Does God Love Everyone, "Unconditionally"?

Alithos Anesti · Jun 27, 2017

God's unconditional love is for those in Christ (Romans 8)

And those not in Christ are under His wrath (John 3:36)

So I would say the only condition on God's love is if one is in Christ, otherwise I wouldn't say God loves everyone unconditionally, there are also verses saying God hated certain people (Psalm 11:5)

TheSeabass · Jun 27, 2017

RaymondG said:
You sit atop a wall of man's wisdom so high, that my words cannot reach you. Continue to believe your interpretations until you are shown something new.

The bible does not teach salvation can be found after death, nor does 1 Pet 3:18-19. You have yet to prove otherwise.

RisenInJesus · Jun 27, 2017

Rodo7777777 said:
The scriptures seem to give abundant evidence that God does not love everyone, and when someone sites John 3:16, we have to consider the meaning of the word "The whole world"... Did God love Esau, Does God love the Devil?

I think if you were to read the verse about "God hating Esau" in context of the passage Paul in Romans quoted from in Malachi and the related passage in Genesis you would realize it is not saying God hated Esau personally. As for the devil, he as a spirit being and not a human descendant of Adam and Eve on this earth, so would not be included in love God has for the world in John 3:16.

Rodo7777777 said:
In the first place, many people believe that “world” means all people without exception. In other words, when John 3:16 says that God loves the world, it means that He loves every person, head for head, equally. The logic goes something like this: God loves every person; Christ died for every person; therefore, salvation is possible for every person. However, this view seems to suggest that God’s love is impotent and Christ’s death is ineffectual. Otherwise, the natural conclusion of this position would be that every person is actually saved rather than just potentially saved. If God loves every person, and Christ died for every person, and God’s love is not impotent, and Christ’s death is not ineffectual, then the only conclusion one can draw is that salvation has been secured for every person. Yet this viewpoint contradicts the Bible’s teaching on God’s judgment as is evidenced by the immediate context in John 3:17–21.

I am not sure I understand how this view suggests that God's love or Christ's death is ineffectual, impotent or contradicts God's judgment in any way. This seems no different than saying that the 1O commandments are ineffectual or have their value diminished because everyone does not obey them. Clearly God's love and Christ's death have value in and of themselves and certainly for those who do personally respond to God's love. If God desires human beings to be in a relationship with Himself and to respond to Him freely with genuine love and He designed and planned for this with the awareness that some would not respond or choose love, then what is ineffectual? A person can love another, sacrifice for another demonstrating real love by every definition of love and yet the other person may not love in return. Does that mean the love was ineffectual or was the one who refused such love simply a fool?

sdowney717 · Jun 27, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
I think if you were to read the verse about "God hating Esau" in context of the passage Paul in Romans quoted from in Malachi and the related passage in Genesis you would realize it is not saying God hated Esau personally. As for the devil, he as a spirit being and not a human descendant of Adam and Eve on this earth, so would not be included in love God has for the world in John 3:16.

I am not sure I understand how this view suggests that God's love or Christ's death is ineffectual, impotent or contradicts God's judgment in any way. This seems no different than saying that the 1O commandments are ineffectual or have their value diminished because everyone does not obey them. Clearly God's love and Christ's death have value in and of themselves and certainly for those who do personally respond to God's love. If God desires human beings to be in a relationship with Himself and to respond to Him freely with genuine love and He designed and planned for this with the awareness that some would not respond or choose love, then what is ineffectual? A person can love another, sacrifice for another demonstrating real love by every definition of love and yet the other person may not love in return. Does that mean the love was ineffectual or was the one who refused such love simply a fool?

In john 6, Jesus clearly tells us some truths. That we DO NOT come to Him unless The Father has granted that to us.
So does God love everybody, but God only gives some people to His Son so that they are saved?
Why would God wait patiently for those He knows will not be coming to Christ because He has not given them to Christ?
The idea is more along that of Christ's parable of the wheat and the tares. Christ says, leave them both to grow together in God's field, the world, and at the end separate out the wicked from the just, lest by God showing His wrath against the wicked, some of the just suffer.
There are the family of God planted by the Son of Man in God's field the world. And there are the sons of disobedience, the sons of the wicked one, the devil, planted by the devil. There is none else.

