JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

BobRyan · Sep 18, 2017

Rom ch7

In verses 1-3 Paul lays out the principal of the lost being under the condemnation of the Law. Condemned to the second death.

In verses 4-6 he emphasises the believer must die to the law in order to alive as the born-again new creation where the penalty of sin was paid by Christ who takes that condemnation for him and provides the New Covenant in its place - with the Law written on the heart.

Thus it is "still a sin to take God's name in vain" even AFTER one becomes a Christian.

The Law is written on the heart for the Christian under the NEW Covenant.

Why is Paul in such earnest about this?

In the next five verses he gives a personal example from his own life as to why once he had accepted the death of Christ as demanded by the Law - he in his new-creation new-nature found that while choosing to SERVE the LAW of God with his mind - his newly converted born-again mind... he was still being oppressed by the sinful nature "SIN IN ME" as he calls it.

in verses 12&13 he affirms the law is holy righteous and good. And he affirms it was not that which was good that brought death to him. But rather sin, which took occasion of the commandment to become exceeding sinful in Saul.

Indeed - "Sin" and in this case specifically "the sinful nature" of Romans 3:9-18, that is fully condemned by the LAW as we were told in Rom 3:19-20

In verses 14-24 Paul elaborates on his failure to obey the commandment: Thou shalt not covet. His struggles and failures to obey it. Could just as easily be said about "do not take God's name in vain".

Those who emphasize that obeying the Command to not take God's name in vain -- is to try and attain heaven by works -- have not read Romans 6-8 carefully.

stuart lawrence · Sep 18, 2017

BobRyan said:
Rom ch7

In verses 1-3 Paul lays out the principal of the lost being under the condemnation of the Law. Condemned to the second death.

In verses 4-6 he emphasises the believer must die to the law in order to alive as the born-again new creation where the penalty of sin was paid by Christ who takes that condemnation for him and provides the New Covenant in its place - with the Law written on the heart.

Thus it is "still a sin to take God's name in vain" even AFTER one becomes a Christian.

The Law is written on the heart for the Christian under the NEW Covenant.

Why is Paul in such earnest about this?

In the next five verses he gives a personal example from his own life as to why once he had accepted the death of Christ as demanded by the Law - he in his new-creation new-nature found that while choosing to SERVE the LAW of God with his mind - his newly converted born-again mind... he was still being oppressed by the sinful nature "SIN IN ME" as he calls it.

in verses 12&13 he affirms the law is holy righteous and good. And he affirms it was not that which was good that brought death to him. But rather sin, which took occasion of the commandment to become exceeding sinful in Saul.

Indeed - "Sin" and in this case specifically "the sinful nature" of Romans 3:9-18, that is fully condemned by the LAW as we were told in Rom 3:19-20

In verses 14-24 Paul elaborates on his failure to obey the commandment: Thou shalt not covet. His struggles and failures to obey it. Could just as easily be said about "do not take God's name in vain".

Those who emphasize that obeying the Command to not take God's name in vain -- is to try and attain heaven by works -- have not read Romans 6-8 carefully.

Well I will take it as a compliment, much of what you wrote was copied from a post if mine.
However, you just proved you do not understand the chapter.

BobRyan · Sep 19, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Well I will take it as a compliment, much of what you wrote was copied from a post if mine. .

Thanks - because if you can accept it... then our differences would become nill

stuart lawrence · Sep 19, 2017

BobRyan said:
Thanks - because if you can accept it... then our differences would become nill

I responded to you in the other thread concerning this

BobRyan · Sep 19, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
I responded to you in the other thread concerning this

Come to think of it -- I do believe I too responded to you on some other thread.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 22, 2017

Happy Happy Sabbath to you all my friends (my time now).

Just dropping by to wish you all much love, joy and peace in the holy Ghost. Who are we without his love? God is love and they that dwell in God dwell in love because he fist loved us. Who am I that he should love me? Then God showed his love for us in that while we were yet sinners he died for us. My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear: because fear hath torment. He that fears is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar.

