love and renunciation

LucasH · Nov 21, 2017

Hello friends,

Im new to the forum, and I gotta admit this area of the message board is what really made me join - debates and theorising about scripture and its interpretation may have their place, but what matters most to me is learning to live according to Jesus' teaching and, no less importantly, by his example..

I'm very interested in the issue of renunciation... i've been a compulsive shopper for much of my life; a problem I developed after giving up alcohol, so very much an addiction... anyway, in my recovery I've struggled with simplifying my life and taming my grasping at the 'things of the world', but I've also found that, for me, it has been the most powerful means to get closer to God...

So has anyone else here worked on minimising and simplifying - on implementing some level of renunciation into their lives? I'd love to hear about your experiences?

Love,
Lucas

~Anastasia~ · Nov 21, 2017

LucasH said:
Hello friends,

Im new to the forum, and I gotta admit this area of the message board is what really made me join - debates and theorising about scripture and its interpretation may have their place, but what matters most to me is learning to live according to Jesus' teaching and, no less importantly, by his example..

I'm very interested in the issue of renunciation... i've been a compulsive shopper for much of my life; a problem I developed after giving up alcohol, so very much an addiction... anyway, in my recovery I've struggled with simplifying my life and taming my grasping at the 'things of the world', but I've also found that, for me, it has been the most powerful means to get closer to God...

So has anyone else here worked on minimising and simplifying - on implementing some level of renunciation into their lives? I'd love to hear about your experiences?

Love,
Lucas

Hello Lucas, and welcome to CF!

I was just going to mention, you might enjoy reading sayings by the Desert Fathers, or perhaps the writings of Orthodox monastics on simplicity. They tend to be more severe than someone living in the world needs to or can be, but if you keep that in mind, you might really enjoy some of their thoughts.

Again, welcome to CF! God be with you!

Sarah G · Nov 21, 2017

Hi Lucas, welcome to CF.
Strangely it seems to have been a while since I've even heard the word 'renunciation'. It is certainly something that has always interested me. I have always been attracted to paths of renunciation and asceticism although I don't seem to be good at sticking to my intentions (or finding and maintaining balance). I think a fairly large part of spiritual life should be renunciation of illicit and worldly desires and habits. I have high ideals in this regard but fail to stick to real ascetic living for more than three months at a time, to be honest. Simple living, high thinking is the most I can realistically aspire to at this stage in my life. It is very difficult to be in the world but not of the world, in my opinion. I am sure it is easier in a convent or monastery but from what I have learned nuns and monks fight a constant internal battle of spirit against mind and flesh too. One might think that the way of a solitary ascetic was simple enough but then one must contend with loneliness, the human need for companionship and the practical difficulties of isolation.
Some books I like on these subjects are:
http://www.orthodoxebooks.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/Way Of The Ascetics - Tito Colliander.pdf
http://jbburnett.com/resources/french_way_of_a_pilgrim.pdf

Winken · Nov 21, 2017

I don't renounce anything. God is the Great Renouncer. He renounced sin at the Cross. He GRANTED eternal life for all of us who believe.

LucasH · Nov 22, 2017

Sarah G said:
Hi Lucas, welcome to CF.
Strangely it seems to have been a while since I've even heard the word 'renunciation'. It is certainly something that has always interested me. I have always been attracted to paths of renunciation and asceticism although I don't seem to be good at sticking to my intentions (or finding and maintaining balance). I think a fairly large part of spiritual life should be renunciation of illicit and worldly desires and habits. I have high ideals in this regard but fail to stick to real ascetic living for more than three months at a time, to be honest. Simple living, high thinking is the most I can realistically aspire to at this stage in my life. It is very difficult to be in the world but not of the world, in my opinion. I am sure it is easier in a convent or monastery but from what I have learned nuns and monks fight a constant internal battle of spirit against mind and flesh too. One might think that the way of a solitary ascetic was simple enough but then one must contend with loneliness, the human need for companionship and the practical difficulties of isolation.
Some books I like on these subjects are:
http://www.orthodoxebooks.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/Way Of The Ascetics - Tito Colliander.pdf
http://jbburnett.com/resources/french_way_of_a_pilgrim.pdf

