Are professed Christians who deliberately practice sin saved?

Blood Bought 1953

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No No No!!! Not talking about you!! I am talking about those that have never seen their hopeless sinful state before a Holy God......the totally lost ,no sense of sin,blinded by Satan......not you



Time to go to Bob Evans.....yummy!.....just for the record, if any of my posts to you appear to be Mean.....know that there has been a misunderstanding....I would not be mean to you....ever. I enjoy debating with you!God bless
 
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1stcenturylady

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Other than pretty ness, what do you see when you look in the mirror......a lost sinner saved by the Grace of God alone or somebody who has “ made it” and is now worthy to walk through those Pearly Gates.Personally, I believe I am “made worthy” by the Blood of the Lamb.And that alone. What are your thoughts?

I've told you already, many times.
 
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Lily of Valleys

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Romans 7-12 is to much to quote.
How then do you explain Romans 8 where Paul said if you are living according to the flesh you must die and only those who are being led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God?

So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (Romans 8:12-14 NASB)
 
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Lily of Valleys

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Then Hebrews 10:26-27 has no value serving no real purpose.
I asked a question in the OP, and would like an answer that is consistent with the scripture, so I posted a few Bible passages that are relevant to the topic for everyone to consider, Hebrews 10:26-27 is just one of them. If there is at least one Bible passage that speaks against an answer without any reasonable explanation, then that answer cannot be the correct answer.

For example, if someone answers "yes" for the OP, then there needs to be an explanation how the following passage would support a "yes" answer:

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27 NASB)

Would that not be No a Christian can't practice sin? What discussion can there be about no? Maybe you might be asking can or does a Christian commit sin. The answer to that would be obvious yes to all and is discussed in the Bible. That is a much different issue than practice sin. Is all sin wilful in that it is purposefully planned out? No. Is all sin wilful in that we do it? Yes. So isn't your position that all are wicked because we sin thus are not Christian and lost (not redeemed)?
I don't have any fixed position. That's why this thread exists. I would like to explore different ideas from different people and see if something would click so that I will have an answer for that.
 
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Lily of Valleys

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So you want to say the individual wasn't a Christian. Why? Paul doesn't.
It depends on how you define "Christian". The OP is about whether someone who deliberately practice sin will be saved. So the question is whether the individual is saved, not whether the individual is "Christian". Where did Paul say the person who slept with his father's wife was saved?
 
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1stcenturylady

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I asked a question in the OP, and would like an answer that is consistent with the scripture, so I posted a few Bible passages that are relevant to the topic for everyone to consider, Hebrews 10:26-27 is just one of them. If there is at least one Bible passage that speaks against an answer without any reasonable explanation, then that answer cannot be the correct answer.

For example, if someone answers "yes" for the OP, then there needs to be an explanation how the following passage would support a "yes" answer:

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27 NASB)


I don't have any fixed position. That's why this thread exists. I would like to explore different ideas from different people and see if something would click so that I will have an answer for that.

There is an immense difference between willful sin, and non-willful sin. And there is a difference. In the Old Testament there WAS a sacrifice for UNINTENTIONAL sin, but there was NO sacrifice for willful sin - they killed them. Read Numbers 15:22 to the end.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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There is an immense difference between willful sin, and non-willful sin. And there is a difference. In the Old Testament there WAS a sacrifice for UNINTENTIONAL sin, but there was NO sacrifice for willful sin - they killed them. Read Numbers 15:22 to the end.


Makes me glad we are no longer under the law
 
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Makes me glad we are no longer under the law

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed me from the law of sin and death. Do you know what that means?
 
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Ron Gurley

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"excommunication" is an erroneous doctrine and dogma promulgated by the RCC to take away from God's job of spiritual judgment. This gives more power to the RCC clergy.

1 Cor. 5 (NASB)
12 For what have I (Paul) to do with judging outsiders?
Do you (believers) not judge those who are WITHIN the "church'?
13 But those who are outside, (UNbelieving wicked) God judges.
(SAYING;) "Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the LORD
so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Hebrews 10:30 (NASB)
30 For we know Him who said,
“Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.”
And again,
“The LORD will judge His people.”