By this shall all men know that ye are his disciples, if we have love one to another. Jesus says; He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another hath fulfilled the law. For this, we will not commit adultery, we will not kill, we will not steal, we will not bear false witness, or covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Love your neighbor as thyself. Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not Love, I am nothing and though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profits me nothing. Love suffers long, and is kind; love envies not; love vaunts not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeks not its own, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil;

Rejoices not in sin, but rejoices in the truth; Bares all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. Now abides faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Those that perish will not enter the Kingdom because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Happy Sabbath all.

Now to him who loves us to him be all the power and glory forever and ever Amen.....

LoveGodsWord · Sep 23, 2017

Love is the fulfilling of God's Law and the only way it can be obeyed and it is the reason why Jesus says; I know you that you do not have the love of God in you. Truly, truly, I say unto you except a man be born again he cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven...

The Jewish Lawyers knew that love was connected to the 10 commandments (Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18)...

Luke 11:25-28
25, And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26, He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27, And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself. 28, And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Jesus connects the two great commandments to the Law and the prophets...

Matthew 22:36-40
36, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37, Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38, This is the first and great commandment. 39, And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40, On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Paul connects love to the great commandments in God's Law....

Romans 13:8-10
8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loves another hath fulfilled the law.
9, For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 10, Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Matthew 19:16-19
16, And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17, And he said unto him, Why call thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18, He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19, Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

James connects love to obeying God's Law.....

James 2:8-12
8, If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well: 9, But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11, For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.12, So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Love and obedience to God's Law is a sign that someone is born again and knows God......

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

If we sin and say we know God we are not born again and do not know God....

1 John 3:6-10
Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. 7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

1 John 2:2-4
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that saith, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

This includes God's 4th commandment the 7th Day Sabbath which is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now calls all men everywhere to repent. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Faith without works is dead.

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornication's, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man. Truly, truly I say unto you unless a man is born again he can in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven....

PeaceJoyLove · Sep 24, 2017

staff edit

By keeping the First Great Commandment (as Jesus spoke), the Second Great Commandment is kept without thought or effort.

BobRyan · Sep 28, 2017

PeaceJoyLove said:
By keeping the First Great Commandment (as Jesus spoke), the Second Great Commandment is kept without thought or effort.

God Commands both - with thought and effort -

Deut 6:4
Lev 19:18

And Christ repeats it in Matthew 22

And the Jews before the Cross - agreed with Christ in affirming those two commandments in the Mosaic Law.

PeaceJoyLove · Sep 28, 2017

BobRyan said:
God Commands both - with thought and effort -

Deut 6:4
Lev 19:18

And Christ repeats it in Matthew 22

And the Jews before the Cross - agreed with Christ in affirming those two commandments in the Mosaic Law.

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Thought and effort are man's work...but as mentioned before, the law is very necessary to the process taking place within and what that means (where it proceeds from) changes throughout the process taking place within.

BobRyan · Sep 28, 2017

PeaceJoyLove said:
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Amen!

And in the OT they all drank from the "same spiritual Rock and that Rock was CHRIST" 1 Cor 10:4.

So while the "many" of Matthew 7 may indeed be lost - there is also the FEW of Matt 7 that are not.

Moses and Elijah - stand WITH Christ in Matthew 17 -- in glory... before the cross ever happened.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 30, 2017

Bob S said:
LoveGodsWord said: Bob, may I ask you what you think the Torah is? Bob S. replied: Torah is 613 laws given to Israel and Israel only. God has never asked any other nation to observe Torah yet you do. Do you know something that God doesn't? Is Ellen White and the SDA church more knowledgeable than God?

The Torah is actually much more then you are making out. The Torah is the first 5 books of the bible written by Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy and Numbers). Are you saying that as a Christian we no longer need to consider these books?

Bob S said:
LoveGodsWord said: Also in your answer above are you saying that Luke 10:25-28; Matthew 22:36-40; Matthew 19:16-19 are not for New Covenant Christian? Bob S replied: Exactly for Christians. Jesus didn't ask or tell him to keep a day. Those commands that Jesus quoted from Torah were not from the 10. The are from the book of the law that Moses wrote for God. The ones you have proclaimed are nailed to the Cross. Feature that my friend.

If you read the OP in COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH! you would know that it was not God’s Law (10 commandments) that were nailed to the cross.

