Jesus "learned obedience through the things he suffered"...?

Neogaia777 · Aug 24, 2017

Hebrews 5:8

How did Jesus "learn obedience through the things he suffered"...? I thought he always obedient his whole life...?

"How" did he learn it...? What "things" that he suffered...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Aug 24, 2017

Hebrews 5:7 says that Jesus had "fear"....

Haipule · Aug 24, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Hebrews 5:8

How did Jesus "learn obedience through the things he suffered"...? I thought he always obedient his whole life...?

"How" did he learn it...? What "things" that he suffered...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Great question friend! The Greek states that He learned Sonship apo-separate(from) suffering. hupokoE(under-hear), translated "obedience" has a conjunction into the next verse(bad verse break).

5:8 starts with a conjunction being used as an adjective with the present participle On(being/existence--one-keeps-on-being). What's that mean? It's too late and Hebrews is really, really good Greek. What's that mean? The writer of this book is really, really smart and I a stupid surfer! I'll start fresh tomorrow!

Another Lazarus · Aug 25, 2017

He could run away from Gethsemane garden but he waited for people to arrest Him as He obeyed the will of the Father.

Rescued One · Aug 25, 2017

I enjoy research. And Barnes wrote his commentary on this so beautifully, I would like to share it.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Though he were a Son - Though the Son of God. Though he sustained this exalted rank, and was conscious of it, yet he was willing to learn experimentally what is meant by obedience in the midst of sufferings.
Yet learned he obedience - That is, he learned experimentally and practically. It cannot be supposed that he did not "know" what obedience was; or that he was "indisposed" to obey God before he suffered; or that he had, as we have, perversities of nature leading to rebellion which required to be subdued by suffering, but that he was willing to "test" the power of obedience in sufferings; to become personally and practically acquainted with the nature of such obedience in the midst of protracted woes; compare note on Philippians 2:8. The "object" here is, to show how well suited the Lord Jesus was to be a Saviour for mankind; and the argument is, that he has set us an example, and has shown that the most perfect obedience may be manifested in the deepest sorrows of the body and the soul. Hence, learn that one of the objects of affliction is to lead us "to obey God." In prosperity we forget it. We become self-confident and rebellious. "Then" God lays his hand upon us; breaks up our plans; crushes our hopes; takes away our health, and teaches us that we "must" be submissive to his will. Some of the most valuable lessons of obedience are learned in the furnace of affliction; and many of the most submissive children of the Almighty have been made so as the result of protracted woes.

I've finally learned that God's will is what matters!

Matthew 6
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

1 Thessalonians 5
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Grateful, thankful, and blessed!

Rescued One · Aug 25, 2017

I like the NKJV here:

Hebrews 5:7 (NKJV) who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
I enjoy research. And Barnes wrote his commentary on this so beautifully, I would like to share it.
Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Though he were a Son - Though the Son of God. Though he sustained this exalted rank, and was conscious of it, yet he was willing to learn experimentally what is meant by obedience in the midst of sufferings.
Yet learned he obedience - That is, he learned experimentally and practically. It cannot be supposed that he did not "know" what obedience was; or that he was "indisposed" to obey God before he suffered; or that he had, as we have, perversities of nature leading to rebellion which required to be subdued by suffering, but that he was willing to "test" the power of obedience in sufferings; to become personally and practically acquainted with the nature of such obedience in the midst of protracted woes; compare note on Philippians 2:8. The "object" here is, to show how well suited the Lord Jesus was to be a Saviour for mankind; and the argument is, that he has set us an example, and has shown that the most perfect obedience may be manifested in the deepest sorrows of the body and the soul. Hence, learn that one of the objects of affliction is to lead us "to obey God." In prosperity we forget it. We become self-confident and rebellious. "Then" God lays his hand upon us; breaks up our plans; crushes our hopes; takes away our health, and teaches us that we "must" be submissive to his will. Some of the most valuable lessons of obedience are learned in the furnace of affliction; and many of the most submissive children of the Almighty have been made so as the result of protracted woes.

I've finally learned that God's will is what matters!

Matthew 6
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

1 Thessalonians 5
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Grateful, thankful, and blessed!

Did what you speak of learning, was that something Jesus had to learn...?

timewerx · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Hebrews 5:8

How did Jesus "learn obedience through the things he suffered"...? I thought he always obedient his whole life...?

"How" did he learn it...? What "things" that he suffered...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Jesus did try to resist (disobey) God about being nailed to the cross, voiced (complained) of His distress while nailed at the cross.

Not to mention, their exile in Egypt is largely undocumented.

Rescued One · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Did what you speak of learning, was that something Jesus had to learn...?

I think He wanted us to know that He understands it from a human's perspective. It's not easy for us to go through trials, but it certainly has helped me (although at the time I wondered why God was allowing me to suffer so much). And my suffering was nothing compared to what is going on in other Christians' lives.

Shempster · Aug 25, 2017

My guess is that he was giving us a tidbit of Jesus life during the first 30 years.
What happened was not recorded....or the information was burned and deleted from history (if you like conspiracy theories

)

Haipule · Aug 25, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Hebrews 5:8

How did Jesus "learn obedience through the things he suffered"...? I thought he always obedient his whole life...?

