Why don't protestants bless Mary?

Infant baptism for example....An infant dos'nt know what they're being baptised for so what good is it?Do they get baptised again when older?

Open Heart said:

You say you go by scripture, but I challange you again to go by this scripture: he who listens to you listens to me.

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But you all are not teaching scripture,Christ did and those He sent out did so as well...

Luke 10:16 "He that heareth you heareth Me; and he that despiseth you despiseth Me; and he that despiseth Me despiseth Him That sent Me."

Jesus is addressing these seventy witnesses that are going out in sets of two, to teach the Word that Jesus gave them to teach. He is telling them that those people that will listen to you, would listen to Me, because you are my ministers. If they hate you and the Word you teach, they hate Me. And if they hate Me, they hate the Almighty Father that created them. So we see that when we teach the truths as it is written in His Word, it carries a lot of weight in heaven where it counts.

Teach the Word not traditions of men

Open Heart said:

Yes, we are. But we are not teaching YOUR INTERPRETATION of scripture.

Now, in that verse he is sending forth his disciples and telling them that they are speaking in his stead, so "they that listen to you, listen to me." That is the authority of the Church. It's NOT "bible only."

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Okay,what scripture says Mary was sinless?

What scripture teaches purgatory,much less that I could pay to get someone out?

Open Heart said:

Yes, we are. But we are not teaching YOUR INTERPRETATION of scripture.

Now, in that verse he is sending forth his disciples and telling them that they are speaking in his stead, so "they that listen to you, listen to me." That is the authority of the Church. It's NOT "bible only."

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Your traditions are not scripture,that's my point,we are not talking about said interpretations ,of that many can and do have differences...

That's why we have teachers of that Word....

In the end ,what are we judged by,Scripture or tradition?

Open Heart said:

And what I'm telling you is that the authority of the Church came first, before there even was a NT, Christ was giving these ambassadors the authority of his word orally. The Early Church HAD NO NEW TESTAMENT. It depended on hte Apostles first, and after they were martyred, on their successors the bishops to teach them the gospel and lead them in the ways. Most of these teachings came to be included in the Bible. Some, such as Sunday worship, were not. Eventually it was the authority of the Church that chose which books to put together into a canon of scripture -- it wasn't easy as there was disagreement over some items. But the Holy Spirit guides the Church. So today we accept such things such as Sunday worship and teh table of contents of the Bible because we accept the authority of the Church.

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The letters were already written before there was any such thing as a Catholic Church....

Who Gave Us The Bible?
By Mary Ann Collins (a former nun)

The Catholic Church claims that it gave us the Bible. Is this supported by the historical evidence?

The Old Testament was written by God's inspired prophets, patriarchs, psalmists, judges, and kings. It was faithfully copied and preserved by Jewish scribes. Modern Protestant Bibles have the same content as the Hebrew Bible.

The New Testament was written by Christian apostles. None of them were Catholics, because there was no Roman Catholic Church at the time. This was over two centuries before Constantine's "conversion".

The early Church did not have the New Testament as we know it. Rather, individuals and local congregations had portions of it. They would have one or more of the Gospels, some of the letters which Apostles had written, and perhaps the Book of Acts or the Book of Revelation.

Why weren't all of these books collected in one place? Look at what the books themselves say. Individual apostles wrote them for specific audiences. For example, the Gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts were written for Theophilus. (Luke 1:3; Acts 1:1) Most of the Epistles were written to specific churches or to specific individuals. (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 1:1; Galatians 1:2; Ephesians 1:1; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:2; 1 Thessalonians 1:1; 2 Thessalonians 1:1; 1 Timothy 1:2; 2 Timothy 1:2; Titus 1:4; Philemon 1:1; 3 John 1:1)
The early Christians expected that Jesus would return for His Church at any moment. As a result, they didn't see the need for long-term planning for future generations. Furthermore, Christians were persecuted by the Romans. When your life is in constant danger, it is difficult to collect writings which are scattered all over the Roman Empire. So it took time to collect all of these writings, decide which ones were authoritative Scripture, and make complete sets of them.

