Eternal Security

Quasar92 · Jun 16, 2017

Once a person has heard the Gospel and believed, what is written in Jn.3:16; Rom.8:29-30 and 10:9-10, it is clear our salvation is guaranteed, according to Eph.1:13-14. A look at these facts appear as follows:

"For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." Rom.*;29-30.

When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 24 declares, "To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy." God's power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.

The Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand," according to John 10:27-29. Both Jesus and the Father have us firmly grasped in their hand. Who could possibly separate us from the grip of both the Father and the Son?

Ephesians 4:30 tells us that believers are "sealed for the day of redemption." If believers did not have eternal security, the sealing could not truly be unto the day of redemption, but only to the day of sinning, apostasy, or disbelief. John 3:15-16 tells us that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never "eternal" to begin with. If eternal security is not true, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.

The most powerful argument for eternal security is Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is based on God's love for those whom He has redeemed. Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Recommended Resource: Eternal Security by Charles Stanley

,

Quasar92

com7fy8 · Jun 16, 2017

But it seems that there are eternal security people who trust that even if they do not change from being sinful and sloppy, still they are guaranteed "Heaven".

So, I now understand that Biblical eternal security includes that once Jesus has received us, now He succeeds in changing us to become perfected in God's love, in this life > 1 John 4:17.

And Isaiah 55:11 says God's word "shall accomplish what I please". This means that part of having unconditional salvation is how God's word is unconditionally guaranteed to succeed to do in us and our lives all which His word says . . . all which God's word means to God Himself.

And this includes how our Heavenly Father succeeds in correcting His children > Hebrews 12:4-11 < so, therefore, there is no such thing as being truly saved but then we never get corrected and matured to be like Jesus and be pleasing to our Father like Jesus in us makes us so pleasing. And Jesus growing in us (Galatians 4:19) has us also discovering how He loves any and all people > we come to know Him by becoming pleasing and all-loving like Jesus our Groom is > Ephesians 5:2 commands this < and this makes us compatible with Him so we are ready to spend all eternity with our Groom Jesus and one another.

The scriptures are for feeding us to become and live and love like Christ . . . in this life >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

"in this world," our Apostle John says, here . . . not procrastinating until after we die.

And our Apostle Paul says,

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," (in Philippians 2:14-16)

So . . . right "in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," God expects us to "become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault". His love with His almighty power of His grace changes us so we succeed in all He means by this which is His word guaranteed to succeed.

This is not, then, about what we can get our own selves to will and do, but this is about how God is able >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

Hebrews 12:4-11 is very plain about how our salvation and God's love for us includes how our Heavenly Father succeeds in correcting whoever are His children. And this scripture says we need to actively seek our Father for this correction. Plus, this scripture guarantees us what will become of us because of our Father's correction > Hebrews 12:4-11 >

The almighty power of His grace changes us so we "be partakers of His holiness", and His correction produces "the peaceable fruit of righteousness" in us. But our own efforts and willing are what have failed; and our excuse making certainly has not gotten us all which our God and Father is committed to sharing with us. But our Father is committed to succeed in us; so, LORD our Father, please do continue to win in us

and so prove Yourself in us

Thank you

TheSeabass · Jun 16, 2017

Nowhere does the bible teach that God has respect of persons where He unconditionally elects certain individuals to be saved leaving the rest hopelessly lost. The bible does teach that God foreknew a group that would be called 'Christian' that wold be saved. And it is the individual's responsibility and accountability to be in this group. With this in mind:

Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

This verse is speaking about that group.."them that love God", i.e., those that obey God (John 14:15), the ones that have answered the call, "the called" (Jude 1:1).

Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

"For" is an explanatory preposition telling us why all things work for the good for this group that obeys God.

"whom He foreknew" refers to the group and not individuals for again, God never had respect of persons where He UNconditionally elected some to salvation leaving the rest lost. There is no such thing as an inidividual who has been conformed to the image of Christ but was outside, apart from the group.