LoveGodsWord · Sep 30, 2017

Bob S said:
LoveGodsWord said: So which truth in your mind do you feel I have avoided? To my understanding I have only answered all of your questions with scripture. I have always answered your questions with scripture and His Word has answered all. I am getting my answers from the source of all questions. What he whispers in my ears I must preach on the housetop. His light cannot be hid but sometimes men love darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. Bob S Replied: You would like the reader to believe you have, but lets take one blatant scenario where I took 2Cor3:7-11 and broke it down into segments. I asked you why Paul wrote those verses in past tense- no answer. I asked you why Paul wrote that the 10 commandments were transitory. Not only once, but twice he wrote that they were temporary. Those were specific questions and as of yet I have not received a valid response. You did refer me to a previous post which only beat around the bush. I even asked you to humor me by answering again, still no answer. You write long posts, so I know it does not cramp you to answer a few direct questions with a few direct answers. I even told you I would critique you OP on Col 2 if you would recognize that Paul wrote that the 10 commandments were temporary. Give me an answer as to why Paul would write such a thing if it were not true.

Bob, this was already answered earlier. I am happy to share God’s Word with you though so do not mind you asking again. If I do now, I hope you can read the OP for COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH!. I believe there is a blessing in there for you if you study with a open heart asking Jesus to be your teacher like the faithful Bereans. Let's have a look at 2 Corinthians Chapter 3 again.

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 is referring to the Old and New Covenants. The context for reference is 2 Corinthians 3:3 talking about the “Believer” (in God’s Word) “Forasmuch as you are manifestly declared to be the epistle (Who? The “Believer” is a living message of Christ) of Christ ministered by us, not written with ink (who? The believer) but with the Spirit of the living God. Not in tables of stone but the fleshly tables of the heart (see Hebrews 8:10-12 New Covenant promise).

Let’s look at the rest of the chapter?

v6, Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament (Covenant); not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit giveth life.
v7, But if the ministration of death, written and graven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away.
v8, How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
v9, For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
v10, For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
v11, For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
v12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
v13, And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
v14, But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
v15, But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16, Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17, Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

What is the ministration of death graven in stone? It is God’s Law (10 commandments; Exodus 20:1-17; 31:18; 32:16). Why were they called the ministration of death? Because they give the knowledge of sin and righteousness (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; 7:7). They made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19) but showed what sin was if the God’s Law was broken the penalty for sin is death (Romans 6:23). It was to teach us that we are all sinners in need of a saviour and that all the world may become guilty before God (Romans 3:10; 19; Isaiah 64:6). It leads us to Christ that we might be justified by faith (Galatians 3:24; Romans 3:28). The glory of the one passes to the glory of the other. They both work together to bring the sinner to salvation. This is the difference between the true Gospel and the counterfeit. The counterfeit Gospel is one that tries to separate God’s Law from the cross but without God’s Law no one has the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness.

Why is God's Law important to helping someone to have faith in Christ alone?

Because it is only through the Law of God (10 commandments) that any of us have a knowledge of what sin is (James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Rom 3:20; 7:7). If we do away with God's Law we have no knowledge of sin. If we have no knowledge of sin we have no need of a savior. If we have no need of a savior we have no salvation. If we have no salvation we are lost. "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." (Rom 2:12).

God's Law shows us that we are sinners in need of a savior. God's Law was given to us that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God (Rom 3:19). It shows us that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves from this disease that we have within us so that we can by Faith lay hold of the promises of God's Words so that Jesus can save us from our sins. Jesus did not come to save the righteous (those that think they do not need saving) but sinners (those that know their need of saving) (Matt 9:12-13; Mark 2:17; Luke 5:32) God's Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ. It will be the basis of the judgement where we will all be accountable to God.

The Law of God is the only way of showing us who we truly are, sinners in need of a Saviour and in this condition we can see for the first time Him who loved us and washed us in His own blood and by faith only lay hold of the promises of God’s Word. (2Pet 1:4) It is here as we believe God that he changes us from living a life of breaking God's Law to a life of walking with him. It is through the operation of God through Love because he first loved us that we follow Jesus not for salvation but because of love. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law in us who walk not after the flesh (carnal sinful mind) but after the spirit and why Jesus says to his followers, "If you love me keep the commandments" (John 14:15).

