Polygamy is okay?

SayaOtonashi said:

Is it okay for Christians to practice polygamy

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Short answer, no.
Long answer, no.

SayaOtonashi said:

Than why do people defend it?

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For the same reason people try to defend any sin. They want to make it OK so they can look like good Christians, but still have their sin.

SayaOtonashi said:

So why did God allow polygamy? I mean many of the Old Testament men God picked were polygamous

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God allows lots of things, otherwise we wouldn't have free will. Many of the people God used were adulterers, murderers and sinners. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. God also can and will use anyone that pleases him. If he was looking for a prefect vessel then he would never find anyone. God loves us and can use us exactly the way we are for his glory.

There is also a big difference between allowing something and condoning it. God never said to take many wives. As a matter of fact there are plenty of verses saying marriage is meant to be a man and a woman.

"And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh."

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."

"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh."

In every case it says that TWO shall become one flesh. Not seven shall become one flesh.

SayaOtonashi said:

So why did God allow polygamy? I mean many of the Old Testament men God picked were polygamous

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God didn't command polygamy he allowed it for a reason and that was essentially two fold: 1) to increase the population of believers in him 2) there were a lot of wars in which mostly the men participated leaving a huge imbalance between men and women such that the one man one woman relationship would leave way too many single women childless for life or committing adultery (out of marriage) in order to satisfy sexual needs and desires for children. In short Polygamy at that time was a solution to a problem that existed. At the time of Christ Isreal wasn't at war and the man/woman balance was no longer an issue so the need for polygamy was no longer justified. In Christianity we have Paul himself equating elders of churches to have ONE wife (only one). We see way too often what polygamy causes and there were also concubines and other things done in the OT to help increase populations. Would Israel have survived as a nation without polygamy? Perhaps not. Was it God needing to have it at the time? NO.. it was man's disobedience that was IMO responsible for the need of polygamy in most cases Polygamy had a detrimental effect to God's will. God used polygamy to get things done because he uses our sins often to do his will anyway it doesn't mean he intends us to sin it means he already knows we will mess up and deals with the current situation regardless.

Sophrosyne said:

God didn't command polygamy he allowed it for a reason and that was essentially two fold: 1) to increase the population of believers in him 2) there were a lot of wars in which mostly the men participated leaving a huge imbalance between men and women such that the one man one woman relationship would leave way too many single women childless for life or committing adultery (out of marriage) in order to satisfy sexual needs and desires for children. In short Polygamy at that time was a solution to a problem that existed. At the time of Christ Isreal wasn't at war and the man/woman balance was no longer an issue so the need for polygamy was no longer justified. In Christianity we have Paul himself equating elders of churches to have ONE wife (only one). We see way too often what polygamy causes and there were also concubines and other things done in the OT to help increase populations. Would Israel have survived as a nation without polygamy? Perhaps not. Was it God needing to have it at the time? NO.. it was man's disobedience that was IMO responsible for the need of polygamy in most cases Polygamy had a detrimental effect to God's will. God used polygamy to get things done because he uses our sins often to do his will anyway it doesn't mean he intends us to sin it means he already knows we will mess up and deals with the current situation regardless.

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I have to seriously disagree with pretty much all of this. God did not need polygamy to make Israel survive. He certainly didn't need polygamy to make more believers, that's a very odd thought. The thought of polygamy being good so people didn't have to commit adultery is just a justification for something that wasn't supposed to happen.

God promised Abraham that his blood line would number more than the stars, he didn't need polygamy to accomplish that. And by taking another woman he totally hosed himself and everyone else to this day because of it. If God means for something to happen then it will happen. If he told Noah to build the ark out of toilet paper then it would have worked because his hand was in it.

jacksknight said:

I have to seriously disagree with pretty much all of this. God did not need polygamy to make Israel survive. He certainly didn't need polygamy to make more believers, that's a very odd thought. The thought of polygamy being good so people didn't have to commit adultery is just a justification for something that wasn't supposed to happen.

God promised Abraham that his blood line would number more than the stars, he didn't need polygamy to accomplish that. And by taking another woman he totally hosed himself and everyone else to this day because of it. If God means for something to happen then it will happen. If he told Noah to build the ark out of toilet paper then it would have worked because his hand was in it.

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The problem with your logic is that you are assuming Israel "does right" by God (obeys him) it is their lack of faith and obedience that had them in many wars that killed a great portion of their men that if they had followed God would not have happened and polygamy was not God's choice but man's solution to the problem and God allowed it. As for polygamy making for more believers it isn't about it making believers but rather increasing numbers of people so that the very small percentage of believers would translate into a larger number. God rarely moved in the Bible in the OT to protect his people when they were all rejecting him instead he would leave them to their sinful ways and polygamy wasn't a sin till later in the Bible just as it wasn't a sin to marry your sister early in the bible but now it is considered wrong too.

