War

Superhero Sam said:

Why not take the midianite boys in too? It must have been very horrible for the girls to have seen the israelites execute all their brothers.

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If they had been allowed to continue, they would have created an untenable situation because of their serving other gods and their loyalty against Israel - as in doing whatever they could to lead Israelites astray in any way they could,
and in seeking their own revenge against Israel however they could find a way, even decades later if they were allowed to live ; that and probably several other reasons it was impossible in YHWH'S Purpose and Plan , which they all agreed with - (and which in other days and times, when Israel disobeyed YHWH, brought much death and idolatry to Israel, and even YHWH'S Just Judgment (maybe even wrath for a time) ....
The way of life in those centuries(for the people of YHWH, and the pagans, all, and the way of Faith following YHWH, and the depth of sin and wickedness in the other countries (gentiles), and the provisions and directions (specific and strict) of YHWH,
are all beyond comprehension today unless YHWH grants an avenue to learn of it....

yeshuaslavejeff said:

If they had been allowed to continue, they would have created an untenable situation because of their serving other gods and their loyalty against Israel - as in doing whatever they could to lead Israelites astray in any way they could,
and in seeking their own revenge against Israel however they could find a way, even decades later if they were allowed to live ; that and probably several other reasons it was impossible in YHWH'S Purpose and Plan , which they all agreed with - (and which in other days and times, when Israel disobeyed YHWH, brought much death and idolatry to Israel, and even YHWH'S Just Judgment (maybe even wrath for a time) ....
The way of life in those centuries(for the people of YHWH, and the pagans, all, and the way of Faith following YHWH, and the depth of sin and wickedness in the other countries (gentiles), and the provisions and directions (specific and strict) of YHWH,
are all beyond comprehension today unless YHWH grants an avenue to learn of it....

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What pro life extremists do is sinful and wicked. Pacifism is Christian.

Superhero Sam said:

What pro life extremists do is sinful and wicked. Pacifism is Christian.

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We are not (or I am not) talking about any pro life extremists.
Why are you ? Did someone bring that up ?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

We are not (or I am not) talking about any pro life extremists.
Why are you ? Did someone bring that up ?

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Pacifism is the christian stance.
Assassination of George Tiller - Wikipedia

Tony Perkins, President of the Family Research Council, condemned the killing, saying,

We are stunned at today's news. As Christians we pray and look toward the end of all violence and for the saving of souls, not the taking of human life. George Tiller was a man who we publicly sought to stop through legal and peaceful means. We strongly condemn the actions taken today by this vigilante killer and we pray for the Tiller family and for the nation that we might once again be a nation that values all human life, both born and unborn.[45]

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Superhero Sam said:

I would never be a soldier because I pray for the salvation of others.

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Without some brave Soldiers to protect us here we would not be around for long.
M-Bob

W2L said:

Forgive me if if i'm in the wrong forum with this. If i am please let me know and i'll have staff move it. Thank you.

This thread addresses the morality of war. How can we support war? Shouldn't we be praying instead of bombing people?

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What would Jesus do and instruct us to do.

If people say Jesus will instruct us to go to war, then they have the wrong Jesus.

The antithesis Jesus, the Antichrist, who has an outward lamb like appearance, but speaks like a dragon will surely instruct people to go to war.

War according to God is genocide, it has no right or wrong parties to it, for war is an act of desecration of his creation, by people who wilfully choose to be Warmongers, it is not an act of war against man, but an act of war against God himself.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)

Superhero Sam said:

Pacifism is the christian stance.

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We as Christians are supposed to be lambs taken to the slaughter.

Superhero Sam said:

Pacifism is the christian stance.

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Jesus told his disciples to go and get swords. How many righteous wars are there in the OT? There are such things as just wars. If the barbarians are riding over the hills to kill you, rape your wife and your daughters, and carry your sons away as slaves, it would be immoral not to fight back.

Open Heart said:

Jesus told his disciples to go and get swords.

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Did he tell them to use swords?
Did he tell them to use swords to kill or to maim?

Did he instruct them to only carry them as a deterrent, but to strictly not use them.

What happened to Peter when he tried to use a sword?
What did Jesus say about those who kill by the sword?

Are there just wars as you say below.....

Open Heart said:

There are such things as just wars.

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To Jesus there is no just killing. Did you just teach others something that Jesus taught against?

If so, now that your heart's intentions are disclosed, will you heartfully repent or continue to boastfully defend your compromised position?

This is where we are all judged. You made a sinful comment that requires the heart to repent and not the lips to talk their way out of it to save face.

What will you do now?

