Torah-lovers only - Bible Study

Truthfrees · Nov 13, 2016

Shalom Kulam,

I'm starting an in-depth chapter by chapter Bible study to prove Paul is Pro-Torah, and his abundant Pro-Torah verses have been ignored or misunderstood.

We'll start with the Book of Romans, taking approximately 1 week per chapter, to allow everyone a chance to post their thoughts and insights.

Anyone who loves Torah may post in this thread.

Debating against Torah observance is not allowed in this thread or the MJ forum, but is allowed here: http://www.christianforums.com/forums/sabbath-and-the-law.1131/

I will post several questions for each chapter to help reveal Paul's Pro-Torah teachings.

Feel free to answer any or all questions as an aid to sharing your thoughts and insights.

Shavua Tov!

Truthfrees · Nov 13, 2016

INDEX - CHAPTER LINKS and Discussion Links

Romans 1 - http://www.christianforums.com/threads/torah-lovers-only-bible-study.7976090/#post-70404816

Romans 2

Romans 3

Romans 4

Romans 5

Romans 6

Romans 7

Romans 8

Romans 9

Romans 10

Romans 11

Romans 12

Romans 13

Romans 14

Romans 15

Romans 16

Truthfrees · Nov 13, 2016

ROMANS CHAPTER 1

Please slowly/carefully/prayerfully read Romans 1 and then try to answer these questions.

Q&A: In Your Opinion:

א-1. Which verses in this chapter reveal Paul's motive for writing this letter to the Romans? What is his motive?

ב-2. Which verses in Romans Chapter 1 are promoting obedience to Torah?

ג-3. Which verses indicate who Paul is talking to in this chapter? Who is he talking to?

ד-4. Which words are most repeated in this chapter? Are these words also found in Torah and TNK?

ה-5. Who are the ungodly unrighteous ones? What are they doing that causes Paul to label them this way?

ו-6. What happens to these ungodly unrighteous ones? Do they know they are doing wrong? Are they aware of what will happen to them?

ז-7. What is the difference between the Gospel of God 1, and the Gospel of His Son 9, Gospel of Christ 16 ?

ח-8. Where in Scripture did the Prophets promise this Gospel of God? What does "Gospel" mean?

ת-9. What does Paul say is the proof that Yeshua is the Son of God? Did anyone before or since Yeshua do these things? Are these things prophesied in TNK?

י-10. What are your favorites scripture truths from Romans 1? Is there anything you find interesting in Romans Chapter 1?

יא-11. Is there anything new in Romans 1 that is not found somewhere in Torah and TNK?

יב-12. What is a saint? Who is called a saint? Why are they called saints?

יג-13. What faith is Paul talking about? When did this faith start? Who started this faith?

יד-14. Is there anything in TNK about the Godhead? Where?

NOTE: Answers will be edited into this post at the end of the week for easy reference.

Soyeong · Nov 13, 2016

We have gone through a verse-by-verse study of Romans and Galatians, which you might find beneficial:

http://rabbiyeshua.com/resources/epistles/romans-v-1

http://rabbiyeshua.com/resources/epistles/romans-v-2

http://rabbiyeshua.com/resources/epistles/galatians

Steve Petersen · Nov 13, 2016

A Torah-lovers Only thread that jumps right into Paul?

Really?

Truthfrees · Nov 13, 2016

Steve Petersen said:
A Torah-lovers Only thread that jumps right into Paul?

Really?

Amen!

Yeshua's and Paul's Pro-Torah words have been ignored and misunderstood for far too long.

It's time to correct this misunderstanding.

Romans is the best place to start, as it is one the most misunderstood books, with what erroneously appears to be the most anti-Torah statements.

Steve Petersen · Nov 13, 2016

Truthfrees said:
Amen!

Yeshua's and Paul's Pro-Torah words have been ignored and misunderstood for far too long.

It's time to correct this misunderstanding.

Romans is the best place to start, as it is one the most misunderstood books, with what erroneously appears to be the most anti-Torah statements.

Well, I expect you won't get much participation from mainstream Jews on this thread even though they love the Torah too.

Truthfrees · Nov 13, 2016

Steve Petersen said:
Well, I expect you won't get much participation from mainstream Jews on this thread even though they love the Torah too.

Although mainstream Jews might be the perfect ones to recognize the Pro-Torah commands in the NT - the same commands Christians think are new non-Torah commands.

Soyeong · Nov 13, 2016

Steve Petersen said:
Well, I expect you won't get much participation from mainstream Jews on this thread even though they love the Torah too.

One of the biggest reasons that Jews reject Jesus as their Messiah is that Christians have taught that he did away with the law, which according to Deuteronomy 13 would make him a false prophet. Paul is the biggest reason why many many Christians believe that Jesus did away with the law, so it seems to me that he would be a good place to start and a good place to find common ground.

visionary · Nov 13, 2016

A good foundation as to what is Torah and why is it the foundation upon which to build Yeshua's faith, Paul's understanding, and the apostles life along with the rest of the Jews.

