Muslims claim the Bible has been changed.

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Christian writers in the first 100 years

Although these works are not held to be canonical, nevertheless they likewise affirm the orthodox doctrine of Christianity: that Jesus Christ was crucified and arose from the dead:

In the Epistle of Barnabas.5 (circa 100 AD) it is written: The Son of God came in the flesh with this view, that He might bring to a head the sum of their sins who had persecuted His prophets to death. For this purpose, then, He endured....He Himself willed to suffer, for it was necessary that He should suffer on the tree.


Again in Chapter 7 it was written: The Son of God is Lord, who will judge the living and the dead. He suffered that His stroke might give us life. Let us believe that the Son of God could not have suffered except for our sakes. Moreover, when fixed to the cross, he had given Him to drink vinegar and gall.


Later in the chapter, we again read: They shall see Him then in that day having a scarlet robe about His body down to His feet. And they shall say, 'Is this He whom we once despised and pierced and mocked and crucified? Truly this is.' He who then declared Himself to be the Son of God, for how like is He to Him!

Barnabas attested to the resurrection in chapter 15: We keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus arose from the dead. And when He manifested Himself, He ascended into the heavens.

Clement of Rome left no doubt that Jesus was put to death and arose from the dead in his First Epistle (circa 66 AD). For example, in chapter 49 Clement wrote, "Jesus Christ, our Lord, gave His blood for us by the will of God; His flesh for our flesh, and His soul for our souls." Clement wrote about the resurrection in chapter 24: The Lord continually proves to us that there shall be a resurrection, of which He has rendered the Lord Jesus Christ the first fruits by raising Him from the dead.

Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John wrote this in his Epistle to the Philippians.1 "Our Lord Jesus Christ for our sins suffered unto death, whom God raised from the dead, having loosed the bands of the grave." He repeated this doctrine again in chapter 9: Him who died for us and for our sakes was raised again by God from the dead.

There are numerous references to the orthodox doctrine of the crucifixion and resurrection in the epistles of Ignatius (107 AD). For example, in the Epistle to the Trallians.9 he wrote, Jesus Christ was descended from David, and was also of Mary; who was truly born and did eat and drink. He was truly persecuted under Pontius Pilate; He was truly crucified and died in the sight of beings in heaven and on earth and under the earth. He was also truly raised from the dead, His father reviving Him. The same message is found in the Epistle to the Smyrnaens.1

Here we have writings from four authors who were second generation Christians. They were acquainted with those who personally knew and saw that Jesus Christ was crucified, died and raised to life. All of these writings appeared less than 100 years after the Ascension.

ANCIENT NON-CHRISTIAN SOURCES



Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome:

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."



Flavius Josephus (37-97 AD), court historian for Emperor Vespasian:

"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." (Arabic translation)



Julius Africanus, writing around 221 AD, found a reference in the writings of Thallus, who wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean around 52 AD, which dealt with the darkness that covered the land during Jesus's crucifixion:

"Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away the darkness as an eclipse of the sun--unreasonably, as it seems to me." [A solar eclipse could not take place during a full moon, as was the case during Passover season.]



Pliny the Younger, Roman governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor around 112 AD:

"[The Christians] were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food--but food of an ordinary and innocent kind." Pliny added that Christianity attracted persons of all societal ranks, all ages, both sexes, and from both the city and the country. Late in his letter to Emperor Trajan, Pliny refers to the teachings of Jesus and his followers as excessive and contagious superstition.


[Note: the fixed day was Sunday, the day Jesus rose from the dead.]


The Jewish Talmud, compiled between 70 and 200 AD:

"On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Anyone who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover."

[Another early reference in the Talmud speaks of five of Jesus's disciples and recounts their standing before judges who make individual decisions about each one, deciding that they should be executed. However, no actual deaths are recorded.]



Lucian, a second century Greek satirist:

"The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. ... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property." Lucian also reported that the Christians had "sacred writings" which were frequently read. When something affected them, "they spare no trouble, no expense."



Mara Bar-Serapion, of Syria, writing between 70 and 200 AD from prison to motivate his son to emulate wise teachers of the past:

"What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burying Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise king die for good; he lived on in the teaching which he had given."


Source: westarkchurchofchrist

Apocryphal Scriptures agree on Crucifixion



What do the ancient writings of various heretical cults in the latter part of the first century and in the second century tell us about Jesus’ death and resurrection?



They tell us Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead.

The Ebionites (aka Nazoreans or Hebrews):



We know that they regarded the resurrection as an historical fact from this passage:

The Lord, having given the linen cloth to the servant of the priest, went to James and appeared to him, for James had sworn that he would not eat bread from the time when he had drunk the Lord's cup until he saw the Lord risen from the dead. And shortly afterward, the Lord said, "Bring a table and bread." And immediately it is added, the Lord took bread and blessed it, and broke it and gave it to James the Just, and said to him, "My brother, eat your bread, for the Son of Man is raised from the dead."



According to their Gospel, Jesus was crucified: “At this word of the Lord, many thousands of Jews standing around the crossbelieved.”



Gospel of Peter:



But that extant fragment covers the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. The details differ considerably from the canonical Gospels: Jesus cried out, "My Power, My Power, why hast thou forsaken Me?"