Romans 8:29 "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified"

This verse shows the whole plan of salvation - from the group being predestinated to being glorified.

I have seen some argue that since the verbs in v29 are aorist past tense this proves eternal security.
Yet in 1 Corinthians 6:11 the verbs 'washed' 'sanctified' and 'justified' are past tense yet in 1 Corinthians 10:12 the Christians in Corinth are still warned about falling.

Also, in Romans 8:17 says "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

The phrase "if so be" shows that being glorified/saved is conditional. If one is to be glorified, then he must suffer with Christ and faithfully remain in the group. For it is the GROUP that will be glorified and not the individual unconditionally being glorified apart from the group. If one does not remain faithful and falls from the group (1 Cor 10:12) then the group will still be justified, glorified but not the individual that is no longer in the group.

Romans 8:38,39 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

This passage speaks of things external to the Christian, for the CHristian can become unfaithful and fall away becoming lost. If it were impossible for the Christian to be separated from the love of God, then what reason was there for Jude to command the Christian to "Keep yourselves in the love of God.."? Jude 1:21 Jude's command is implying that the Christian can be separated from the love of God and become lost.

So the word 'foreknew' in Rom 8:29 has nothing to do with individuals salvation or condemnation but is a reference to the group, that God foreknew this group would be in the image of Christ (Christ likeness), this group is made up of those that answered the call, this group would be justified, glorified and in Eph 1:4,5 God foreknew this group would be in Christ, holy and without blame and be called sons.

Ironside points out (my emp):

Turn to your Bible and read for yourself in the only two chapters in which this word predestinate or predestinated is found. The first is Romans 8:29-30, the other chapter is Ephesians 1:5 and 11. You will note that there is no reference in these four verses to either heaven or hell but to Christ-likeness eventually. Nowhere are we told in scripture that God predestinated one man to be saved and another to be lost. Men are to be saved or lost eternally because of their attitude towards the Lord Jesus Christ.

H.A. Ironside, Full Assurance (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1937), 93-94

Si_monfaith · Sep 6, 2017

com7fy8 said:
But it seems that there are eternal security people who trust that even if they do not change from being sinful and sloppy, still they are guaranteed "Heaven".

So, I now understand that Biblical eternal security includes that once Jesus has received us, now He succeeds in changing us to become perfected in God's love, in this life > 1 John 4:17.

And Isaiah 55:11 says God's word "shall accomplish what I please". This means that part of having unconditional salvation is how God's word is unconditionally guaranteed to succeed to do in us and our lives all which His word says . . . all which God's word means to God Himself.

And this includes how our Heavenly Father succeeds in correcting His children > Hebrews 12:4-11 < so, therefore, there is no such thing as being truly saved but then we never get corrected and matured to be like Jesus and be pleasing to our Father like Jesus in us makes us so pleasing. And Jesus growing in us (Galatians 4:19) has us also discovering how He loves any and all people > we come to know Him by becoming pleasing and all-loving like Jesus our Groom is > Ephesians 5:2 commands this < and this makes us compatible with Him so we are ready to spend all eternity with our Groom Jesus and one another.

The scriptures are for feeding us to become and live and love like Christ . . . in this life >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

"in this world," our Apostle John says, here . . . not procrastinating until after we die.

And our Apostle Paul says,

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," (in Philippians 2:14-16)

So . . . right "in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation," God expects us to "become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault". His love with His almighty power of His grace changes us so we succeed in all He means by this which is His word guaranteed to succeed.

