Grand Canyon Disproves Creationism

omega2xx

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Again, please fix your quote tags. It's a pain to go through and copy/paste everything because you're double-quoting. All you need is a single set of quote tags around each statement that you want to talk about.


Citation needed.


Radioactive decay produces heat. We know how much heat each step in any given decay chain produces. If all of the radioactive decay that appears to have occurred did so in 6000 years, the heat produced would be enough to melt the planet.


Using a dating method that is known to only produce viable results on samples over a certain age to date modern rocks is dishonest. Either they deliberately chose to use the wrong tool for the job in order to get poor results or they misrepresented their credentials as geologists. Either way, they lied. Plain and simple.


I, and others, have many times. Still waiting for the same from you. If you're too lazy to use the search function, that's not my problem. I'm sick of retyping the same explanations for every new user who comes in spouting the same tired old PRATTs.


Right back atcha.


So was it formed in the flood or created? And if it was created, where did the fossils come from? Why would God place them there?


Have you seen any scientific evidence? Ever? Again, it's not my responsibility to educate you on mainstream scientific thought. It's well-established, widely available, and explained far better than I can in the confines of this forum. If you have specific points that you'd like to debate, I'm happy to do so, but please provide references for your claims and I will do my best to do the same. Please note that "Godddit" is not a scientifically valid claim. It may or may not be true, but there is no way to evaluate it scientifically.


If it's irrelevant, why did you bring it up first?


Irrelevant to the point being made. You claimed that the fossils had to be formed in a flood because they need mud. I said there are more ways to get mud than floods. What do transitional fossils have to do with that?

You are good about me requiring to provide evidence, but you are not good at providing the evidence for what you say. That makes this discussion a waste of time.

Have a + day.
 
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GBTG

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Riddle me this... What is the length of a cubit?

Genesis 7:20 "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered."

Mountains in Hebrew can also be translated as "hills". If you want to know if the flood was global or local all you need do is look at the length of a cubit...

Your biblical answer is 15 cubits!

This a grand canyon does not make and is nonsense, scientifically. Anything other than 15 cubits is not biblical...

Regards, GBTG
 
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omega2xx

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Riddle me this... What is the length of a cubit?
There are several guesses. l The b est on is 18 inches.

Genesis 7:20 "Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered."

Mountains in Hebrew can also be translated as "hills". If you want to know if the flood was global or local all you need do is look at the length of a cubit...


If you want to know if the flood was local or global, read the Bible.

Your biblical answer is 15 cubits!

This a grand canyon does not make and is nonsense, scientifically. Anything other than 15 cubits is not biblical...

Regards, GBTG
 
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GBTG

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Thank you Omega2xx,

Cubits actually vary by geographical area or race.

Hebrew (short) 17.5 inches
Egyptian 17.6 inches
Common (short) 18 inches
Babylonian (long) 19.8 inches
Hebrew (long) 20.4 inches
Egyptian (long) 20.6 inches

The cubit was a measurement from the elbow to the tip of the fingers. Now that we have a measurement we can do some math! I am going to use the longest one, so that I can represent the absolute highest the water could have been during the flood.

15 cubits x 20.6 inches gives us...

309 inches divided by 12 inches in a foot gives us... drum roll please!

25 feet 9 inches!

Last time I check 25.75 was not enough to cover any mountains (hence "hills" in Hebrew) that I am aware of. This is the biblical depth. Stop the global nonsense. What I find interesting is not the flood, but the rain.

Biologically how many species can survive a 40 day deluge of rain if they have never seen rain before? The flood was just the kicker to wipe out what was left. The forest for the trees...

As an aside if the Ark was 30 cubits tall and properly proportioned how much did the ARK draft?

http://www.creationconcepts.org/resources/ARK.pdf

It appears 22 feet 6 inches... this means that the Ark was only 2-3 feet off the land at any given time. According to the Bible.

Warm regards, GBTG
 
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Dale

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Only those with no verifiable evidence.


What would you accept as evidence?

Paleontogists don't have dinosaurs on videotape but creationists don't have a worldwide Flood on videotape either. On the other hand, we do have skeletons of dinosaurs, and other fossils.
 
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Dale

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The Grand Canyon was formed by catastrophic forces. At the Orrville Dam in California we saw what water could do at 100,000 cubit feet per second. This is the amount of force it took to create the grand canyon. Gradualism could not have created the Grand Canyon because gradualism does not produce enough force to do that.

Joshua, you say that "gradualism does not produce enough force ..."

This isn't true at all. A mountain or a plateau of any size can be worn away one grain of sand at a time, or one a few molecules at a time. For instance, geologists have found that the Appalachians were once higher than the Himalayas are now. They were worn away by very slowly, but they were worn away.
 