The resurrection account has been conflated from the synoptic Gospels and John with some lengthy interpolations. For example, the soldiers reported this:

They saw the heavens opened and two men descend from there with great light and approach the tomb. And that stone which was placed at the door rolled of itself and made way in part and the tomb was opened and both of the young men entered in....Again they see three men come forth from the tomb, and two of them supporting one, and a cross following them. And of the two the head reached unto the heaven, but the head of Him that was led by them overpassed the heavens. And they heard a voice from the heavens saying, "You have preached to them that sleep." And a response was heard from the cross, "Yes."

Then the Gospel of Peter also gives us the canonical version: And they went and found the tomb opened, and coming near they looked in there. And they see a certain young man sitting in the midst of the tomb, beautiful and clothed in a robe exceeding bright, who said to them, "Wherefore are you come? Whom do you seek? Him that was crucified? He is risen and gone. But if you do not believe, look in and see the place where He lay, that He is not here. For He is risen and gone thither, to where He was sent." Then the women feared and fled. The fragment ends based on John 21 with the disciples heading off to the sea.

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You said:

Due to the numerous accounts from the Disciples saying, Jesus pbuh wasn't crucified.

And you come up with James ad Jude who were not Jesus' disciples?

James and Jude became believers after Jesus was risen from the dead.

As for the Didache. I don't think you have read the Didache. This is the text:

The Didache
The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations.
Chapter 1. The Two Ways and the First Commandment. There are two ways, one of life and one of death, but a great difference between the two ways. The way of life, then, is this: First, you shall love God who made you; second, love your neighbor as yourself, and do not do to another what you would not want done to you. And of these sayings the teaching is this: Bless those who curse you, and pray for your enemies, and fast for those who persecute you. For what reward is there for loving those who love you? Do not the Gentiles do the same? But love those who hate you, and you shall not have an enemy. Abstain from fleshly and worldly lusts. If someone strikes your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and you shall be perfect. If someone impresses you for one mile, go with him two. If someone takes your cloak, give him also your coat. If someone takes from you what is yours, ask it not back, for indeed you are not able. Give to every one who asks you, and ask it not back; for the Father wills that to all should be given of our own blessings (free gifts). Happy is he who gives according to the commandment, for he is guiltless. Woe to him who receives; for if one receives who has need, he is guiltless; but he who receives not having need shall pay the penalty, why he received and for what. And coming into confinement, he shall be examined concerning the things which he has done, and he shall not escape from there until he pays back the last penny. And also concerning this, it has been said, Let your alms sweat in your hands, until you know to whom you should give.

Chapter 2. The Second Commandment: Grave Sin Forbidden. And the second commandment of the Teaching; You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born. You shall not covet the things of your neighbor, you shall not swear, you shall not bear false witness, you shall not speak evil, you shall bear no grudge. You shall not be double-minded nor double-tongued, for to be double-tongued is a snare of death. Your speech shall not be false, nor empty, but fulfilled by deed. You shall not be covetous, nor rapacious, nor a hypocrite, nor evil disposed, nor haughty. You shall not take evil counsel against your neighbor. You shall not hate any man; but some you shall reprove, and concerning some you shall pray, and some you shall love more than your own life.

Chapter 3. Other Sins Forbidden. My child, flee from every evil thing, and from every likeness of it. Be not prone to anger, for anger leads to murder. Be neither jealous, nor quarrelsome, nor of hot temper, for out of all these murders are engendered. My child, be not a lustful one. for lust leads to fornication. Be neither a filthy talker, nor of lofty eye, for out of all these adulteries are engendered. My child, be not an observer of omens, since it leads to idolatry. Be neither an enchanter, nor an astrologer, nor a purifier, nor be willing to took at these things, for out of all these idolatry is engendered. My child, be not a liar, since a lie leads to theft. Be neither money-loving, nor vainglorious, for out of all these thefts are engendered. My child, be not a murmurer, since it leads the way to blasphemy. Be neither self-willed nor evil-minded, for out of all these blasphemies are engendered.

Rather, be meek, since the meek shall inherit the earth. Be long-suffering and pitiful and guileless and gentle and good and always trembling at the words which you have heard. You shall not exalt yourself, nor give over-confidence to your soul. Your soul shall not be joined with lofty ones, but with just and lowly ones shall it have its intercourse. Accept whatever happens to you as good, knowing that apart from God nothing comes to pass.

Chapter 4. Various Precepts. My child, remember night and day him who speaks the word of God to you, and honor him as you do the Lord. For wherever the lordly rule is uttered, there is the Lord. And seek out day by day the faces of the saints, in order that you may rest upon their words. Do not long for division, but rather bring those who contend to peace. Judge righteously, and do not respect persons in reproving for transgressions. You shall not be undecided whether or not it shall be. Be not a stretcher forth of the hands to receive and a drawer of them back to give. If you have anything, through your hands you shall give ransom for your sins. Do not hesitate to give, nor complain when you give; for you shall know who is the good repayer of the hire. Do not turn away from him who is in want; rather, share all things with your brother, and do not say that they are your own. For if you are partakers in that which is immortal, how much more in things which are mortal? Do not remove your hand from your son or daughter; rather, teach them the fear of God from their youth. Do not enjoin anything in your bitterness upon your bondman or maidservant, who hope in the same God, lest ever they shall fear not God who is over both; for he comes not to call according to the outward appearance, but to them whom the Spirit has prepared. And you bondmen shall be subject to your masters as to a type of God, in modesty and fear. You shall hate all hypocrisy and everything which is not pleasing to the Lord. Do not in any way forsake the commandments of the Lord; but keep what you have received, neither adding thereto nor taking away therefrom. In the church you shall acknowledge your transgressions, and you shall not come near for your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life.