This is not, then, about what we can get our own selves to will and do, but this is about how God is able >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

Hebrews 12:4-11 is very plain about how our salvation and God's love for us includes how our Heavenly Father succeeds in correcting whoever are His children. And this scripture says we need to actively seek our Father for this correction. Plus, this scripture guarantees us what will become of us because of our Father's correction > Hebrews 12:4-11 >

The almighty power of His grace changes us so we "be partakers of His holiness", and His correction produces "the peaceable fruit of righteousness" in us. But our own efforts and willing are what have failed; and our excuse making certainly has not gotten us all which our God and Father is committed to sharing with us. But our Father is committed to succeed in us; so, LORD our Father, please do continue to win in us and so prove Yourself in us Thank you

Romans 5:13: For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Salvation is secure not because of our good works but because of His gracious will by which sins are not imputed through Jesus who redeemed us from the law.

Galatians 4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Si_monfaith · Sep 6, 2017

TheSeabass said:
Nowhere does the bible teach that God has respect of persons where He unconditionally elects certain individuals to be saved leaving the rest hopelessly lost. The bible does teach that God foreknew a group that would be called 'Christian' that wold be saved. And it is the individual's responsibility and accountability to be in this group. With this in mind:

Romans 8:28 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

This verse is speaking about that group.."them that love God", i.e., those that obey God (John 14:15), the ones that have answered the call, "the called" (Jude 1:1).

Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

"For" is an explanatory preposition telling us why all things work for the good for this group that obeys God.

"whom He foreknew" refers to the group and not individuals for again, God never had respect of persons where He UNconditionally elected some to salvation leaving the rest lost. There is no such thing as an inidividual who has been conformed to the image of Christ but was outside, apart from the group.

Romans 8:29 "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified"

This verse shows the whole plan of salvation - from the group being predestinated to being glorified.

I have seen some argue that since the verbs in v29 are aorist past tense this proves eternal security.
Yet in 1 Corinthians 6:11 the verbs 'washed' 'sanctified' and 'justified' are past tense yet in 1 Corinthians 10:12 the Christians in Corinth are still warned about falling.

Also, in Romans 8:17 says "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

The phrase "if so be" shows that being glorified/saved is conditional. If one is to be glorified, then he must suffer with Christ and faithfully remain in the group. For it is the GROUP that will be glorified and not the individual unconditionally being glorified apart from the group. If one does not remain faithful and falls from the group (1 Cor 10:12) then the group will still be justified, glorified but not the individual that is no longer in the group.

Romans 8:38,39 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

This passage speaks of things external to the Christian, for the CHristian can become unfaithful and fall away becoming lost. If it were impossible for the Christian to be separated from the love of God, then what reason was there for Jude to command the Christian to "Keep yourselves in the love of God.."? Jude 1:21 Jude's command is implying that the Christian can be separated from the love of God and become lost.

So the word 'foreknew' in Rom 8:29 has nothing to do with individuals salvation or condemnation but is a reference to the group, that God foreknew this group would be in the image of Christ (Christ likeness), this group is made up of those that answered the call, this group would be justified, glorified and in Eph 1:4,5 God foreknew this group would be in Christ, holy and without blame and be called sons.

Ironside points out (my emp):

Turn to your Bible and read for yourself in the only two chapters in which this word predestinate or predestinated is found. The first is Romans 8:29-30, the other chapter is Ephesians 1:5 and 11. You will note that there is no reference in these four verses to either heaven or hell but to Christ-likeness eventually. Nowhere are we told in scripture that God predestinated one man to be saved and another to be lost. Men are to be saved or lost eternally because of their attitude towards the Lord Jesus Christ.

H.A. Ironside, Full Assurance (Chicago, IL: Moody Press, 1937), 93-94

Without the knowledge of God's will which saves man, man is ruled by sin and ends up in hell. Man neither chooses to gain eternal life.

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Si_monfaith said:
Without the knowledge of God's will which saves man, man is ruled by sin and ends up in hell. Man neither chooses to gain eternal life.

Joshua 24:15 "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

Proverbs 1:29 "For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:"

Hammster · Sep 6, 2017

23 And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes.
24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. - Ezekiel 36:23-28

This is what God promises. He states these promises without condition.

