These things are not proven they are only believed. Michael has some parallel tasks with the messiah.
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Does God have a God? Explaining John 20:17 in Defense of the Trinity.
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These things are not proven they are only believed. Michael has some parallel tasks with the messiah.
It seems a shame that your God depends on human concocted definitions.
The trinity doctrine requires that the three be persons yet with the exception of the trinity any definition of "person requires a human body. So the trinity requires its own unique definition of "person" which amounts to circular logic.
John said that whatever form Christ has taken that is the form those of the first resurrection will take.
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I do not understand what you imply by these scriptures mean; thy do not imply Jesus was always God's son. Satan seems to be the first to call Jesus the son of God, but I see nothing in scripture that suggests Jesus was Gods son before He took on human form.
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There is an assumption that polytheism is always wrong. By way of analogy consider the word "people", a thousand people are murderers; should we assume all people are murders? Polytheism describes pagan practice which has nothing in common with God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. You depend on a peculiar use of semantics being correct that God will not be offended.
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Radrook
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I am merely stating that the Trinity doctrine sounds as if it were polytheism to millions of people. I am not saying that if indeed it is true, that it is evil. Indeed, if it were true, it really would not change my respect for Jesus one bit. Why should it?
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Man was made in God's image. So if God is three in one, then we can expect that we are three and one to some degree, as well. In fact, we know this to be true.
For Man has a:
...
For Man has a:
1. Soul
(Ultimate mind, will, and emotions)
2. Spiritual body
3. Physical body
(Ultimate mind, will, and emotions)
2. Spiritual body
3. Physical body
...
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I believe there is nothing wrong with the translation in the KJV's rendering in Philippians 2:6.
https://badmanna.wordpress.com/2015...tation-a-post-from-will-j-kinney-kjv-website/
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Jack Terrence
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Where did you post the scripture? I do not read the threads. I reply to "Alerts." Give one scripture which you think proves that Jesus did not operate on his own power and I will answer it.
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The post I was responding to said that Jesus only referred to Himself as "son of man" never "Son of God." I was not responding to the question if Jesus was always God's son.
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He asked the apostles who they and the people thought he was? And praised Peter for having the only "right" answer, that he said was revealed to him (Peter) by "his/their" Father in Heaven... And that was, "That he was the Christ (Messiah, only Savior) the "Son of God"... Jesus would not glorify himself, but wanted that to be up to them, as it was revealed to them by the Spirit of the Father, or "tell" them as to say to them "I am The Son of God" or "I am God", although he did say "I AM" to these things, before he was cruxified...
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I was not addressing "the translation in the KJV's rendering in Philippians 2:6." I was referring to how it was twisted to fit heterodox teaching in the post quoted immediately above your post here.
,....But the KJV rendering is somewhat lacking as I said in my previous post. The Greek word "arpagmos" is translated "robbery" in the KJV. This came about because the word "arpagmos" only occurs once in the KJV and the correct meaning was not known. According to the scholarship which I cited, in my previous post, the word was used in Greek writings contemporary with the NT, means "something to take advantage of,” or, more idiomatically, ‘'as something to use for his own advantage.”
.....Second point the Greek word "einai" translated "to be" in the KJV is not a future tense or subjunctive. It is a present infinitive and correctly translated as "the being equal with God," thus it was a then and there present reality not something considered and declined.
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If you have studied the Bible and the "Trinity" as much as you claim you would know that the Trinity was written about by the early church 170 years and less after Christ. However In addition to the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit were addressed or referred to as God in scripture.
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Don't you realize that these were people "trying to figure things out" and did not have the kind of advancements that have sped things up today, all the information, knowledge or tools in their arsenal or at their disposal, like we do today, which means that all this "old" information, while it can be somewhat useful, is pretty out of date for the most part and are full of older theories that most of us have already built on and have now surpassed, and cannot compare with what were discovering now, today, that even the Bible itself says, would not become fully opened up, and fully known until the end (times) were very near, or we were "in that period" of time, when there would be a sudden explosion of truth and knowledge and wisdom and understanding, that our predecessor's just didn't get to have...
God Bless!
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Empty argumentation which does not address, explain or clarify anything. No different than a kindergartner saying, "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!."
You have shown no such thing to me! If you can, link me to a post/posts where you have shown any of this?
*1, ignores Philippians 2:6.
*2, zero scripture provided.
*3, See response to *1.
God is one. There are three who are called or referred to as God in scripture. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit.The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit.The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God.
