" Substitutionary Atonement "...What is it ??

bling · May 4, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
Post #9 "I see no Scripture supporting it (SUBSTITUTION)

Focus on the word "FOR"...in place of...on your behalf.

Substitution = e.g. "hyper" / ...Jesus died FOR you...in your place

2 Corinthians 5:21,
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin "on our behalf", that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him." (Imputed Righteousness!)

Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once FOR all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

1 Peter 3:18 -
"For Christ also died FOR sins once FOR all,
the righteous (Jesus) FOR the unrighteous (Man),
that he might bring us to God" (reconciliation)

1 Peter 2 (NASB)
21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered FOR you,
leaving you an example FOR you to follow in His steps,
22 (Jesus who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;
23 and while being reviled, He did not revile in return;
while suffering, He uttered no threats,
but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross,
so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness;
FOR by His wounds you were healed.
25 For you were continually straying like sheep,
but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

I will try to get to everything you wrote but let’s start with “for”.

Where in scripture (other than the way you are interpreting Christ atonement sacrifice) is “for” translated “in place of”?

The Penal Substitution theory is read into the frequent Scriptural statements that Christ died "for" us. Many Christians read the words "for us" and mentally add "as our substitute" or “instead of”. Though that is one of the possible meanings of the preposition "for," however, we must remember that the preposition can be used in more than one way and “instead of” = for never has to be translated that way.

So it is with the Greek prepositions. There are many Greek words in this context which we translate with the English word "for." They include peri (which means "about" or "concerning"), dia ("because of" or "on account of"), and by far the most common, huper ("for," "on behalf of," or "for the sake of").

None of these prepositions necessarily invokes the meaning "in the place of." Hence the exact relationship between Christ's death and our salvation is not so clearly conveyed in any of these verses. That Jesus died "on account of" us and our sins is clear, but the Greek words translated "for" do not of themselves spell out a doctrine of Atonement.

Prepositions in any language tend to be fluid. Like the English word "for," the Greek words translated "for" can bear more than one meaning and could have changed over time. Hence they could imply substitution. My point is that the prepositions neither make nor break the case for Satisfaction/Penal Substitution. Would you agree it is unwise to build any doctrine solely on the meaning of a preposition.

That having been said, there is a fourth preposition translated "for" in these verses which does usually imply substitution. That word is anti and it normally means "in place of," though it can take on the meaning of huper also. The term is used solely in Matthew 20:28 and Mark 10:45, verses. There Jesus' death is described as being an actual ransom payment (and not like a ransom payment), so a word normally implying (in exchange) would be natural. However, it is telling that every other verse teaching that Jesus died "for" us leans toward more ambiguous terms.

Halbhh · May 4, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
Whew! Was that too much?

yes, for me at the moment, certainly.

I am just at the point of simply knowing what Paul wrote in Romans chapter 3, and aware of the difference in translation of the crucial verse 25 in YLT vs some other translations, but I don't feel I have to know more. I did get it finally that the many references to God *not* wanting sacrifices, several times in the OT, and even quoted by Christ (no less) could be in part about the insincerity, where they simply sacrificed and just cynically kept sinning. (I mean I no longer presume simply that God flatly never wanted sacrifices, ever. It might not be quite like that. I can only say flatly He wanted us to show mercy to one another *more*. I can't state any certainty myself about sacrifices themselves, currently.)

Hmmmm..... you know..... "cynically kept sinning" can *very easily* happen today in our churches, after we preach the grace doctrine.....

I think preaching the grace doctrine *must* include for instance the full pieces.

Like if one used Ephesians 2:8-9, then one *must* include verse 10!

If one used something in Romans chapter 3, one *must* include verse 31.

etc.

faroukfarouk · May 4, 2017

Halbhh said:
yes, for me at the moment, certainly.

I am just at the point of simply knowing what Paul wrote in Romans chapter 3, and aware of the difference in translation of the crucial verse 25 in YLT vs some other translations, but I don't feel I have to know more. I did get it finally that the many references to God *not* wanting sacrifices, several times in the OT, and even quoted by Christ (no less) could be in part about the insincerity, where they simply sacrificed and just cynically kept sinning. (I mean I no longer presume simply that God flatly never wanted sacrifices, ever. It might not be quite like that. I can only say flatly He wanted us to show mercy to one another *more*. I can't state any certainty myself about sacrifices themselves, currently.)

