Is Satan able to do good things???

awitch said:

I personally don't believe there is a Satan so I guess I would have to answer that he can't do good things or bad things.

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That's pretty much what I believe as well.

Chris457 said:

First off, just wanted to say that I created an account just to ask this question, cause it seems google wont really help. And I wasted about 15 minutes trying to find the post button. So PLEASE help me cause due to this question I am insanely tempted right now and its stressing me out cause I don't want to love or serve the devil at all.. (Also, 13 year olds to young for this site, What?)

I have OCD, and earlier today, (and yesterday) the devil somehow wandered into my mind, and started telling me these lies that, he made good things happen. Lets say for example (this didn't really happen btw) I was at a hot dog stand. I bought I hot dog for around a buck. The devil came into my mind when I didn't want him to. Then, as the guy at the stand gave me the Hot Dog, he dropped it. Then he gave me 2 EXTRA hot dogs and a Coca-Cola for FREE. And lets say this exact same thing happened (with the devil in my mind) around, once yesterday and about FOUR times today. No catch. Nothing different. The EXACT SAME scenario. And I even thought about GOD once today, and something bad happened. So lets go back to the hot dog stand. But this time its not so different. This time, as the guy gave me the hot dog, I thought about god. And when he dropped the hot dog, it stained my expensive Jordans, AND the guy purposely threw ANOTHER HOT DOG on them JUST FOR FUN. (Again, this didnt really happen btw, its just an example lol) So, is this all a coincidence and just another lie from the devil, or can the devil actually do good things? I hope not, cause like I said, this is giving me LOTS of temptation probably due to my OCD. (and plz tell the truth and dont just tell me a lie) I want to worship and spend eternity with God. Please help me figure this out.

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First off, welcome to the Forums, I hope you enjoy it here
As to your question (assuming that the Devil is a fallen Angel and not a personification of evil and corrupt Kingdoms as some theologians have argued ), It seems he wishes to harm and destroy as much of God's Creation as possible.
Hope that helps.

Can and will are different things.

If we say the devil cannot do good then we have a problem for one of two reasons:

1) There are deterministic forces which compel the devil to do evil and he is unable to ever not do evil; at which point we make God the author of evil.

2) That the devil is intrinsically and ontologically evil; meaning that the devil is the cosmic evil to God's cosmic good, and thus we have cosmic dualism which is heretical. All which God created was created good, inherently good; evil does not stem from a cosmic principle or ontology, but from the willful turning away from the good toward the misuse, malformation, and abandonment of the good. The devil is not the cosmic principle of evil (there is no such thing); but is a rational creature who has turned his back away from the source of all good, God.

There is nothing to stop the devil from doing good; there's nothing outside the devil stopping the devil from repenting and finding redemption in God's mercy. But the question isn't one of can, but of will. Will the devil ever turn from his wickedness? And to that the Church, historically, says "We do not know"; though the consensus tends toward pessismistic--that the devil, who knows God's kindness better than any of us could since he was there with God among the angels in the beginning has fallen to such an extent that hope for his redemption may be regarded as foolish (though not impossible). This is a question which has long haunted the Church without definitive answer; but the Church (as far as I know) has never agreed that the devil cannot find redemption, but has recommended caution against too much optimism in that direction. The Church, therefore, rather than concerning itself with the fate of the devil, ought instead to concern itself with the preaching of the Gospel and hoping for and praying for the redemption of all people.

-CryptoLutheran

Taom Ben Robert said:

It seems he wishes to harm and destroy as much of God's Creation as possible.

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As I look around, it's us human beings who I see destroying God's Creation. I'm told it's because of our fallen nature. Things like greed, anger and ego are brought up as examples. Are we now being told that it's Satan's doing? I'm so confused!

dlamberth said:

As I look around, it's us human beings who I see destroying God's Creation. I'm told it's because of our fallen nature. Things like greed, anger and ego are brought up as examples. Are we now being told that it's Satan's doing? I'm so confused!

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"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father." -- Jesus, John 8:43-44

The greed, anger and ego we express on this earth originated from our allegiance to the enemy. Our fallen nature came from him.

CryptoLutheran:

How exactly can the notion of a Devil-as-God's-opponent (or the notion of evil-as-opposing-God) ever NOT lead to a form of dualism?

Omniscience and omnipotence mean that anything that happens is known and at the very least tolerated - and could be stopped if God so desired.
Even supposing that God was so fond of personal liberty as to bear the burden of evil: why not create entities that were capable of choice, yet choose the right path? It makes for a less interesting story, of course, but to suggest that it's impossible without turning these creatures into robots is like suggesting that God and Jesus are without free will.

dlamberth said:

As I look around, it's us human beings who I see destroying God's Creation. I'm told it's because of our fallen nature. Things like greed, anger and ego are brought up as examples. Are we now being told that it's Satan's doing? I'm so confused!

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Humanity and Satan are at fault for the violence and evil in God's Creation.
Can Satan do ANY good?
It's possible as he is a rational being created good by God, but at his core he's a cruel Rebel.

Jane_the_Bane said:

CryptoLutheran:

How exactly can the notion of a Devil-as-God's-opponent (or the notion of evil-as-opposing-God) ever NOT lead to a form of dualism?

Omniscience and omnipotence mean that anything that happens is known and at the very least tolerated - and could be stopped if God so desired.
Even supposing that God was so fond of personal liberty as to bear the burden of evil: why not create entities that were capable of choice, yet choose the right path? It makes for a less interesting story, of course, but to suggest that it's impossible without turning these creatures into robots is like suggesting that God and Jesus are without free will.

