Reorganization

the old scribe · May 26, 2017

Poor organization of topics seems to be a problem for forums.

Part of the issue is those posting do not stay on topic – sometimes because there is no specific topic provided for the subject. I am attempting to locate a category to post the topic “How important is bearing fruit?” The unrewarded search motivated this communiqué.

May I suggest categories for “Christian Life”

Some of the sub topics under Edification and others might be moved to the Christian Life category. The reasoning why “Christian Peppers” would be under “Edification” escapes understanding. Maybe prepping is what the saintless do to equip?

Christian Life Biblical Perspectives (Christians only)
Sanctification Lordship
Sanctification Second Blessing Perfection
Sanctification Second Blessing Baptism in the Holy Spirit
In Christ
Heirs with Christ
Perseverance/Security of the Believer
Repentance
Restoration
Obedience
Fruit Bearing
Character and Attitudes

Christian Life Practices (Christians only)
Gifts of the Spirit (moved from Christian Ministries)
Fasting (Moved from Equipping the Saints)
Prayer
Worship and Praise
Music
Devotionals
Witnessing
Teaching
Stewardship Giving
Stewardship Service
Stewardship Time
Life Styles Personal Appearance
Life Styles Dress and Fashion
Life Styles Health and Diet
Life Styles Work, Business, Employment

Christian Life Studies (Christians only)
Quotes on the Christian Life
Book Summaries and recommendations about the Christian Life
On line sites
Bible Study Tools
English Bible Versions (advantages and weaknesses)
Study Bibles (advantages and weaknesses)
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I am bewildered by the choice of theological or doctrinal topics.
The forum has chosen to use a very few theological categories as subject categories but has avoided using the majority and has not organized topics like “Dispensationalism” under both Soteriology and Eschatology.

The forum uses these theological categories according to my skimpy inspection:
Hamartiology - belongs under Anthropology
Eschatology
Paterology - belongs under Divinity
Christology - belongs under Divinity
Pneumatology - belongs under Divinity
Ecclesiology
Soteriology
Sacramentalism – belongs under Ecclesiology
Hagiography

Also the forum seems to use these and maybe some other doctrinal categories as theological categories:
Mariology
Dispensationalism

Could the forum’s theological section be organized under these categories?
It seems all of the more specific theologies or doctrines are within these categories.

Divinity – Divine Nature, Paterology, Christology, Pneumatology
Teleology Creation
Epistemology – Revelation, Inspiration, Illumination, Hermeneutics
Anthropology and Hamartiology
Theodicy
Theonomy
Soteriology
Ecclesiology
Eschatology – Death, End Times, After Life, Judgment
Hagiology
Apologetics

Anthropology and Hamartiology, Soteriology, and Ecclesiology need a number of sub-topics to delineate the subject.

Hope this encourages some ideas among the administration.

Paidiske · May 27, 2017

I think there are some valuable suggestions there. I doubt a wholesale reorganisation is likely, but it doesn't hurt to look at what works well, and what doesn't. In part, forums tend to develop because of particular interest of people participating, which is why they might seem a bit ad hoc to someone looking at them at a given point in that process.

Under your Biblical perspectives section, I think something about community life would be important as well (at the moment it seems to have a very individualistic focus).

I also wonder whether "life practices" might be usefully divided between personal practices and participation in the mission of God/mission of the Church (which is where things like teaching and stewardship might fit). The quest for social justice is also missing.

But it is useful food for thought.

Sam91 · May 27, 2017

I don't know where to post anything. It is very confusing. When I think I got it right, I have it wrong and many people tell me. :scratch:

You seem to have a decent understanding what they mean by the sub forum headings.
:oldthumbsup:

the old scribe · May 27, 2017

Paidiske said:
I think there are some valuable suggestions there. I doubt a wholesale reorganisation is likely, but it doesn't hurt to look at what works well, and what doesn't. In part, forums tend to develop because of particular interest of people participating, which is why they might seem a bit ad hoc to someone looking at them at a given point in that process.

Under your Biblical perspectives section, I think something about community life would be important as well (at the moment it seems to have a very individualistic focus).

I also wonder whether "life practices" might be usefully divided between personal practices and participation in the mission of God/mission of the Church (which is where things like teaching and stewardship might fit). The quest for social justice is also missing.

But it is useful food for thought.

