Cruel spouse

Victoria113 · Oct 16, 2016

I have just joined this forum although I have lurked here in the past. I specifically joined to get some help with this issue. I am a member of a pregnancy/parenting forum which has an area for marriage advice but having seen that the advice given to virtually every petty issue is "divorce, now" I wanted to get the help of fellow Christians. I should mention that I throughly believe that divorce should only be reserved for the most extreme situations and will not personally consider it. Aside from the moral aspect divorce would be a terrible outcome for myself and my children, taking them from a intact, middle class home with a SAHM to a likely impoverished, single parent household to spend much of their childhoods in daycare and being shuttled between parents (I was raised in a broken home and swore it would never be that way for my children). We currently have 2 very small children and I am pregnant with our 3rd.

If it were simply a matter of being unhappy or unfulfilled I would have no problem. Many people remain in unfulfilling marriages and make the most of it. But my husband is cruel and extremely controlling. I would like to outline some of this as I've never told anyone, he considers his behavior to be just fine and puts on a great face in public. No one has any idea.

He has never struck me. I would not consider him physically abusive but he does this thing where he takes his hand and grabs my face, digging his nails into the flesh and squeezing as hard as he can and then shouting in my face. He has done this whilst I was holding our newborn.

He does things to me sexually that are against my will. I do not wish to get into it as I find it humiliating. He believes it is his right as a Christian husband and my job is to submit. If I have a problem with it, it is just because I am refusing to submit and obey. I am aware that this is not correct. I DO have a duty to submit but he has a duty to love and cherish which he is not fulfilling by hurting me in this way.

I am not allowed to drive or take the bus. I have no access to our bank accounts, my name is not on the title of our home. He will not allow me to be added to these things.

He does not like it when I speak to my mother and wants me to cut ties with her as she is a "bad influence".

By far the most hurtful and damaging is the way he speaks to me. He will criticize virtually everything I do. He pulls me down constantly telling me I am a terrible mother, I'm stupid, I'm worthless (lower than s*** is something he often says). He calls me terrible names at least a few times per week.

He has screamed at me and called me names throughout both of my labours with my children. He mocked me for thinking a had "some kind of special bond" with our newborn calling it "f***ing pathetic"... that one still feels like a knife to the heart when I remember it.

I don't know what to do. Divorce is not an option, he is a good father... he is just unable to be anything but cruel to me. How can I find happiness in this situation and try to enjoy my life? I pray every night that God will change his heart or make me a better wife so I don't set him off so much but it really hurts my self esteem and I feel like joy has been sucked from me.

Paidiske · Oct 16, 2016

What you have described is a deeply abusive situation.

I respect what you've said about not wanting to divorce, but I do think things need to change. I'm guessing he would never go to marriage counselling? Have you had counselling just for yourself?

Are you willing to consider a separation, while you work through the things which need to change? I don't consider your situation safe, not for you or your children. Growing up watching this kind of abuse will also have an impact on them.

pdudgeon · Oct 16, 2016

Paidiske said:
What you have described is a deeply abusive situation.

I respect what you've said about not wanting to divorce, but I do think things need to change. I'm guessing he would never go to marriage counselling? Have you had counselling just for yourself?

Are you willing to consider a separation, while you work through the things which need to change? I don't consider your situation safe, not for you or your children. Growing up watching this kind of abuse will also have an impact on them.

i very much agree with all the above.
this is not normal behaviour for men, but i'd be willing to bet this behaviour is what your husband grew up witnessing. and i'd also bet that your inlaws never said a word about it.

What you need to do here is to pack an emergency bag for yourself and the kids, and find a safe place that you can go to when he is not at home.
then the next time that he attacks you physically and leaves marks, call the police right then at 911 and file a complaint against him.

It may be that having him arrested for assault and battery is your only option to stop this, because what he is doing is now against the law.

brinny · Oct 16, 2016

A "good" father?