.....Why didn't Jesus reveal Himself to be God? What happened to Him when He only claimed to be the Son of God? What would have happened to Jesus if He had claimed to be God? He appeared to be an ordinary, mortal man to everyone. They rejected Him when He claimed to be the Son of God, if He had claimed to be God they would have thought He was insane and they would have done the same and even worse.
.....When John told his disciples to ask Jesus "Are thou he that should come, or do we look for another? " Even then Jesus did not say "Yes, I am the Messiah," or "Yes, I am the Son of God," He said, "Go and show John again those things which you do hear and see: The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me." Matthew 11;3-6
Most of this is just rehashing what you said above. Yes, the Holy Spirit does guide believers, unfortunately every heterodox group around; LDS. JW. UPCI. OP, INC, WWCG etc, claims they are guided by the Holy Spirit and they know they are right and everyone else is wrong.
.....The writings of the ECF, who were native Greek speakers, give us a snapshot of how the early church interpreted and practiced the scripture. Are they wrong because they contradict someone's pet doctrine? It will take more than hand waving and pooh poohing to prove it.
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This is all a 2nd/3rd copy/paste from a questionable website. Here directly from Tertullian's writing referring to the Paraclete, i.e. the Holy Spirit as a person. From this we can conclude that most of your copy/paste is equally suspect.
Tertullian VII. Against Praxeas Chap. IX
Happily the Lord Himself employs this expression of the person of the Paraclete, so as to signify not a division or severance, but a disposition (of mutual relations in the Godhead); for He says, “I will pray the Father, and He shall send you another Comforter…even the Spirit of truth,” thus making the Paraclete distinct from Himself, even as we say that the Son is also distinct from the Father; so that He showed a third degree in the Paraclete, as we believe the second degree is in the Son, by reason of the order observed in the Economy. Besides, does not the very fact that they have the distinct names of Father and Son amount to a declaration that they are distinct in personality?
Tertullian III. On the Veiling of Virgins.
Chap. I Whereas the reason why the Lord sent the Paraclete was, that, since human mediocrity was unable to take in all things at once, discipline should, little by little, be directed, and ordained, and carried on to perfection, by that Vicar of the Lord, the Holy Spirit. “Still,” He said, “I have many things to say to you, but ye are not yet able to bear them: when that Spirit of truth shall have come, He will conduct you into all truth, and will report to you the supervening (things).” But above, withal, He made a declaration concerning this His work. What, then, is the Paraclete’s administrative office but this: the direction of discipline, the revelation of the Scriptures, the reformation of the intellect, the advancement toward the “better things?” Nothing is without stages of growth: all things await their season. In short, the preacher says, “A time to everything.”, … So, too, righteousness — for the God of righteousness and of creation is the same — was first in a rudimentary state, having a natural fear of God: from that stage it advanced, through the Law and the Prophets, to infancy; from that stage it passed, through the Gospel, to the fervour of youth: now, through the Paraclete, it is settling into maturity. He will be, after Christ, the only one to be called and revered as Master; He is the only prelate, because He alone succeeds Christ.
Happily the Lord Himself employs this expression of the person of the Paraclete, so as to signify not a division or severance, but a disposition (of mutual relations in the Godhead); for He says, “I will pray the Father, and He shall send you another Comforter…even the Spirit of truth,” thus making the Paraclete distinct from Himself, even as we say that the Son is also distinct from the Father; so that He showed a third degree in the Paraclete, as we believe the second degree is in the Son, by reason of the order observed in the Economy. Besides, does not the very fact that they have the distinct names of Father and Son amount to a declaration that they are distinct in personality?
Tertullian III. On the Veiling of Virgins.
Chap. I Whereas the reason why the Lord sent the Paraclete was, that, since human mediocrity was unable to take in all things at once, discipline should, little by little, be directed, and ordained, and carried on to perfection, by that Vicar of the Lord, the Holy Spirit. “Still,” He said, “I have many things to say to you, but ye are not yet able to bear them: when that Spirit of truth shall have come, He will conduct you into all truth, and will report to you the supervening (things).” But above, withal, He made a declaration concerning this His work. What, then, is the Paraclete’s administrative office but this: the direction of discipline, the revelation of the Scriptures, the reformation of the intellect, the advancement toward the “better things?” Nothing is without stages of growth: all things await their season. In short, the preacher says, “A time to everything.”, … So, too, righteousness — for the God of righteousness and of creation is the same — was first in a rudimentary state, having a natural fear of God: from that stage it advanced, through the Law and the Prophets, to infancy; from that stage it passed, through the Gospel, to the fervour of youth: now, through the Paraclete, it is settling into maturity. He will be, after Christ, the only one to be called and revered as Master; He is the only prelate, because He alone succeeds Christ.