Chapter 5. The Way of Death. And the way of death is this: First of all it is evil and accursed: murders, adultery, lust, fornication, thefts, idolatries, magic arts, witchcrafts, rape, false witness, hypocrisy, double-heartedness, deceit, haughtiness, depravity, self-will, greediness, filthy talking, jealousy, over-confidence, loftiness, boastfulness; persecutors of the good, hating truth, loving a lie, not knowing a reward for righteousness, not cleaving to good nor to righteous judgment, watching not for that which is good, but for that which is evil; from whom meekness and endurance are far, loving vanities, pursuing revenge, not pitying a poor man, not laboring for the afflicted, not knowing Him Who made them, murderers of children, destroyers of the handiwork of God, turning away from him who is in want, afflicting him who is distressed, advocates of the rich, lawless judges of the poor, utter sinners. Be delivered, children, from all these.

Chapter 6. Against False Teachers, and Food Offered to Idols. See that no one causes you to err from this way of the Teaching, since apart from God it teaches you. For if you are able to bear the entire yoke of the Lord, you will be perfect; but if you are not able to do this, do what you are able. And concerning food, bear what you are able; but against that which is sacrificed to idols be exceedingly careful; for it is the service of dead gods.

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

Chapter 8. Fasting and Prayer (the Lord's Prayer). But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites, for they fast on the second and fifth day of the week. Rather, fast on the fourth day and the Preparation (Friday). Do not pray like the hypocrites, but rather as the Lord commanded in His Gospel, like this:

Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily (needful) bread, and forgive us our debt as we also forgive our debtors. And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one (or, evil); for Thine is the power and the glory for ever..

Pray this three times each day.

Chapter 9. The Eucharist. Now concerning the Eucharist, give thanks this way. First, concerning the cup:

We thank thee, our Father, for the holy vine of David Thy servant, which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever..

And concerning the broken bread:
We thank Thee, our Father, for the life and knowledge which You madest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever. Even as this broken bread was scattered over the hills, and was gathered together and became one, so let Thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into Thy kingdom; for Thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever..

But let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs."

Chapter 10. Prayer after Communion. But after you are filled, give thanks this way:

We thank Thee, holy Father, for Thy holy name which You didst cause to tabernacle in our hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality, which You modest known to us through Jesus Thy Servant; to Thee be the glory for ever. Thou, Master almighty, didst create all things for Thy name's sake; You gavest food and drink to men for enjoyment, that they might give thanks to Thee; but to us You didst freely give spiritual food and drink and life eternal through Thy Servant. Before all things we thank Thee that You are mighty; to Thee be the glory for ever. Remember, Lord, Thy Church, to deliver it from all evil and to make it perfect in Thy love, and gather it from the four winds, sanctified for Thy kingdom which Thou have prepared for it; for Thine is the power and the glory for ever. Let grace come, and let this world pass away. Hosanna to the God (Son) of David! If any one is holy, let him come; if any one is not so, let him repent. Maranatha. Amen.

But permit the prophets to make Thanksgiving as much as they desire.

Chapter 11. Concerning Teachers, Apostles, and Prophets. Whosoever, therefore, comes and teaches you all these things that have been said before, receive him. But if the teacher himself turns and teaches another doctrine to the destruction of this, hear him not. But if he teaches so as to increase righteousness and the knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord. But concerning the apostles and prophets, act according to the decree of the Gospel. Let every apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord. But he shall not remain more than one day; or two days, if there's a need. But if he remains three days, he is a false prophet. And when the apostle goes away, let him take nothing but bread until he lodges. If he asks for money, he is a false prophet. And every prophet who speaks in the Spirit you shall neither try nor judge; for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven. But not every one who speaks in the Spirit is a prophet; but only if he holds the ways of the Lord. Therefore from their ways shall the false prophet and the prophet be known. And every prophet who orders a meal in the Spirit does not eat it, unless he is indeed a false prophet. And every prophet who teaches the truth, but does not do what he teaches, is a false prophet. And every prophet, proved true, working unto the mystery of the Church in the world, yet not teaching others to do what he himself does, shall not be judged among you, for with God he has his judgment; for so did also the ancient prophets. But whoever says in the Spirit, Give me money, or something else, you shall not listen to him. But if he tells you to give for others' sake who are in need, let no one judge him.

Chapter 12. Reception of Christians. But receive everyone who comes in the name of the Lord, and prove and know him afterward; for you shall have understanding right and left. If he who comes is a wayfarer, assist him as far as you are able; but he shall not remain with you more than two or three days, if need be. But if he wants to stay with you, and is an artisan, let him work and eat. But if he has no trade, according to your understanding, see to it that, as a Christian, he shall not live with you idle. But if he wills not to do, he is a Christ-monger. Watch that you keep away from such.

Chapter 13. Support of Prophets. But every true prophet who wants to live among you is worthy of his support. So also a true teacher is himself worthy, as the workman, of his support. Every first-fruit, therefore, of the products of wine-press and threshing-floor, of oxen and of sheep, you shall take and give to the prophets, for they are your high priests. But if you have no prophet, give it to the poor. If you make a batch of dough, take the first-fruit and give according to the commandment. So also when you open a jar of wine or of oil, take the first-fruit and give it to the prophets; and of money (silver) and clothing and every possession, take the first-fruit, as it may seem good to you, and give according to the commandment.

Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."

Chapter 15. Bishops and Deacons; Christian Reproof. Appoint, therefore, for yourselves, bishops and deacons worthy of the Lord, men meek, and not lovers of money, and truthful and proved; for they also render to you the service of prophets and teachers. Therefore do not despise them, for they are your honored ones, together with the prophets and teachers. And reprove one another, not in anger, but in peace, as you have it in the Gospel. But to anyone that acts amiss against another, let no one speak, nor let him hear anything from you until he repents. But your prayers and alms and all your deeds so do, as you have it in the Gospel of our Lord.

Chapter 16. Watchfulness; the Coming of the Lord. Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you are not made perfect in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but those who endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead -- yet not of all, but as it is said: "The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him." Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.
---
The The Eucharist observes the death and resurrection of the Messiah.

Now back up you statement:

"also paints Jesus as a human, and recommends people follow his teachings, rather than the man himself."

Note "Lord" in the text refers to Jesus.

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You were the one who brought up AGAINST heresies.

Against Heresies Summary - eNotes.com

You were the one who brought up the Didache. (50-120 AD) and it doesn't say what you claimed it said.

At the time the Didache was written the Christians knew what communion meant.

In order for a book to be considered Canon, it had to have been written by an Apostle or one the the Apostle's disciples, so why bring up books that didn't meant that criteria and could not have been written by them?

BTW, the Admadis believe Jesus was crucified by didn't die and died later when Jesus was 120 years old and they read the same Qur'an you do.

Books you should read:

How God Became Jesus: The Real Origins of Belief in Jesus' Divine Nature---A Response to Bart D. Ehrman: Michael F. Bird, Dr. Craig A. Evans, Simon Gathercole, Charles E. Hill, Chris Tilling: 9780310519591: Amazon.com: Books

Misquoting Truth: A Guide to the Fallacies of Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus": Timothy Paul Jones: 9780830834471: Amazon.com: Books

Bart Ehrman is a sad case; he writes these books to make money. IHe tends to write the same book over and over again with a catchy title -- more money. I have all his books and have spoken to him personally.

No where in the Qur'an does it say that the text of the Bible has been changed.

So since the Qur'an says it confirms what we have in our hands, when the Qur'an contradicts what we have in our hands, the the logical conclusion is that the Qur'an is corrupt/wrong.

Birmingham Qur'an:

http://www.answering-islam.org/fileadmin/authors/smith/birmingham_quran.pdf

Clips:

1) This is not the first manuscript fragment to be tested using Radio Carbon dating, as a few months ago scholars at the Tübingen University in Germany came out with similar findings on a set of fragments they tested at their laboratory. There is on going work on that manuscript which is showing a number of variants to the text, which are being prepared for publication.

(The entire Tübingen manuscript can be viewed online here: unituebingen.de You can notice that many of the variants are visible as corrections that have been made to the text)

2) One has to remember that the Radio Carbon dating is not the date of the writing on the manuscript but only the parchment it was written on. This is quite significant, since the latest dating of 645 AD would only be the date that the animal died. The ink could have been applied many years or even decades later. In fact one of the Radio Carbon dating of the Sanaa palimpsest goes back before Muhammad's prophetic career (pre 600 AD).

The current scholarly consensus, however, is that there are usually not a number of decades between the day an animal died and when it would finally be used for the writing of a manuscript, except in the case of re-using old manuscripts [see comments on palimpsests in no. 4 below]. Animals were often killed and their skins quickly converted to parchment in order to fulfill commissions for luxury manuscripts because often a large part of a herd were required for the production of the volume.

3) Dating of the ink and pigment is a new area of study, and will feature more prominently in future early Qur’anic manuscript projects. Then we will have much more accurate dating for early Qur’ans. This will add another criterion for constructing accurate dates for early Qur’ans.

4) Sometimes parchment, or velum manuscripts are erased (the ink would be washed off) and then written again over top. These are known as ‘Palimpsests’. The Tübingen fragments may have evidence of these layers of overwriting, which would mean that the script we are reading could have been written many decades later. We have not been told yet whether these Birmingham fragments could also be Palimpsests. If so, we could be looking at just the latest layer of writing of a Qur’anic text. Initial examination does not seem to indicate that they are, but it is a possibility one must consider, since sometimes the removal of the original texts was done extremely well and is difficult to detect after the fact.

5) According to the scholar, Avi Lewis, since the Radio Carbon test shows that these folios were possibly written between 568 and 645 AD, the parchment may have been written well before the years 610 through 632, the alleged time of the “revelation” of the Qur’an, maybe even before the time the alleged Prophet Muhammad would have been an adult man. That would be in agreement with other observations, e.g. that made by the late famous Taha Husain in 1926, who said that the Qur'an contains pre-Islamic metric poetry.

8) These particular Birmingham fragments show four instances of diacritical mark textual variants, one with grammatical implications, and another a nonsense reading (see the breakdown below), proving that even this text has early textual variants, as well as verse numbering differences.

10) The variations in this text confirm what we already know from the later Islamic Traditions, that there was early editing to create a basic textual form. Dr Brubaker’s thesis last year also proved this, as he found over 800 of these corrections in the 10 larger Qur’ans he looked at, most of which were dated from the later 8th – 9th centuries, proving that these variations and corrections continue for another 200 years.