Hmmmm..... you know..... "cynically kept sinning" can *very easily* happen today in our churches, after we preach the grace doctrine.....

I think preaching the grace doctrine *must* include for instance the full pieces.

Like if one used Ephesians 2:8-9, then one *must* include verse 10!

If one used something in Romans chapter 3, one *must* include verse 31.

etc.

Hebrews chapters 9 and 10 speak of the one finished sacrifice in which God is well pleased, without addition or deletion.

Halbhh · May 4, 2017

faroukfarouk said:
Hebrews chapters 9 and 10 speak of the one finished sacrifice in which God is well pleased, without addition or deletion.

I've recently started to become confident that in reading Paul, even if it takes chapters, he will eventually bring it all together, so I clicked those chapters open with confidence, and here it is --

"26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."
Hebrews 10

It's just like the other epistles. It's not 'grace and done'.

Halbhh · May 4, 2017

You know, it's actually far more radical than I expected, even.

"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left..."

Ouch!

But, I know we are able to confess and repent. The key is that wording "keep on"

faroukfarouk · May 4, 2017

Halbhh said:
I've recently started to become confident that in reading Paul, even if it takes chapters, he will eventually bring it all together, so I clicked those chapters open with confidence, and here it is --

"26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."
Hebrews 10

It's just like the other epistles. It's not 'grace and done'.

Well actually it's all by grace (Ephesians 1.6) and when people so habitually stray - as your quote refers - to the extent that they are not relying at all on the one finished sacrifice received entirely by grace, then questions remain as to whether the one finished sacrifice has ever truly been received by grace thorough faith, whatever might be professed. This is how I see it.

Halbhh · May 4, 2017

faroukfarouk said:
Well actually it's all by grace (Ephesians 1.6) and when people so habitually stray - as your quote refers - to the extent that they are not relying at all on the one finished sacrifice received entirely by grace, then questions remain as to whether the one finished sacrifice has ever truly been received by grace thorough faith, whatever might be professed. This is how I see it.

I bet we agree. We are saved only by grace, through faith, alone. But "For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." and "faith without works is dead" (shown dead or at least asleep, not adequate).

faroukfarouk · May 4, 2017

Halbhh said:
I bet we agree. We are saved only by grace, through faith, alone. But "For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." and "faith without works is dead" (shown non existent).

Yes, I would certainly agree with what you say there.

Ron Gurley · May 4, 2017

Post#21: RE: "FOR"

Great job on the very hard job of sifting through the multiple / varied meanings of tiny Mr. "FOR".

All I can say is:
1.context,context, context
2. let Scripture intepret Scripture
3. Spirit, Spirit, Spirit,...the superintendant/inspirer

IMO I am close to the truth, many true Bible scholars are there with me.

For those who want to WORK, here is "homework":

For

http://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/for.html

Huper

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/huper.html

Behalf

http://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/behalf.html

Anti

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/anti.html

Dia

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/dia.html

Eis

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/eis.html

Zeo

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/zeo.html

Doma

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/doma-2.html

Epei

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/epei.html

=============
"Penal Substitution" theory...Whazzat?...no one got "punished! Jesus VOLUNTARILY died FOR YOU!

Halbhh · May 4, 2017

faroukfarouk said:
Well actually it's all by grace (Ephesians 1.6) and when people so habitually stray - as your quote refers - to the extent that they are not relying at all on the one finished sacrifice received entirely by grace, then questions remain as to whether the one finished sacrifice has ever truly been received by grace thorough faith, whatever might be professed. This is how I see it.

Yes, makes sense, but....then, what is the point of the wording in the epistles to the effect: do A, B, C, D, repeated in all the epistles? I mean not what else to do, but, ok other side, why would they often write in epistles 'don't do R, S, T, U, V...'?

I have taken it that there is a certain amount of choice involved, even if "the one finished sacrifice has ... been received by grace thorough faith". It's like we have to know some things. Faith rescues us, leads us to repentance, and thus cleans us. But....we then subsequently have to know some things and do some things, by choice.

faroukfarouk · May 4, 2017

Halbhh said:
Yes, makes sense, but....then, what is the point of the wording in the epistles to the effect: do A, B, C, D, repeated in all the epistles? I mean not what else to do, but, ok other side, why would they often write in epistles 'don't do R, S, T, U, V...'?