Your reply is very encouraging in that you recognize the need. You are adding some excellent ideas. Too many categories can be just as confusing as too few. Categories ought to be both intuitive and have enough info to be directional. The suggestion you made about "life practices" is spot on for full time professionals, but the layman in the pew must be participating in missions of the Church. In this modern era the week or two long missionary endeavor by laymen practicing their vocational specialty or just being a laborer has changed many layman's spiritual life just because they get to serve. The sacrifice of self interest for the kingdom is spiritually rewarding. The reason I didn't suggest separating missions of the Church is that for me the entire congregation ought to do this.

Community life is essential. I would add it under "Christian Life Practices" because it seems to me "Christian Life Biblical Perspectives" are more about the biblical basis for the Christian Life. Of course, if community is discussed concerning the biblical basis for community then it would go with "Christian Life Biblical Perspectives."

For me the biblical basis for community is almost like pre Vatican II Catholicism about salvation being only in the Church, but my opinion, is that it is not sacramental. Salvation is in Christ who is the head of the body of the Church. To be in Christ requires being in the body of Christ with others of the body. Salvation does not occur in a voluntary, solitary confinement of a secluded monk.

Community under "Christian Life Practices" would be about how the believer conducts himself, fellowships, and serves in the Church. Issues as in submission to authority, attitudes, participation, congeniality, support, humility, teaching, learning, etc.

But the forum can have too many categories, but at this point it needs more definition and options because I continue not to know where to post “How important is bearing fruit?”

Paidiske, you posted "In part, forums tend to develop because of particular interest of people participating, which is why they might seem a bit ad hoc to someone looking at them at a given point in that process." This is so, but I have read a number of new threads from beginning to end and notice they are ad hoc.
All forums develop along the particular interest of members, but a near majority of the member interest has nothing to do with being Christian but is about being right - as in "I know something you don't know!" or "Your interpretation is wrong and mine is right!"

I suspect a more detailed organization might direct members into a more productive endeavor where Calvinists could be Calvinist and Armenians could be Armenian. A category where disputes over biblical interpretations might be advisable with the caveat that interpretation disputes should not be posted in particular threads outside of "disputes over biblical interpretations." Disputing is the meat of the forum for many members. If the organization of the forum could provide the Roman Coliseum for such debating while reserving the rest of the forum for edification, it would border on a miracle. Let us pray about this.

Oh! Yea, there is this. Sister Paidiske, it is probable that the Apostle Paul entrusted sister Phoebe with delivering his Epistle to the Romans to the believers in Rome. We are extremely grateful she completed her commission. The New Covenant, without the sisters, withers to a male sorority. Sister Paidiske, you might find this site interesting.
The Bible and the Bechdel test

Paidiske · May 28, 2017

Now I have to laugh. I'm glad you find that site interesting; it is my blog! I'm curious; how did you come to discover it?

I completely agree that the entire church ought to participate in mission (broadly defined), which is why I thought perhaps the distinction was useful. But it is not a heavy matter either way whether there is a separate forum for it or not.

I think part of the problem with the question "How important is bearing fruit?" is that I'm not sure in what way you mean it.

- Are you asking whether we must bear fruit as evidence of salvation (does it fit in soteriology)?
- Are you asking about how to be more fruitful (does it fit in deeper fellowship or Christian advice)?
- Are you asking about the ethics of fruitfulness (does it belong in Christian philosophy & ethics)?
- Are you asking whether all believers ought to be equally fruitful (does it fit in general theology, as an ecclesiology topic)?
- Are you asking about a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit (does it fit in the Paterology, Christology & Pneumatology forum)?
- Or do you want a perspective which draws on particular church traditions (does it belong in traditional theology)?

And so forth. Actually, now that I look at it, I find it interesting that there's no spirituality forum, which would be how I'd be inclined to answer the question at first blush.

the old scribe · May 28, 2017

Paidiske said:
Now I have to laugh. I'm glad you find that site interesting; it is my blog! I'm curious; how did you come to discover it?

I completely agree that the entire church ought to participate in mission (broadly defined), which is why I thought perhaps the distinction was useful. But it is not a heavy matter either way whether there is a separate forum for it or not.

I think part of the problem with the question "How important is bearing fruit?" is that I'm not sure in what way you mean it.