12) Even certain Muslims are skeptical of this discovery. Saud al-Sarhan, the director of research at the King Faisal Center for Research and Islamic Studies in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, doubts that the folios found in Birmingham were as old as the researchers claimed, noting that its Arabic script included dots and separated chapters — features that were introduced a century or two later. He also referred to the possibility that these folios were washed clean and reused later, as palimpsests. One can understand the dilemma for many Muslims concerning these very early dates within the spectrum for the Carbon dating of these folios, as it suggests that they could have been created before Islam existed (i.e. 568 AD), forcing them to choose the later, post 632 AD dates.

13) Another scholar, Behnam Sadeghi, possibly realizing the problems these folios may pose for Muslims, has just written a clever response, suggesting that, due to the variants, these folios are possibly nothing more than 'Companion Texts' which were then corrected into one standardized form, at the time of Uthman (see his article here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east- 33631745). Interestingly, he is forced to admit that these earlier texts included "words and phrases [that] were different...These differences sometimes affected the meaning", though he suggests they didn't change the tenor of the Qur'an. Not too many Muslims will appreciate such a public admission.

15) This all suggests that there has never been just one precise, or even complete text of the Qur’an which was preserved perfectly, and used by all Muslims, even today. It looks like these folios (whatever their final dates) belong to a school of textual variants, referred to in later traditions, and may belong to a larger manuscript, one that was then standardized into one final canonized text at some later date. When that canonized Qur'an was finalized is the answer we are all waiting to know. Hold this space. A CLOSER LOOK AT THE BIRMINGHAM FOLIOS

See rest of article.

Muslim-UK said:

The link just takes you to the homepage. Post the link to the article please.

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http://crossexamined.org/is-the-new-testament-reliable-erhman-refutes-ehrman/

Rebuttals to Bart Ehrman:

Book Forged:


http://www.risenjesus.com/review-of-bart-ehrmans-book-forged-writing-in-the-name-of-god

Book Review of Bart D. Ehrman’s Forged: Writing in the Name of God—Why the Bible’s Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are

Bart Ehrman's Forged: Next Verse Same as the First

http://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2009/09/27/is-there-a-mistake-in-mark-226/


Mark 2:26, what started it all:

Clip: My challenge to Christians who are intimidated by claims of errors in the Bible is to go do some research for yourself. There are answers to these challenges. Remember, virtually all the Bible difficulties that critics raise have been known for 2,000 years. None of them are new. Instead of throwing your faith away, do some digging. I only wish Ehrman had.


Was the high priest Abiathar (Mark 2:26), or Ahimelech (1 Samuel 21:1; 22:20) when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread? (category: misunderstood the Hebrew usage & misunderstood the historical context) Jesus states that the event happened in the days of Abiathar the high priestand yet we know from 1 Samuel that Abiathar was not actually the high priest at that time; it was his father, Ahimelech. If we were to introduce an anecdote by saying, When king David was a shepherdboy..., it would not be incorrect, even though David was not king at that time. In the same way, Abiathar was soon to be high priest and this is what he is most remembered for, hence he is designated by this title. Moreover, the event certainly did happen in the days of Abiathar, as he was alive and present during the incident. We know from 1 Samuel 22:20 that he narrowly escaped when his fathers whole family and their town was destroyed by Sauls men. Therefore, Jesus statement is quite acceptable. (Archer 1994:362)


Book Misquoting Jesus:

"Misquoting" Jesus? Answering Bart Ehrman: Apologetics on CBN.com

Clip:

Finally (and most damaging), Ehrman’s list proves just the opposite of what he intends. For all his hand wringing that the original text is lost forever, his list itself demonstrates it’s possible to recognize the most important spurious renderings and eliminate them.

Ehrman’s own works (Misquoting and also The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture) prove that the text-critical methods mentioned above—the very methods he uses to critique the New Testament—are adequate to restore the original reading. It is proof that the massive number of variants do not interfere with our ability to recapture the original, but instead the rich manuscript evidence we possess allows us to weed out the vast percentage of variants. Otherwise Ehrman would not be able to say with confidence his “Top Ten”—or any other verses—are not in the New Testament.

This is a fact he acknowledges (again, ironically) in another work. Compare the pessimism of Misquoting Jesus with the optimism expressed in Metzger and Ehrman’s The Text of the New Testament: 35

Besides textual evidence derived from New Testament Greek manuscripts and from early versions, the textual critic compares numerous scriptural quotations used in commentaries, sermons, and other treatises written by early church fathers. Indeed, so extensive are these citations that if all other sources for our knowledge of the text of the New Testament were destroyed, they would be sufficient alone for the reconstruction of practically the entire New Testament. [emphasis added]

https://bible.org/article/gospel-according-bart


Book Jesus Interrupted:


http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2009/04/bart-interrupted-detailed-analysis-of.html

http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2009/04/bart-interrupted-detailed-analysis-of_08.html

http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2009/04/bart-interrupted-detailed-analysis-of_13.html

http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2009/04/bart-interrupted-part-four.html

http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2009/04/bart-interrupted-detailed-analysis-of_16.html

Muslim-UK said:

Obviously Christians are going to fight tooth and nail to rebut critics. The same is true of any belief system. Bart Ehrman is happy for people to raise any rebuttal on his web blog or indeed to challenge him to a public televised debate. 2 of the authors you link to have admitted NT is not the same as what was revealed 2,000 years ago. Mike Licona isn't convinced of his own religion:

Does Christianity have a documented oral tradition? If not then of the 100 or so NT Bible translations, which one is the unaltered word of God?