When he abuses you in such a manner while holding your newborn, he IS abusing and traumatizing your children.

Poppyseed78 · Oct 16, 2016

I'm so sorry you're experiencing that. Your husband's behavior is 100% inexcusable and wrong. I was in an abusive relationship for 5 years, and he called me names like "brain-dead retard" daily. I know how painful it is, and how much it feels like a knife through the heart every single time. I can only imagine how much worse it would be with children involved.

Having divorced parents is not the worst thing that can happen to children. Watching your mother get abused, daily, by your father is worse. Your kids can be happy growing up in a smaller home with fewer material possessions, rather than living in a bigger house filled with misery.

This man will not change. People don't change unless they want to change. Counseling won't fix the situation, but I'm sure he would refuse anyway. Praying that God grants you the strength to endure the abuse doesn't shield the kids from it. There is a high chance he will eventually turn his contempt and wrath on the kids. I hope he doesn't, but why wouldn't he? He is already violent and dangerous toward you.

His attempts to isolate you, cutting you off from transportation and money, and the overall abuse are very alarming. I urge you to confide in someone. Do you go to church? Can you talk to your pastor? What about your mom? If you call a domestic violence hotline, they would help you. The violence could escalate. I agree with a poster above me who suggested packing a bag and making a plan if you and the kids need to leave fast. I also suggest making copies of documents (when he isn't around).

Honestly, I would divorce in your situation. Some people say divorce is always wrong and a sin, but I am not one of them. There is no need for you and your children to suffer. Your husband is breaking his marriage vows daily with how he treats you. Also, everyone is a sinner, and has and will sin. It is God's grace that grants us salvation. Divorcing will not jeopardize your salvation. Instead, it will offer both you and your kids hope for a safe and stable future. You and they are precious children of God, and you deserve so much better.

Hotinco · Oct 16, 2016

I am sorry you have to deal with this, this is not "being a good husband or father" The example he sets for the children should not be of one who abuses his wife.

I understand you not wanting a divorce but something has to change. Many many times this types escalate over time and become more aggressive. I am not saying he will but statics show it is a high probability.

Two things you mentioned which are very wrong
Him grabbing you and squeezing so hard his nail dig into your skin - out and out abuse - This need to be addressed professionally and he need to understand a loving husband would never do this. - You can also report this to the police and in most areas, they would arrest him for physical abuse

Also, him forcing you to do sexual thing you don't want to. That is rape, does not matter if you are married he can not force himself on you. If you were in our marriage group we would immediately advise Professional counseling for him and you along with marital counseling.

God commands you to submit to a Godly husbands leadership, not his abuse. You are not to be a slave to your husband but an equal with him as the spiritual leader of the home.

This is all correctable with professional help and a willing heart. If he refuses to seek professional help I would advise you take a more drastic measure t protect yourself and your children. He needs to understand you are a person and his wife, and you should be treated as a queen, not a possession

Daryl Gleason · Oct 16, 2016

Dear sister, welcome to you, and grace and peace to you as well from our Father and our lord Jesus Christ. I thank you for having the courage to post here.

I must say that I also agree with those who responded before me that this is truly an abusive situation, that it cannot be allowed to continue, and that it will inevitably have effects on the little ones if it does.

For a man to think even for a second that such behavior is acceptable, especially with the one he promised to love and cherish for the rest of his life, indicates a deep-rooted psychological issue and possibly a spiritual issue as well. These can be exceptionally difficult to heal, particularly if he doesn't see the need or want to be helped.

My first suggestion is to ask for God's wisdom as in James 1:5; it is a free gift available in any situation, and it can help you to understand what God would have you do and give you peace.

The situation need not necessarily come to divorce if you are able to take action that will "put the fear of God" into your husband, so to speak. If you are willing (and able) to consider separation, as one potential option, there may still be a chance to reach him; it depends on his subsequent behavior. He may or may not be unreachable.

