Do you think this guy is for real?

Jesus4Ever · Jul 4, 2017

So I came across this guy on youtube who is known as finalcall07. He even has his own website.

He claims that he died in 1998 from a heart attack, went to hell and came back and what he has to say about christianity as a whole is...shocking to say the least.

It honestly does not sound like he's making it up but if this is true, then my whole life has been thrown upside down.

tstor · Jul 4, 2017

Jesus4Ever said:
So I came across this guy on youtube who is known as finalcall07. He even has his own website.

He claims that he died in 1998 from a heart attack, went to hell and came back and what he has to say about christianity as a whole is...shocking to say the least.

It honestly does not sound like he's making it up but if this is true, then my whole life has been thrown upside down.

Seems like a rambling old man. I would not pay him much mind.

JackRT · Jul 4, 2017

Jesus4Ever said:
So I came across this guy on youtube who is known as finalcall07. He even has his own website.

He claims that he died in 1998 from a heart attack, went to hell and came back and what he has to say about christianity as a whole is...shocking to say the least.

It honestly does not sound like he's making it up but if this is true, then my whole life has been thrown upside down.

The human mind is capable of astonishing deception --- especially self deception.

morse86 · Jul 4, 2017

And the sky is purple too. Are you serious? We have the whole world of God. We don't need any "dream explanations" from the world experiences.

What does the bible say?

Look at what the guy is teaching, it is outright satanic. It comes from the world. He is a FOOL.

He is against churches claiming all of them are greedy (pastor has a right to be paid, shall there be no meat in God's house??)

Look at this what this deceiver says:

You have to be BORN AGAIN of the Spirit of God to be changed from a SINNER to a SAINT, True Christians are SAINTS, they do not sin. Those who keep on sinning are owned by the devil.

So ALL saved person DO NOT SIN??????? What garbage. Saved people sin all the time, we're not counting on good works, we're counting on the finished work of Jesus. He is our armor in front of God the father. That's why when Adam sinned, God made coverings for both Adam and Eve. Our good works are like filthy rags in front of God, you MUST have the armor of God, which is Jesus.

Caelesto · Jul 4, 2017

Guy sounds like he has lost his way. I will pray for him.

If "true Christians" are only those who do not sin, then we are all going to hell. Which is totally contradictory to the Truth that Jesus gave us. I wouldn't pay him any mind, except maybe to pray that he finds his way back to the light.

2PhiloVoid · Jul 4, 2017

Jesus4Ever said:
So I came across this guy on youtube who is known as finalcall07. He even has his own website.

He claims that he died in 1998 from a heart attack, went to hell and came back and what he has to say about christianity as a whole is...shocking to say the least.

It honestly does not sound like he's making it up but if this is true, then my whole life has been thrown upside down.

Hi Jesus4Ever,

Ok. What has this older gentleman specifically said that has you wondering about your salvation?

I watched some of his short videos, and I hear him saying something to the effect that he is concerned that some people aren't making real commitments to Jesus as Lord (which is true to some extent; some don't).

However, at the same time, he seems to place way too much emphasis on being sinless and expressing faith purely as acts of obedience and then saying that "we save ourselves." This isn't quite right.

At most, I'd say he is an individual who perhaps has good intentions, but whose actual understanding of the Gospel message in the Holy Scriptures is a bit ... inaccurate. So, Jesus4Ever, it might be good for you to find other Christian teaching sources from which to learn. There's no need to wreck your nerves or your peace of mind by watching a wide swath of amateurs like him on youtube.

Do yourself a favor and focus on the fact that God the Father sent us Jesus because we can't save ourselves, and we receive this gift from God by agreeing with Him that sin is wrong and then responding to Him in faith. Ok?

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

ByTheSpirit · Jul 4, 2017

I am not addressing the video I haven't watched it and really don't care to. But I do want to address the idea here that "we sin because we are human". It is true that we will stumble but our stumbling should be less and less as our time in Christ goes on. 1 John 1:5-7 makes it abundantly clear that if we walk in darkness we are lost with no salvation. Walking in the light means constantly living in holiness, not giving in to sin just because.

