demons. They would cast out less powerful demons by calling on a more powerful demon and that would scare the lesser demons away. The Jews in Jesus day had resorted to the secret knowledge and names of demons from the Pagans and were using this method of exorcism. This is what Jesus was referring to when He asked them "by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they shall be your judges." They figured Jesus could cast out any demon so He must be using the most powerful demon of them all. So Jesus follows with "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you."
This is likely a power Satan was tempting Jesus with in the desert when Satan said "if you bow down to me." Then Satan would be His judge too.

Blood Bought 1953 said:

Satan did not murder Jesus.God was responsible and it gave Him pleasure to do so.You and I put Jesus on the cross.God knew it was the price that had to be paid that would enable all Believers to be saved.It was the last thing Satan wanted If he knew what the results would turn out to be.

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This is absolute folly. You and I did not put Jesus on the Cross. He laid down His life willingly because of His love for mankind.

How people have attributed praise to your heresies is astounding to me.

Theophan said:

This is absolute folly. You and I did not put Jesus on the Cross.

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Not literally, because we weren't there at the time.
But he died for sinners, to forgive sin and reconcile people to God. No sin = no sinners = no need for Jesus to have come and died.
You and I sin, have sinned and were once enemies of God. Because of this, we needed to be reconciled to God. Even though the act of the crucifixion was centuries ago, the reason for it is still the same; we have sinned and need to be reconciled to God.

Theophan said:

He laid down His life willingly because of His love for mankind.

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Matthew 26:28, "this is my blood, poured out for the sins of many."
Mark 10:45, "the Son of Man came to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many."
John 1:29, "look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".

Yes, Jesus willingly laid down his life - because he knew that this was God's will, plan and the only way to take away sin and reconcile mankind to God.
We contribute/have contributed to the sin of the world, so it is not wrong to say that it was our sin that led to the cross.

Theophan said:

How people have attributed praise to your heresies is astounding to me.

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Maybe you've misunderstood the post or reason why people are agreeing with it.

Strong in Him said:

Not literally, because we weren't there at the time.
But he died for sinners, to forgive sin and reconcile people to God. No sin = no sinners = no need for Jesus to have come and died.
You and I sin, have sinned and were once enemies of God. Because of this, we needed to be reconciled to God. Even though the act of the crucifixion was centuries ago, the reason for it is still the same; we have sinned and need to be reconciled to God.



Matthew 26:28, "this is my blood, poured out for the sins of many."
Mark 10:45, "the Son of Man came to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many."
John 1:29, "look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".

Yes, Jesus willingly laid down his life - because he knew that this was God's will, plan and the only way to take away sin and reconcile mankind to God.
We contribute/have contributed to the sin of the world, so it is not wrong to say that it was our sin that led to the cross.



Maybe you've misunderstood the post or reason why people are agreeing with it.

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You are wrong to continue asserting that we put Christ on the cross. It is as if you are saying that if your house was burning, the fire made you run away. Wrong. Your desire to preserve your life made you run away from the flames.

Likewise, Christ in His love for us allowed Himself to be betrayed into the hands of sinful men and be crucified in order to save us. He was not compelled by our sinfulness and need of a savior; He was compelled by His love for us. What you are describing is the problem that sin presents against ourselves; it is not a problem for God to resolve.

It is not our sin that led Christ to the cross. This is foolishness. It is God's love for us that led Him to the cross. We needed a Savior; it is true. But God did NOT need to save His creation from their sins. He did not die merely to solve a problem. Every step He took towards Golgatha was fueled by love for us. This is what led Him to the Cross. To say that "we put Him there" is false. We didn't put Him anywhere, we didn't compell Him to go to the Cross. His love for us did.

Theophan said:

It is not our sin that led Christ to the cross. This is foolishness. It is God's love for us that led Him to the cross.

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Yes, to die for us because we were sinners and could not reconcile ourselves to God.

There is a line in one of Stuart Townend's songs "it was my sin which held him there" (on the cross).
I hate that line. It was his love that led Jesus to, and held him on, the cross; no doubt about it.
But the reason the cross was needed was because of sin, and the complete inability of humans to obey God and save and reconcile themselves to him.

Theophan said:

But God did NOT need to save His creation from their sins.

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No he didn't; he did so out of his mercy, grace and great love. God didn't disown or destroy us for being sinners, he sent his Son to die for us.
If there was, and had been, no sin and everyone was perfect, we would not need to be saved from sin and made perfect. The Israelites would not have sacrificed millions of animals as sacrifices for their sin, or been punished when they failed to offer the required sacrifices.

Theophan said:

Every step He took towards Golgatha was fueled by love for us.

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Yes, I don't disagree.
Fuelled by his love for us, because we were sinners and without his perfect sacrifice, which would reconcile us to and give us peace with, God, we would have suffered eternal death - separation from God. We would have all suffered this after death, because we would have died in our sins, unreconciled to God.

Theophan said:

This is what led Him to the Cross.

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Because - in his love - he did not want to see us punished, and die, for our sins.
Like I said, no sin, no sinners, no separation from God.

Theophan said:

We didn't put Him anywhere, we didn't compell Him to go to the Cross. His love for us did.

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Yes - the kind of awesome, amazing love which said, these people are sinners and deserve eternal death, which would be punishment for their sins. Because of their sin, that is what is due to them; because of my love, I am not going to let that happen.