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No, not evolved, but "grows" with time, more knowledge and increased understanding, or perhaps you wish to explain why even God himself had to present us with an inferior covenant first, that could do very little during that time to teach them superior (that would only come later on) knowledge wisdom, truth, understanding, ect. about matters of faith and God, why did what was weaker and lesser and inferior come first, in the past to point to a point in the future, when more about these things would be understood better... Did it evolve?, or did the people need time to mature and grow, like today's age...
Jesus said the "Holy Spirit of truth would come and "lead us" into "all truth"... Do you suppose this all happened "right away", and then become "less" later on?, or would it happen over time, with generations building upon previous generations work, and grow and become "more" over time and up to the time of the end, when we would, only then, have "more" truth then we've ever had before...?
Have I (we) been "teaching damnable heresy" or just "truth", perhaps to hard for you to accept or hear or listen to?
"Out of the mouth of babes..." I am a child, I am a babe... I am a foolish one, (an amateur) made and used by him to confound the (supposedly) wise (in their own eyes)...
He apparently didn't believe the Gospel of John, who is called "the only true witness" of him (Christ)... "If", "if" there was a time "before" the Son existed, a time when he was "created" or born or made, how much can we really know about it? It would have had to have taken place, long, long before this universe, this reality, or anything in it, long, long "before" all that we know, or can possibly know as "real" or long, long before anything "we" can know at all, period... So, what's your point?
Jesus said that "He" resurrected "himself" in scripture, only God alone can raise the dead, let alone raise themselves from the dead, no angel or spirit can do that... (John 2:19-22)
God Bless!
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I believe the King James Bible to be the inerrant perfect Word of God that is faithful translation from the original languages. For I believe it is the divinely inspired preserved Word for our day. It is not improvement upon the originals, nor is it inferior to them. Now, while I may believe the KJV is perfect and without error, from my experience, I have found that most KJV-Onlyists believe that you should only read the King James. Many will also say that the King James is not all that hard to understand, too.
I disagree with both of these conclusions. So while I believe the KJV is the divinely inspired Word of God, I do not think one should stick to just reading it alone. For I have found Modern Translations to be very helpful in updating the language from the "Early Modern English" (i.e. the 1600's English); However, I do not put my entire trust in Modern Translations because the devil has placed his name all over them and key doctrines have been watered down and important messages within God's Word have been neutered.
In other words, I read Modern Translations as if I am panning for gold. I have to sift thru the dirt or the garbage in order to get to the gold of the passage that lines up with the King James.
This gold that is found within the dirt of the translations can be very useful because it reflects what is in the King James. This is the gold that people hear and are saved when they hear the gospel message. For someone can be saved just by hearing a few Bible verses about the gospel message of Jesus Christ. This gold shines thru and penetrates their heart.
Like the Parable of the Sower. Believers receive the Word of God into their heart from those passages that are talking about salvation. Words that line up with the King James. These words are sown in their heart. And if they let this Word take root in their heart by continually reading the Word of God, then they will have hidden His Word in their heart so they will not sin against Him. It will have taken root and they will not fall away due to persecution or the trials of this life.
For it only takes a few Bible verses to get someone saved. However, washing yourself with the water of the Word is going to be a lot more effective if you use the pure Word of God. For we received the Word not as the words of men, but as the very words of God (1 Thessalonians 2:13). For if one second, I could not trust even just one word of God, then what makes you think that I could not trust the rest of the words within His Holy written Word? No, I did not receive the Word of God as the words of men but as the very words of God (just as Thessalonians states).
However, that said, I believe God had inspired His Word in the King James for three major reasons based on Scripture.
Three Scriptural Reasons to Trust in A Perfect Word Today.
#1. God's Word claims that it is perfect
God's Word claims that it is perfect (Psalms 12:6) (Psalms 119:140) (Proverbs 30:5) and that it will be preserved for all generations (Psalms 12:7) and it will stand forever (Isaiah 40:8) (1 Peter 1:25). Therefore, seeing Scripture plainly states these facts, it then becomes an issue of a test of your faith in God's Word (See the test the devil gave to Eve in Genesis 3:1); Because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe (1 Thessalonians 2:13). In other words, do you believe you hold the very words of God within your hands like the disciples did?
#2. KJV vs. Modern Translations
Scripture says,
17 "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."
(Matthew 7:17-18).
A simple side by side comparison of the KJV vs Modern Translations shows us that the devil tries to place his name in the Modern Versions. This is the bad fruit from the tree of the Modern Translations. Have no idea what I am talking about?
Well, many Bible versions say that it is the dragon who is standing on the sea shore in Revelation. This is just evil and wrong.