By the time of Origen (185-254 A.D.), there was general agreement about most of the New Testament. However, there was disagreement as to whether the following six epistles should be part of the New Testament canon: Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John, and Jude. This was sixty years before the conversion of Emperor Constantine. [Note 1]

The canon of the New Testament was not formed by the decision of any Church council. Rather, the Council of Carthage (397 A.D.) listed as canonical "only those books that were generally regarded by the consensus of use as properly a canon". [Note 2] In other words, it didn't create the canon. Rather, it confirmed the identity of the canon which already existed.
So the Catholic Church did not give us the Bible. However, Catholic monks helped preserve the Bible by copying it.

The Catholic Church changed the Bible. In 1548, at the Council of Trent, it added the Apocrypha to the Bible. The apocryphal books contain passages which are used to justify some Catholic doctrines, such as praying for the dead. The Apocrypha are discussed in the Appendix.

APPENDIX
The Apocrypha are books which occur in Catholic Bibles but not in Protestant ones. They were never part of the Hebrew Bible, and the Jews did not recognize them as canonical. In 1548 the Council of Trent declared that the Apocrypha are canonical (part of inspired Scripture) and it anathematized anybody who believes otherwise. [Note 3]

Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the Old Testament hundreds of times, but they never treated any of the apocryphal books as being authoritative. The apocryphal books themselves never claim to be the Word of God. The books of Tobit and Judith contain serious historical inaccuracies. [Note 4] [Note 5]

Following is a summary of the main events in the Book of Tobit. I've given links so that you can get the book on-line for yourself. [Note 6]
My references to chapters and verses are those of the Revised Standard translation of Tobit. There is a wide variation in translations of Tobit, including differences in essential matters. There are also historical and geographical inaccuracies in the Book of Tobit. For example, Sennecherib was not the son of Shalmaneser. (Tobit 1:15) He was the son of Sargon the Usurper. [Note 7]

SUMMARY OF THE BOOK OF TOBIT
One night Tobit slept outdoors, with his face uncovered. He slept by the courtyard wall. There were sparrows on the wall, and bird droppings fell into Tobit's open eyes. As a result, a white film formed over his eyes and he became blind. The physicians were unable to help him. (Tobit 2:9-10)
A maiden named Sarah was reproached by her maids, who accused her of strangling seven husbands before they consummated their marriage with her. This was attributed to a demon named Asmodeus. (Tobit 3:8)
The angel Raphael was sent to heal Tobit's eyes, and to bind the demon Asmodeus, and to give Sarah in marriage to Tobias, the son of Tobit. (Tobit 3:17)

Tobias (Tobit's son) was traveling with the angel Raphael (who appeared in the form of a Jewish man named Azarias). A fish leaped up from the river and tried to swallow Tobias. Then the angel told Tobias to catch this fish. He caught it and threw it on the land. Then the angel told Tobias to cut the fish open and to keep the heart and liver and gallbladder. He said that smoke from the heart and liver would drive demons and evil spirits away. He also said that if a man's eyes are covered with white films, then having them anointed with the fish gall would heal him. (Tobit 6:1-9)

Tobias was afraid to marry Sarah because seven husbands had died in her bridal chamber. The angel told him to take burning incense and put the heart and liver of the fish on it in order to make a smoke. He said that when the demon smelled the smoke he would flee and never return. (Tobit 6:11-17)

Tobias married Sarah. He put the heart and liver of the fish upon burning incense. When the demon smelled the odor he fled to the "remotest parts of Egypt" and the angel bound him. Tobias and Sarah went to sleep. Sarah's family was greatly relieved the next morning when both of them were still alive. (Tobit 7:1-8:14)

Tobias and his new wife went to Tobit's home. The angel Raphael told Tobias to take the fish gall with him and rub it on his father's eyes. He did, and Tobit's eyes were healed. (Tobit 11:2-16)

CONCLUSION

Does this sound like inspired Scripture to you? Does it reveal God's nature and character, and His ways of dealing with His people? Does it inspire you to want to know God better? Does it give you strength and courage to be a faithful Christian?

If this was considered to be part of the Bible, would that increase your confidence in the Word of God?

http://plaintruthmagazine.blogspot.com/2008/06/who-gave-us-bible.html

Open Heart said:

It is based on Luke 1:28, specifically the word Kecharitomene which is translated as full of grace or highly favored. It's root word is Charis, which means Grace. To be so encompassed with grace, so full of grace, she would need to have been protected from the stain of sin from conception.