Now no one here from what I have seen has said we should just sin because but I want others who may read this to know, sin is not ok and it is not to be ok with it. You should hate sin to the point that it makes you sick. You should repent and immediately pursues righteous living the instant you realize a mistake has been made.

redleghunter · Jul 4, 2017

Jesus4Ever said:
So I came across this guy on youtube who is known as finalcall07. He even has his own website.

He claims that he died in 1998 from a heart attack, went to hell and came back and what he has to say about christianity as a whole is...shocking to say the least.

It honestly does not sound like he's making it up but if this is true, then my whole life has been thrown upside down.

What did he say to throw your whole life upside down?

redleghunter · Jul 4, 2017

2PhiloVoid said:
Hi Jesus4Ever,

Ok. What has this older gentleman specifically said that has you wondering about your salvation?

I watched some of his short videos, and I hear him saying something to the effect that he is concerned that some people aren't making real commitments to Jesus as Lord (which is true to some extent; some don't).

However, at the same time, he seems to place way too much emphasis on being sinless and expressing faith purely as acts of obedience and then saying that "we save ourselves." This isn't quite right.

At most, I'd say he is an individual who perhaps has good intentions, but his actual understanding of the Gospel message in the Holy Scriptures is a bit ... inaccurate. So, Jesus4Ever, it might be good for you to find other Christian teaching sources from which to learn. There's no need to wreck your nerves or your peace of mind by watching a wide swath of amateurs like him on youtube.

Do yourself a favor and focus on the fact that God the Father sent us Jesus because we can't save ourselves, and we receive this gift from God by agreeing with Him that sin is wrong and then responding to Him in faith. Ok?

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

So the message from hell is a works based salvation. Wow go figure.

I always marvel at the messengers of sinless perfection. When they post here I ask if they have achieved this perfection. I either don't get an answer or they lash out with insults which means the answer is no.

redleghunter · Jul 4, 2017

ByTheSpirit said:
It is true that we will stumble but our stumbling should be less and less as our time in Christ goes on.

I agree.

ByTheSpirit · Jul 4, 2017

There used to be a guy here on CF that went by the name "Giver" that would preach a very similar message. Said Jesus himself taught him only from 1 John that if a believer sinned they were lost forever having committed sin.

Jesus4Ever · Jul 4, 2017

2PhiloVoid said:
Hi Jesus4Ever,

Ok. What has this older gentleman specifically said that has you wondering about your salvation?

I watched some of his short videos, and I hear him saying something to the effect that he is concerned that some people aren't making real commitments to Jesus as Lord (which is true to some extent; some don't).

However, at the same time, he seems to place way too much emphasis on being sinless and expressing faith purely as acts of obedience and then saying that "we save ourselves." This isn't quite right.

At most, I'd say he is an individual who perhaps has good intentions, but whose actual understanding of the Gospel message in the Holy Scriptures is a bit ... inaccurate. So, Jesus4Ever, it might be good for you to find other Christian teaching sources from which to learn. There's no need to wreck your nerves or your peace of mind by watching a wide swath of amateurs like him on youtube.

Do yourself a favor and focus on the fact that God the Father sent us Jesus because we can't save ourselves, and we receive this gift from God by agreeing with Him that sin is wrong and then responding to Him in faith. Ok?

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

But that's just it! He says we should be sinless and then Jesus will lead us with the Holy Spirit if we are baptized and if we follow Him. Yet he also says you can know Jesus without the bible through the Holy Spirit, that He will give you direction.

He quotes scripture and says to follow what is in scripture, but then also says that you don't need scripture, but only Jesus.

Jesus4Ever · Jul 5, 2017

redleghunter said:
What did he say to throw your whole life upside down?

For instance, he says that to be a believer you must remain separate and lonely from the world.

I live with my parents and brother, who are all unbelievers. Most of my family and friends are unbelievers too. I want to follow Jesus but...I don't want to hurt my friends and family by leaving them.

Jesus4Ever · Jul 5, 2017

redleghunter said:
So the message from hell is a works based salvation. Wow go figure.

I always marvel at the messengers of sinless perfection. When they post here I ask if they have achieved this perfection. I either don't get an answer or they lash out with insults which means the answer is no.

He will tell you that he is sinless and that Jesus did it.

2PhiloVoid · Jul 5, 2017

Jesus4Ever said:
But that's just it! He says we should be sinless and then Jesus will lead us with the Holy Spirit if we are baptized and if we follow Him. Yet he also says you can know Jesus without the bible through the Holy Spirit, that He will give you direction.