While I am also generally against divorce, I make a strong exception for cases of abuse, and I consider verbal abuse to be as damaging as physical abuse; the scars may be less visible, but the wounds often run deeper.

You mentioned that you did not have permission to drive or take a bus. The answer to this question is probably "No", but have you by chance ever been able to attend a local church and develop friendships? Or perhaps develop friendships with others in the neighborhood? I ask because you may very well need local support for any action you may choose to take.

I've added you to my prayer list and will be praying in the spirit for you all.

In Christ,
Daryl

chevyontheriver · Oct 16, 2016

Victoria113 said:
... I should mention that I thoroughly believe that divorce should only be reserved for the most extreme situations and will not personally consider it.

What you have described is most extreme.

He does things to me sexually that are against my will. I do not wish to get into it as I find it humiliating. He believes it is his right as a Christian husband and my job is to submit. If I have a problem with it, it is just because I am refusing to submit and obey. I am aware that this is not correct. I DO have a duty to submit but he has a duty to love and cherish which he is not fulfilling by hurting me in this way.

You have described rape.

I don't know what to do. Divorce is not an option, he is a good father... he is just unable to be anything but cruel to me.

I would never want to promote divorce. God hates it. But consider three things.

1.) A separation for your safety and the safety of your children might be very appropriate. There are shelters specifically for situations like this. My church runs a house in my little town specifically for this kind of situation and there are hundreds or thousands of similar houses around the country. Start by finding out where such places are, make contact so you can develop a plan to get there when you have to go.

2.) If he was like this all along but you never figured it out until afterwards, you might have been married under false pretenses. That would mean that you never consented to what you ended up with. Free and informed consent of the spouses is the critical element of a marriage. Without it, it's something other than a marriage. Almost all brands of Christians, even the Catholic Church, would see it as not a valid marriage if the consent was flawed. You have rightly presumed validity in your marriage, but you might want to explore that a bit more, looking at whether there were false pretenses. Divorce is a terrible and wrong thing, but were you ever actually validly married? I don't know.

3.) Look into Retrouvaille (retrouvaille.org) and some other counselling. If not for the both of you, just for yourself. There are good Christian counselors out there and they might be able to help for free if you have no access to your money.

4.) I didn't see anything about what your pastor has to say about any of this? Often a pastor can be a source of help. Is that the case for you?

Marriage can be difficult, but I would be so in the wrong to treat my wife as you described. I will be praying for you. Don't do nothing and just expect it all to magically get better.

98cwitr · Oct 17, 2016

What was he and your relationship together like before marriage?

DZoolander · Oct 18, 2016

How old are the kids?

Goatee · Oct 18, 2016

If he is like this with you, what is he going to be like with the kids as they get older?

Think hard about this situation!

God bless you and protect you and your family

akmom · Oct 19, 2016

You might be able to salvage the marriage if you were able to be assertive. I think abusive relationship dynamics vary a lot. I came from a family that wasn't too different from the one you're describing, and while I tend to agree with you that a broken home is rarely the answer, I do think that dynamic requires fixing. My dad was a wonderful person in many ways, and probably wouldn't be considered physically abusive (though that potential and the inequity of masculine strength was not unnoticed and may have influenced the dynamics), but he was very controlling. Being the breadwinner in a middle class family, with an isolated stay-at-home wife, conveys a lot of power. My mom was isolated because she didn't work and had no long-term friends or family due to constant moves (military). And my dad did use that to run the show. He did work himself into a bad dynamic of saying hurtful things. When people get into that rut [of being abusive], it's like they just keep digging deeper into it. Until there is some push-back from the other person. But the problem is, there usually isn't. That's why the abusive dynamics develop in the first place. I know people say that an abuser is an abuser, but I'm not sure I believe that. I think an abuser becomes one when there is opportunity and little resistance.