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Was Mary Sinless?
by Dr. Ken Matto

One of the most common doctrines taught by the Roman Catholic Church is the tenet of the perpetual sinless state of Mary. In 1854 the Immaculate Conception of Mary was proclaimed and since then it has been taught that she was without sin. Now with any teaching of any church whether it be Catholic or Protestant, it must be held up to the scrutiny of Scripture.

The Bible is the final authority and if we are to come to truth, we must consistently compare what is being taught to see if it harmonizes with Scripture and if it doesn’t, then we are refute it and disbelieve it. God is the one who establishes truth and not a church, no matter how long they have been established on earth. Length of time is not a criteria for truth.

Judaism has been around since the 5th Century BC which would place it about 800 years older than the Roman church and still denies that the Lord Jesus Christ is both God and Messiah. Let us attend to the words of Holy Scripture to test the teaching of the sinless state or perfection of Mary.


Was Mary Sinless?

When we look at the genealogy of Christ in Luke 3, which is the genealogy from Mary’s side, we see that God takes Mary’s genealogy all the way back to Adam which means she, like every human being, was a descendant of Adam which carries the sinful Adamic nature. Does the Bible bear this out? Let us see how many (pre-salvific) righteous people there are in the world.
(Rom 3:23 KJV) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Notice the term which God uses in this verse, "all have sinned." God is not saying some or a few or even the majority, He is definite in His usage of "ALL." This means that Mary was part of that "all." Below in 1 John 3:4 we see the biblical definition of sin which is the transgression of God’s law. There is no division of sin into either venial or mortal classifications but only one class and that is sin. (James 2:10 KJV) For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Since Mary was part of the human race at that time, she was guilty of sin as every other human being was.

(1 John 3:4 KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Since Mary was born before Jesus (obviously) we should also look for confirmation of the fact of universal sin and how everyone is affected by it, no matter who we are.

(1 Ki 8:46 KJV) If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

Here we see this verse included in a passage of Scripture detailing Solomon’s dedication of the temple which puts this verse about 900 years before Mary’s birth. God is also detailing the fact that there is not one who does not sin.

(Psa 14:1-3 KJV) The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. {2} The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. {3} They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

See also Psalm 53:1-3
Here we have Psalm 14 which is another OT proof that God’s assessment of all humans is the same, that there is none that does any good or no one which does not sin. The Bible has a uniformity on this matter doesn’t it?
(Psa 58:3-4 KJV) The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. {4} Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;
Here is a verse which details when human beings start to sin. It informs us that we begin to sin as soon as we are born. This means that Mary did not have an immaculate conception, rather, she was subject to the same sinful nature everyone else was and that right from the womb.

(Rom 3:10-20 KJV) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: {11} There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. {12} They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. {13} Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: {14} Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: {15} Their feet are swift to shed blood: {16} Destruction and misery are in their ways: {17} And the way of peace have they not known: {18} There is no fear of God before their eyes. {19} Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. {20} Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Here is probably the most succinct description of the entire pre-salvific human being. God takes the quotes from Psalm 14 & 53 and brings it into the New Testament because He wants to show that just because we live on the New Testament side of the cross does not mean we are exempt from sin and its catastrophic effects. God re-emphasizes the fact of universal sin but also includes how heinous that sins makes a person in His sight and why salvation is needed so badly. People who think they are good in God’s sight are brought back to reality when they read this revealing passage. Mary too was part of this description of the human race since she was part of the human race.

(Gal 3:22 KJV) But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
We will take this verse as our final verse in this section showing that the entire human race was plunged into sin because of Adam’s sin. This verse does not reveal any exceptions to the universality of sin.


Mary Needed A Savior!
(Luke 1:47 KJV) And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
Here is an extremely revealing verse taken from her magnificat. If Mary was born without sin, then she would have been able to fulfill the demands of God’s holy law without the benefit of a substitutionary atonement. In essence, she would have no sin and therefore would be perfect before God. That is not what the Scriptures are teaching, they are telling us that Mary needed a Savior which means she was under the curse of sin with the rest of the world and had to be atoned for before she could even consider going to Heaven, never mind, carry the Lord Jesus from a Holy Spirit conception.


Mary is not a mediatrix!