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Beings that have choice but always choose the right path.
Sounds like Special pleading to be honest.

Chris457 said:

First off, just wanted to say that I created an account just to ask this question, cause it seems google wont really help. And I wasted about 15 minutes trying to find the post button. So PLEASE help me cause due to this question I am insanely tempted right now and its stressing me out cause I don't want to love or serve the devil at all.. (Also, 13 year olds to young for this site, What?)

I have OCD, and earlier today, (and yesterday) the devil somehow wandered into my mind, and started telling me these lies that, he made good things happen. Lets say for example (this didn't really happen btw) I was at a hot dog stand. I bought I hot dog for around a buck. The devil came into my mind when I didn't want him to. Then, as the guy at the stand gave me the Hot Dog, he dropped it. Then he gave me 2 EXTRA hot dogs and a Coca-Cola for FREE. And lets say this exact same thing happened (with the devil in my mind) around, once yesterday and about FOUR times today. No catch. Nothing different. The EXACT SAME scenario. And I even thought about GOD once today, and something bad happened. So lets go back to the hot dog stand. But this time its not so different. This time, as the guy gave me the hot dog, I thought about god. And when he dropped the hot dog, it stained my expensive Jordans, AND the guy purposely threw ANOTHER HOT DOG on them JUST FOR FUN. (Again, this didnt really happen btw, its just an example lol) So, is this all a coincidence and just another lie from the devil, or can the devil actually do good things? I hope not, cause like I said, this is giving me LOTS of temptation probably due to my OCD. (and plz tell the truth and dont just tell me a lie) I want to worship and spend eternity with God. Please help me figure this out.

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What,s wrong with getting an extra hotdog and coke?

The guy was generous.

Robban said:

What,s wrong with getting an extra hotdog and coke?

The guy was generous.

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Or evil if you consider how unhealthy those are (not that I wouldn't eat them)

awitch said:

Or evil if you consider how unhealthy those are (not that I wouldn't eat them)

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Haha

Taom Ben Robert said:

Beings that have choice but always choose the right path.
Sounds like Special pleading to be honest.

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Is that not what Jesus does?

Jane_the_Bane said:

CryptoLutheran:

How exactly can the notion of a Devil-as-God's-opponent (or the notion of evil-as-opposing-God) ever NOT lead to a form of dualism?

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For the same reason that Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin don't lead to dualism. My position is, fundamentally, that morally speaking there's not really much difference between Satan and a particularly evil human being. The devil is an angel who acts contrary to God; history is replete with human beings who have done massively terrible things--committing gross acts of evil. But we are talking about creatures, creatures who act against God's will, not powerful gods or god-like beings who embody some kind of cosmic, ontological evil. That would be dualism.

Omniscience and omnipotence mean that anything that happens is known and at the very least tolerated - and could be stopped if God so desired.
Even supposing that God was so fond of personal liberty as to bear the burden of evil: why not create entities that were capable of choice, yet choose the right path? It makes for a less interesting story, of course, but to suggest that it's impossible without turning these creatures into robots is like suggesting that God and Jesus are without free will.

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I'm not fully sure I understand what it is you're trying to ask here.

-CryptoLutheran

juvenissun said:

So satan is a class of human.
Are murderers and robbers all in the class of satan?

Fine. If so, what is the name for the nature of human being who is one level higher than satan?

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It's probably more along the lines of satan being another term for the human ego.

ViaCrucis said:

For the same reason that Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin don't lead to dualism. My position is, fundamentally, that morally speaking there's not really much difference between Satan and a particularly evil human being. The devil is an angel who acts contrary to God; history is replete with human beings who have done massively terrible things--committing gross acts of evil. But we are talking about creatures, creatures who act against God's will, not powerful gods or god-like beings who embody some kind of cosmic, ontological evil. That would be dualism.



I'm not fully sure I understand what it is you're trying to ask here.

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Let me elaborate:

It's basically a variation of theodicy.

IF there is a God, and
IF that God is omnipotent, and
IF omniscience is also one of His traits,
then it is impossible for anything to happen without His knowledge and (at the very least) leave.

Any proclaimed "enemy of God" would be bound to work within His Will, like a chess game where every move is determined and anticipated with utter certainty.

ViaCrucis said:

.... not powerful gods or god-like beings who embody some kind of cosmic, ontological evil.

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But that's exactly how Satan is imaged by many.

RayJeena said:

It's probably more along the lines of satan being another term for the human ego.

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So, ALL human have satan (human ego).
Right?
If so, why do we need this term "satan"?

juvenissun said:

So, ALL human have satan (human ego).
Right?

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If satan is, indeed, the human ego, then yes, everyone would have it to one degree or another.

If so, why do we need this term "satan"?

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It's a Christian thing, I suppose, since Christianity sees satan as an entity rather than a part of the psyche.

RayJeena said:

If satan is, indeed, the human ego, then yes, everyone would have it to one degree or another.

It's a Christian thing, I suppose, since Christianity sees satan as an entity rather than a part of the psyche.

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One angle is,
it refers to the many forces and voices that distract us,
and tempt us to alienate our innerselves.

Satan or HaSatan, the numerical value is 364,
the number of days in a year,

but are there not 365 days in a year?

Yes, but 365th is Yom Kippur.

RayJeena said:

It's a Christian thing, I suppose, since Christianity sees satan as an entity rather than a part of the psyche.

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It is more than that.

Christianity use "satan" to cover something you have big big trouble to address (unable to, in fact). It is much much more than just the feature of human ego.