Psalm 35:24
Judge me, O Lord my God, according to Your righteousness,
And do not let them rejoice over me.

Psalm 82:1[ Unjust Judgments Rebuked. ] [ A Psalm of Asaph. ]
God takes His stand in His own congregation;
He judges in the midst of the rulers.

Excommunication is the action of the RCC administered upon their member who has refused to repent of his sin and/or who has refused to recant of heretical teaching. This action is the final step of a formal and public removal of the person from the RCC where the Lord's Supper (Communion) is denied to the person and where pronouncement that the person is not a member of the body of Christ. In other words, it is the process where the RCC publically proclaims that an individual is not a "Christian" and is kicked out of the RCC and "church" since the person is remaining in a state of non-repentance.

This does not mean, though, that the person is not welcome in the local "church", for the purpose of this discipline is to bring the person into repentance and reconciliation with God and God's people.

The proper steps of local "church" discipline within the assembly are as follows:

Matt. 18:15-18 "And if your brother sins, go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. 17 And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer. 18 Truly I say to you, whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

So, the proper steps in local "church" are going to the person in private, then with two or more witnesses, then a proclamation to the church if he will not repent. The elders of the church should be involved in this process.

What is excommunication? | CARM.org
 
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How then do you explain Romans 8 where Paul said if you are living according to the flesh you must die and only those who are being led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God?

So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. (Romans 8:12-14 NASB)
I don't think you understand what Paul said a few short verses prior in 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Please note all the above is written in a current active tense. Paul isn't talking about his previous life as a Pharisee. Paul is talking about our dual nature and the all out war against our soul for separation from God and destruction. Paul isn't confessing to practicing on going sin in verse 15.

So what is Paul saying in verses 17-21? Is he saying he isn't a Christian because sin dwells in him? No. He's merely admitting he has a problem manifesting in his flesh. He says clearly it's not him. How can this be? Is it the body that has been made righteous? It isn't the body that is born again (John 3). It's the person (soul) that's born again. We have our body that follows pleasure until we depart from it upon its actual demise. The soul never dies. Yes I understand the problem that creates for those who don't understand death. They only relate death to the body.

Neither Paul nor I are granting permission to practice or even commit sin as a Christian. Do we or Paul? Read the passage.

In verse 25 Paul says he serves both God and sin. Now that's a real eye opener especially for those who focus on the deeds of the flesh. Granted what is in the heart manifest in the flesh. For me I find it much easier to not sin the more I disassociate and cloister (seclude or shut up in) from the world. I believe God meant us to be social creatures. I must interact with the world to supply my needs. If I eat I need toilet paper or leaves. I am also required to wear clothes by civil law. Clothes are very nice when it's cold, too.;)

In verse 8:1 is Paul now talking about both Christians and unregenerate people? Why would he do that? Paul is writing to Christians. It must be obvious that Paul is saying some Christians don't follow the Holy Spirit. It should also be obvious that those who aren't must be following something else. The law tries to regulate the flesh. The law failed miserably at this. The law didn't affect the soul and failed (verse 8:3). Is the law fulfilled in our flesh? Never! The body isn't subject to the law (verses 6-8).

I could say much more, but this post is to long already. I think I've said enough to stir mind in the right direction.
 
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1stcenturylady

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I don't think you understand what Paul said a few short verses prior in 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Please note all the above is written in a current active tense. Paul isn't talking about his previous life as a Pharisee. Paul is talking about our dual nature and the all out war against our soul for separation from God and destruction. Paul isn't confessing to practicing on going sin in verse 15.

So what is Paul saying in verses 17-21? Is he saying he isn't a Christian because sin dwells in him? No. He's merely admitting he has a problem manifesting in his flesh. He says clearly it's not him. How can this be? Is it the body that has been made righteous? It isn't the body that is born again (John 3). It's the person (soul) that's born again. We have our body that follows pleasure until we depart from it upon its actual demise. The soul never dies. Yes I understand the problem that creates for those who don't understand death. They only relate death to the body.

Neither Paul nor I are granting permission to practice or even commit sin as a Christian. Do we or Paul? Read the passage.

