If You Don't Celebrate Christmas, Why Not?

Aryeh

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I do not think you need to even be a Christian to celebrate Christmas because it can be seen as a day to remember perhaps the most influential hippie philosopher in the Western world.

Christmas is a worldly holiday. As you said, it is a time for people to remember the greatest hippie - not necessarily an issue of the birth, or emergence of the Son of God come to save humanity. In other words, it is a soft "holy day."

There is seemingly no incentive for an atheist to celebrate Passover (I didn't say Easter.) There is seemingly no incentive for non Hebrews to celebrate the day of atonement.

Yet, there is plenty of worldly incentive for all people to celebrate a holiday that is supposed to be about the birth of the Christ.

Because it isn't a "holy day" it is a "holiday."
 
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jamespyles

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okay -
we are fine with that
-but-
are you fine with us celebrating it?
I had hoped I'd made it clear in a previous comment that I'm totally fine with believers celebrating Christmas as a Church tradition. This isn't a matter of me judging others. I just was curious if anyone besides me didn't celebrate the holiday and why.

My parents celebrate Christmas as does my extended family on my Mother's side who are Christians.
 
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jamespyles

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I can't say for certain that it is real but I know a lot of people that take it seriously and look forward to it. The scary part is that given some newsclips and research we aren't that far off from it and when you think that what the public has is about 45 years behind what the military has it's a plausible concept
I know there's a lot of medical interest in making people live longer, but that's usually achieved through better nutrition and exercise. I'm 62 years old and regularly hit the gym doing strength training and cardio. My wife makes sure I eat healthy (most of the time) and my parents are in their 80s, so hopefully I've got long-living genes.
 
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Steven Wood

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I can appreciate your choice on this. I do acknowledge that it is not prescribed to Israel as a feast day, but I do believe that this should be celebrated at all times. This appreciation and celebration is even shown in Scripture. Personally (and we can agree to disagree :)), I don't think the time of year of His birth is a problem. My Tradition also views this as sort of the Winter Pascha...the preparation for our Pascha (equivalent of Passover...the original name for Easter, based on our Paschal Lamb). We have Pascha at the beginning of Spring, the Pentecost, and then The Nativity. It helps focus us all year long, along with periods of fasting and preparation. We could discuss the feast days prescribed in the Old Testament, though perhaps our view is different than some. We have different feast days that tend to correspond to the feast days in the Old Testament, which we consider to be the "fulfilled" feast days. If you are interested in talking more about this, I'd be happy to do so to exchange ideas.
That would be great. I appreciate your thoughts of using this time as a reflection of how would should always be. I have no qualms with celebrating at any time IF you truly understand where that certain time and the practices derived from. If someone just celebrates blindly, believing something that people have said it tends to lead that person astray without them even realizing it. And honestly in these times of unlimited information, ignorance is not an excuse.
 
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Episaw

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Hi again James,

We happily celebrate Christmas. Not because it was Jesus' exact birthday necessarily, but because it is the chosen day (corporately) to celebrate His birth. I'd be more than happy to celebrate any day of the year. And I agree that pagan origins are not consequential; what matters is the heart of giving and thanksgiving.

But beyond that, it's just a good day to get together with family and give gifts to each other, or play some games together, or just eat a good meal. It's especially fun for the kids... Presents!!!! :)

Precisely...presents! Christmas is no longer a christian celebration. It is a celebration to mammon! and you can't serve both God and mammon.

No christian can say they are not bothered about the details of Christmas, they will use it to celebrate this, that and the other and not serve mammon unless the money is spent on gifts for kids overseas who have nothing, not even clean drinking water.

There are plenty of ministries out their who are saying don't spend your money on useless presents that are discarded a few weeks after they are given. Use you money to give a life giving gift to a child in need that will be appreciated 365 days a year.
 
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Steven Wood

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I know there's a lot of medical interest in making people live longer, but that's usually achieved through better nutrition and exercise. I'm 62 years old and regularly hit the gym doing strength training and cardio. My wife makes sure I eat healthy (most of the time) and my parents are in their 80s, so hopefully I've got long-living genes.
I hope you do. I have something my doctor referred to as the athletes genetics. I have always done extensive manual labor likened to an athlete exploding out of the gate but like them my body couldn't handle the force I was making it do so I'm 38 and completely ruined my back and a few other parts lol. I should've listened to my elders when they said I'd regret my actions when I was older. Yes most dr. just use healthy living for longevity but there are the scientists that are doing things like building memory banks for the best of the best working towards a way to transfer them to super computers and synthetic bodies as to one day develop artificial consciousness. and computers and synthetic bodies don't decay like carbon based does. When I first heard of this it reminded me of revelation where it says that people will pray for death and it will not come.
 