People cannot see that this is the operation of God in the believer and assume God's people believe they are saved by their works, when in fact Jesus is saving us from our sins to walk in newness of life in fulfilment of His new Covenant promise (Heb 8:10-12)...... Gods Sheep hear His Voice salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's Law (1John 3:4) whosoever is living in sin has neither seen him nor known him (1John 3:6)

You say that the 10 commandments are transitory or temporary. This is correct in that they lead us to Jesus. However does this mean they are abolished? Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law (Romans 3:31). Salvation is being saved from sin not in sin. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4). Those that are still in their sins have neither seen him or know him (1 John 2:3-4, 1 John 3:3-10; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12).

The 7th Day Sabbath is one of God’s 10 if we knowingly break it we are guilty of sin (James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4). Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching over the Word of God. If we love Jesus we should follow him who loves us (John 14:15).

Hope this helps.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 1, 2017

Only God's Word is true we should let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That you might be justified in thy sayings, and might overcome when thou art judged. (Romans 3:4)

Bob S said:
How could keeping the Sabbath be a command that we will be judged by?

God commanded it so we should keep it is one of the 10 commandments written in God's Word (Exodus 10:1-17)

Bob S said:
The law, Torah was not about salvation yet you try to make it salvational. You are wrong LGW. All the rules given to Israel at Sinai were for how they were to live in Canaan. Torah was the law of the land.

You may need to look at your definition of what you think the Torah is. From the website you quoted earlier "Torah" also called "Pentateuch from the Greek" is the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). These are also called the book of Moses as they were written by Moses. (Judaism 101; Torah).

Of course the Old and the New Covenants were about salvation. The Old was pointing to Jesus through the ceremonial laws of Moses that were shadows of forgiveness (Levitical, ceremonial, Sanctuary, animal sacrifices and offerings).

The New Covenant brings in Jesus which those old things were pointing to and fade away. Both old and new are indeed about salvation which is by faith. The 10 commandments are the standard in both the Old and the New because they point out sin and they are the standard in the judgement to come (scriptures for all statements previously provided. Let me know if you would like them posted again?

Bob S said:
Why won't you address what God told Moses before He gave them the law Ex19:5-6

This has already been addressed maybe you did not see it posted earlier? Let's look at the scriptures as I need some clarification from you...

Exodus 19:5-6
5, Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6, And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

So yep pretty clear;
If we obey God's voice and keep his covenant then we will be a peculiar treasure to God above all
We will be a kingdom of priests and a Holy nation

Now for clarification are you saying that in the Old Covenant, God's people were saved by the works of the Law because if you are not I do not understand your point or why you use this scripture as it does not support what you are saying. I will tell you why after I hear back from you. A yes or no is ok if you haven't time.

LoveGodsWord · Oct 1, 2017

Bob S said:
Bob s replied: I hope this time you will see that the 10 commandments are past and that they have been replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If not then once again you have not looked at those words with an open mind........................ etc etc etc

Gods Law (10 commandments) is very much a part of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. You cannot separate the 10 commandments from God's grace because they lead us to Jesus. Your post here has already been addressed in post # 423 with a multitude of supporting scriptures which you have chosen to not believe or ignore so no point in going round in circles. Let's agree to disagree. I will leave it between you and God. I do not judge you. God's Word will judge us in the last days (John 12:47-48)

Bob S said:
LoveGods Word said: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law (Romans 3:31). Bob S replied: Does that verse in any way tell us we are under the law? And by the way Paul was not referring to just the 10 commandments he was referring to Torah. So, if you believe we are still under the law then you better bone up on the 613.

To be under the Law in scripture can have a number of different meanings depending on the context.
So what does it actually mean to be “Under the Law” and what does God’s Word say?

Rom 2:12-13
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Rom 2:12-13)

Rom 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15
What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

To be “Under the Law” in the scriptures above means to be convicted of sin, to be guilty before God as a sinner. The sinner is under the Law because he has broken the Law and is guilty of breaking the God’s Law. This applies to both Jews and Gentiles believers because without God's Law is no knowledge of Sin
If we sin we are under the Law is transgressors of God's Law and guilty before God and in danger of the judgement unless we repent and turn back to God and seek forgiveness.