"How" did he learn it...? What "things" that he suffered...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

(8)And-although--with the added sense of importance, strong emphasis.

One-keep-on-being

[anarthrous--character and nature]Son

He-learned* by practice, habit, accustomed

separate(from)

of-thee-which-things(may be postpositive)

He-experienced*(vox media--can be good or bad but here it is just general experience)

thee><under-hear>(to listen under authority--submission)

(9)and-also One-being-completed/perfected*

He-becomes(into being)/appears(acting upon Himself)*

to-all thee-all

ones-keep-on-under-hearing(to listen under authority--submission)

to-Him-same

[the character and nature]causative/cause/author

of-deliverance(feminine) breath-being-belonging-to-her.

(8)And-although(strong emphasis) One-keep-on-being
[anarthrous--character and nature]Son He-learned,*(by practice, habit, accustomed) separate(from) of-thee-which-things
He-experienced,* thee><under-hear>(to listen under authority--submission) (9)and-also One-being-completed/perfected* He-becomes(into being)/appears(acting upon Himself)* to-all thee-all ones-keep-on-under-hearing(to listen under authority--submission) to-Him-same [the character and nature]causative/cause/author
of-deliverance(feminine) breath-being-belonging-to-her.

You are right. The English translation is nonsensical. He learned(practice, accustom) Sonship separate from what He had experienced, listening(submitting) to the point of perfection that He would be the cause of our breathing deliverance(right here, right now) to those who listen to Him(submit).

Neogaia777 · Aug 25, 2017

Then there is Hebrews 2:10, (ran across this one last night), says that he was "made perfect through what he suffered..."

SBC · Aug 27, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Hebrews 5:8

How did Jesus "learn obedience through the things he suffered"...? I thought he always obedient his whole life...?

"How" did he learn it...? What "things" that he suffered...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

I would say that more to the point means Jesus "experienced" obedience, as a man experiences "obedience".

Mankind is subject to being obedient to authority.

Who is the Word of God, (Jesus) who IS the Power (Christ) of God, subject to?
He IS the Authority above ALL things. He is subject only to Himself.

God Bless,
SBC

faroukfarouk · Aug 27, 2017

Shempster said:
My guess is that he was giving us a tidbit of Jesus life during the first 30 years.
What happened was not recorded....or the information was burned and deleted from history (if you like conspiracy theories)

Included in the idea is going through a practical experience of suffering, though He was and is always omniscient. He is our faith Great High Priest that Hebrews speaks of, and our perfect Substitute.

jimmyjimmy · Aug 27, 2017

Neogaia777 said:
Hebrews 5:8

How did Jesus "learn obedience through the things he suffered"...? I thought he always obedient his whole life...?

"How" did he learn it...? What "things" that he suffered...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

As a man, which Jesus surely was, He did learn.

Der Alte · Aug 29, 2017

Haipule said:
(8)And-although--with the added sense of importance, strong emphasis.

Haipule said:
One-keep-on-being
[anarthrous--character and nature]Son
He-learned* by practice, habit, accustomed
separate(from)
of-thee-which-things(may be postpositive)
He-experienced*(vox media--can be good or bad but here it is just general experience)
thee><under-hear>(to listen under authority--submission)
(9)and-also One-being-completed/perfected*
He-becomes(into being)/appears(acting upon Himself)*
to-all thee-all
ones-keep-on-under-hearing(to listen under authority--submission)
to-Him-same
[the character and nature]causative/cause/author
of-deliverance(feminine) breath-being-belonging-to-her.
(8)And-although(strong emphasis) One-keep-on-being
[anarthrous--character and nature]Son He-learned,*(by practice, habit, accustomed) separate(from) of-thee-which-things
He-experienced,* thee><under-hear>(to listen under authority--submission) (9)and-also One-being-completed/perfected* He-becomes(into being)/appears(acting upon Himself)* to-all thee-all ones-keep-on-under-hearing(to listen under authority--submission) to-Him-same [the character and nature]causative/cause/author
of-deliverance(feminine) breath-being-belonging-to-her.
You are right. The English translation is nonsensical. He learned(practice, accustom) Sonship separate from what He had experienced, listening(submitting) to the point of perfection that He would be the cause of our breathing deliverance(right here, right now) to those who listen to Him(submit).

Everybody with a Strong's thinks they are a Greek expert. This is the only discipline I know where virtually anyone can pick up a text book and think they are qualified to contradict scholars who have been in the field for 30 years +/-.

bottomofsandal · Sep 5, 2017

I can't get beyond God had to "learn" something...

Neogaia777 · Sep 5, 2017

bottomofsandal said:
I can't get beyond God had to "learn" something...

Yet it is there, in scripture...?

How would you explain that...?

God Bless!

jimmyjimmy · Sep 5, 2017

bottomofsandal said:
I can't get beyond God had to "learn" something...

He was a man. . . and God.

Jesus "learned obedience through the things he suffered"...?

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