In verse 25 Paul says he serves both God and sin. Now that's a real eye opener especially for those who focus on the deeds of the flesh. Granted what is in the heart manifest in the flesh. For me I find it much easier to not sin the more I disassociate and cloister (seclude or shut up in) from the world. I believe God meant us to be social creatures. I must interact with the world to supply my needs. If I eat I need toilet paper or leaves. I am also required to wear clothes by civil law. Clothes are very nice when it's cold, too.;)

In verse 8:1 is Paul now talking about both Christians and unregenerate people? Why would he do that? Paul is writing to Christians. It must be obvious that Paul is saying some Christians don't follow the Holy Spirit. It should also be obvious that those who aren't must be following something else. The law tries to regulate the flesh. The law failed miserably at this. The law didn't affect the soul and failed (verse 8:3). Is the law fulfilled in our flesh? Never! The body isn't subject to the law (verses 6-8).

I could say much more, but this post is to long already. I think I've said enough to stir mind in the right direction.

Romans 8:
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
 
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I asked a question in the OP, and would like an answer that is consistent with the scripture, so I posted a few Bible passages that are relevant to the topic for everyone to consider, Hebrews 10:26-27 is just one of them. If there is at least one Bible passage that speaks against an answer without any reasonable explanation, then that answer cannot be the correct answer.

For example, if someone answers "yes" for the OP, then there needs to be an explanation how the following passage would support a "yes" answer:

For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. (Hebrews 10:26-27 NASB)


I don't have any fixed position. That's why this thread exists. I would like to explore different ideas from different people and see if something would click so that I will have an answer for that.
That is reasonably untrue because sin must be defined for Hebrews 10:26-27 to have any meaning. Then it also must be a practiced sin. I've noticed you jump on something at the mere mention of a word as sin. Is this a select your sin for condemnation thread?

The people posting here are at least saying they're Christian (personally I don't believe that is true). In posting a passage containing actions as wrong you indeed are defining sin and also limiting sin to those actions listed. Surely a Christian would agree those things are sin and not practice them. Please note I didn't say never commit any of them. No I'm not granting permission to sin or practice sin. I refer you back to my quoted passage in my post above from Romans.
 
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Romans 8:
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Unfortunately Paul is talking about the Christian and not the wicked.
 
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It depends on how you define "Christian". The OP is about whether someone who deliberately practice sin will be saved. So the question is whether the individual is saved, not whether the individual is "Christian". Where did Paul say the person who slept with his father's wife was saved?
True about the definition of Christian. Being in a garage doesn't make a jack a vehicle.

A person already in our enemy's control can't be turned over to him for control (affliction).
 
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The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed me from the law of sin and death. Do you know what that means?
Sure do. It doesn't mean my body doesn't manifest sin. It also doesn't mean my soul never submits to its temptations. James 1 and 2
 
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Unfortunately Paul is talking about the Christian and not the wicked.

What were you talking about in Romans 7? A Christian, or the wicked? I know what I think, but what do you?
 
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Sure do. It doesn't mean my body doesn't manifest sin. It also doesn't mean my soul never submits to its temptations. James 1 and 2

It means your NATURE doesn't manifest sin. Whether of the body or the mind.
 
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Makes me glad we are no longer under the law

But if you sin, doesn't that put you back under the law, for sin is lawlessness. When you have no desire to sin, that is when you are no longer having to be told by the law to not sin. That is why a Christian is not under the law - if the Spirit is leading them, who needs the law?
 
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What were you talking about in Romans 7? A Christian, or the wicked? I know what I think, but what do you?
Paul is speaking in the present tense which would mean as a Christian. The context of 7:15-8:8 demands this.
 
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Paul is speaking in the present tense which would mean as a Christian. The context of 7:15-8:8 demands this.

Paul is concluding his discourse on the LAW. When he was a Pharisee, before Christ, this was his experience trying to keep the law with his still carnal nature. He's pointing out that it is not the law that was wrong, it was sin in us. Chapter 8 begins the life of a Christian, no longer under the law of sin and death, but in the Spirit. That is because the Holy Spirit kills the desire to sin, thus taking care of the problem of sin.
 
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