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Hammster said:
23 And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them. And the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when through you I vindicate my holiness before their eyes.
24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. - Ezekiel 36:23-28

This is what God promises. He states these promises without condition.

Joshua 23:11-16 the land promise was CONDITIONAL.

Hammster · Sep 6, 2017

TheSeabass said:
Joshua 23:11-16 the land promise was CONDITIONAL.

Non sequitur.

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Hammster said:
Non sequitur.

You posted verses that speak to the land promise and I posted verses that show that land promise was in fact conditional.

Yet when it comes to salvation, God NEVER EVER promised UNconditional salvation.

Hammster · Sep 6, 2017

TheSeabass said:
You posted verses that speak to the land promise and I posted verses that show that land promise was in fact conditional.

Yet when it comes to salvation, God NEVER EVER promised UNconditional salvation.

No, there was a promise that included land. There was much more than that.

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Hammster said:
No, there was a promise that included land. There was much more than that.

The promised land was conditional, again see Joshua 23. The Jews were given the promise land based upon the conditions given and lost that land for not keeping the conditions.

Premills have it all wrong.

Hammster · Sep 6, 2017

TheSeabass said:
The promised land was conditional, again see Joshua 23. The Jews were given the promise land based upon the conditions given and lost that land for not keeping the conditions.

Premills have it all wrong.

At that time it was correct. But it doesn't negate what was promised in Ezekiel 36. You need to pit God against Himself to uphold your position.

TheSeabass · Sep 6, 2017

Hammster said:
At that time it was correct. But it doesn't negate what was promised in Ezekiel 36. You need to pit God against Himself to uphold your position.

Nothing in EZE 36 contradicts Joshua 23. Fleshly Israel possessed the land, lost it due to unfaithfulness to God.

Again, as God's land promise was conditional so is the promise of salvation.

Hammster · Sep 6, 2017

TheSeabass said:
Nothing in EZE 36 contradicts Joshua 23. Fleshly Israel possessed the land, lost it due to unfaithfulness to God.

Again, as God's land promise was conditional so is the promise of salvation.

There's nothing in Ezekiel 36 that's conditional.

danyl1967 · Apr 24, 2018

Quasar92 said:
Once a person has heard the Gospel and believed, what is written in Jn.3:16; Rom.8:29-30 and 10:9-10, it is clear our salvation is guaranteed, according to Eph.1:13-14. A look at these facts appear as follows:

"For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." Rom.*;29-30.

When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 24 declares, "To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy." God's power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.

The Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand," according to John 10:27-29. Both Jesus and the Father have us firmly grasped in their hand. Who could possibly separate us from the grip of both the Father and the Son?

Ephesians 4:30 tells us that believers are "sealed for the day of redemption." If believers did not have eternal security, the sealing could not truly be unto the day of redemption, but only to the day of sinning, apostasy, or disbelief. John 3:15-16 tells us that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never "eternal" to begin with. If eternal security is not true, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.

The most powerful argument for eternal security is Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is based on God's love for those whom He has redeemed. Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Recommended Resource: Eternal Security by Charles Stanley

,

Quasar92

Its amazing how insecure salvationist dig into the law or old covenant which was done away with to promote their false teachings. Further it is amazing how people totally disregard that God said it is by blood that sins are forgiven. Through out the Bible, God has made it clear that sin is the issue, not works that saves a person. God has also made it clear that the Blood of Jesus washes all sin away.

I have talked with insecure salvationist and my experience they refuse to believe that if some one who willingly commits murder, or incest, or lives their life after the flesh, that there is no way those types could be saved. Yet, in my previous sentence, I am referring to King David, Lot and Sampson. All who God said are saved.

If such can be saved under an inferior covenant than how much more in a better covenant. What gives these insecurist the right to be God's spiritual police.
Even in the old testament those who was saved was those who look to God, not works to save them.

Great posting. More people need to stand up for the real Gospel. Which is all about Jesus and none of self.

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