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Obviously you have not had time to evaluate the rebuttals. I did my part.

How Bart Ehrman proves Muhammad is a false prophet:

Bart D. Ehrman Proves Muhammad is a false prophet Pt. 1

Muslim-UK said:

The very first verse in the oldest Gospel, that of Mark 1:1 proves the Bible has been altered is is thus not preserved.

Current NT read, 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Oldest known NT from Fourth Century reads 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

So who knows what it read like in the First Century.

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Don't take a verse in isolation to try to prove that Jesus is not the Son of God. You must take the New Testament as a whole.

Let's look at what else the Gospel of Mark says:

Mark 1:11
And a voice came from heaven: You are My beloved Son; I take delight in You!

(God calls Jesus His son)

Mark 2:5
Seeing their faith, Jesus told the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
(Jesus forgives sins only God can do)

Mark 2:10
But so you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,” He told the paralytic,

Mark 2:28
Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Mark 3:11
Whenever the unclean spirits saw Him, those possessed fell down before Him and cried out, “You are the Son of God!”

Mark 5:7
And he cried out with a loud voice, “What do You have to do with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You before God, don’t torment me!”

Mark 9:7
A cloud appeared, overshadowing them, and a voice came from the cloud: This is My beloved Son; listen to Him!

Mark 13:26
Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 14:61
But He kept silent and did not answer anything. Again the high priest questioned Him, “Are You the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?”

Mark 14:62
“I am,” said Jesus, “and all of you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.”

Mark 15:39
When the centurion, who was standing opposite Him, saw the way He breathed His last, he said, “This man really was God’s Son!”

Muslim-UK said:

Sorry but the big question which you are obviously missing is if in the 4th Century the 'Son of God' was added to Mark 1:1, and the original was written around 65-70 A.D. then how can we be sure all the other instances of son of God weren't added, how do we know the crucifixion, resurrection accounts weren't added? We can't know for sure unless we have the original Manuscript.

We know Matthew and Luke copied from Mark, often word for word.

Professor Ehrman on the Gospel of Mark:

Show us the originals to correct Scholars like Ehrman.

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The authors of the Gospels had their own sources. Everything was not copied from Mark.

There is a strong contingency who believe Matthew was the first.

Book dates:

James, 47-48AD

1 Thessalonians, early 50’s AD

II Thessalonians, 50-1 AD

1 Corinthians, Spring 55AD

1 Timothy, autumn 55AD

II Corinthians early 56AD

Galatians, later 56AD

Romans, early 57AD

Titus, late spring 57AD

Philippians, spring 58AD

Philemon, summer 58AD

Colossians, summer 58AD

Ephesians, later summer 58AD

II Timothy, autumn 58AD

Mark, 45-60AD,

Matthew, 40-60AD

Luke, 57-60AD,

Jude, 61-2AD

Acts, 57-62AD

John, 40-65+AD

And then we have the earliest creed handed down to Apostle Paul by Jesus' disciples.

Even Ehrman said the death and resurrection of Jesus is intact.

Textual analysis is the answer as to whether we have what was originally written.

You don't have the originals of the Qur'an either. Show up the originals! Ehrman would have a field day with the history of the Qur'an. Ehrman believes all religions are man-made, including Islam.

And then, you have the fact that the Qur'an confirms what we have today and what we have today is what was available when the Qur'an was written, so you are in a pickle.

Muslim-UK said:

"Although some scholars disagree, the vast majority of researchers believe that Mark was the first Gospel to be written, sometime around the year 70."

The Dating of the Gospels

It's for you to prove the Mark of the 4th Century is the same as the 1st. You simply can't.
That little change found in 1:1 proves people were happy to add and make things up, so we have a right to be suspicious. It's not a different word or a spelling error, it's a core Doctrine: Son of GOD

You say James wrote first, so please show me the crucifixion, resurrection and divinity of Jesus pbuh from his letters. Show me salvation is only through the blood of Jesus pbuh.

These core doctrines should be the central theme regardless of which Disciple is preaching the good news.

Please stop being silly. As a non believer, he obviously accepts Jesus pbuh died, whether that was on a cross or from pneumonia is irrelevant to him, Jesus pbuh is buried somewhere in Palestine. He's a Historian, not a Theologian believing in miracles. The Gospels as Historical sources are not reliable, not even written by eyewitnesses.

Not true or relevant to this thread. Obviously Ehrman doesn't believe in Religions. He has 4/5 languages under his belt including Greek, Hebrew and Syriac, it shouldn't be too long for him to learn Arabic and study the sources of Islam if he chose to do so.

Where does it say that?

Click to expand...