Truthfrees · Nov 18, 2016

I'll start answering the questions, and anyone else who wants to give it a try, go ahead.

I know we all have some excellent insights into why we know Paul is really pro-Torah.

Truthfrees said:
Q&A: In Your Opinion:

א-1. Which verses in this chapter reveal Paul's motive for writing this letter to the Romans? What is his motive?

Romans 1:16-17
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith."

IMO, Paul's reason for writing the letter to the Romans is to fully and exhaustively explain the power of the Gospel, which mostly is the Righteousness of God apart from works of the flesh.

As we progress through Romans we will see that ALL is done by faith from first to last.

And even more than that Paul wants us to use God's ability. He lays out his reasons why our ability is insufficient to accomplish all this.

Some of the TNK quotes for Romans 1:16-17 are: Psalms 40:9, Habakkuk 2:4, Psalms 71:15-16, Psalms 72:1, Psalms 5:8, Psalms 32:2, Genesis 15:6.

He also makes it clear that all this is first to the Jew and then the Gentile. More info later on the significance of this oft repeated phrase.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 18, 2016

Same as Y'SHUA'S MOTIVE in being born a man, (this is ETERNAL ELOHIM ADONAI!!!!!!!!!!!) humbling HIMSELF to be born on earth, a man !!!!!!!!!!
living on earth as a man, being rejected by His Own people,
being arrested, beaten, stoned, whipped, crowned with thorns, a bloody mess,
then crucified. All WILLINGLY,
being totally
OBEDIENT TO THE FATHER.

Truthfrees said:
What is his motive?

Likewise, Paul was called and chosen and immersed in Y'SHUA'S NAME and willingly obeyed ABBA YHWH in all things, every day, all day and all night,
even to his (Paul's) death, after also many beatings and arrests and sufferings at the hands of evil men.

Steve Petersen · Nov 18, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Same as Y'SHUA'S MOTIVE in being born a man, (this is ETERNAL ELOHIM ADONAI!!!!!!!!!!!) humbling HIMSELF to be born on earth, a man !!!!!!!!!!
living on earth as a man, being rejected by His Own people,
being arrested, beaten, stoned, whipped, crowned with thorns, a bloody mess,
then crucified. All WILLINGLY,
being totally
OBEDIENT TO THE FATHER.

Likewise, Paul was called and chosen and immersed in Y'SHUA'S NAME and willingly obeyed ABBA YHWH in all things, every day, all day and all night,
even to his (Paul's) death, after also many beatings and arrests and sufferings at the hands of evil men.

Mark Nanos, the Mystery of Romans covers the historical context of Romans and puts Paul's letter in perspective.

Tiberius had forced all the Jews out of Rome. Gentile believers were left there without Jewish influence for a couple of decades, in which time they rose to power in local assemblies then got arrogant against the Jewish people.

This sets the table for Romans and these elements can be found in Paul's address to those in Rome.

Truthfrees · Nov 18, 2016

Truthfrees said:
ב-2. Which verses in Romans Chapter 1 are promoting obedience to Torah?

A. Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

Ungodliness, unrighteousness, sin is made known/revealed by Torah. Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7

Torah is truth: Psalms 119:142

Paul is condemning the same things Torah condemns.

He is not promoting Torah-lessness/lawlessness. He is promoting doing as Torah says at least as far as morality is concerned.

This is also a quote of Psalms 19:1-6, Jeremiah 10:14

Same thing here:
B. Romans 1:22-32
22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Direct quotes of Torah: Deuteronomy 4:16-18, Leviticus 18:22, Isaiah 44:20, Jeremiah 10:14, Hosea 7:3

Truthfrees · Nov 18, 2016

Truthfrees said:
ג-3. Which verses indicate who Paul is talking to in this chapter? Who is he talking to?

Romans 1:13
Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles.

I find it very interesting that Paul is talking to Gentiles about Torah.

We've been told Paul doesn't teach Torah to or for Gentiles, yet here he is writing a letter to the Roman Gentiles about the dangers of ignoring God's Torah. At least the moral instructions of Torah.

IOW, the book of Romans is the basic teachings of how to live out the GOSPEL, and Paul is promoting Torah.

Is he using Jewish Torah language? No. He's simplifying the language for those who know no Torah.

But Paul's teachings are clearly PRO-Torah simplified paraphrases of Torah and the Prophets.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 18, 2016

When TORAH is not taught and /or not lived what happens ? >>>
Matthew 24:12 - Bible Gateway
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Matthew 24:12
and many people's love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah. CEV. Evil will spread and cause many people to stop loving others.

yeshuaslavejeff · Nov 18, 2016

YHWH accomplished HIS WILL in me, as in the disciples,
when Y'SHUA "Then opened HE (Y'SHUA) their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"
HE receives ALL the praise and glory !
HE reveals SALVATION TO INFANTS and HIDES SALVATION from scholars.