- Are you asking whether we must bear fruit as evidence of salvation (does it fit in soteriology)?
- Are you asking about how to be more fruitful (does it fit in deeper fellowship or Christian advice)?
- Are you asking about the ethics of fruitfulness (does it belong in Christian philosophy & ethics)?
- Are you asking whether all believers ought to be equally fruitful (does it fit in general theology, as an ecclesiology topic)?
- Are you asking about a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit (does it fit in the Paterology, Christology & Pneumatology forum)?
- Or do you want a perspective which draws on particular church traditions (does it belong in traditional theology)?

And so forth. Actually, now that I look at it, I find it interesting that there's no spirituality forum, which would be how I'd be inclined to answer the question at first blush.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoting Paidiske, “I'm curious; how did you come to discover it?

Reply: Gender issues, particular biblical ones, should be the concern of all believers – from the English version translations to a female Pope. Understanding gender usage in the Bible helps in interpretation because it is part of the background of the text. Gender sensitive versions obscure this background, if not blatantly misleading for the serious lay Bible student. It is important to know the gender perspective or usage of each document as part of the background preparation before interpreting or reading. Accordingly, a search for the Bechdel or Bechdel-Wallace Test for the Bible has been made several times without success.

You are the reason I found your site and the lesson taught by godly men. An effort is made to understand the person posting through the membership I.D. (part of the background information as in what is important for the person to project about themselves). Your membership ID made me consider the Greek word παιδίσκη which renewed my interest in the Bechdel-Wallace Test. A new search found your site. It is a marvelous insight and tool for understanding the perspective of a biblical text. It deserves a chapter in every book on biblical hermeneutics.

Because I was raised in a congregation and often went to listen to divinely guided preachers, I have heard many sermons on the women of the Bible. If the primary backgrounds for the scriptures start with the middle east, the Jew, and Judaism, then the perspective of women must be only reduced to secondary importance rather than some periphery issue. Women are more than half of the lost in the world, and the gospel presentation must be as free as possible of my own bias.
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Quoting Paidiske, “I think part of the problem with the question "How important is bearing fruit?" is that I'm not sure in what way you mean it.”

Reply: All your questions suggesting the problem with my question applies. I had not thought of “Are you asking about the ethics of fruitfulness (does it belong in Christian philosophy & ethics)?” nor “How to be more fruitful.” It does not seem to me that fruitfulness is an issue of quantity since the person is either in Christ or not in Christ and it is Christ who produces the fruit. Of course, everything belongs in Christian philosophy & ethics. However, since I originally thought of fruit in terms of the Christian Life the thought was about fruit as evidence of sanctification and indirectly of salvation.

I suppose, fruit used as a metaphor is used more than a hundred times in the Bible.

Much of what it means to be “in Christ” is revealed in these “fruit” passages.

Significant ideas are those of the parable of the wicked vine-growers loosing the Kingdom of God; the analogies of the branches abiding in the vine; the good tree; and the characteristics of fruit in Galatians, etc.

About my question, "How important is bearing fruit?" The agenda is to encourage forum members to search the fruit passages so as to focus on the inseparable condition of being Christian and producing spiritual fruit – the character and attitudes of being in Christ. It seems the posts made by some vines and trees are bare - should I say fruitless?

Quoting Paidiske, "Actually, now that I look at it, I find it interesting that there's no spirituality forum, which would be how I'd be inclined to answer the question at first blush."

Reply: First blush inclinations will do!

Paidiske · May 28, 2017

If the agenda is to encourage members to search Scriptural passages, then maybe put it in Christian Scriptures for now?

Thank you for the praise of my blog; I'm not sure it deserves it, but I'm glad that someone finds it useful!

Brent W · May 28, 2017

Reorganizing the forum is something that has been on the to do list since we purchased Christian Forums over two years ago. It isn't an easy process with a site this large. We have made improvements over time and, specifically, over the last month I have gone through and done a bit of cleaning up and some minor reorganizing.

You will notice now, at least, that each forum in each section is alphabetical order now. This is something that was a huge improvement for me and allowed me to easily find a forum I was looking for compared to before.

I am going to tag @DarylFawcett and @FreeinChrist so that they can come in here and read your post. I want to make this a priority before we upgrade to the latest version of our software. Can you work with @the old scribe and any others here to come up with needed changes? If you come up with a final reorganization plan and provide me with a document detailing the changes, I will spend the time making it happen.