And believe in that I have sent down, confirming that which IS with you, and be not the first to disbelieve in it. And sell not My signs for a little price; and fear you Me. S. 2:41

And when there came to them a Book from Allah verifying that which they have, and aforetime they used to pray for victory against those who disbelieve, but when there came to them (Prophet) that which they did not recognize, they disbelieved in him; so Allah's curse is on the unbelievers. S. 2:89 Shakir

And when they were told, 'Believe in that God has sent down,' they said, 'We believe in what was sent down on us'; and they disbelieve in what is beyond that, yet it is the truth confirming what IS with them. Say: 'Why then were you slaying the Prophets of God in former time, if you were believers?' S. 2:91

Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel -- for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which IS before it and guidance and good news for the believers. S. 2:97 Shakir

And when there came to them an Apostle from Allah verifying that which they have, a party of those who were given the Book threw the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they knew nothing. S. 2:101 Shakir

He sent down to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming all previous scriptures, and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel. S. 3:3 Khalifa

And when God took compact with the Prophets: 'That I have given you of Book and Wisdom; then there shall come to you a Messenger confirming what IS with you -- you shall believe in him and you shall help him; do you agree?' He said. 'And do you take My load on you on that condition?' They said, 'We do agree.' God said, 'Bear witness so, and I shall be with you among the witnesses.' S. 3:81

You who have been given the Book, believe in what We have sent down, confirming what IS with you, before We obliterate faces, and turn them upon their backs, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-men, and God's command is done. S. 4:47

And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what IS before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed; S. 5:48 Shakir

And this is a Book We have revealed, blessed, verifying that which IS before it, and that you may warn the metropolis and those around her; and those who believe in the hereafter believe in it, and they attend to their prayers constantly. S. 6:92 Shakir

This Koran could not have been forged apart from God; but it is a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of the Book, wherein is no doubt, from the Lord of all Being. S. 10:37

In their stories is surely a lesson to men possessed of minds; it is not a tale forged, but a confirmation of what IS before it, and a distinguishing of every thing, and a guidance, and a mercy to a people who believe. S. 12:111

And that We have revealed to thee of the Book is the truth, confirming what IS before it; God is aware of and sees His servants. S. 35:31

No indeed; but he brought the truth, and confirmed the Envoys. S. 37:37

Yet before it was the Book of Moses for a model and a mercy; and this is a Book confirming, in Arabic tongue, to warn the evildoers, and good tidings to the good-doers. S. 46:12

They said: O our people! we have listened to a Book revealed after Musa verifying that which IS before it, guiding to the truth and to a right path: S. 46:30 Shakir

Muslim-UK said:

The Dating of the Gospels

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I use Robinson's dates for the New Testament; Robinson's analysis is based on a historical basis.

First I am deliberately leaving the Gospel of John out of my analyses below. Most scholars believe John wrote his Gospel around 80-85AD. The finding of P-52 in Egypt took care of that. John was an eyewitness to the life and teachings of Jesus.


Since the Gospel of John was the last Gospel to be written, this means that Matthew, Mark and Luke were written earlier – all were written in the first century. There are some scholars who believe all 4 Gospels were written prior to 70AD.


The dating of Acts is very helpful in determining the dates of the Synoptics. It is believed Acts was written circa 61-63AD for several reasons.


Keep in mind that Acts is the history of the early church.


1. There is no mention of the fall of Jerusalem or the temple.


2. There is no mention of the death of Paul, circa 64AD.


3. There is no mention of the death of Peter, circa 64-65AD.


4. There is no mention of Nero's persecution of Christians in 64AD.


5. There is no mention of the death of James, Jesus' brother, circa 62AD.


Most reputable scholars date Acts, circa 63AD or slightly earlier, perhaps 61-62AD.


Since Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke prior to Acts, this means that the Gospel of Luke was written earlier than 61-63AD, possibly 55-59AD.


Luke represents eyewitness testimony to the life and teachings of Jesus.


Luke is believed to be the third Gospel written. If so this means that Matthew and Mark were written earlier than 55-59AD.


Most scholars believe that Mark was written first and that Matthew and Luke used Mark as a source. I believe that Matthew was written first, followed by Mark and Luke and I am not alone on this one.


Mark's Gospel is the testimony of Peter who was an eyewitness to Jesus and His teachings.

Muslim-UK said:

Why are you copying and pasting what shamoun has to say, he's been debunked all over the web.

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The quotes are from the Qur'an.

Muslim-UK said:

I have covered what the Qur'an says on the Torah and NT here:
Can you be saved without Christ?

Click to expand...

I haven't read it yet.

Muslim-UK said:

His work is decades old, may he r.i.p. He puts John before 70 A.D and as you perhaps know P52 is now leaning towards the end of the Second Century.

Click to expand...

NEW LIGHT ON THE DATE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT

Muslim-UK said:

But anyway, just address the problem of Mark 1:1 and prove it hasn't been changed and is true to the First Century.

Click to expand...

It's debated as to whether or not it's a later addition.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2463786...n_tab_contents

It's omitted by Origen in the third century, but Irenaeus makes reference to it in the second.

Besides that, it is not needed as I have shown you, even the text of Mark says that Jesus is the Son of God.

Muslim-UK said:

We go by the majority consensus. Given the rough edges to Marks narrative, what evidence have you to say Matthew was first? If Mark was copying from Matthew why would he add errors? Is Mark unreliable? When you say, he was a disciple of Peter, where does it say that in the Gospel?

Click to expand...

NEW LIGHT ON THE DATE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT

habibii zahra said:

not all of the bible is corrupted...we as muslims we should believe in the torah and the bible..the bible was corrupted but not all of it many truths are present in both bible and Quran as well..we believe in the bible same as Christians but we say that somewhere the bible was corrupted...there are many versions of the bible yet there is one unique quran in the whole world

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There are many translations/interpretations of the Qur'an as well.