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jamespyles

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Precisely...presents! Christmas is no longer a christian celebration. It is a celebration to mammon! and you can't serve both God and mammon.

No christian can say they are not bothered about the details of Christmas, they will use it to celebrate this, that and the other and not serve mammon unless the money is spent on gifts for kids overseas who have nothing, not even clean drinking water.

There are plenty of ministries out their who are saying don't spend your money on useless presents that are discarded a few weeks after they are given. Use you money to give a life giving gift to a child in need that will be appreciated 365 days a year.
It would be a wonderful Christmas tradition to take all the money spent on presents, particularly those exchanged between adults, and to spend it on the poor.
 
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Episaw

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A lot of the things we hear about the christmas trappings are in themselves 'hear-say" .. of course we know he was not born dec25 .. but every weekend a baby's birthday is celebrated not being the actual day . i think we can let traditions rule other traditions and get buried in them until we are sour at the mouth .. i think that we should take what we have, or do .. and sanctify it unto the lord ....and do it UNTO THE LORD JESUS.
-like this -...if i buy meat from a market and i don't know its "pagan origin" or if it was sacrificed to idols .. i take it and i give thanks to God for it and it is sanctified unto him now .. and i cook eat and enjoy.
Just so, we don't know (not really ) the origins of so very many mingled little traditions .. So if i have a tree,i sanctify it to the lord to remember him who suffered the truth that "cursed is he that hangeth on a tree "- i put a star on it to remember the star that led the magi to JESUS its ALL ABOUT JESUS .. i give gifts to remember that God GAVE his only begotten son and i CELEBRATE JESUS .. we have this liberty to take what god has created and use it to his Glory and glory in Christ alone . i will not be ruled by men's traditions nor men's oppositions to traditions but by the Holy Spirit in the freedom he has afforded us through His own shed blood .ITS ALL ABOUT JESUS ! . if its not all about Jesus for you .. then Repent , be baptized for the remission of your sin and receive the promised holy Spirit and Live .

sometimes we impose religious froth . In all my life i have never celebrated anything but Jesus at this time of year.. the trapping only became :pagan " when "MAN" told me they were .. and more info now says a lot of those so called pagan origins don't match up with historic fact . (means they are possibly based on religious ferver only )so back and forth it goes -to what end ? Jesus is not glorified in either argument . and there is no scriptural basis for the basics of it . if we cast out everything that can be related backwards by fact or rumor to paganism we simply become slaves to what ever religious mindset blowing around in trends. and if we apply the standard to "one celebration" and not everything, then we are being hypocritical . after all meeting on a Sunday is related back to worship of "the sun" ..hence SUN-day . But i don't see many opposing doing so . (personally i don't gather on a Sunday because i believe in gathering every day of the week at some point where believers are available to do so .) SO .. whatever wrongful reason and motives and styles "OTHERS" do it for .does not govern the freedom I have to see Jesus in EVERY aspect of my life and honor him in it as i abide IN him and He IN me . and walk in obedience to the holy Spirit . i have heard So very many arguments over this topic over 30 years i myself have argued BOTH Sides of it . but when i reflect i realized -Never has the holy Spirit brought any conviction to my heart on the mater . an we are to walk in the spirit . It would be very different if i was practicing something overtly sinful like the idolatry of Mary -or the most common sin "Christians" (so called) commit of carnality in the practice of Gluttony without a second thought about the nature of that action . there are far worse things then celebrating Jesus with decorative Joy .

in short - it is not the trappings BUT THE HEART MOTIVE AND FOCUS that makes a "thing" good or bad . In scripture, in one place they made raisin sweet cakes dedicated to "the queen of heaven " and god called it detestable .. -another time earlier raisin cakes were handed out by the thousands at the celebration of bringing the "ark of the covenant into the city _ (i think it was ).. .. so are raisin cakes pagan .. NO they are raisin cakes they have no mind nor will . it is what our own heart attributes to "A THING".. which sanctifies it unto the lord Jesus or unto something else . -Celebrate JESUS ONLY for his sake and HIS name to HIS GLORY.
Try using paragraphs as it is is easier to read.
 