There are a lot of reasons a husband might be guarded and afraid to let his wife make decisions about money or share in ownership of the assets. Maybe he doesn't trust her judgment, or worries about a possible divorce and wants to make that less appealing. None of this is really acceptable, and when it escalates to forceful contact and completely undermining the wife's value, it makes for a crumbling foundation for the family unit. I don't know, Victoria. I agree that divorce has become a knee-jerk response, and usually doesn't play out into a better situation in the end. But intact families can be dysfunctional too. I think your situation is likely to get worse, and demand more of you than it does now, and eventually require you to compromise on your kids too. Having two parents and a steady income is a big part of a healthy upbringing, but there is so much more to it. They need healthy relationships with kids outside their family. They need to see healthy adult relationships modeled. They need to see both their parents' interaction with community, and watch those parents negotiate with, reach out to, and be blessed by others. An isolated little family run by the whims of one guy isn't a real wholesome upbringing. Kids from those situations grow to lack perspective and coping skills needed for success in life. If you can't articulate and assert your needs, it might be time to reach out to a therapist or pastor. You might start with a pastor's wife who does couples counseling. You probably need some outside help or your husband might just back you into a corner. You need to be able to approach the situation with confidence and resolve.

Poppyseed78 · Oct 19, 2016

akmom said:
You might be able to salvage the marriage if you were able to be assertive. I think abusive relationship dynamics vary a lot. I came from a family that wasn't too different from the one you're describing, and while I tend to agree with you that a broken home is rarely the answer, I do think that dynamic requires fixing. My dad was a wonderful person in many ways, and probably wouldn't be considered physically abusive (though that potential and the inequity of masculine strength was not unnoticed and may have influenced the dynamics), but he was very controlling. Being the breadwinner in a middle class family, with an isolated stay-at-home wife, conveys a lot of power. My mom was isolated because she didn't work and had no long-term friends or family due to constant moves (military). And my dad did use that to run the show. He did work himself into a bad dynamic of saying hurtful things. When people get into that rut [of being abusive], it's like they just keep digging deeper into it. Until there is some push-back from the other person. But the problem is, there usually isn't. That's why the abusive dynamics develop in the first place. I know people say that an abuser is an abuser, but I'm not sure I believe that. I think an abuser becomes one when there is opportunity and little resistance.

There are a lot of reasons a husband might be guarded and afraid to let his wife make decisions about money or share in ownership of the assets. Maybe he doesn't trust her judgment, or worries about a possible divorce and wants to make that less appealing. None of this is really acceptable, and when it escalates to forceful contact and completely undermining the wife's value, it makes for a crumbling foundation for the family unit. I don't know, Victoria. I agree that divorce has become a knee-jerk response, and usually doesn't play out into a better situation in the end. But intact families can be dysfunctional too. I think your situation is likely to get worse, and demand more of you than it does now, and eventually require you to compromise on your kids too. Having two parents and a steady income is a big part of a healthy upbringing, but there is so much more to it. They need healthy relationships with kids outside their family. They need to see healthy adult relationships modeled. They need to see both their parents' interaction with community, and watch those parents negotiate with, reach out to, and be blessed by others. An isolated little family run by the whims of one guy isn't a real wholesome upbringing. Kids from those situations grow to lack perspective and coping skills needed for success in life. If you can't articulate and assert your needs, it might be time to reach out to a therapist or pastor. You might start with a pastor's wife who does couples counseling. You probably need some outside help or your husband might just back you into a corner. You need to be able to approach the situation with confidence and resolve.

I agree with some things you said, but not the part about standing up to the abuser. That doesn't always work, and in fact, the abuser often doubles-down and becomes violent. Abusers don't like to be challenged, and they become enraged when the person they're abusing speaks up.

My ex-boyfriend was verbally abusive for years before I finally stood up for myself. I told him he couldn't talk to me that way, and I deserved better. His response? Just screaming more, calling me worse names, etc. When I broke up with him, he became crazed and showed up at my apartment, banging on the door because I wouldn't let him in. I ended up calling the police and getting an order of protection.

