Should a woman think marriage = kids? (as in won't marry unless kids are promised)

I think for Christians, the usual course of things would be for marriage to be open to children.

That doesn't mean it must happen, or that I think having them in your preferred timing is wrong. Just that I think that part of what marriage is usually about is procreation.

But I don't think this is as gendered as you suggest. Many women don't want children, or don't want as many children as their husbands do. Many women struggle with pressure, guilt-tripping, being resented and so forth about having more children.

What kind of person loves Jesus yet acts like that? Someone who's still working through the issues. Loving Jesus doesn't make us instantly mature.

I think if you know having children is really important to you, looking for a spouse to whom it's also really important makes good sense. Why marry someone whose life goals are totally incompatible with yours?

The wife must have same thinking as her husband.

Also some women want kids, just not the husband to go with it.

NothingIsImpossible said:

I know my view is a bit controversial but I've noticed many people are willing to split over issues like having kids. Or in most cases not even marry the person if they don't want kids. Do you think marriage equals having kids? Or do you believe something else?

I'll start with the obvious, the desire a woman has to have a child is crazy strong. So not having a kid is hard to accept. Which is why I find women to be so kid crazy that they ignore logic or reason on the issue. When I was looking for a good christian wife online I got no messages from anyone when my profile said "Wants kids: No". This went on for months. And the moment I switched it to "Wants kids: Maybe", suddenly I got a message every week from someone new. And one time (at another site) I said I wanted kids for sure. I got messages daily.

It wasn't shocking though I did feel women are selfish about the issue. They often say the man is the selfish one for not wanting kids. But I fail to see how. When you marry someone you do so because you want to spend your life with them, because you love them. So to say you may/may not love someone based on if they want kids goes to show the real motive behind wanting to get married. The man is simply a means to an end.

The selfishness can be seen in marriages where the husband doesn't want kids or doesn't want them yet. The woman will play games with the husband until he gives in out of guilt (she guilts him). Then when kids are born and the father isn't great at it, then the wife hates the husband despite the fact the wife forced the husband into having kids.

I don't bring all this up because of my marriage, we are doing good about not wanting kids at this point. But a few couples online at a group we are part of are fighting over the issue. One woman said if she would have known her husband didn't want kids, she would have never married him and currently refuses to have sex with him, to do chores, to help him at all until he changes his mind or divorces her.

What kind of women loves Jesus and yet acts like that to her husband? No where does the bible say marriage is about having kids. Kids if anything are a "add on" to marriage. Just like many other things are. They are optional. Now there are a few who obviously reference the whole "Go forth and multiply!" verse, but obviously they take the verse as literal and not a lesson for the people of that time, back when there were very few people on earth.

I often will attribute this attitude women have about kids as the same reason sin was brought into this world. Eve wanting her way and biting the apple and then coursing (can't think of the spelling) Adam into biting it too. Anyways, this thread has no real point other than to share my view on this.

Also I should note life isn't fair. So being told no kids is just part of life. Just as being told you have lost a kidney. Or you have lost a job. Or you have 10 days to live. Sadly more and more christians think life should go how they want instead of realizing its not about what we want, its about what He wants. Maybe He doesn't want some couples to have kids because He has bigger plans.

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Children should be taken as part of the marriage deal by men.
If they have strong objections to children they should make this clear while courting.

try this article New study: the majority (69%) of divorces are initiated by women
It makes interesting reading.

Oh, look, an article blaming women for everything wrong with the world. And employing a bunch of unverified gender stereotypes and unsupported assertions to do it.

How refreshing and original.

The religion has traditionally taught women that wanting marriage and not wanting children is wicked or selfish. So these Christian women you are encountering are just living out the script they have inherited for how "good" women behave and desire

You would have better luck checking out mainline or liberal churches if you want to find women that are OK with childlessness.