Hi there Anastasia and Sarah,

Thanks so much for these resources, and for you're thoughtful posts

I've been a big admirer of the desert fathers tradition for some time... some years ago I read that little book - 'Way of the Ascetics' - and it made a huge impact on me... it's funny that we don't hear more about renunciation in Christian circles, as it is so central and fundamental to Christ's teachings (in my little opinion, at least!)... the challenge of loneliness, I suspect, is one of the key obstacles... I'm very drawn to mystical traditions from various schools, and i think that this matter of overcoming the 'need' for love is the biggest challenge to finding God within... on my own journey, I've certainly found that the yearning to be loved is in some ways the hunger that underpins all the others...

Anyhooo... the journey continues

.... thanks for much for your response...

Hugs,
Lucas

~Anastasia~ · Nov 22, 2017

LucasH said:
Hi there Anastasia and Sarah,

Thanks so much for these resources, and for you're thoughtful posts I've been a big admirer of the desert fathers tradition for some time... some years ago I read that little book - 'Way of the Ascetics' - and it made a huge impact on me... it's funny that we don't hear more about renunciation in Christian circles, as it is so central and fundamental to Christ's teachings (in my little opinion, at least!)... the challenge of loneliness, I suspect, is one of the key obstacles... I'm very drawn to mystical traditions from various schools, and i think that this matter of overcoming the 'need' for love is the biggest challenge to finding God within... on my own journey, I've certainly found that the yearning to be loved is in some ways the hunger that underpins all the others...

Anyhooo... the journey continues .... thanks for much for your response...

Hugs,
Lucas

God be with you.

One tiny bit I will share, only because it wasn't something I was warned of and it could have benefited me. If you choose to pursue the practices of the mystics, having a spiritual father (or mother) who is experienced in the path who keeps tabs on you is a good protection to have.

I suppose the same is true with asceticism as well, just that I initially approached from the other side.

There are dragons and vipers in the desert, y'know?

Peace to you, and God be with you!

joshcorn · Nov 22, 2017

This song helped me

joshcorn · Nov 22, 2017

asceticism ,No that is a subject I like to talk about.If you have eyes to you see it .All through the Bible you can see this and the people who did it.David in the bible did it.Moses did it,Abraham did it and many more.Moses meet face to face with God a lot.
The bible says no man can see God,but Moses knew how to get in the spirit and this is where you see him.The bible say come up here and I will show you things to come.The bible says we are seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus. it also says come boldly before His throne.How else can you do this unless you are in the spirit.The bible says walk in the spirit.I have been doing this for years and so are my more Christians.For many years many have not said anything about their experiences because they would be called crazy.
But I feel there is a great move of God on I would call it an awaking to these truths.The internet is flooded about this .Christian that have been doing this are meeting online to teach others who have experienced it to grow any develop it as a group.I will leave a link show you one example.

LucasH · Nov 23, 2017

Thanks Joshcorn and Anastasia... I really appreciate your thoughts... Ill take a look at that video now

joshcorn · Nov 25, 2017

LucasH · Nov 26, 2017

Hi there Joshcorn... Thanks so much for this video... I love it! And it makes great sense to me... it's so important to have guidance on properly interpreting the original meaning and intent of scripture - so much of it gets lost and misinterpreted as it is passed down through generations and languages... thanks you!

~Anastasia~ · Nov 26, 2017

Since this is the discipleship forum, @LucasH if you don't mind, I'll address a question I saw you ask elsewhere. It wouldn't be appropriate for me to reply there. But you were asking about silence in prayer as a means to draw close to God?