Will you make up with Jesus or will you strike one of his sheep for correcting you?

Open Heart said:

Jesus told his disciples to go and get swords. How many righteous wars are there in the OT? There are such things as just wars. If the barbarians are riding over the hills to kill you, rape your wife and your daughters, and carry your sons away as slaves, it would be immoral not to fight back.

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There aren't many "righteous" wars in the OT, and they are all clearly of one special case: Establishing the physical boundaries of the nation of Israel. The OT is not an example that can be used in any other situation.

If you want to argue the morality of war in some other way, have at it. But the OT provides no such example.

Open Heart said:

Jesus told his disciples to go and get swords. How many righteous wars are there in the OT? There are such things as just wars. If the barbarians are riding over the hills to kill you, rape your wife and your daughters, and carry your sons away as slaves, it would be immoral not to fight back.

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Assassination of George Tiller - Wikipedia

Tony Perkins, President of the Family Research Council, condemned the killing, saying,

We are stunned at today's news. As Christians we pray and look toward the end of all violence and for the saving of souls, not the taking of human life. George Tiller was a man who we publicly sought to stop through legal and peaceful means. We strongly condemn the actions taken today by this vigilante killer and we pray for the Tiller family and for the nation that we might once again be a nation that values all human life, both born and unborn.[45]

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RDKirk said:

There aren't many "righteous" wars in the OT

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Throughout the years of wandering, Israel was attacked by Canaanites, such as the Amalekites. The Amalekites picked off the women, children, old, and sick at the back of the procession, causing incredible fear. War against them was justified.

The Times said:

Did he tell them to use swords?

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What do you think the swords were for? Wall decorations? They were for self defense in case anyone messed with them after Jesus' arrest.

Open Heart said:

What do you think the swords were for? Wall decorations? They were for self defense in case anyone messed with them after Jesus' arrest.

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Sorry, no, not at all.

Whatever teacher or group told you that lied outright.

The Times said:

We as Christians are supposed to be lambs taken to the slaughter.

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His Word says we who are ecclesia ARE sheep being slaughtered or led to slaughter every day.
Not "supposed to be".
i.e. people don't get to choose to be or not if they are ecclesia.

The Times said:

If people say Jesus will instruct us to go to war, then they have the wrong Jesus.

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There are groups that actually want and cause wars, yet call themselves something like 'Christian' (but not really Christian).
They often take both sides in conflict, so no matter what side wins, they are in power with them, or try to be.
And they will say anything (lie, cheat, steal, kill) to promote their own interests, even to the point of slaughtering their own people with no reason to do so.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Sorry, no, not at all.

Whatever teacher or group told you that lied outright.

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I asked a question. What do you think the swords were for?

Open Heart said:

What do you think the swords were for? Wall decorations? They were for self defense in case anyone messed with them after Jesus' arrest.

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Pro life extremist actions are sinful.

This is the existential problem with the idea of "just war" for Christians:

Justice is a virtue, and as a virtue, justice must be sought. If there is a just war that can be found, then a virtuous man is obligated to seek it out and wage it.

In practice, this gives rise to men in power--who want to increase and solidify their power--to see wars that may have other side benefits as also being just, one way or another...just look it at the right way, tweak a circumstance here and there. Convince the rabble that their cause is just...what virtuous man can deny a just war?

I've had the opportunity to browse the CIA classified library...you may be shocked to know how often that's been done, and the US are supposed to be the "good guys."

RDKirk said:

This is the existential problem with the idea of "just war" for Christians:

Justice is a virtue, and as a virtue, justice must be sought. If there is a just war that can be found, then a virtuous man is obligated to seek it out and wage it.

In practice, this gives rise to men in power--who want to increase and solidify their power--to see wars that may have other side benefits as also being just, one way or another...just look it at the right way, tweak a circumstance here and there. Convince the rabble that their cause is just...what virtuous man can deny a just war?

I've had the opportunity to browse the CIA classified library...you may be shocked to know how often that's been done, and the US are supposed to be the "good guys."

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Is the war in Iraq a just war?

Again, we make no attempt to justify war in general. There is no way to mitigate the horror and tragedy that war brings. But we do recognize that, at times, war can be justified. We list the following six guidelines to bring war under the rule of justice:

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What we learn from such passages is that war is necessary at times. When the Philistines took up arms against Israel in 1 Samuel 17:1, Israel had to either fight a necessary war or capitulate to the enemy. The same was true in 1938 when the Germans marched into Austria. While war is terrible, there is nothing inherently evil with it per se. In a fallen world, war is inevitable (Luke 21:9-10).

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