(1 Tim 2:5 KJV) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Those in the Roman Catholic Church teach that Mary is a mediator between Jesus and us. This teaching is erroneous because the Bible teaches that Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and man. The Bible does not teach anywhere that the redeemed of God in Heaven have any intercessory authority or ministry for those still remaining on earth.


Mary Was not a Perpetual Virgin
!
(Mark 6:1-3 KJV) And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him. {2} And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? {3} Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

(Mat 13:54-56 KJV) And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? {55} Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? {56} And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

Another teaching which the Roman Church teaches is that Mary remained a perpetual virgin. The Bible refutes this in the two passages which I have listed here. The Bible teaches that Jesus had brothers and sisters, and if Mary was the mother of Jesus, then these men and women named in these Scriptures were from the same woman, namely Mary. Notice how God specifically names Mary as their mother. The perpetual virginity of Mary is a fallacy which does not exist in history nor the Bible. If someone chooses to believe in the perpetual virginity of Mary, they must do so in opposition of Scripture, a dangerous place to be.

“And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” Here they extolling Jesus’ mother (as the Catholic Church does today), notice what Jesus’ reaction is v.28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” (Luke 11:27-28). The WORD of God was what Jesus said was more important, even than His earthly mother.

In the Catholic translation of the Bible ( Douay Rheims) it reads in Luke 1:28 “ the angel said to her: Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee.” Unanimously in all the other translations which are from the Greek, not the Latin. They instead say, “ Rejoice, highly favored one the Lord is with you, blessed are you among women.” At first we notice she is blessed among women not exalted above them. She is chosen in preference to all the women upon earth, not men. The word for grace is what is being disputed. Roman Catholics state that this grace is a special measure to Mary only, but this does not fit the Biblical record. This word in the Greek is Kechari tomene (a perfect participle in the verb form, an omega verb) it means the one who God has graced, to give undue favor; only sinful people need God's grace.

She is being chosen in preference to all the women upon earth, favoured above all the daughters of the house of David to be the mother of the Messiah in the flesh. This refers to one who is a recipient of God's favor, not the source of grace. This word for grace is from the root word Charitoo in Ephesians 1:6 it is also used of the believers in that church, “graced us.” A. T. Robertson, the Greek scholar states it is a late verb charitoo (from charis, grace), in the New Testament attracted to case of antecedent charitos only here and Luke 1:28 (Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament).

n2thelight said:

Christ is the Word,that's who we should listen to

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Amen. That's why I believe in venerating the woman who conceived Him with the Holy Spirit.

Open Heart said:

It IS the same thing. You are disparaging Christ's Church, the very Church he established and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against, to whom he said , He who listens to you listens to me, this Church which is guided by the Holy Spirit which shall lead to all truth... you want to put THAT on par with the teachings of ordinary men? The insult is to Christ himself to whom the Church belongs.

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Yes, that is right. The Church teaches the Word of God about our Lady and about everything.

Grafted In said:

That amounts to idolitry.

Why do people of the Catholic faith continue to start threads that seem to be nothing more than badgering protestants about Mary. I think you just like to argue and use the wild card "oral traditions " to justify your bazaar doctrines.
Some of you (not all or most) spend more time trying to ram silly "doctrines" regarding Mary down the throats of protestants than anything else.
Why the obsession with Mary? Is that the extent of your faith? Do you ever read Scripture? If so your posts do not reflect it.

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The wild card that you have mentioned is Scripture and not something made up so I would suggest that you read Scripture

n2thelight said:

“And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!” Here they extolling Jesus’ mother (as the Catholic Church does today), notice what Jesus’ reaction is v.28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” (Luke 11:27-28). The WORD of God was what Jesus said was more important, even than His earthly mother.

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The Greek word translates as "More than that" can also be translated as "Yes truly", as it is in Philippians 3:8, I believe. Jesus is affirming that Mary--and all those who receive the Word of God like her--are truly blessed. He is affirming that the everyone can participate in God's grace like Mary.

In Luke 1, Mary is repeatedly called "blessed". The Holy Spirit even speaks through Elizabeth saying, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!" Luke 1:42.

The Mother of God and God the Son are both called "blessed" in the same sentence, because they are both sinless and are the New Eve and the New Adam.