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. (bold mine, Matthew 19:8, 1984 NIV)

God allows all kinds of awful things because we are steeped in sin in a sinful world. One of the most Godly men in the OT was King David (who had multiple wives and concubines). In his obedience to God, David cleansed the region of sinful people. But God also said David couldn't build a temple for him, because he was a man of blood. (1 Chronicles 28:3) God deals with us as we are, not as he wished we were (i.e., without sin).

Another example is when Jesus used David's violation of the Law as an example of righteousness. (Matthew 12:4, Mark 2:26, Luke 6:4) It wasn't ideal, but it made sense in that situation.

If you are catholic then you should follow the decrees of the pope.
The pope says that polygamy is wrong
but the bible never says this and in fact the law allows it.
There is even a time when God promoted polygamy.
So, the unless God is promoting wrong doing polygamy is ok.

Polygamy is not because of a lack of men due to war.
That is just a human rationalization.

Merlin said:

If you are catholic then you should follow the decrees of the pope.
The pope says that polygamy is wrong
but the bible never says this and in fact the law allows it.
There is even a time when God promoted polygamy.
So, the unless God is promoting wrong doing polygamy is ok.

Polygamy is not because of a lack of men due to war.
That is just a human rationalization.

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Where in the bible does God actually promote polygamy?
What is your solution to the lack of men due to war? If you truly read the Bible thoroughly you won't see women in polygamous relationships trying to divorce their "shared" husband but rather trying to compete with other women to have the first and the most sons. We also see in the Bible God commanding such things as male relatives of a male that died leaving his wife a widow forced to impregnate the widow whom he isn't married. The onus here is that God wanted most women to have children and often there were exceptions even rules to get every women pregnant like even allowing concubines and slaves to bear children for childless mistress and that mistress to claim the child as her own. We see in the Bible a story that is famous where a man tricks another man to marry his older daughter because he has many daughters old enough to marry and the younger one the man wanted had to wait until the older daughter was married before she could marry. This lack of abundance of men lead to on of the first instances of polygamy I think.

Our one God has within himself the essence of relationship. Our concept of oneness by itself does not allow us to understand this facet of God's nature. Mankind was created in the image of God and marriage was given to us by God to reveal an aspects of him (Colossians 1:16) that couldn't be revealed any other way. Experiencing a Godly marriage allows us to experience some of God's relational nature.

God's relational nature was somewhat revealed by Jesus when he said, I and the Father are one. (John 10:30, 1984 NIV)

Another way to know God better is through the relationship between the bride of Christ and Jesus (as well as the body of Christ and Jesus).

Some of it is also revealed when Jesus said, For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them. (Matthew 18:20, 1984 NIV) A gathering of multiple people for God's will is a fuller representation of God than someone by himself.
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Scripture is chock full of examples of people sinning without God rebuking them. Just because someone in the Bible had more than one wife and God didn't rebuke them, doesn't mean at all that he approved of it. Slavery has a similar position in Scripture.

So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. (2 Corinthians 5:9, 1984 NIV)

For those that are trying to live pleasingly to God, Scripture provides enough evidence that monogamy is a higher/better calling than polygamy. I believe it also gives us enough evidence to see that polygamy is a sin.

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. (bold mine, Matthew 19:8, 1984 NIV)

The way things were in the beginning was the ideal. God, through Moses, permitted divorce because of the sinful condition of people's hearts (unyielding to God). Jesus revealed divorce to actually be a sin. (Matthew 19:9)

The ideal was a single helper wife (Genesis 2:18). With that wife, the two would be come one. (Mark 10:7-8) This marriage relationship was held out as mirror of Christ and his bride (the church). (Ephesians 5:31-32) It is not possible for there to be more than one church in that context. (1 Corinthians 10:17, 12:12)

The higher calling of monogamy was required for people in positions of authority (from whom people would see an example of what God is like). One example is the noble task of being a church elder (1 Timothy 3:2) or being a King over Israel about which God said, He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray. (Deuteronomy 17:17a, 1984 NIV)

The reason given that the king should not take many wives was that his heart would be led astray. This problem is not unique to kings. But more to the point, being called to be God's child, with the indwelt Holy Spirit, is a much higher calling than of being a church elder or being a king over an earthly nation. Being a child of God equates you with God.

Sophrosyne said:

Where in the bible does God actually promote polygamy?
What is your solution to the lack of men due to war? If you truly read the Bible thoroughly you won't see women in polygamous relationships trying to divorce their "shared" husband but rather trying to compete with other women to have the first and the most sons. We also see in the Bible God commanding such things as male relatives of a male that died leaving his wife a widow forced to impregnate the widow whom he isn't married.