There is a history of mystical practices in your own tradition (which I read and followed with profound effect, before I even knew "who taught what" ... it was a book by Mme. Guyon on prayer), as well as the practice of hesychasm in Orthodoxy - from prayer of the heart to stillness in prayer. These are very - effective. Though as with everything, discernment is essential and guidance from a mentor is recommended. But these practices have been used for centuries and are very profound. Just wanted to mention that.

Homer Les · Dec 7, 2017

I have to admit that in Bible college I was quite drawn to the desert fathers. I appreciated the fact that these people lived their faith and then wrote about it. Not like today where there is so much writing and not much living.

Our experience of renunciation, or giving up all as we like to see it, was led by God. We certainly weren't looking for the path of the cross but God put it before us. In hindsight I can see how He was setting us up for our journey through the desert by having us read Guyon, a Kempis, Tozer, Chambers and others. I suspect that God wanted to update the world that this path of faith has not been forgotten or lost. There are those of us that still long for all of Him and are willing to give up all for Him. It is not easy but very fulfilling.

The desert is both beautiful and terrifying at the same time. Only those who have been there can truly convey just what it is like. I can only say that what we have experienced is that He never left us for a moment. He was always with us as we journeyed through the valley of despair!

I encourage you to continue to follow Him. Even if He leads you to give up all. I know it is very scary but you can trust Him. I promise you He will never leave nor forsake you as you obey Him.

God bless.
Homer Les and Wanda Ring

~Anastasia~ · Dec 7, 2017

Ah, just saw this post. Your reading list sounds like mine of many years ago. Guyon especially changed my life, but also Tozer, Chambers, et al. Brother Lawrence's little book was also outstanding. And later the desert fathers.

You might like reading some of the later Orthodox monastics and Saints as well. They are deeply rooted in the traditions of the desert fathers.

Tito Collander's The Way of the Ascetic is free online. Actually the Philokalia (at least the volumes that have been translated - and these are not "new" but go all the way back) are free online too. You might find St. Porphyrios and St Paisios of particular interest too, but there are many others. So many others.

You're right that LIVING the faith is essential. Knowing it intellectually is of little use. I know many are trying to recapture the old ways, but so far there is often precious little teaching on how to do so, if you don't know where to look.

God be with you.

Homer Les said:
I have to admit that in Bible college I was quite drawn to the desert fathers. I appreciated the fact that these people lived their faith and then wrote about it. Not like today where there is so much writing and not much living.

Our experience of renunciation, or giving up all as we like to see it, was led by God. We certainly weren't looking for the path of the cross but God put it before us. In hindsight I can see how He was setting us up for our journey through the desert by having us read Guyon, a Kempis, Tozer, Chambers and others. I suspect that God wanted to update the world that this path of faith has not been forgotten or lost. There are those of us that still long for all of Him and are willing to give up all for Him. It is not easy but very fulfilling.

The desert is both beautiful and terrifying at the same time. Only those who have been there can truly convey just what it is like. I can only say that what we have experienced is that He never left us for a moment. He was always with us as we journeyed through the valley of despair!

I encourage you to continue to follow Him. Even if He leads you to give up all. I know it is very scary but you can trust Him. I promise you He will never leave nor forsake you as you obey Him.

God bless.
Homer Les and Wanda Ring

LucasH · Dec 7, 2017

Thanks so much for this post @Homer Les and @Anastasia... I've had a rough couple of days and haven't been on the forum, and this was just what I needed to call me back to the path... I've even ordered a couple of the books you reference... you made my day!
Hugs,
Lucas

~Anastasia~ · Dec 7, 2017

LucasH said:
Thanks so much for this post @Homer Les and @Anastasia... I've had a rough couple of days and haven't been on the forum, and this was just what I needed to call me back to the path... I've even ordered a couple of the books you reference... you made my day!
Hugs,
Lucas

God be with you! Prayers for you.

Homer Les · Dec 7, 2017

Amen! Glad to here it! I know Jesus will be with you.

love and renunciation

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