It's nice to think that an abused person can just say to her abuser "I won't take this anymore," but that might just provoke him to violence. In addition, what leverage does the OP have? She has no money and no transportation, and he knows that. He will think she's bluffing. If she actually plans to leave him, for whatever length of time, doing it unexpectedly is the safest option. Informing him of her intentions could enrage him to the point of hurting someone.

akmom · Oct 19, 2016

That's the problem with throwing around the term "abuse" and labeling someone "abuser," as if they're a different species and incapable of human interaction. The minute someone describes behavior that is concerning, everyone proclaims, "He's one of THOSE. Run for your life!"

Yes, some people fit that sociopathic description, but I tend to think most people are just humans, and they get selfish, and they do what they can get away with. I've known many, many people who had a change of heart when faced with losing their family. There is initial push-back from the offender indeed. (And I'm going to say offender because I tire of people getting called abusers every time they have a conflict.) Don't we all react with passion when our status quo is challenged? That doesn't mean he is going to murder her. In fact, that is very rare. If she has reason to think he might, then certainly she should seek safety, but more likely she is just going to have to be firm against that initial push-back and give him a chance to process her demands and come to accept them.

I think she could benefit from a qualified counselor, because it's a good idea to know what to expect, to plan her responses, and know exactly what it is that she wants to accomplish. Otherwise you're right: she's going to be bluffing, encounter even more harshness, and ultimately be back in the same place. Because I'm guessing she doesn't have the coping mechanisms in place to counter him all on her own. But sneaking away? Come on, she is an adult, and she can handle it like an adult unless it actually does escalate to violence.

Well-meaning, run-for-the-hills advice-givers have wreaked havoc on a lot of families. A scenario I've seen personally on several occasions: woman runs away when partner is at work, seeks help from various community resources that she has not really researched, and finds herself homeless and jobless and fighting for custody of her kids while the partner and his well-funded lawyer convince the judge that he is more stable and better able to parent. He keeps the house, kids, his job, and the only one out of the abuse scenario is the run-away partner. So if you're going to "run for the hills," at least get your ducks in a row first. Disappearing unexpectedly is terrible advice, unless you are literally running from an attack.

Poppyseed78 · Oct 19, 2016

akmom said:
That's the problem with throwing around the term "abuse" and labeling someone "abuser," as if they're a different species and incapable of human interaction. The minute someone describes behavior that is concerning, everyone proclaims, "He's one of THOSE. Run for your life!"

Yes, some people fit that sociopathic description, but I tend to think most people are just humans, and they get selfish, and they do what they can get away with. I've known many, many people who had a change of heart when faced with losing their family. There is initial push-back from the offender indeed. (And I'm going to say offender because I tire of people getting called abusers every time they have a conflict.) Don't we all react with passion when our status quo is challenged? That doesn't mean he is going to murder her. In fact, that is very rare. If she has reason to think he might, then certainly she should seek safety, but more likely she is just going to have to be firm against that initial push-back and give him a chance to process her demands and come to accept them.

I think she could benefit from a qualified counselor, because it's a good idea to know what to expect, to plan her responses, and know exactly what it is that she wants to accomplish. Otherwise you're right: she's going to be bluffing, encounter even more harshness, and ultimately be back in the same place. Because I'm guessing she doesn't have the coping mechanisms in place to counter him all on her own. But sneaking away? Come on, she is an adult, and she can handle it like an adult unless it actually does escalate to violence.

Well-meaning, run-for-the-hills advice-givers have wreaked havoc on a lot of families. A scenario I've seen personally on several occasions: woman runs away when partner is at work, seeks help from various community resources that she has not really researched, and finds herself homeless and jobless and fighting for custody of her kids while the partner and his well-funded lawyer convince the judge that he is more stable and better able to parent. He keeps the house, kids, his job, and the only one out of the abuse scenario is the run-away partner. So if you're going to "run for the hills," at least get your ducks in a row first. Disappearing unexpectedly is terrible advice, unless you are literally running from an attack.