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day

vic Pfitz · Jun 27, 2017

God does love unconditionally but not the things we do that are sinful It is God that gave us forgiveness if we are repentant. It is God that gives us the faith to believe. (Ephesians 2:8-9) We have the power to reject the free salvation he has offered us. Is rejection of God's Grace the only unforgivable sin? I think so

jimmyjimmy · Jun 27, 2017

stealthsaint said:
Hell is "tough love" maybe

That's just been nominated for the quote of the week here on CF.

jimmyjimmy · Jun 27, 2017

Beautyinsteadofashes said:
Yes!!!! God loves you, God loves Everyone unconditionally. Doesn't matter what we have done. Unconditional means without any conditions. God detests sin, not the sinner.
So if you're thinking, "but you don't know what I've done...how could God love me?" know that His love is truly unconditional. He will never leave you nor forsake you.
And if you're thinking, "How can God love so and so after what they have done?" remember, again, His love is unconditional. He is also a just God. He is our vindicator. He sees that wrong that was done. Also, when you wonder how God can love someone after what they have done pray that He softens your heart. Pray that He helps you see with His eyes of love and not with eyes of judgement. And learn to forgI've, not for them but for you.
( I have to work on that last part myself. Ill get there)

Can I (rightly) say to anyone walking down the street, "God loves you unconditionally"?

jimmyjimmy · Jun 27, 2017

Alithos Anesti said:
God's unconditional love is for those in Christ (Romans 8)

And those not in Christ are under His wrath (John 3:36)

So I would say the only condition on God's love is if one is in Christ, otherwise I wouldn't say God loves everyone unconditionally, there are also verses saying God hated certain people (Psalm 11:5)

"In Christ". Now we are getting somewhere.

RaymondG · Jun 27, 2017

TheSeabass said:
The bible does not teach salvation can be found after death, nor does 1 Pet 3:18-19. You have yet to prove otherwise.

Death is a prerequisite for Salvation. Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He who seeks to save His life will lose it.....

Truth isnt proven or learned.....it is known. Should should continue studying and understanding the word yourself until you are ready for the only one called teacher.

RisenInJesus · Jun 27, 2017

sdowney717 said:
In john 6, Jesus clearly tells us some truths. That we DO NOT come to Him unless The Father has granted that to us.
So does God love everybody, but God only gives some people to His Son so that they are saved?
Why would God wait patiently for those He knows will not be coming to Christ because He has not given them to Christ?
The idea is more along that of Christ's parable of the wheat and the tares. Christ says, leave them both to grow together in God's field, the world, and at the end separate out the wicked from the just, lest by God showing His wrath against the wicked, some of the just suffer.
There are the family of God planted by the Son of Man in God's field the world. And there are the sons of disobedience, the sons of the wicked one, the devil, planted by the devil. There is none else.

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day

Jesus also said, "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” This He said, signifying by what death He would die. John 12:32-33

You may notice in the passage you quoted it makes reference a few verses prior to the manna in the desert as a picture of Christ as the bread of life. Who did God send this manna to. Wasn't it to ALL the children of Israel. In John 6:44 it does not say that the Father only draws some or did not send Jesus for everyone. It simply says no one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws. Jesus says, "I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” John 6:51. He also says, "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day". John 6:54

Since earlier in the passage Jesus' disciples had already asked Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” and Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” (John 6:28-29) then it appears plain from the text that the Father gives to Jesus those who have believed in Him. So although, the Father sent His Son to all demonstrating His love to all sinners, only those who believe are saved. The Passover is another example. The children of Israel all had the blood of the Passover lamb available, but only those who obeyed God and applied the blood to their doorposts had the angel of death Passover.

Hammster · Jun 27, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
The Passover is another example. The children of Israel all had the blood of the Passover lamb available, but only those who obeyed God and applied the blood to their doorposts had the angel of death Passover.

And how did that go for the Egyptians?

RisenInJesus · Jun 27, 2017

Hammster said:
And how did that go for the Egyptians?

Considering that God was working through Israel at that time in history and the Egyptians were blatantly mistreating the children of Israel and resisting God, I think God demonstrated tremendous patience toward them.

RaymondG · Jun 27, 2017

Hammster said:
And how did that go for the Egyptians?

It is more wise to ponder how it went for us. Their story and His story are actually our stories. If we only see history, when cant see and live our story.

