What right do pastors have to comment on your personal finances?

BlackZeppelin said:

That's never it. There's always questions and dilemmas. I will eventually replace my cracked screen 3 yr old Samsung Galaxy phone with another. I could instead save $1000 and and go back to a cheap flip phone.

There's always something we could go cheap on to give more money away. Whether it be our house, car, phone etc.

The debate is endless and never settled.

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Unlike some others here, all that I'm saying is that I don't think the Lord is so much concerned with what you buy for yourself as long as you are putting your time, talent and treasure to HIS purposes first. Understand what I'm saying? For instance, maybe you want to buy a $40,000 vehicle. Fine. Just make sure that you are substantially giving some financial support to important and/or worthy ministries before buying that $40,000 vehicle.

This isn't a major issue.

RDKirk said:

Then one would have equal difficulty with 1 Corinthians 8, in which on one hand Paul affirms that mature Christians are free to eat meat sacrificed to idols, then on the other hand cautions them not to exercise that freedom if it would cause harm to the faith of another.

That's what Paul is doing with regard to the financing of his ministry--he has the right to take payment from the congregations he has founded, but his does not exercise that right because his taking money from them could be used to harm their faith.

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What Paul is saying in 1 Corinthians 8 and in 9 are two totally different subjects with two completely different spiritual truths.

Paul is not saying is ok to eat meat to idols btw if you know better.

Paul was not financing his ministry. Paul was working to provide for himself and even others. He was not building finance to make flyers and have events....your argument is really falling apart.

2PhiloVoid said:

Unlike some others here, all that I'm saying is that I don't think the Lord is so much concerned with what you buy for yourself as long as you are putting your time, talent and treasure to HIS purposes first. Understand what I'm saying? For instance, maybe you want to buy a $40,000 vehicle. Fine. Just make sure that you are substantially giving some financial support to important and/or worthy ministries before buying that $40,000 vehicle.

This isn't a major issue.

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The Lord told me, "I want you to be at the head of a blessing chain, not at the tail."

RDKirk said:

The Lord told me, "I want you to be at the head of a blessing chain, not at the tail."

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I'm not even sure what a 'blessing chain' is, RD, let alone what being at the 'head' of such a thing would amount to. It sounds promising, though!

2PhiloVoid said:

I'm not even sure what a 'blessing chain' is, RD, let alone what being at the 'head' of such a thing would amount to. It sounds promising, though!

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That was a Saturday afternoon while I was dusting pews in and pondering Luke 12.

The Lord provides for our daily needs. If we are lavishly provided with much more than that, it's as stewards who have an obligation to deliver that excess to the Lord's other servants. So we who have plenty are at the head of a chain of delivery--a conduit of blessing--that should flow downward. This goes along with 2 Corinthians 8: My abundance is intended to cover someone else's lack.

RDKirk said:

That was a Saturday afternoon while I was dusting pews in and pondering Luke 12.

The Lord provides for our daily needs. If we are lavishly provided with much more than that, it's as stewards who have an obligation to deliver that excess to the Lord's other servants. So we who have plenty are at the head of a chain of delivery--a conduit of blessing--that should flow downward. This goes along with 2 Corinthians 8: My abundance is intended to cover someone else's lack.

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That's definitely a good point for me (and the rest of us) to think about prayerfully, RDKirk! Thanks for sharing that.

Your scriptural studies are lacking if you think owning a $45k NOT worldly. Here are two passages that might help you understand.....

1 Timothy 6:9-15King James Version (KJV)
9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

And.....

Matthew 19:21-26King James Version (KJV)
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

We are to seek those treasures from above that do NOT rust, decay or diminish; seeking NOT the treasures and/or worldly riches that perish and decay such as luxuries that we do NOT need, like expensive automobiles. Your so called pastors approach is one that is of admonishment as he is trying to set an example that a vehicle of lesser value was ideal and $25-30k of that $45k could of been allocated to those in need....homeless, ill and informed, church tithing, etc.

I often reflect on this fact as i have seen many a parishioners attending mass in a caddy, a suburban, a range rover or other various model where in i bought a used focus and prior to that had been driving a used pontiac for better part of a decade with over 200k on the odom.. "You have to ask yourself why you find it necessary to drive an unnecessary vehicle when a solid used cheaper model will do just fine?"

Our representation of adoration should be towards GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST...not on idol or those things we idolize of this world. Idolatry separates us from GOD...We are to love GOD and have no others GODS.

Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>

Don't sell yourself short. It's $50.90 per week. But to be fair, I think a lot of people would see a $220 monthly bill for 17 years as a lot! And of course if you financed the vehicle then you did end up paying more than 45k for it.

Two things

1) If a person is upset that you bought a $45K car to the point of anger they esteem money greater than the Lord and do not recognize it for what it is. Money is a tool to buy things.
2) Spending is relative to the buyer. Billionaires can spend $45K in the blink of an eye. The average person in America owns more material goods than entire villages, etc... in other places. To people in third world countries the average American is to a third world person as a billionaire is to a the average American. Why I said that is for the lunatics out there that judge a person for how they spend their money.

The only question worth asking in this thread is whether the OP tithes or not. How you spend the remaining 90% of cash God gave you is between you and God.

In my opinion, the only times a pastor has a right to comment on your personal finances are either:
You've expressly asked him a financial question or if he's genuinely worried about you.
I do not think that a snide comment from him is appropriate.

@BlackZeppelin Also wanted to mention that at times if there was someone I cared about I would make snide comments on how I would want to change their behavior hoping to hurt them so that they would change. In retrospect I dont think that was right, but it does express the persons desire to see something in you. Whether their intentions are right or not I think all of us are aware of the bondage of material goods and the burden of financial debt and these feelings can easily come out when people talk about money. I hate debt. When I see someone talking about how they want to spend a bunch of money I would feel sorry for them only because I know how the burden of debt feels. Maybe I would get angry too and try to change their behavior. Again, probably not the right thing to do, but I am just saying this as an attempt for you to be sympathetic to other peoples view of spending money.

Hey, I was honest earlier and said I drove a Lexus RC F.... I'm not judging you champ.

How much do you tithe OP?

There is a serious problem with financial transparency and church leadership in general, but if you attend a church where you don't trust the pastor with your tithe then you are at the wrong church.
That said. What about Malachi 3:10 & Proverbs 3:10 ? You don't want that blessing?

BlackZeppelin said:

So why don't we cut to the chase? So many of you are quoting the words of Paul. Paul was very strong and direct in dealing with all the churches he was overseer on. And he was a big fan of expulsions and shunning.

So why don't we follow his model if you so strongly believe and quote him? Everyone in any church with expensive homes, multiple homes, unnecessary business interests, expensive cars etc should depart the church and come back when they have sold all their excess and live in modest homes and drive modest cars and work a basic job.

Again, this is what Paul would have done. Let's not go halfway here, let's go the whole nine years and follow Paul completely.

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The problem with your logic is that there were wealthy people in the early church. A LOT of them. For example, Job - "a righteous man" was extremely wealthy. David - wealthy. Solomon - wealthy.

Just google "wealthy people in the bible". There were many in the NT also.
The problem isn't money. It is people's hearts. God wants you to take care of the poor. To honor him with what he has given you. If your desire is to live big rather than honor God, then repent. Mine is that way a lot. I repent a lot.