NothingIsImpossible said:

I know my view is a bit controversial but I've noticed many people are willing to split over issues like having kids. Or in most cases not even marry the person if they don't want kids. Do you think marriage equals having kids? Or do you believe something else?

I'll start with the obvious, the desire a woman has to have a child is crazy strong. So not having a kid is hard to accept. Which is why I find women to be so kid crazy that they ignore logic or reason on the issue. When I was looking for a good christian wife online I got no messages from anyone when my profile said "Wants kids: No". This went on for months. And the moment I switched it to "Wants kids: Maybe", suddenly I got a message every week from someone new. And one time (at another site) I said I wanted kids for sure. I got messages daily.

It wasn't shocking though I did feel women are selfish about the issue. They often say the man is the selfish one for not wanting kids. But I fail to see how. When you marry someone you do so because you want to spend your life with them, because you love them. So to say you may/may not love someone based on if they want kids goes to show the real motive behind wanting to get married. The man is simply a means to an end.

The selfishness can be seen in marriages where the husband doesn't want kids or doesn't want them yet. The woman will play games with the husband until he gives in out of guilt (she guilts him). Then when kids are born and the father isn't great at it, then the wife hates the husband despite the fact the wife forced the husband into having kids.

I don't bring all this up because of my marriage, we are doing good about not wanting kids at this point. But a few couples online at a group we are part of are fighting over the issue. One woman said if she would have known her husband didn't want kids, she would have never married him and currently refuses to have sex with him, to do chores, to help him at all until he changes his mind or divorces her.

What kind of women loves Jesus and yet acts like that to her husband? No where does the bible say marriage is about having kids. Kids if anything are a "add on" to marriage. Just like many other things are. They are optional. Now there are a few who obviously reference the whole "Go forth and multiply!" verse, but obviously they take the verse as literal and not a lesson for the people of that time, back when there were very few people on earth.

I often will attribute this attitude women have about kids as the same reason sin was brought into this world. Eve wanting her way and biting the apple and then coursing (can't think of the spelling) Adam into biting it too. Anyways, this thread has no real point other than to share my view on this.

Also I should note life isn't fair. So being told no kids is just part of life. Just as being told you have lost a kidney. Or you have lost a job. Or you have 10 days to live. Sadly more and more christians think life should go how they want instead of realizing its not about what we want, its about what He wants. Maybe He doesn't want some couples to have kids because He has bigger plans.

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Wow Ive seen some twisted views of human relations and children but I think you might have topped the class. Oh and way to go with your choice of women hating article to back up your thoughts. Your choice of reading material pretty much explained everything. The real question is why this type of view is so prominent within christian websites

He has some good points, though. So many people get married because they have an idealized image of what life is supposed to be like, instead of genuinely enjoying being with somebody, of finding in another person a helper that compliments you. And religion, especially the more conservative and traditionalist forms, contributes to this problem to a great deal by pressuring people into roles they are ill-suited to fill.

How can you possibly marry someone without knowing their plans for something that important?

Paidiske said:

Oh, look, an article blaming women for everything wrong with the world. And employing a bunch of unverified gender stereotypes and unsupported assertions to do it.

How refreshing and original.

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No it's an article reporting on the statistics of who initiates divorce.

The last comment from this study is very interesting:-
'The reasons behind each breakup are intriguing, but "it [will] take a study with far greater depth of information than [this one] to fully understand why women are less satisfied in marriage than men are," Rosenfeld said in the study.'

Note what it says.

People should be like minded regarding children and pets when getting married. These are important issues. If you can't come to an agreement where both parties are happy, then you probably shouldn't marry.

Having children is not important to everyone, and is not required or guaranteed. If someone knowingly marries someone who has the opposite goal then you are only asking for trouble.