FreeinChrist · May 28, 2017

Thanks for tagging me!

I will be happy to discuss this.

FreeinChrist · May 28, 2017

Regarding this:

Could the forum’s theological section be organized under these categories?
It seems all of the more specific theologies or doctrines are within these categories.

Divinity – Divine Nature, Paterology, Christology, Pneumatology
Teleology Creation
Epistemology – Revelation, Inspiration, Illumination, Hermeneutics
Anthropology and Hamartiology
Theodicy
Theonomy
Soteriology
Ecclesiology
Eschatology – Death, End Times, After Life, Judgment
Hagiology
Apologetics

Did you click on General Theology and see all the subforums there?

mark kennedy · May 28, 2017

the old scribe said:
Poor organization of topics seems to be a problem for forums.

Part of the issue is those posting do not stay on topic – sometimes because there is no specific topic provided for the subject. I am attempting to locate a category to post the topic “How important is bearing fruit?” The unrewarded search motivated this communiqué.

May I suggest categories for “Christian Life”

Some of the sub topics under Edification and others might be moved to the Christian Life category. The reasoning why “Christian Peppers” would be under “Edification” escapes understanding. Maybe prepping is what the saintless do to equip?

Christian Life Biblical Perspectives (Christians only)
Sanctification Lordship
Sanctification Second Blessing Perfection
Sanctification Second Blessing Baptism in the Holy Spirit
In Christ
Heirs with Christ
Perseverance/Security of the Believer
Repentance
Restoration
Obedience
Fruit Bearing
Character and Attitudes

Christian Life Practices (Christians only)
Gifts of the Spirit (moved from Christian Ministries)
Fasting (Moved from Equipping the Saints)
Prayer
Worship and Praise
Music
Devotionals
Witnessing
Teaching
Stewardship Giving
Stewardship Service
Stewardship Time
Life Styles Personal Appearance
Life Styles Dress and Fashion
Life Styles Health and Diet
Life Styles Work, Business, Employment

Christian Life Studies (Christians only)
Quotes on the Christian Life
Book Summaries and recommendations about the Christian Life
On line sites
Bible Study Tools
English Bible Versions (advantages and weaknesses)
Study Bibles (advantages and weaknesses)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am bewildered by the choice of theological or doctrinal topics.
The forum has chosen to use a very few theological categories as subject categories but has avoided using the majority and has not organized topics like “Dispensationalism” under both Soteriology and Eschatology.

The forum uses these theological categories according to my skimpy inspection:
Hamartiology - belongs under Anthropology
Eschatology
Paterology - belongs under Divinity
Christology - belongs under Divinity
Pneumatology - belongs under Divinity
Ecclesiology
Soteriology
Sacramentalism – belongs under Ecclesiology
Hagiography

Also the forum seems to use these and maybe some other doctrinal categories as theological categories:
Mariology
Dispensationalism

Could the forum’s theological section be organized under these categories?
It seems all of the more specific theologies or doctrines are within these categories.

Divinity – Divine Nature, Paterology, Christology, Pneumatology
Teleology Creation
Epistemology – Revelation, Inspiration, Illumination, Hermeneutics
Anthropology and Hamartiology
Theodicy
Theonomy
Soteriology
Ecclesiology
Eschatology – Death, End Times, After Life, Judgment
Hagiology
Apologetics

Anthropology and Hamartiology, Soteriology, and Ecclesiology need a number of sub-topics to delineate the subject.

Hope this encourages some ideas among the administration.

I'd love it if there were better forums for Bible study, just wonder if there would be much interest. I would certainly support and encourage a Bible Study Tools forum.

Paidiske · May 28, 2017

Thanks, Brent, much appreciated. (I had noticed the alphabetisation; suddenly things weren't where they used to be!)

Let me give it some thought, and I'll be back later with some concrete suggestions.

Paidiske · May 28, 2017

A couple of thoughts (I may have more later):

One thing that's been commented on to me is that there's nowhere for non-Christians to just hang out, build relationships and be sociable. They have no "home." I know there's the Fruitcake Cafe in Christianity and World religions, but I wonder if that could be moved to sit under faith groups or a new forum (The Melting Pot?) created to help these folks feel more welcome.