See Parallel Version for Revelation 13:1 here...
Revelation 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
See, if you know anything about Bible language, standing on something means that you "own it"; And the devil wants to own you. In the King James, John is standing on the seashore. Yet in many Bible versions the dragon (i.e. the devil) is standing on the seashore.
Why is this a problem?
Lets look at...
Genesis 22:17
"That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies"
Did you catch that? God says to Abraham that He will multiply his seed as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is upon the seashore where he will then possess the gate of his enemies (i.e. the devil and his kingdom). The apostle John who wrote Revelation was Jewish and he was the promised seed of Genesis 22 standing on the seashore in Revelation 13. It was not the dragon or the devil standing on the seashore.
For certain Modern Versions eliminate the part of the passage in Revelation 13:1 that says that John is standing on the seashore (When he refers to himself as "I").
Also, the devil tries to take out key points in important discussions within the Bible (Which can effect doctrine). For example: In the bulk of Romans 7, Paul talks of the problem he had from his past experience within the Pharisee's religion, which reduced salvation into a form of "Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism" and in going back to the Old Covenant Law (Which leads to problems). For while Paul was a Pharisee, he struggled with sin, but in Romans 8:1, he gives us the climax or heart of his message as a solution to overcoming sin in Romans 8:1. Now, certain modern translations have eliminated "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Eliminating this passage destroys the whole thrust of Paul's argument. Walking in the Spirit is the key to being in Christ Jesus. You eliminate that and you destroy Paul's argument. Also, 1 John 5:7 is the only verse in the Bible that is the clearest and most concise teaching on the Godhead (i.e. the Trinity).
#3. Biblical Numerics
Bible Numbers that glorify God and His Word. (Note: These are not equidistant letter sequences or numbers that attempt to get one to have a special dream, or to divine the future in some way - Striving to foretell the future is forbidden in the Bible). Numbers are something that we deal with in our every day life and all things glorify God. So obviously the numbers in God's Word would naturally glorify Him in some way. What am I talking about? Check out this video on Numbers & the Greek New Testament.
Also, here is a video series by Mike Hoggard that talks about the number 7 and number 8 in the King James.
Now, while I may not agree with Mike on everything he teaches in the Bible nor on the way he teaches Bible numbers in every example, I have found that he has made some startling discoveries. Discoveries that do not appear in the modern translations but only in the King James.
I hope this helps.
And may God bless you.
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I think people get confused with the idea that we are supposed to worship Jesus but actually we are supposed to BE Jesus (one in Christ, a race of priests, etc) and worship the Father.
The Son is God incarnate, the Logos-made-flesh, and the Father is God discarnate.
The Son is God incarnate, the Logos-made-flesh, and the Father is God discarnate.
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It's the same reason we true Christians are in the world but not of the world. It's for the same reason you use the words "Monday", "Tuesday", "Wednesday," and "Thursday" even though these names are of pagan origin. Even God must be patient with many of his people in their overcoming of their sin. For most believers it is not an overnight process in living holy for God being fit for the master's use in all He wants of them. For even God who is holy can use the devil and evil for His good purposes. For example: God used the evil that the Pharisees intended towards Jesus as a part of His plan to pay for the sins of the entire world (So that man can be forgiven personally of his sins by accepting the free gift of salvation thru Jesus Christ). It's the same reason why Jesus said that he was among sinners. He was there as a great physician to heal those who were sick spiritually (i.e. to help people to be cured of their sin problem whereby they would overcome their sin).
While a select few doctrines have been effected, I believe that the majority of message of God's Word within Modern Translations has remained uneffected by the devil's subtle influence. The gospel and many other teachings or doctrines can still be understood by other verses. I believe a person can still be saved by a reading from Modern Translations. So the gospel has remained uneffected in most Modern Translations. Paul had to be around pagan altars and pagan people in order to evangelize them. Do we stop talking to people because they are evil and not of God? No. Metaphorically speaking, Paul was looking for a few gold nuggets by sifting thru the dirt. This is what we can do with the Modern Translations. While certain key doctrines have been watered down or nuetered and have the devil's name within them, people can be saved and learn many wonderful things even with a watered down version of the Scriptures. For the light of God's Word is hard to snuff out entirely without someone realizing it is no longer God's Word. For example: Do you consider the Queen James Bible to be an accurate translation? Or do you think it is a translation that was influenced by a person's particular sin?
Even idolatry or people worshiping a false God is a sin.
It's why people do not worship God as He is truly revealed within the Scriptures.
John 3:19-21 gives us the reason why men do not come to the light. It is because they had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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