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joshua 1 9

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This isn't true at all. A mountain or a plateau of any size can be worn away one grain of sand at a time,
Not without force. You can not wear it away with nothing. I use to design sprinkler systems and everything depended on the amount of pressure (PSI) IF you do not have enough pressure, at least 40 PSI, then you are not going to be able to get the job done.
 
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Dale

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Not without force. You can not wear it away with nothing. I use to design sprinkler systems and everything depended on the amount of pressure (PSI) IF you do not have enough pressure, at least 40 PSI, then you are not going to be able to get the job done.


Part of the problem is that you don't understand chemistry. When rain comes down on mountain of rock, some of the mineral dissolves. When you say it's about force, you neglect the surprising power of water to dissolve things.

One of the reasons that rock slowly disintegrates is heating and cooling. Sunlight warms it, then it cools at night. It gets warm in the summer, cold in winter. The stress produces cracks, and pieces come off.

How much force does it take to push one grain of sand from its place, where it will eventuallly be washed to sea level, or even into the ocean?
 
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joshua 1 9

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Part of the problem is that you don't understand chemistry. When rain comes down on mountain of rock, some of the mineral dissolves. When you say it's about force, you neglect the surprising power of water to dissolve things.

One of the reasons that rock slowly disintegrates is heating and cooling. Sunlight warms it, then it cools at night. It gets warm in the summer, cold in winter. The stress produces cracks, and pieces come off.

How much force does it take to push one grain of sand from its place, where it will eventuallly be washed to sea level, or even into the ocean?
If this were true then the earth would be covered with water. All the mountains would be wore down to nothing.
Jeremiah 5:22
'Do you not fear Me?' declares the LORD 'Do you not tremble in My presence? For I have placed the sand as a boundary for the sea, An eternal decree, so it cannot cross over it. Though the waves toss, yet they cannot prevail; Though they roar, yet they cannot cross over it.

Genesis1:9 Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear";and it was so. 10 God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.…
 
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omega2xx

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What would you accept as evidence?

Paleontogists don't have dinosaurs on videotape but creationists don't have a worldwide Flood on videotape either. On the other hand, we do have skeletons of dinosaurs, and other fossils.

When neither view can be proved, I take God's word for it.

To bad you don't have some fossils linking dinos to chickens.
 
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Job 33:6

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When neither view can be proved, I take God's word for it.

To bad you don't have some fossils linking dinos to chickens.

And what is your argument against feathered theropods being transitionals between birds and prior dinosaurs?
 
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Dale

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When neither view can be proved, I take God's word for it.

To bad you don't have some fossils linking dinos to chickens.


From an article, How Dinosaurs Shrank and Became Birds, in Scientific American.

"Abzhanov was studying alligators’ vertebrae, but what struck him most was the birdlike shape of their heads; alligator embryos looked quite similar to chickens. Fossilized skulls of baby dinosaurs show the same pattern—they resemble adult birds. With those two observations in mind, Abzhanov had an idea. Perhaps birds evolved from dinosaurs by arresting their pattern of development early on in life."

The same article has a photo showing the skull of a Velociraptor, and an Archaeopteryx, together with a chicken and a pigeon, for comparison.


Link:
How Dinosaurs Shrank and Became Birds
 
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omega2xx

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From an article, How Dinosaurs Shrank and Became Birds, in Scientific American.

"Abzhanov was studying alligators’ vertebrae, but what struck him most was the birdlike shape of their heads; alligator embryos looked quite similar to chickens. Fossilized skulls of baby dinosaurs show the same pattern—they resemble adult birds. With those two observations in mind, Abzhanov had an idea. Perhaps birds evolved from dinosaurs by arresting their pattern of development early on in life."

The same article has a photo showing the skull of a Velociraptor, and an Archaeopteryx, together with a chicken and a pigeon, for comparison.


Link:
How Dinosaurs Shrank and Became Birds


Without reading your link I will guarantee it has no scientific evidence to support what he says. Now is a good chance for you to prove me wrong by cutting and pasting what he offered as evidence. To try and link species b y the shape of the head is absurd and not even close to scientific. When on uses "perhaps" in their explanation, you might as well stop. That is evidence they do no have any real evidence.

His explanation is just another necessary attempt to give the faithful Darwinites hope they have not believed in vain. It is amusing to me than any educated person would accept such a fairy tale.
 
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omega2xx

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And what is your argument against feathered theropods being transitionals between birds and prior dinosaurs?

The laws of genetics.

Why don't you explain how genetics makes it possible
 
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Job 33:6

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The laws of genetics.

Why don't you explain how genetics makes it possible

Living beings mutate, mutations change DNA which subsequently changes our proteins and morphological development.
 
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