My personal story is that I wanted a lot of kids, like 6-8. I married a man who only wanted one, two at most, was willing to "tolerate" having three. We decided to compromise and agreed to have three. After having our first, he refused to have another. He later changed his mind and we had one more. As it turned out I was physically unable to have very many children anyway. We are divorced (for other reasons), and he has remarried, and has a third child with her. He complains about the burden children are to him and refuses to support them enough, even though he could do better. This man did not really want to be a father to more than one kid, and probably could have been content his whole life with no kids, yet he has three.

So, people should marry someone who is in agreement about children yet open minded, patient, and loving enough to accept however things turn out in case things happen beyond one's control.

Christian couples should have 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 children. Like they always say, the more the merrier. Every child is a blessing from God. And if you ever think you have too many, don’t worry because if you’re saved God will give you the help to take care of them all.

If I found a potential marriage partner and she wanted to focus on her career in lieu of family life, I would automatically reject her. I need a wife who will stay at home, take care of the kids, cook, clean, and be a good housewife.

Tolworth John said:

Children should be taken as part of the marriage deal by men.
If they have strong objections to children they should make this clear while courting.

try this article New study: the majority (69%) of divorces are initiated by women
It makes interesting reading.

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Did you actually read the source articles. Wintery Knight - The site citing the so called research quotes research then goes off on its own little "women are to blame" moan.He states feminism is to blame for divorce rates, as women demand a greater level of freedom. He further states that womens emotions are also to blame saying " In my experience, young, unmarried women are less likely to have reasoned out their own life plan in a practical step-by-step manner". Except none of this was ever referred to in the research he cites.

The two research articles he refers to: One is from the Ruth Institute whos website state that they are a traditional marriage and anti-LGBT platform. They actually did zero independent research to support Wintery Knight's claim. And if they ever do, I think it'd be fair to say they had a biased agenda.

The second "research" quoted by wintery night was from Livescience. Now while their sample sizes were insanely small (100), they did seem to be reasonable in their research - the trouble is it refutes the assertions of the original website you so love.

Live science states

men did substantially less housework than their wives, Men were controlling, and attempted to control every aspect of their wives lives. A Women's quote being: I used to be a very happy, optimistic person, and it was like he was slowly starving my soul. I didn't like the way he treated me, and finally realized that he was abusive

Men in the article were quoted saying: "I want a traditional marriage, but she sees it as controlling"

So shock horror - women dont like being abused and are sick of men who do nothing to contribute to the household even when the wife earns as much and contributes as much to the household. Whats more the wife did the lions share of care for the children.

So gee: women do all the work, look after the kids, earn as much money - and you cant figure out why some women figure they can do better

compassion 4 humanity said:

Christian couples should have 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 children. Like they always say, the more the merrier. Every child is a blessing from God. And if you ever think you have too many, don’t worry because if you’re saved God will give you the help to take care of them all.

If I found a potential marriage partner and she wanted to focus on her career in lieu of family life, I would automatically reject her. I need a wife who will stay at home, take care of the kids, cook, clean, and be a good housewife.

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I think you may need a time machine to go back a century or two. Still each to his/her own. Good luck with your pursuit

In regard to having several children, I don't have the same opinion I did when I was young. We are facing two crises in our world.

The most urgent one is that fact that there is a staggering number of children without families. If everyone who was capable of being a good parent and providing adopted or fostered or sponsored a child or children, then this number would be greatly reduced. We are commanded by Scripture to care for the orphans.

The other is overpopulation. It is a serious issue. The command to "multiply and fill the earth" has been fulfilled. We are done folks. People do need to continue having children so that the human race does not die out, however, we should limit the number of children we have in order to balance out our needs and resources.

In a world where way more children exist than are being provided for, we need to not be greedy in acquiring a large number of biological children for ourselves. We need to be taking care of the ones that already exist.

You need to discuss this in depth before getting married. I don't think you should marry someone who differs greatly in the area of children. It would seem that would cause a lot of emotional strife within the marriage. I don't think it's fair or honest to marry someone knowing they want kids desperately and knowing you really really don't each hoping the other will change. Children don't need to be brought into such a marriage; it's very unhealthy . And if someone entered into marriage leading their partner to believe they are okay with children when they are adamantly nor; that is deceptive .
nothing wrong with not wanting kids just find someone who feels the same .