I think, on review, the section I find most unhelpful at the moment is Equipping the Saints.

It currently has:

Christian Ministries
Children and Youth Ministry
Full & Part Time Ministry
Ministry Spouses
Mission, Evangelism & Witnessing
Spiritual Gifts
Worship Ministry

Edification
Christian Advice
Christian Clubs
Christian Persecution
Christian Preppers
Daily Devotionals
Deeper Fellowship
Fasting
For New Christians
Praise & Worship Music

I'm not sure how helpful some of the current categories are, and I think there are several things missing. I might suggest doing this with it:

Christian Ministries:
Children and Youth Ministry (make a sub forum of Congregational Ministry)
Congregational Ministry
Chaplaincy
Ministry Students (a place to share with and encourage one another)
Outreach work/Evangelism
Preaching (a place for bouncing around ideas, sharing, seeking feedback, etc; could be a sub-forum of Worship or of Congregational Ministry)
Welfare Work/Social Justice Ministries
Worship (with a sub-forum for Liturgy, which has nowhere currently, and move Praise and Worship Music here as a subforum also)

Also something I don't have a good name for, for those in or associated with or interested in religious orders/consecrated life (monks, nuns, oblates, etc); we have several such people who are active members and might encourage more if we recognise their particular contribution.

Edification
Christian Preppers
Daily Devotionals
Deeper Fellowship
Living in Community (making the most of being part of the church)
Prayer & Spirituality (not asking for prayer, more sharing how and why we pray, meditate etc; Fasting could become a sub-forum of this)
Spiritual Gifts & Service

I'm assuming Bible studies could go into the Scripture forum, but there could be space for that here too, if we wanted it.

- Move Christian Advice to Prayer & Encouragement
- Move Christian Clubs to Faith Groups
- Move Christian Persecution to Prayer & Encouragement
- Move For New Christians to Prayer & Encouragement

How does that strike others?

Dave-W · May 31, 2017

Brent W said:
You will notice now, at least, that each forum in each section is alphabetical order now. This is something that was a huge improvement for me and allowed me to easily find a forum I was looking for compared to before.

I noticed.

And now I have to re-learn the position of each of the subfolders I frequent ....

Dave-W · May 31, 2017

Paidiske said:
How does that strike others?

Makes sense to me.

teresa · May 31, 2017

@Brent W

Dear Brent

I appreciate all that you do for us here at Christian Forums.

I love the alphabetization and know that you worked hard to make things easier to follow and find.

All of your efforts took time and energy and lots of hours of problem-solving, and I am grateful for that.

teresa · May 31, 2017

Paidiske said:
Welfare Work/Social Justice Ministries

That would be an amazingly helpful subforum to have. I work in food ministry and would love to both share ideas and tips as well as help anyone looking for resources.

I meet people on the street asking me for food, clothing, jobs and money.

You have some great ideas, Paidiski, thank you!

mnorian · May 31, 2017

Paidiske said:
Christian Ministries:
Children and Youth Ministry (make a sub forum of Congregational Ministry)
Congregational Ministry
Chaplaincy
Ministry Students (a place to share with and encourage one another)
Outreach work/Evangelism
Preaching (a place for bouncing around ideas, sharing, seeking feedback, etc; could be a sub-forum of Worship or of Congregational Ministry)
Welfare Work/Social Justice Ministries
Worship (with a sub-forum for Liturgy, which has nowhere currently, and move Praise and Worship Music here as a subforum also)

As one of the staff that helped set-up Praise and Worship Music; I don't think putting it in a sub-forum would work; one of the things we wanted for P&W Music; was for it to be seen on the main forum list.

teresa · May 31, 2017

mnorian said:
As one of the staff that helped set-up Praise and Worship Music; I don't think putting it in a sub-forum would work; one of the things we wanted for P&W Music; was for it to be seen on the main forum list.

that would be cool mnorian

A whole forum just for music.

I've also noticed that some member are musicians too

there could be all kinds of topics there!

:oldthumbsup:

mnorian · May 31, 2017

u2spicy said:
that would be cool mnorian

A whole forum just for music.

I've also noticed that some member are musicians too

there could be all kinds of topics there!

Well we already have it made Spicy; I thought I seen you on some of our threads before; it's right here:
Praise and Worship Music

Reorganization

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