However, since the Bible we have today is the same as when the Qur'an was written, and the Qur'an confirms that Bible, then the Qur'an confirms what we have today.

But, we know the Qur'an contradicts the Bible that was present at the time the Qur'an was written, so it is the Qur'an that is corrupted.

That is simple logic.

Muslim-UK said:

Why are you copying and pasting what shamoun has to say, he's been debunked all over the web.

I have covered what the Qur'an says on the Torah and NT here:
Can you be saved without Christ?

His work is decades old, may he r.i.p. He puts John before 70 A.D and as you perhaps know P52 is now leaning towards the end of the Second Century.

But anyway, just address the problem of Mark 1:1 and prove it hasn't been changed and is true to the First Century.


We go by the majority consensus. Given the rough edges to Marks narrative, what evidence have you to say Matthew was first? If Mark was copying from Matthew why would he add errors? Is Mark unreliable? When you say, he was a disciple of Peter, where does it say that in the Gospel?

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Papias said Mark scribed Peter’s teachings
Bishop Papias of Hierapolis (60-130AD) repeated the testimony of the old presbyters (disciples of the Apostles) who claimed Mark wrote his Gospel in Rome as he scribed the preaching of Peter (Ecclesiastical History Book 2 Chapter 15, Book 3 Chapter 30 and Book 6 Chapter 14). Papias wrote a five volume work entitled, “Interpretation of the Oracles of the Lord”. In this treatise (which no longer exists), he quoted someone he identified as ‘the elder’, (most likely John the elder), a man who held considerable authority in Asia:

“And the elder used to say this, Mark became Peter’s interpreter and wrote accurately all that he remembered, not, indeed, in order, of the things said and done by the Lord. For he had not heard the Lord, nor had followed him, but later on, followed Peter, who used to give teaching as necessity demanded but not making, as it were, an arrangement of the Lord’s oracles, so that Mark did nothing wrong in thus writing down single points as he remembered them. For to one thing he gave attention, to leave out nothing of what he had heard and to make no false statements in them.”

Irenaeus said Mark wrote his Gospel from Peter’s teaching
In his book, “Against Heresies” (Book 3 Chapter 1), Irenaeus (130-200AD) also reported Mark penned his Gospel as a scribe for Peter, adding the following detail:

“Matthew composed his gospel among the Hebrews in their own language, while Peter and Paul proclaimed the gospel in Rome and founded the community. After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, handed on his preaching to us in written form”

Justin identified Mark’s Gospel with Peter
Early Christian apologist, Justin Martyr, wrote “Dialogue with Trypho” (approximately 150AD) and included this interesting passage:

“It is said that he [Jesus] changed the name of one of the apostles to Peter; and it is written in his memoirs that he changed the names of others, two brothers, the sons of Zebedee, to Boanerges, which means ‘sons of thunder’….”

Justin, therefore, identified a particular Gospel as the ‘memoir’ of Peter and said this memoir described the sons of Zebedee as the ‘sons of thunder’. Only Mark’s Gospel describes John and James in this way, so it is reasonable to assume that the Gospel of Mark is the memoir of Peter.

Clement said Mark recorded Peter’s Roman preaching
Clement of Alexandria (150-215AD) wrote a book entitled “Hypotyposeis” (Ecclesiastical History Book 2 Chapter 15). In this ancient book, Clement refers to a tradition handed down from the “elders from the beginning”:

“And so great a joy of light shone upon the minds of the hearers of Peter that they were not satisfied with merely a single hearing or with the unwritten teaching of the divine gospel, but with all sorts of entreaties they besought Mark, who was a follower of Peter and whose gospel is extant, to leave behind with them in writing a record of the teaching passed on to them orally; and they did not cease until they had prevailed upon the man and so became responsible for the Scripture for reading in the churches.”

Eusebius also wrote an additional detail (Ecclesiastical History Book 6 Chapter 14) related to Mark’s work with Peter:

“The Gospel according to Mark had this occasion. As Peter had preached the Word publicly at Rome, and declared the Gospel by the Spirit, many who were present requested that Mark, who had followed him for a long time and remembered his sayings, should write them out. And having composed the Gospel he gave it to those who had requested it. When Peter learned of this, he neither directly forbade nor encouraged it.”

Is Mark’s Gospel an Early Memoir of the Apostle Peter? | Cold Case Christianity

habibii zahra said:

this is the verse you have mentioned from the Quran:
O Children of Israel! Remember My Favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfill (your obligations to) My Covenant (with you) so that I fulfill (My Obligations to) your covenant (with Me), and fear none but Me.

41. And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'an), confirming that which is with you, [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], and be not the first to disbelieve therein, and buy not with My Verses [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] a small price (i.e. getting a small gain by selling My Verses), and fear Me and Me Alone. (Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol. I, Page 253).

42. And mix not truth with falsehood, nor conceal the truth [i.e. Muhammad Peace be upon him is Allah's Messenger and his qualities are written in your Scriptures, the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] while you know (the truth) . does that makes the bibl not corrupted ..
moreover, the verse says:
And believe in what I have sent down (this Qur'an), confirming that which is with you, [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)],..
what you have stated is wrong...the Quran was brought confirming the torah and the bible so it cannot be corrupted and the injel and the torah holds the capabity of being corrupted

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There is not a single verse in the Qur'an that says the text of the Bible has been corrupted and I think you know that fact.