I never suggested that she should just run without a plan. In fact, in an above post I said she should have copies of important documents made. I would also suggest getting the advice of a counselor, pastor, and lawyer first. Also, by saying that leaving "unexpectedly" might be the safest option, I meant that it would be unexpected for HIM - not for her. She would ideally have wise counsel from several different sources, as well as the help and support of trusted people in her life. I'm not suggesting leaving with nothing but the clothes on your back. This is the worst case scenario, and only if danger is a real possibility.

I'm actually not of the mindset that you should just throw in the towel and take off. I stayed with my boyfriend for years! despite all my friends and family telling me to leave him. I tried counseling, tried being more patient and understanding of him, and finally tried standing up to him - which backfired. Sometimes leaving is the only solution left. I loved him, and I still loved him when I ended the relationship. But he was killing my spirit and my self-esteem, and there was no future with him. I didn't give up on a whim, and I wasn't suggesting that the OP do so either, especially with kids involved. But, at least for me, I would have been better off if I had ended that relationship much sooner.

And, in the case of my ex-boyfriend, my leaving did not change him. Years after I left, I still heard from his friends that he wanted them to convince me to talk to him again because he was so broken-hearted. Apparently he was "devastated". So I asked them, did he ever ask about me? Ask how I'm doing? And the answer was always no. So apparently he was the same old selfish manipulator he always was.

All4Christ · Oct 19, 2016

akmom said:
That's the problem with throwing around the term "abuse" and labeling someone "abuser," as if they're a different species and incapable of human interaction. The minute someone describes behavior that is concerning, everyone proclaims, "He's one of THOSE. Run for your life!"

Yes, some people fit that sociopathic description, but I tend to think most people are just humans, and they get selfish, and they do what they can get away with. I've known many, many people who had a change of heart when faced with losing their family. There is initial push-back from the offender indeed. (And I'm going to say offender because I tire of people getting called abusers every time they have a conflict.) Don't we all react with passion when our status quo is challenged? That doesn't mean he is going to murder her. In fact, that is very rare. If she has reason to think he might, then certainly she should seek safety, but more likely she is just going to have to be firm against that initial push-back and give him a chance to process her demands and come to accept them.

I think she could benefit from a qualified counselor, because it's a good idea to know what to expect, to plan her responses, and know exactly what it is that she wants to accomplish. Otherwise you're right: she's going to be bluffing, encounter even more harshness, and ultimately be back in the same place. Because I'm guessing she doesn't have the coping mechanisms in place to counter him all on her own. But sneaking away? Come on, she is an adult, and she can handle it like an adult unless it actually does escalate to violence.

Well-meaning, run-for-the-hills advice-givers have wreaked havoc on a lot of families. A scenario I've seen personally on several occasions: woman runs away when partner is at work, seeks help from various community resources that she has not really researched, and finds herself homeless and jobless and fighting for custody of her kids while the partner and his well-funded lawyer convince the judge that he is more stable and better able to parent. He keeps the house, kids, his job, and the only one out of the abuse scenario is the run-away partner. So if you're going to "run for the hills," at least get your ducks in a row first. Disappearing unexpectedly is terrible advice, unless you are literally running from an attack.

Have you ever experienced sexual, verbal or emotional abuse? It is very real. Not all arguments or passionate debates are verbal abuse - but some of it can be as harmful if not more than physical abuse.