There are several major topics that need to be discussed honestly before marrying someone. If you had to lie about anything in order to get someone to marry you (bait and switch) ; then it would not be surprising that the other partner of either gender felt upset, betrayed, cruelly used, and lied to (and acts accordingly) when it comes out after marriage. Such a couple would need lots of counseling.

This is a long-long affect - if you have kids, they will be your kids for the rest of your life, and if you don't...that will also affect you for the rest of your life. So yes, it should be one of the most major considerations before marrying someone.

NothingIsImpossible said:

many people are willing to split over issues like having kids.

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If you want children and someone else doesn't, I think you might be wise to not get too involved with the person. I listen to what people say about what they want; and if what they want isn't what I want, I don't play games with it. I leave the person free to do what they will do. Of course, there are things which are not as important as having someone you appreciate; I can easily sacrifice what does not matter

But if someone is opposite me on something which does matter, this is likely to be a matter of values.

Also, there might be someone who doesn't want children, but they would be glad to do God's will despite what might be their own preference. And then can be when they are very surprised at how blessed they are to have their spouse and children

But there are people who are making themselves God's counselor . . . not wise. What God wants is what we need to be ready to be glad to do.

NothingIsImpossible said:

I did feel women are selfish about the issue. They often say the man is the selfish one for not wanting kids.

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It is not new that women can be selfish, or that men can be.

NothingIsImpossible said:

When you marry someone you do so because you want to spend your life with them, because you love them. So to say you may/may not love someone based on if they want kids goes to show the real motive behind wanting to get married.

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You can be wise to not marry someone you love, if the person has a major difference in values. Also, in case you value something and are in love with someone who does not value what really is important, it is possible you have been deceived by the person's charm, and you might need to get out before you find out the hard way who and how that person really is.

NothingIsImpossible said:

The woman will play games with the husband until he gives in out of guilt (she guilts him).

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There are women who have married men because they supposed they could change them later. And they find out how well this worked. I listen to people; I take note of what gets their main attention during conversations; and I listen to what they say about what they want and what they don't want, and their reasons for wanting to get married. How much is it about them . . . how much about God's will?

And it looks like I have saved myself a lot of trouble, by not getting charmed by toys for boys stuff, by the way.

NothingIsImpossible said:

Then when kids are born and the father isn't great at it, then the wife hates the husband despite the fact the wife forced the husband into having kids.

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So, if a husband is a Jesus love person, he knows how to love any and all people. And Jesus in us is very much about children; so how does a woman marry a man and not know he does not know how to love? Jesus makes us all able to be good with children, especially maturing as their example >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

NothingIsImpossible said:

One woman said if she would have known her husband didn't want kids, she would have never married him and currently refuses to have sex with him, to do chores, to help him at all until he changes his mind or divorces her.

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This is what humans of this world can do. This does not represent any and all women, though. Also, the man could have made his effort to make sure she knew about him.

NothingIsImpossible said:

What kind of women loves Jesus and yet acts like that to her husband?

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And what man is going to spend enough time with a woman and not make sure she knows where he is at? Our character . . . our real nature . . . can be what decides who we are attracted to. If you are being honest with God and obeying how He guides you, He will guide you according to what He knows about people. So, if I get with a wrong person, somehow, I consider myself responsible and in need of correction so I can not keep on fooling myself, like this

No where does the bible say marriage is about having kids.

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How about Malachi 2:15?

Of course, I understand and offer that this does not mean that marriage is all about having children. But we see how the couple has a remnant of the Holy Spirit making them one so they can bring up children of God's Spirit and love. And so, there is how they become intimate in God's love, and their relating feeds the children so the children know how to love, so they then can get with the right ones and do well in marriage.