I have taken it that there is a certain amount of choice involved, even if "the one finished sacrifice has ... been received by grace thorough faith". It's like we have to know some things. Faith rescues us, leads us to repentance, and thus cleans us. But....we then subsequently have to know some things and do some things, by choice.

Romans 14 speaks of Christian liberty. Ephesians 2 - especially the beginning part - speaks of what the will of man is like - choices, preferences - before he is enlightened and changed by grace.

Halbhh · May 4, 2017

faroukfarouk said:
Romans 14 speaks of Christian liberty. Ephesians 2 - especially the beginning part - speaks of what the will of man is like - choices, preferences - before he is enlightened and changed by grace.

I'll be reading them.

And, for you, Galatians 5 and 6 then. In chapter 5 we have that wonderful bringing it all together regarding what we have talked about here, starting in verse 13 and continuing into chapter 6.

faroukfarouk · May 4, 2017

Halbhh said:
I'll be reading them.

And, for you, Galatians 5 and 6 then.

Great chapters!

Yes, the whole circumcision argument and linked trusting in lawkeeping can be used sometimes to 'prove' opposites, even. Some ppl say it's the same as infant baptism (which I don't happen to agree with); others - separately may try to 'prove' that e.g., certain dress codes, tattoos, etc., are good/bad because of a circumcision-type argument one way or the other.

It's really good to read various passages, sometimes repeatedly, and compare them with other passages.

Near · May 4, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
Focus on the word "FOR"...in place of...on your behalf.

Substitution = e.g. "hyper" / ...Jesus died FOR you...in your place

2 Corinthians 5:21,
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin "on our behalf", that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him." (Imputed Righteousness!)

As I said, there isn't anywhere in the bible that states the Jesus died in anyone's place as a substitution for punishment. It says he died for us, not instead of us.

Secondly, 2 Cor 5:21 doesn't meaning Jesus taking God's wrath upon himself in our place. It mentions him being a sin offering on our behalf, and becoming righteous in Christ. I don't really see why you said, "imputed righteousness" though. Nothing about him taking a punishment in our place though.

St_Worm2 · May 4, 2017

Near said:
It says he died for us, not instead of us.

Hi Near, I'm not seeing the essential difference in the two that you apparently are :scratch:

, so let me ask you this then, why did Jesus have to die "for" us?

Isaiah 53
5 He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
6 All of us like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all
To fall on Him.

Romans 5
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Hebrews 9:22
Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.

1 Peter 2
24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

Yours in Christ,
David

mkgal1 · May 4, 2017

St_Worm2 said:
Hi Near, I'm not seeing the essential difference in the two that you apparently are , so let me ask you this then, why did Jesus have to die "for" us?

I know this wasn't directed towards me (and I'm certainly not speaking for Near)....but we all view the text through certain "filters"---and when you're framing things from the Substitutionary Atonement theory standpoint....you do draw conclusions based on that.

If you can somehow turn that around and think of it with the theory in mind that Jesus died on the cross in order to draw us to Him.....for us to be "satisfied" that there was a "price paid" because that's what our minds feel is just....then maybe you can see that "for us" can also just mean "for our benefit".

"It's your kindness that brings me to repentance"~ Romans 2:4

If you look at many cultures.....the practice of some sort of sacrifice to "please gods" is very common. I believe God was just using what makes sense to our intellect in order to demonstrate to us that He is the one that first reaches out in love to us (not the other way around).

St_Worm2 · May 4, 2017

mkgal1 said:
I know this wasn't directed towards me (and I'm certainly not speaking for Near)....but we all view the text through certain "filters"---and when you're framing things from the Substitutionary Atonement theory....you do draw conclusions based on that.

Hi mkgal1, the thing is, I'm not looking through the "filter" of a presupposition and trying to force the Bible to 'fit' my presupposition. In the case of the doctrine of "Substitutionary Atonement", I'm agreeing with it because, just like I agree with our Creeds, it teaches/expresses/encapsulates/summarizes what the Bible says about the Atonement.