I'm not stating whether anyone should or shouldn't get a divorce, but it is important for everyone to realize that some other forms of abuse are just as real and hurtful as physical abuse.

akmom · Oct 20, 2016

Poppyseed, I understand that you broke up with an abusive boyfriend years ago, and it was a good choice for you. I agree. There's no reason to stay with an abusive boyfriend. But that has nothing to do with the OP. You severed ties with him completely and permanently, but that is not an option the OP will ever have. No matter what she does, he will always be a big part of her life. They're MARRIED and they have KIDS. They will always share children, and unless you are familiar with how courts handle custody cases, I doubt you grasp how much her life and routine will absolutely revolve around her husband's life and routine for the next 19 years at least. It affects where she can live geographically, how often and when she is allowed to be with her children, what her work schedule can be, how her finances must be handled, and most definitely how much control she has over how they are raised. Escaping his physical presence is only one aspect of the problem. For you, it was the only one, but for her it is probably the least important. It's not worth leaving a person at the expense of losing your kids and having your life manipulated in other ways. Getting copies of important documents isn't going to cut it. Getting a lawyer is a start, if she can even access one. Having a job, housing fit for kids, and some evidence of abuse might be her only shot at convincing a judge to give her custody of her kids, if her husband pursues custody at all. Because courts favor a parent with a job, housing, and history of stability, and tend to be skeptical about allegations of abuse if there isn't anything already documented. Not to mention, leaving him isn't her first choice anyway. I just don't see how sneaking away when he least expects it is going to work out in her favor. Getting to the root of the problem just might. Why does everyone assume bad relationships are always unsalvageable? A qualified counselor can get her started, and if it really is necessary for her to leave, that is also the person who would help her get her ducks in a row. I cringe at some of the advice people give...

All4Christ · Oct 20, 2016

akmom said:
Poppyseed, I understand that you broke up with an abusive boyfriend years ago, and it was a good choice for you. I agree. There's no reason to stay with an abusive boyfriend. But that has nothing to do with the OP. You severed ties with him completely and permanently, but that is not an option the OP will ever have. No matter what she does, he will always be a big part of her life. They're MARRIED and they have KIDS. They will always share children, and unless you are familiar with how courts handle custody cases, I doubt you grasp how much her life and routine will absolutely revolve around her husband's life and routine for the next 19 years at least. It affects where she can live geographically, how often and when she is allowed to be with her children, what her work schedule can be, how her finances must be handled, and most definitely how much control she has over how they are raised. Escaping his physical presence is only one aspect of the problem. For you, it was the only one, but for her it is probably the least important. It's not worth leaving a person at the expense of losing your kids and having your life manipulated in other ways. Getting copies of important documents isn't going to cut it. Getting a lawyer is a start, if she can even access one. Having a job, housing fit for kids, and some evidence of abuse might be her only shot at convincing a judge to give her custody of her kids, if her husband pursues custody at all. Because courts favor a parent with a job, housing, and history of stability, and tend to be skeptical about allegations of abuse if there isn't anything already documented. Not to mention, leaving him isn't her first choice anyway. I just don't see how sneaking away when he least expects it is going to work out in her favor. Getting to the root of the problem just might. Why does everyone assume bad relationships are always unsalvageable? A qualified counselor can get her started, and if it really is necessary for her to leave, that is also the person who would help her get her ducks in a row. I cringe at some of the advice people give...

Not everyone says it isn't salvageable, but your responses seem to imply that emotional, verbal and other abuse is not real abuse and is not very damaging both to the woman and her children. (It can be as damaging as physical abuse.) Downplaying it to that degree is a very damaging view for Christians to promote. If I misunderstand your point, then I apologize, but I am curious as to your answer to my previous question.

I have experienced other forms of abuse - and it is very real. Women often feel like they can't go to churches about it - because many people say that she is overreacting. Many tell her comments like "it is just a passionate argument. We all get passionate when we get upset! It's not like he's going to murder her!" Also, these types of abuse also often escalate into physical or sexual abuse.

Acknowledging that other forms of abuse can cause a serious situation doesn't necessarily mean that the relationship is over, but it is a start to helping the people in these situations.

Again, I'm not trying to misrepresent your post. Please clarify where I am wrong. It is, however, something very important to me.