He quotes scripture and says to follow what is in scripture, but then also says that you don't need scripture, but only Jesus.

Jesus4Ever, some of what he proposes has a logic that is parallel to the "chicken or the egg" conundrum.

Finalcal07 says we should be sinless. The problem is that it is simply him that is saying we should be sinless. Where does he get the authorization to say that? Surely a personal claim that he went to hell and back isn't a clear qualifier to us that he has some kind of authority. So, again, I ask, where does he get the authorization to say this? (And I'm not asking this to challenge you. Nor do I expect you to answer the question, but I think it would benefit you to think about this conundrum.)

Furthermore, in what ways does he mean that we "don't need the Bible" to know Jesus? His full meaning isn't so clear from some of the things he says. I would think that we would HAVE to have some knowledge of the Gospel as given in the New Testament in order for us to know that we are directing our prayers and obedience to the Lord as He has described to us to do. Otherwise, we're all trying to follow a Jesus that we each make up for ourselves ... even one that demands we be sinless.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

redleghunter · Jul 5, 2017

Jesus4Ever said:
But that's just it! He says we should be sinless and then Jesus will lead us with the Holy Spirit if we are baptized and if we follow Him. Yet he also says you can know Jesus without the bible through the Holy Spirit, that He will give you direction.

He quotes scripture and says to follow what is in scripture, but then also says that you don't need scripture, but only Jesus.

Well this proves he spent time in hell as that is where he is getting his doctrine.

Jesus refuted Satan using Holy Scriptures (Matthew 4) three times. Jesus used Scriptures to tell an assembled group He was the Messiah (Luke 4).

Jesus opened the minds of the disciples so they could find Him in Holy Scriptures (Luke 24).

This man sets himself up to be the sole source of truth discounting Holy Scriptures. That is what cult leaders do. They want to be the source and summit of "truth" to attract gullible people who yearn for someone to tell them exactly what they want to hear and tell them what exactly to do.

Cults are built on this. Avoid this satanic cultist.

Satan wants people to believe salvation is either too easy or too hard.

redleghunter · Jul 5, 2017

Jesus4Ever said:
For instance, he says that to be a believer you must remain separate and lonely from the world.

I live with my parents and brother, who are all unbelievers. Most of my family and friends are unbelievers too. I want to follow Jesus but...I don't want to hurt my friends and family by leaving them.

Well we are in the world but not of it.

I'm sure this cult leader has a place where people can go to avoid unsaved family members? If there is such a place I don't recommend anyone to drink the Koolaid.

redleghunter · Jul 5, 2017

Jesus4Ever said:
He will tell you that he is sinless and that Jesus did it.

Well he's not sinless. The man is obviously lying to us and that is a sin.

Jesus4Ever · Jul 5, 2017

2PhiloVoid said:
Jesus4Ever, some of what he proposes has a logic that is parallel to the "chicken or the egg" conundrum.

Finalcal07 says we should be sinless. The problem is that it is simply him that is saying we should be sinless. Where does he get the authorization to say that? Surely a personal claim that he went to hell and back isn't a clear qualifier to us that he has some kind of authority. So, again, I ask, where does he get the authorization to say this? (And I'm not asking this to challenge you. Nor do I expect you to answer the question, but I think it would benefit you to think about this conundrum.)

Furthermore, in what ways does he mean that we "don't need the Bible" to know Jesus? His full meaning isn't so clear from some of the things he says. I would think that we would HAVE to have some knowledge of the Gospel as given in the New Testament in order for us to know that we are directing our prayers and obedience to the Lord as He has described to us to do. Otherwise, we're all trying to follow a Jesus that we each make up for ourselves ... even one that demands we be sinless.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

He says he gets it from the Holy Spirit, from Jesus.

Jesus4Ever · Jul 5, 2017

redleghunter said:
Well we are in the world but not of it.

I'm sure this cult leader has a place where people can go to avoid unsaved family members? If there is such a place I don't recommend anyone to drink the Koolaid.

Actually all he says is to seek Jesus. He does not tell you to go anywhere. In fact, his argument against churches is that they don't worship Jesus properly, and that you (as in saved believers who have the Holy Spirit) are the church.

Do you think this guy is for real?

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