Steve Petersen said:
Cool. You know some Hebrew words.

visionary · Nov 18, 2016

AbbaLove · Nov 20, 2016

Truthfrees said:
Do you have anything to post about Romans 1?

Romans 1:11-12
11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

Definitely PRO-TORAH Of YHWH~LORD

pinacled · Nov 22, 2016

Abstinence
"Not all understanding of course, that the fornication of joining themselves to other bodies other than His, WAS strangling them (choking the life of His Spirit right out of them) with their blood still in them from refusing to lay down their life for Him and His body." Peace;

Acts 15:19-22 "Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they
abstain from pollutions of idols,
and from fornication,
and from things strangled,
and from blood.
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren."

Acts 15:21 "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

And in the Torah you will find out just what Paul has wrote about in considering these 4 simple ordinances.

1 Corinthians 11King James Version (KJV)
11 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

2 Corinthians 11King James Version (KJV)
11 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.

2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Sowing seed or weighing spirits

Therefore, behold I will allure her and lead her into the desert, and I will speak comfortingly to her heart. טזלָכֵן הִנֵּה אָנֹכִי מְפַתֶּיהָ וְהֹלַכְתִּיהָ הַמִּדְבָּר וְדִבַּרְתִּי עַל לִבָּהּ:

17And I will give her her vineyards from there and the depth of trouble for a door of hope, and she shall dwell there as in the days of her youth, and as the day of her ascent from the land of Egypt. יזוְנָתַתִּי לָהּ אֶת כְּרָמֶיהָ מִשָּׁם וְאֶת עֵמֶק עָכוֹר לְפֶתַח תִּקְוָה וְעָנְתָה שָּׁמָּה כִּימֵי נְעוּרֶיהָ וּכְיוֹם עֲלוֹתָהּ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרָיִם:

18And it shall come to pass on that day, says the Lord, you shall call [Me] Ishi, and you shall no longer call Me Baali. יחוְהָיָה בַיּוֹם הַהוּא נְאֻם יְהֹוָה תִּקְרְאִי אִישִׁי וְלֹא תִקְרְאִי לִי עוֹד בַּעֲלִי:
19And I will remove the names of the baalim from her mouth, and they shall no longer be mentioned by their name. יטוַהֲסִרֹתִי אֶת שְׁמוֹת הַבְּעָלִים מִפִּיהָ וְלֹא יִזָּכְרוּ עוֹד בִּשְׁמָם:
20And I will make a covenant for them on that day with the beasts of the field and with the fowl of the sky and the creeping things of the earth; and the bow, the sword, and war I will break off the earth, and I will let them lie down safely. כוְכָרַתִּי לָהֶם בְּרִית בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא עִם חַיַּת הַשָּׂדֶה וְעִם עוֹף הַשָּׁמַיִם וְרֶמֶשׂ הָאֲדָמָה וְקֶשֶׁת וְחֶרֶב וּמִלְחָמָה אֶשְׁבּוֹר מִן הָאָרֶץ וְהִשְׁכַּבְתִּים לָבֶטַח:
21And I will betroth you to Me forever, and I will betroth you to Me with righteousness and with justice and with loving-kindness and with mercy. כאוְאֵרַשְׂתִּיךְ לִי לְעוֹלָם וְאֵרַשְׂתִּיךְ לִי בְּצֶדֶק וּבְמִשְׁפָּט וּבְחֶסֶד וּבְרַחֲמִים:

22And I will betroth you to Me with faith, and you shall know the Lord. כבוְאֵרַשְׂתִּיךְ לִי בֶּאֱמוּנָה וְיָדַעַתְּ אֶת יְהֹוָה:
23And it shall come to pass on that day, [that] I will answer, says the Lord; I will answer the heavens, and they shall answer the earth. כגוְהָיָה | בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא אֶעֱנֶה נְאֻם יְהֹוָה אֶעֱנֶה אֶת הַשָּׁמָיִם וְהֵם יַעֲנוּ אֶת הָאָרֶץ:
24And the earth shall answer the corn and the wine and the oil, and they shall answer Jezreel. כדוְהָאָרֶץ תַּעֲנֶה אֶת הַדָּגָן וְאֶת הַתִּירוֹשׁ וְאֶת הַיִּצְהָר וְהֵם יַעֲנוּ אֶת יִזְרְעֶאל:
25And I will sow her for Me in the land, and I will have compassion upon the unpitied one, and I will say to them that are not My people, "You are My people," and they shall say, "[You are] my God." כהוּזְרַעְתִּיהָ לִּי בָּאָרֶץ וְרִחַמְתִּי אֶת לֹא רֻחָמָה וְאָמַרְתִּי לְלֹא עַמִּי עַמִּי אַתָּה וְהוּא יֹאמַר אֱלֹהָי:

For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

9 For what thanks can we render to God again for you, for all the joy wherewith we joy for your sakes before our God;

10 Night and day praying exceedingly that we might see your face, and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?

11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.

12 And the Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men, even as we do toward you:

13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Torah-lovers only - Bible Study

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