Sorry, I'm not seeing your point. I talked about break offs of the LDS church not amounting to anything and not being a rival to the SLC church.
You respond by quoting numbers, like the more people you have in your church, the more truth is found?
So I don't think I articulated my post very well, because I got a response different than what I expected.
Then perhaps I misunderstood you. Because when I read that these other groups have "not amounted to anything that would rival the Salt Lake City church", I see that as an
implicit argument from numbers -- because if it
isn't from numbers, then how are not already rivaling the LDS? They exist, they draw people to them, to the extent that they teach against what has been mainstream in the LDS for some time (as far as I've seen, by advocating things that the LDS have more recently given up on so that they may e seen as more mainstream/not stand in the way of Utah's statehood, like polygamy and blood atonement), they are a rival to the LDS. Because if it's not about numbers, then how successful they may be in gaining people to them doesn't enter into it. Then it is about purity of doctrine or practice or whatever else it is about (which is a simplified version of the argument you find with regard to EO vs. RC, or vice-versa, or OO vs. Chalcedonians, or whatever).
So what do you mean if you do not mean an argument from numbers, whereby there are so many more of you than there are of these others, they can't possibly present a serious challenge to the LDS church?
But since you brought it up. OO is a rival to RC and Orthodox. Orthodox is a rival to OO and RC. The Protestant religions are rivals to RC. The born again Christian religions are a rival to Protestant and RC. It is all a game of thrones.
As you see it. As someone who is involved in and know intimately at least one of these, I don't think that's accurate. You characterize it as a kind of power grab, whereas I would say that there is no power to be had in heading a church which has no state backing (as the OO do not have, and have not ever had outside of imperial Ethiopia and Armenia, which are long gone; modern Armenia is sandwiched between rival Muslim powers whi hate them and have already attempted to exterminate them several times in the form of the Turks and the Azerbaijanis, and Ethiopia is not in much better shape since the fall of the monarchy, being prone to conflict with the Somalis and the Eritreans, with the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church for its part being forcibly suppressed by the government). The relationship between the state and the Church in almost all these cases is mostly adversarial, though this is not through any kind of machinations of the Church -- unless you think calling for an end to violence against its people "a game of thrones", which is so incredibly inaccurate and frankly wicked that it does not deserve a response.
Last time I posted footage of what actually happens to my Church in its homeland, it was taken down by a moderator and I was warned not to post "graphic and disturbing" imagery on the website. What can I say, the truth is graphic and disturbing. So here it is in another form. Here is your "game of thrones" (note to mods: despite the warning at the beginning, there are no violent images in the clip; it's just a description of what happened):
With this out of the way, so that I hope you understand what things are actually like from
inside these churches (because what you say about us is not true), I would further ask what it would have to do with any 'competition' with the EO or the RC that we stick to our own faith. You do know that it is not 451 AD anymore, right? We do. Nobody is in competition with each other but that we should like others to come to what we believe, same as anyone. But then why would you see agreement as you have between NYC Guy, ViaCrucis, BigDaddy4, Phoebe Ann, and myself on many, many matters, despite the fact that we are not actually in communion with one another? I don't want to oversell, but could it be that, as BigDaddy4 has been trying to explain to you for some time now, that there is a basic foundation upon which Christianity itself is built about which Christians do not differ? I believe there is, because my own Church teaches that there are Christians outside of our communion that nevertheless believe in Christ and place their hope in Him, just as we do. This is not to say that our differences don't matter (though I don't bring them up here; note how in the post you've responded to I highlighted the Anglicans and the OO because you have interacted with both in this thread; it is most emphatically not a matter of "look at our doctrines!" or what have you), but I do not think that it is quite the warzone of ideologues that you claim is characteristic of Christianity. Of course people disagree in the specifics, but with the exception of individuals whose positions are so extreme as to render them pariahs among their own people, e.g., John Shelby Spong for the Anglicans, and...I don't know, I guess some of the deceived in Coptic dress who shall remain nameless for the Coptic Orthodox Church, there is very solid agreement.
Take the point from the above video to be: the faith is what matters, not any of this other stuff you bring up about who is in competition with who, as though that's how we actually behave. Everyone would say the same (that the faith is paramount), and particularly in the foundation of the faith, there is a great degree of unanimity to the point where this website -- as omni-denominational as it is -- can still have a statement of faith which is agreed to by 99% of its members who claim to be Christians. And that statement is what is affirmed in the traditional churches, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant.
So what does that tell you? It ought to tell you a lot. It ought to tell you to take a different tack with the people on this messageboard that does not seek to exploit their differences for your supposed benefit when you neither understand those people, nor the differences among them, nor what they hold as most important: their faith.