ETA: Perhaps my post is in regards to general populace rather than directly from your posts. It is related but it happens to a greater degree outside of this thread as well.

akmom · Oct 20, 2016

I'm not interested in debating semantics. "Verbal abuse" is not a term I take seriously, it's not even recognized as a crime, and qualifying it would be too subjective. Yes, physical and verbal conflict are both hurtful. My post wasn't trying to downplay the OP's suffering. I'm trying to look at the reality of the situation and what options she has for improving it.

The reality is, he is cruel. The reality is also that she is very isolated and has few resources, and it looks like those two problems are destined to get worse. Separate from that, but related, is the likelihood that she lacks the confidence and direction to counter her husband's escalating cruelty. So I think she would benefit from the assistance of a qualified counselor. Other posters have raised concerns that churches often don't provide useful support. I don't know if this is people's experience from generations past, or assumptions, or what. But a trained and certified counselor probably wouldn't be directing battered women to stay in their situations. If that is the first-hand experience of posters here who have utilized trained and certified Christian counselors in recent years, then I'd be interested to hear about those experiences. While all churches and their members are going to have their unique personalities and styles, I think the OP has a good chance of finding a match that can help her while respecting her values and goals. Giving up and leaving is, at least for now, off the table as far as she is concerned, and as hard as it is to hear about her sad experiences, I don't think it's a wise decision for her either. That's NOT because his verbal cruelty doesn't matter, but rather because I don't see how she will be better off, all things considered.

All4Christ · Oct 20, 2016

akmom said:
I'm not interested in debating semantics. "Verbal abuse" is not a term I take seriously, it's not even recognized as a crime, and qualifying it would be too subjective. Yes, physical and verbal conflict are both hurtful. My post wasn't trying to downplay the OP's suffering. I'm trying to look at the reality of the situation and what options she has for improving it.

The reality is, he is cruel. The reality is also that she is very isolated and has few resources, and it looks like those two problems are destined to get worse. Separate from that, but related, is the likelihood that she lacks the confidence and direction to counter her husband's escalating cruelty. So I think she would benefit from the assistance of a qualified counselor. Other posters have raised concerns that churches often don't provide useful support. I don't know if this is people's experience from generations past, or assumptions, or what. But a trained and certified counselor probably wouldn't be directing battered women to stay in their situations. If that is the first-hand experience of posters here who have utilized trained and certified Christian counselors in recent years, then I'd be interested to hear about those experiences. While all churches and their members are going to have their unique personalities and styles, I think the OP has a good chance of finding a match that can help her while respecting her values and goals. Giving up and leaving is, at least for now, off the table as far as she is concerned, and as hard as it is to hear about her sad experiences, I don't think it's a wise decision for her either. That's NOT because his verbal cruelty doesn't matter, but rather because I don't see how she will be better off, all things considered.

Many things that are severely damaging are not crimes. I don't think that is the best deciding factor as to whether something is or isn't abuse. (I take it from your response that the answer to my previous question is no?) That said, I don't want to turn this into a "semantics" debate about abuse either. Just consider that there may be more to the picture than meets the eye when you see other women in really bad situations.

In regards to the OP: As you said, verbal cruelty does matter. However, a counselor or pastor would be able to better identify the severity of the situation and the best course of action to follow. Some verbal cruelty can be overcome by love and counseling. In other situations, the spouse may be on the path to more severe actions. (Note that the OP's situation is more than verbal cruelty). None of us know with certainty what the best solution is, as we haven't seen the situation in person, but I think we all can agree that asking for help is a good idea.

To the OP: I will pray for you and your family!

Cruel spouse

New Member

Clara bonam audax

Traditional Catholic

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places

Well-Known Member

Active Member

A man of God

Well-Known Member

Lord forgive me

Persnickety Member

Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙

Newbie

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙

Newbie

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙

Similar threads