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In 2nd Samuel 12:8 the prophet Nathan declares:
2Sa 12:8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
The prophet was speaking for God and clearly said 'I gave you wives' (plural, wives)
so this is a case where God is promoting polygamy.
So, unless you are prepared to say that God promotes sin it cannot be a sin to have multiple wives.

The onus here is that God wanted most women to have children and often there were exceptions even rules to get every women pregnant like even allowing concubines and slaves to bear children for childless mistress and that mistress to claim the child as her own.

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That is an interesting theory. But can you give a bible reference which actually states this?

Greg J. said:

For those that are trying to live pleasingly to God, Scripture provides enough evidence that monogamy is a higher/better calling than polygamy. I believe it also gives us enough evidence to see that polygamy is a sin.

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Yes, I agree that monogamy is a better calling but the question is 'Is it okay for Christians to practice polygamy

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. (bold mine, Matthew 19:8, 1984 NIV)

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Here you have changed the context from polygamy to divorce.

The way things were in the beginning was the ideal. God, through Moses, permitted divorce because of the sinful condition of people's hearts (unyielding to God). Jesus revealed divorce to actually be a sin. (Matthew 19:9)

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Once again, this is speaking of divorce and not polygamy.

Merlin said:

In 2nd Samuel 12:8 the prophet Nathan declares:
2Sa 12:8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.
The prophet was speaking for God and clearly said 'I gave you wives' (plural, wives)
so this is a case where God is promoting polygamy.
So, unless you are prepared to say that God promotes sin it cannot be a sin to have multiple wives.

That is an interesting theory. But can you give a bible reference which actually states this?

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Ask yourself which of the children of David were the ones God favored was it the "given wives" of Saul or the one David himself married?
God allowed Polygamy and I believe this example was because of the customs of the day those "wives" of Saul would most likely end up not treated too well overall and were better off as concubines to him having children than trying to convince other men that they would be good wives to them.
For Christians we see it as sin to have more than one wife and if you consider Israel at the time of Jesus we don't see polygamy mentioned at all in fact we see him telling men that they cannot divorce and remarry unless there is adultery which flies in the face of polygamy.

Scripture itself says nothing one way or the other, but longstanding Christian tradition and practice has been that polygamy is not acceptable.

-CryptoLutheran

Let me be more explicit about the main (on topic) point in my previous post (which I had put in bold).

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.” (Matthew 19:8-9, 1984 NIV)

With this statement, Jesus revealed that the way things were before sin was in the world is what God wants for us. Furthermore, because of this reason, regarding divorce, he condemned God's command (!) (in Mosaic Law) regarding the permission for men to divorce their wives. (The reason was that God was being gracious because people weren't able to accept the higher way [due to their hard hearts].) Jesus reveals that the way things were in the beginning is greater than the Law and thus was able to explain that divorce a sin. Jesus flipped the Jewish universe upside down. This was an extremely powerful statement. He was revealing that there is a higher way than God's Law. This argument is sufficient all by itself to say that polygamy is a sin, because it was not that way from the beginning. He also overrides the Law explicitly in Matthew 12:3-6, however, these are just two examples of the effect of the whole New Covenant.

It was not good that man be alone. God's solution was not to give him wives. It was to give him a single wife. (Genesis 2:18) Furthermore, the man would disconnect from his father and mother to be connected to this wife and become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24) Paul reiterated this one flesh in 1 Corinthians 6:16 and Ephesians 5:31. This is the way it was in the beginning.

Jesus reinforces this when he says “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ ... So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate. (Matthew 19:4,6, 1984 NIV) He is talking about divorce, but his reasoning applies to more than just divorce. God joined two together. The two became one. This is the way it was in the beginning (before there was sin in the world, after which God gave the Law to help us deal with sin).

(Reedited)

Merlin said:

Yes, I agree that monogamy is a better calling but the question is 'Is it okay for Christians to practice polygamy
Here you have changed the context from polygamy to divorce.

Once again, this is speaking of divorce and not polygamy.

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In order for existing polygamy to stop there would have to be divorcing of "excess" wives down to 1 wife. The simple fact is that the new testament just doesn't have polygamy in it therefore either it is WRONG (sinful) for Christians to be polygamous or it isn't a sin and we can be polygamous if we want to. If one concludes it is wrong (sin) for Christians to be polygamous then one must either consider it used to be God's will that there was polygamy and he changed his mind about it or it was man's will that there was and God allowed it until a time he decided it was no longer allowed.

ViaCrucis said:

Scripture itself says nothing one way or the other, but longstanding Christian tradition and practice has been that polygamy is not acceptable.

-CryptoLutheran

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longstanding meaning since about the 1400's