God's love is amazing, awesome ans was demonstrated on the cross - John says that this is what love is. The reason that the cross was necessary was because of the sin of mankind.
If we had not sinned, God would not have sent his Son to be a sacrifice for sin.

Strong in Him said:

Yes, to die for us because we were sinners and could not reconcile ourselves to God.

There is a line in one of Stuart Townend's songs "it was my sin which held him there" (on the cross).
I hate that line. It was his love that led Jesus to, and held him on, the cross; no doubt about it.
But the reason the cross was needed was because of sin, and the complete inability of humans to obey God and save and reconcile themselves to him.



No he didn't; he did so out of his mercy, grace and great love. God didn't disown or destroy us for being sinners, he sent his Son to die for us.
If there was, and had been, no sin and everyone was perfect, we would not need to be saved from sin and made perfect. The Israelites would not have sacrificed millions of animals as sacrifices for their sin, or been punished when they failed to offer the required sacrifices.



Yes, I don't disagree.
Fuelled by his love for us, because we were sinners and without his perfect sacrifice, which would reconcile us to and give us peace with, God, we would have suffered eternal death - separation from God. We would have all suffered this after death, because we would have died in our sins, unreconciled to God.



Because - in his love - he did not want to see us punished, and die, for our sins.
Like I said, no sin, no sinners, no separation from God.



Yes - the kind of awesome, amazing love which said, these people are sinners and deserve eternal death, which would be punishment for their sins. Because of their sin, that is what is due to them; because of my love, I am not going to let that happen.

God's love is amazing, awesome ans was demonstrated on the cross - John says that this is what love is. The reason that the cross was necessary was because of the sin of mankind.
If we had not sinned, God would not have sent his Son to be a sacrifice for sin.

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Yes, now you are speaking the truth. Praise God.

Theophan said:

Yes, now you are speaking the truth. Praise God.

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I was speaking the truth before. But I, and others, maybe just phrased it differently, or had a different understanding to you.

Basically, I am sure we are all on the same page.

Why did Satan Murder Jesus, Knowing How angry this would make God?
He didn't! Jesus went to the cross willingly to save us from satan. In actuality our sins killed Jesus.
ronandcarol

you gotta die somehow and Jesus had to show what people did to the Divine Word.

These scriptures are a prophecy of the mind of the Jewish leaders who killed Jesus. Verses 1 to 12 reveals the disposition of mind that would knowingly kill someone sent from God. Verses 12 to 20 show their thinking while Jesus was with them. Verses 21 to 24 is the the sage's summary and wise review.

You might recall these very thoughts coming from Jesus' enemies in the Gospels. The unrepentant thief who was crucified on Calvary hill with Jesus was among them.

Wisdom 2
2 For they reasoned unsoundly, saying to themselves,
“Short and sorrowful is our life,
and there is no remedy when a man comes to his end,
and no one has been known to return from Hades.
2 Because we were born by mere chance,
and hereafter we shall be as though we had never been;
because the breath in our nostrils is smoke,
and reason is a spark kindled by the beating of our hearts.
3 When it is extinguished, the body will turn to ashes,
and the spirit will dissolve like empty air.
4 Our name will be forgotten in time,
and no one will remember our works;
our life will pass away like the traces of a cloud,
and be scattered like mist
that is chased by the rays of the sun
and overcome by its heat.
5 For our allotted time is the passing of a shadow,
and there is no return from our death,
because it is sealed up and no one turns back.

6 “Come, therefore, let us enjoy the good things that exist,
and make use of the creation to the full as in youth.
7 Let us take our fill of costly wine and perfumes,
and let no flower of spring pass by us.
8 Let us crown ourselves with rosebuds before they wither.
9 Let none of us fail to share in our revelry,
everywhere let us leave signs of enjoyment,
because this is our portion, and this our lot.
10 Let us oppress the righteous poor man;
let us not spare the widow
nor regard the gray hairs of the aged.
11 But let our might be our law of right,
for what is weak proves itself to be useless.

12 “Let us lie in wait for the righteous man,
because he is inconvenient to us and opposes our actions;
he reproaches us for sins against the law,
and accuses us of sins against our training.
13 He professes to have knowledge of God,
and calls himself a child of the Lord.
14 He became to us a reproof of our thoughts;
15 the very sight of him is a burden to us,
because his manner of life is unlike that of others,
and his ways are strange.
16 We are considered by him as something base,
and he avoids our ways as unclean;
he calls the last end of the righteous happy,
and boasts that God is his father.
17 Let us see if his words are true,
and let us test what will happen at the end of his life;
18 for if the righteous man is God’s son, he will help him,
and will deliver him from the hand of his adversaries.
19 Let us test him with insult and torture,
that we may find out how gentle he is,
and make trial of his forbearance.
20 Let us condemn him to a shameful death,
for, according to what he says, he will be protected.”


21 Thus they reasoned, but they were led astray,
for their wickedness blinded them,
22 and they did not know the secret purposes of God,
nor hope for the wages of holiness,
nor discern the prize for blameless souls;
23 for God created man for incorruption,
and made him in the image of his own eternity,
24 but through the devil’s envy death entered the world,
and those who belong to his party experience it.