This includes the 4th commandment which is one of the 10 (James 2:8-12)

Hope this help

God Bless

FreeinChrist · Oct 3, 2017

MOD HAT

This thread had a clean up. As a reminder the site rules include:

Flaming and Goading

- Please treat all members with respect and courtesy through civil dialogue.
- Do not personally attack (insult, belittle, mock, ridicule) other members or groups of members on CF. Address only the content of the post and not the poster.
- NO Goading. This includes images, cartoons, smileys or post ratings which are clearly meant to goad. Quoting and then editing another members post to change the original meaning, commonly referred to as "fixed it for you" (FIFY), is considered goading.
- Offensive derogatory nicknames and egregious inflammatory comments about public figures may be considered goading.
- Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed.
If you are flamed, do not respond in-kind. Alert staff to the situation by utilizing the report button.

The statement of purpose for this forum includes:

Although the Law of God is pleasing to a believer it is not a necessary requirement for salvation. (Psalms 119:174; Galatians 3:10, Galatians 5:18)

LoveGodsWord · Oct 3, 2017

Many thanks FreeinChrist

Bob S · Oct 4, 2017

Abraham was saved by faith in God. Was Abraham perfect and did Abraham have what LGW keeps stating the "10 commandments"? My Bible tells me that he did not have the 10 commandments and that is found in Deut 5:1 Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors.

LGW, you keep saying that we are saved by grace and I totally agree and then you add a "but". Your but is that if we do not observe the Israelite Sabbath we will be lost. Please do not deny it because I can go back to many of your posts and show you the scripture you use to hammer that concept.

In all your posts you have not answered the fact that Paul wrote that the 10 commandments were, past tense, temporary. You use scripture like 1Jn 3: 4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness to try to say that the 10 are the irrefutable standard that defines sin. Verse 4 does not tell us that. It says nothing about the 10. You have interpreted that verse to try to make it sound like you wished it to be. If Abraham was saved without the law of Moses why is it Christians cannot be saved by the law that Jesus gave us? Jn15:10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. Why is it that you cannot use Jesus commands as being what 1John was referring? 1John even goes on further in the chapter to explain the commands we are to keep and tells us if we keep those commands we belong to the truth.

Who should I believe LGW? Your interpretation puts me under the law of Moses. Yes, if we use your scenario then the Messianics are correct and you are picking and choosing what laws from the laws given only to Israel. You know, I think I have a 100% better chance believing the words of Paul, John and 1John than what you have presented on the forum.

One of us is sincerely mistaken. I was once influenced by the writings of Ellen White. The Holy Spirit led me away from her to Sola Scriptura.

I wish you every blessing and hope to see you in paradise.

Ron Gurley · Oct 4, 2017

Matthew 12...Jesus answers Sabbath Questions
1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat.
2 But when the (legalistic) Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath.”
3 But He said to them,
“Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,
4 how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?
5 Or have you not read in the (Mosaic) Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple
break the Sabbath and are innocent?
6 But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.
7 But if you had known what this means,
‘I desire compassion, and not a sacrifice,’
you would not have condemned the innocent.

Lord of the Sabbath

8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

During His ministry, Jesus the God-Man confirmed and clarified all of the "BIG 10" of the Mosaic Law EXCEPT ONE:
Exodus 20:8...“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

After completion of Jesus' missions, The Mosaic Law was fulfilled.

Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to FULFILL.

Mark 1:15..(Jesus) and saying,
“The time (prophecy) is FULFILLED,
and the "kingdom of God" (Jesus) is "at hand";(NOW!)
repent (turn toward God) AND believe in the "gospel".”
("gospel"= GOOD NEWS: The Divine Messiah has come down from heaven to save Mankind)

Luke 4:21..And He began to say to them (IN TEMPLE), “Today this Scripture has been FULFILLED in your hearing.”
17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,
18-19
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives,And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set free those who are oppressed,
To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord.”

Luke 24:44...Post-resurrection Jesus to His closest followers...Now He said to them,
“These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be FULFILLED.”

Ron Gurley · Oct 4, 2017

Jesus rose on a Sunday. Most Christ-followers honor the resurrected Jesus on the NEW first day of the week.
Jesus and his chosen 11 apostles (messengers) were all devout Jews and attended temple on a Saturday. But Jesus CHANGED THE WORLD! Sacred traditions of worship on Sunday quickly developed in the early "CHURCH".

JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

CF Advisory team

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

What U See is What U Get!

What U See is What U Get!

Similar threads