My understanding of the Atonement came from the Bible long before I'd heard the term, "Substitutionary Atonement", and it still does today

You continue:

mkgal1 said:
If you can somehow turn that around and think of it with the theory in mind that Jesus died on the cross in order to draw us to Him.....for us to be "satisfied" that there was a "price paid" because that's what our minds feel is just....then maybe you can see that "for us" can also just mean "for our benefit".

Such a belief is nothing more than another, repackaged attempt at saying, "we can save ourselves by our own goodness/we don't need a Savior". This is absolutely NOT what the Bible teaches us from Genesis through Revelation!! Rather, it tells us that we absolutely need a Savior, not simply a "guide". This belief of yours (though hardly "new") is anti-Christian, anti-Church .. and anti-Christ, since it dismisses Him as our Savior.

Your belief also makes the Father out to be a monster, since it says that God sent His Son here to die that horrible death on the Cross when it wasn't necessary for Him to do so. Again, the Bible teaches that Christ is, by necessity, our "Savior", not just a "guide", and the Bible could not be clearer about what that means.

Fr. Richard Rohr asks us to look at the Bible with "new eyes", but the only way to see what 'he' does in the Scriptures is to look at the Bible through the eyes of a false prophet, which is exactly what he is!

For your own sake mkgal1, please reconsider what the church teaches/has taught now for more than 2,000 years concerning the necessity of both the Incarnation and the Cross, because the one whose teachings you are choosing to follow instead is, at best, BADLY mistaken :preach:

Richard Rohr's teachings are not some form of "Alternative Orthodoxy", as he likes to call them, rather, they are "Anti-Orthodoxy"!!*

Yours in Christ,
David

"Without the shedding of blood,
there is no forgiveness"
Hebrews 9:22

*(Rohr's teachings are nothing "new", and they are heresies, at best, so if nothing else, please stop teaching them to others)

yeshuaslavejeff · May 4, 2017

disciple1 · May 4, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
" Substitutionary Atonement "...a preamble!

1. The TRI-UNE God created Mankind in THEIR own spritual image.

2. "Natural Man", beginning with A&E, has an innate "sin nature"...
to be disobedient, self / world centered, and with a tendancy to turn from God.

3. God has given Man (and angels) the spiritual gift of "Free Will" to spiritually accept or reject Him
and His gracious provisions for salvation when called / drawn by the Spirit.

4. God is perfectly Loving/Merciful/full of Grace. AND He is also perfectly JUST.
He loves all sinners. AND He hates all sin.

5. Sinful Man on his own cannot work his way to heaven and be acceptable to a perfect sinless God. A sin barrier exists.
Man needs a Savior to act on his behalf to reconcile himself to God

6. Jesus the God-Man had a DUAL NATURE:
True Man: the sinless New Adam.
True Deity: Divinity poured out into a miraculous Body without loss or change of Deity.

7. Jesus the Divine Messiah voluntarily bled to death on a cruel, unjust Cross.
Jesus the God-Man voluntarily substituted Himself FOR all sins FOR all Men FOR all time.
His miraculous birth, ministry, death, resurrection, appearances, and ascension
RECONCILED Man to God. (at-one-ment)

8. The New Covenant: The blood of Jesus covers the sin of man.
We believers are longer under condemnation.
We believers are FORGIVEN of our SINS.

PLEASE DISCUSS (with supporting copy + paste Scripture) Your VIEWS on any or all of the above.

AND NOW: " Substitutionary Atonement "

Substitution = e.g. "hyper" / ...Jesus died FOR you...in your place

2 Corinthians 5:21,
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin "on our behalf",
that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him." (Imputed Righteousness!)

Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once FOR all;
but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

1 Peter 3:18 -
"For Christ also died FOR sins once FOR all,
the righteous (Jesus) FOR the unrighteous (Man),
that he might bring us to God" (reconciliation)

1 Peter 2 (NASB)
21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered FOR you,
leaving you an example FOR you to follow in His steps,
22 (Jesus who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;
23 and while being reviled, He did not revile in return;
while suffering, He uttered no threats,
but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross,
so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness;
FOR by His wounds you were healed.
25 For you were continually straying like sheep,
but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

Atonement = basic meaning of RECONCILIATION....work of redemption on behalf of ...