RisenInJesus · Jun 27, 2017

Hammster said:
And how did that go for the Egyptians?

I believe God got the attention of Egypt and demonstrated that He is the one true God. Israel was the primary vehicle of God’s revelation, despite Israel’s many failures throughout its history. God had warned that those who cursed his people would be cursed just as those who blessed them would be blessed (Gen 12:3; 27:29; Num 24:10), a principle that another Pharaoh learned as early as Gen 12:17. But God always intended his work in Israel to become a blessing to all the peoples of the earth (Gen 12:3; 18:18; 22:18; 26:4; 28:14).
We have a fuller revelation of God today, offering to all peoples access to God, not just Israel. The climax of Israel’s story comes in Jesus, the fullest revelation of God’s purpose. Egypt was one of the earliest areas massively converted to Christian faith in the first few centuries after Christ. In Jesus, God demonstrates his love for all the world. Jesus bore the curse to bring salvation and eternal life to anyone who has faith in Him, from any of the peoples of the earth. God loved not only Israel, and not only Egyptians, but God loved the world: he proved it in giving his Son for all of us (John 3:16; Rom 5:6).

Hammster · Jun 27, 2017

RaymondG said:
It is more wise to ponder how it went for us. Their story and His story are actually our stories. If we only see history, when cant see and live our story.

Since it goes to the OP, I think it's a good question.

And their story isn't my story.

Hammster · Jun 27, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
I believe God got the attention of Egypt and demonstrated that He is the one true God. Israel was the primary vehicle of God’s revelation, despite Israel’s many failures throughout its history. God had warned that those who cursed his people would be cursed just as those who blessed them would be blessed (Gen 12:3; 27:29; Num 24:10), a principle that another Pharaoh learned as early as Gen 12:17. But God always intended his work in Israel to become a blessing to all the peoples of the earth (Gen 12:3; 18:18; 22:18; 26:4; 28:14).
We have a fuller revelation of God today, offering to all peoples access to God, not just Israel. The climax of Israel’s story comes in Jesus, the fullest revelation of God’s purpose. Egypt was one of the earliest areas massively converted to Christian faith in the first few centuries after Christ. In Jesus, God demonstrates his love for all the world. Jesus bore the curse to bring salvation and eternal life to anyone who has faith in Him, from any of the peoples of the earth. God loved not only Israel, and not only Egyptians, but God loved the world: he proved it in giving his Son for all of us (John 3:16; Rom 5:6).

How does any of this relate to the OP?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jun 27, 2017

RisenInJesus said:
I think if you were to read the verse about "God hating Esau" in context of the passage Paul in Romans quoted from in Malachi and the related passage in Genesis you would realize it is not saying God hated Esau personally.

In the original language/ meaning/ every translation,
YHWH hated Esau,
and in many other Scriptures, (throughout His Word, in complete Harmony with All His Word)
He confirms this, simply.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jun 27, 2017

Hammster said:
How does any of this relate to the OP?

It simply is in the thread about 133 posts after the OP.

Maybe other ways too.

RisenInJesus · Jun 27, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
In the original language/ meaning/ every translation,
YHWH hated Esau,
and in many other Scriptures, (throughout His Word, in complete Harmony with All His Word)
He confirms this, simply.

And in the original language hate does not mean the same thing as the word hate as we use in our language today.

When studying the Bible, it is critically important to always study the context of a particular Bible verse or passage. In these instances, the prophet Malachi and the apostle Paul are using the name “Esau” to refer to the Edomites, who were the descendants of Esau. Isaac and Rebekah had two sons, Esau and Jacob. God chose Jacob (whom He later renamed “Israel”) to be the father of His chosen people, the Israelites. God rejected Esau (who was also called “Edom”) and did not choose him to be the father of His chosen people. Esau and his descendants, the Edomites, were in many ways blessed by God (Genesis 33:9; Genesis chapter 36).

So, considering the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants.
Why did God love Jacob and hate Esau (Malachi 1:3; Romans 9:13)?

jeffinjapan · Jun 27, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
We hear it often. Many of us say it often, but is it true?

Can we rightly tell any person: God loves *you* unconditionally?

The crucifixion of the God-Man was the ultimate display of unconditional love for humankind. And it is because of this unconditional love that we can confidently say that God will continue to offer his mercy and forgiveness in the life and beyond.

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