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jamespyles

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I hope you do. I have something my doctor referred to as the athletes genetics. I have always done extensive manual labor likened to an athlete exploding out of the gate but like them my body couldn't handle the force I was making it do so I'm 38 and completely ruined my back and a few other parts lol.
I'm sorry to hear that, Steven. My wife is always worried about my lifting heavy barbells and hopefully I'm not letting my male ego get in the way. I pray for your health and well being.
 
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All4Christ

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That would be great. I appreciate your thoughts of using this time as a reflection of how would should always be. I have no qualms with celebrating at any time IF you truly understand where that certain time and the practices derived from. If someone just celebrates blindly, believing something that people have said it tends to lead that person astray without them even realizing it. And honestly in these times of unlimited information, ignorance is not an excuse.

I have to head back to work (trying to finish up some things while people are still in the office), so I need to be short with this post (practically everyone is off from tomorrow to the end of the year!).

Certainly knowing where it came from is important to know, and I would be perfectly fine if we had decided to celebrate it another time. The early church (around 2nd century) celebrated Jesus' baptism on January 6th, and originally recognized Christ's birth on that day, though it wasn't necessarily thought to be the exact day of His birth. Many Orthodox Christians still celebrate it on January 6th. It is important to understand the origin of our feast days, and to remember that the focus needs to be on Christ. :)

I didn't grow up in the Orthodox Church, but I truly appreciate the thought that goes into helping us grow closer to God throughout the entire year.

Where would you like to discuss the part about our view on the fulfilled feast days that are prescribed in the Bible? If you start a thread, tag me, or I can start a thread somewhere. On the other hand, we could start a conversation instead of a thread if that'd be easier. Just let me know. :)
 
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Episaw

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I do not think you need to even be a Christian to celebrate Christmas because it can be seen as a day to remember perhaps the most influential hippie philosopher in the Western world.

Sorry but my Jesus was not a hippy philosopher. He was the life giving son of God.
 
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Episaw

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For me, it's partly to do with it not being his actual day of birth, coupled with the fact that we were not commanded to observe it.

The biggest grievances I have with the holiday are two fold... the name signifies a death sacrifice (mass of Christ) that I find disturbing. The other is how the children are negatively indoctrinated with santa claus to believe in a demi god, only to find out later that it was a lie. What do you suppose that does when the child then begins to learn about God? Maybe another mythical fairy tale? After all this God has the same description as as the last bogus diety....

We taught our children that Santa Claus was a fairy story. It never bothered them.
 
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Steven Wood

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okay -
we are fine with that
-but-
are you fine with us celebrating it?
I'll say what I'm not fine with. People celebrating it for a completely different reason than what it is and those people misinforming others to do the same thing. I think if a person wants to celebrate Christmas it's their prerogative and more power to them but transferring customs and traditions of multiple religions and saying that they're something else does not make them true. That means the originators of the falsehood are causing the ones who partake to continue the lie and pass it on to the masses. I used to be upset as a Christian when people started taking Christ out and spelling it xmas, now I'm not bothered but find it fitting. Celebrate if you will but hold it in no higher regard than thanksgiving or arbor day.
 
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Episaw

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The example that we have in the Bible is not one where God said to repurpose pagan altars and assimilate pagan traditions, but rather God said to tear down pagan altars and to not worship Him in the same way that the pagans worshipped their gods (Deuteronomy 12:4, Deuteronomy 12:31).

So it was not just the Israelites worshipping pagan gods that God found detestable, but also the way that pagans worshipped their gods.

God gave specific instructions for how the temple to be built and I think that He would have been displeased if the builders had decided that they could build it in whatever way they wanted because all God really wanted was just a temple.

Our goal is to demonstrate our love for God and our faith in Him about how we should live, so we should seek to worship God according to His instructions rather than having the attitude that we can worship God in whatever way we want and He should be happy with what He gets.

This is not to say that man-made traditions for worshiping God are bad, but that we should be careful to not to set aside the commands of God in order to establish our own traditions. As such, it is far more important to keep the holy days that God commanded to be kept than to be concerned with whether or not we should observe a man-made tradition.

So I don't see anything wrong with the man-made tradition of celebrating Messiah's birth, though I did it on Sukkot, but without Santa, Christmas trees, wreaths, and mistletoe, though I did sing Christmas carols about his birth.

Paragraphs PLEASE !!!!
 
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