"Atonement" = at-ONE-ment = spiritual reconciliation and other benefits of salvation...
...some spiritual act that "pays for" / redeems Man from his sin nature / sin / sin(s)
...the penalty due to Man's sins are avoided
...action decreed by God for the re-establishment of a positive relationship
between Man (the sinner) and Himself (the holy God).

The OT is replete with a myriad of ritual laws to cover the sins of Israel.
The word Atonement is used only ONCE in the KJV of the NT.

Romans 5:11 KJV
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by whom we have now received the atonement.

the atonement. ...Greek 2643....katallage....adjustment of a difference, RECONCILIATION, restoration to favour

Romans 5: 6-11 (NASB)
For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died FOR the ungodly.
For one will hardly die for a righteous man;
though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died FOR us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved (sanctified) by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Leviticus 16:34
Now you shall have this as a permanent statute, (Mosaic Law)
to make atonement for the sons of Israel for all their sins once every year.”
And just as the Lord had commanded Moses, so he did.

Hebrews 7:27
who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices,
first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people,
because this He did once FOR all when He offered up Himself.

Hebrews 9:12
and not through the blood of goats and calves, but THROUGH His own blood,
He entered the holy place once FOR all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified
through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once FOR all.

See also: PROPITIATION ...

New Testament Greek:
G2435 hilasterion (he-lä-sta'-re-on) =~ propitiation, "mercy seat"

...“The word propitiation carries the basic idea of appeasement, or satisfaction, specifically towards God.
Propitiation is a two-part act that involves
appeasing the wrath of an offended person and
being reconciled to them.”
Propitiation is that:
“by which it becomes consistent with his character and government to pardon and bless the sinner.
The propitiation does not procure his love or make him loving; (God is ALSO perfectly LOVING and MERCIFUL!)
it only renders it consistent for him to exercise his love towards sinners...

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God,
but that He loved us and
sent His Son to be the propitiation FOR our sins.

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things,
so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make propitiation FOR the sins of the people.

The BLOOD of Jesus:

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus
you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 10:19
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence
to enter the holy place (presence of God) by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 12:24
and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant,
and to the (His) sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead
the great Shepherd of the sheep
through the blood of the eternal covenant,
even Jesus our Lord,

1 Peter 1:2 ...a peek a the TRI-UNE GOD?
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
by the sanctifying work of (God) the (Holy) Spirit,
to obey (God the Son) Jesus Christ
and be sprinkled with His blood:
May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

1 John 1:7
but if we (believers) walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light,
we have fellowship with one another, and
the blood of Jesus His Son CLEANSES (washes away) us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ,
the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers many sins.
But here's more verses to help you be able to do that.
Jesus didn't die, for you to be selfish.
Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Mark chapter 13
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
James chapter 1
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
James chapter 4
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
Jeremiah chapter 9
24 but let the one who boasts boast about this:
that they have the understanding to know me,
that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,
justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,”
declares the Lord.
Jeremiah chapter 5 verse 1
5 “Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem,
look around and consider,
search through her squares.
If you can find but one person
who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
I will forgive this city.

disciple1 · May 4, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
" Substitutionary Atonement "...a preamble!

1. The TRI-UNE God created Mankind in THEIR own spritual image.

2. "Natural Man", beginning with A&E, has an innate "sin nature"...
to be disobedient, self / world centered, and with a tendancy to turn from God.

3. God has given Man (and angels) the spiritual gift of "Free Will" to spiritually accept or reject Him
and His gracious provisions for salvation when called / drawn by the Spirit.

4. God is perfectly Loving/Merciful/full of Grace. AND He is also perfectly JUST.
He loves all sinners. AND He hates all sin.

5. Sinful Man on his own cannot work his way to heaven and be acceptable to a perfect sinless God. A sin barrier exists.
Man needs a Savior to act on his behalf to reconcile himself to God

6. Jesus the God-Man had a DUAL NATURE:
True Man: the sinless New Adam.
True Deity: Divinity poured out into a miraculous Body without loss or change of Deity.

7. Jesus the Divine Messiah voluntarily bled to death on a cruel, unjust Cross.
Jesus the God-Man voluntarily substituted Himself FOR all sins FOR all Men FOR all time.
His miraculous birth, ministry, death, resurrection, appearances, and ascension
RECONCILED Man to God. (at-one-ment)

8. The New Covenant: The blood of Jesus covers the sin of man.
We believers are longer under condemnation.
We believers are FORGIVEN of our SINS.

PLEASE DISCUSS (with supporting copy + paste Scripture) Your VIEWS on any or all of the above.

AND NOW: " Substitutionary Atonement "

Substitution = e.g. "hyper" / ...Jesus died FOR you...in your place

2 Corinthians 5:21,
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin "on our behalf",
that we might become the righteousness of God IN Him." (Imputed Righteousness!)

Romans 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once FOR all;
but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

1 Peter 3:18 -
"For Christ also died FOR sins once FOR all,
the righteous (Jesus) FOR the unrighteous (Man),
that he might bring us to God" (reconciliation)

1 Peter 2 (NASB)
21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered FOR you,
leaving you an example FOR you to follow in His steps,
22 (Jesus who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;
23 and while being reviled, He did not revile in return;
while suffering, He uttered no threats,
but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross,
so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness;
FOR by His wounds you were healed.
25 For you were continually straying like sheep,
but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

Atonement = basic meaning of RECONCILIATION....work of redemption on behalf of ...

"Atonement" = at-ONE-ment = spiritual reconciliation and other benefits of salvation...
...some spiritual act that "pays for" / redeems Man from his sin nature / sin / sin(s)
...the penalty due to Man's sins are avoided
...action decreed by God for the re-establishment of a positive relationship
between Man (the sinner) and Himself (the holy God).

The OT is replete with a myriad of ritual laws to cover the sins of Israel.
The word Atonement is used only ONCE in the KJV of the NT.

Romans 5:11 KJV
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by whom we have now received the atonement.

the atonement. ...Greek 2643....katallage....adjustment of a difference, RECONCILIATION, restoration to favour

Romans 5: 6-11 (NASB)
For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died FOR the ungodly.
For one will hardly die for a righteous man;
though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died FOR us.Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved (sanctified) by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

Leviticus 16:34
Now you shall have this as a permanent statute, (Mosaic Law)
to make atonement for the sons of Israel for all their sins once every year.”
And just as the Lord had commanded Moses, so he did.

Hebrews 7:27
who does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices,
first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people,
because this He did once FOR all when He offered up Himself.

Hebrews 9:12
and not through the blood of goats and calves, but THROUGH His own blood,
He entered the holy place once FOR all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified
through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once FOR all.

See also: PROPITIATION ...

New Testament Greek:
G2435 hilasterion (he-lä-sta'-re-on) =~ propitiation, "mercy seat"

...“The word propitiation carries the basic idea of appeasement, or satisfaction, specifically towards God.
Propitiation is a two-part act that involves
appeasing the wrath of an offended person and
being reconciled to them.”
Propitiation is that:
“by which it becomes consistent with his character and government to pardon and bless the sinner.
The propitiation does not procure his love or make him loving; (God is ALSO perfectly LOVING and MERCIFUL!)
it only renders it consistent for him to exercise his love towards sinners...

1 John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God,
but that He loved us and
sent His Son to be the propitiation FOR our sins.

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things,
so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God,
to make propitiation FOR the sins of the people.

The BLOOD of Jesus:

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus
you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 10:19
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence
to enter the holy place (presence of God) by the blood of Jesus,

Hebrews 12:24
and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant,
and to the (His) sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead
the great Shepherd of the sheep
through the blood of the eternal covenant,
even Jesus our Lord,

1 Peter 1:2 ...a peek a the TRI-UNE GOD?
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,
by the sanctifying work of (God) the (Holy) Spirit,
to obey (God the Son) Jesus Christ
and be sprinkled with His blood:
May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

1 John 1:7
but if we (believers) walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light,
we have fellowship with one another, and
the blood of Jesus His Son CLEANSES (washes away) us from all sin.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ,
the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood—

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers many sins.
But here's more verses to help you be able to do that.
Jesus didn't die, for you to be selfish.
Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Mark chapter 13
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
James chapter 1
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
James chapter 4
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
Jeremiah chapter 9
24 but let the one who boasts boast about this:
that they have the understanding to know me,
that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,
justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,”
declares the Lord.
Jeremiah chapter 5 verse 1
5 “Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem,
look around and consider,
search through her squares.
If you can find but one person
who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
I will forgive this city.

" Substitutionary Atonement "...What is it ??

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