Why did God ceate such a cruel world?

Gumph said:

St_Worm2 said:

As a point in fact, the product "design" was perfect according to the Bible (Genesis 1:27; Genesis 1:31; Ecclesiastes 7:29), so starting over would not eliminate the problem. That brings us to the burning question that no one can answer (at least, not on this side of Glory anyway), since there was no flaw in product line, why didn't it work the way it was supposed to

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Thank you, that perplexes me too.

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FYI: It is based on a false premise. There was an obvious flaw, that is 'inexperience'. A famous statement regarding wisdom: "those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past, are doomed to repeat them".

Gumph said:

We would not be any the wiser.

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That was the problem in the first place!

Gumph said:

I am hoping that a world with apparently random pain and cruelty was not what he had in mind, nor one where evil deeds of some cause pain and suffering to millions of others who do their best to be good.

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It just seems to me, that you're stuck in this idea that God wanted the world to be this way.

Gumph said:

How does creating a world with pain and suffering, result in a world redeemed of sin?

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It first of all, was not full of pain and suffering, according to the facts in the story. Secondary, when people refuse to obey what they are told, and then they discover the consequences of the disobedience, then they will be twice as willing to obey next time. The plan includes that "soon", all who are determined to disobey are removed whereas all who are inclined to obedience are kept, and in that way the world become full of people who live God's way and we also have experience why it is best to do so. That experience is what Adam and Eve did not have. Experience is always associated with wisdom.

Gumph said:

Is there no other way?

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Probably not eh, considering the human's determination to do whatever they choose to do. But sure, my imagination is not that powerful.

Gumph said:

How about, don't create cruel and painful diseases that attack indiscriminately in the first place?

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I don't know much about disease. What I know about disease is that the immune system should be able to cope with it. I've always thought that an immune system that can't cope with disease must be somewhat compromised - perhaps by lifestyle factors, or inherited genetic damage. What do you reckon about this? If you were to consider that Adam and Eve were given perfect immune systems, and they had eaten the perfectly organic diet, lived in a pure environment, they would naturally resist disease perfectly? Do you think that these conditions should have been passed along all generations without fault?.

Gumph said:

I'm not really sure what they consider.

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It's a long way from having no idea though. Do you speak to animals?

Gumph said:

I'm asking why God created a world with natural disasters, that cause pain and suffering indiscriminately.

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What is a natural disaster?

Earthquakes, Storms, Droughts, Volcanoes, Floods, Asteroids, Fires.

In these examples, storms floods, droughts and fires are a category of extremes where human activity could mitigate their effects and with proper management of the planet, could be entirely eliminated; whereas earthquakes, volcanoes and asteroids are those which cannot be prevented, they can only be detected and avoided.

That is to say, that God has also created us to be capable of coping with natural disasters.

Now that I have come to address your question - why make the world like this? - then I can see it is all just elementary to life: earthquakes and volcanoes are a result of superheated rock moving beneath the earth's crust, which is abrasive and when finds a critical weakness, causes the crust to break. Heat is a result of the sun, and the pressure of gravity (I think - as a layman), both of which are necessary for life on this planet. Storms etc are all to do with heat again, and the distrbution of water throughout the globe. I think we should be grateful that He did design it this way, TBH.

This has of course avoided the discussion of nuclear meltdowns - would you like to address that too?

linda1978 said:

Maybe we should seek the way to live in God's blessings rather than sins. As the following words:
"I have done much work among man, and the words I have expressed during this time have been many. These words are for the sake of man’s salvation, and were expressed so that man might become compatible with Me. Yet I have gained only a few people on earth who are compatible with Me, and so I say that man does not treasure My words, for man is not compatible with Me. In this way, the work I do is not merely so that man can worship Me; more importantly, it is so that man can be compatible with Me. People, who have been corrupted, all live in Satan’s trap, they live in the flesh, live in selfish desires, and there is not a single one among them who is compatible with Me. There are those who say that they are compatible with Me, but who all worship vague idols. Although they acknowledge My name as holy, they tread a path that runs contrary to Me, and their words are full of arrogance and self-confidence, because, at root, they are all against Me, and incompatible with Me. Every day they seek traces of Me in the Bible, and find “suitable” passages at random that they read endlessly, and which they recite as “Scripture.” They do not know how to be compatible with Me, do not know what it means to be in enmity of Me, and merely read “Scripture” blindly. They constrain within the Bible a vague god that they have never seen, and are incapable of seeing, and take it out to look at during their spare time. They believe in Me only within the scope of the Bible. For them, I am the same as the Bible; without the “Bible” there is no “Me,” and without “Me” there is no “Bible.” They pay no heed to My existence or actions, but instead devote extreme and especial attention to each and every word of Scripture, and many of them even believe that I should not do anything I wish to do unless it is foretold by Scripture. They attach too much importance to Scripture. It can be said that they see words and expressions as too important, to the extent that they use verses from the Bible to measure every word I say, and to condemn Me. What they seek is not the way of compatibility with Me, or the way of compatibility with the truth, but the way of compatibility with the words of the Bible, and they believe that anything that does not conform to the Bible is, without exception, not My work. Are such people not the dutiful descendants of the Pharisees? The Jewish Pharisees used the law of Moses to condemn Jesus. They did not seek compatibility with the Jesus of that time, but diligently followed the law to the letter, to the extent that they ultimately nailed the innocent Jesus to the cross, having charged Him with not following the law of the Old Testament and not being the Messiah. What was their essence? Was it not that they didn’t seek the way of compatibility with the truth? They obsessed over each and every word of the “Scripture,” while paying no heed to My will and the steps and methods of My work. They were not people who sought the truth, but people who rigidly followed the words of Scripture; they were not people who believed in God, but people who believed in the Bible. In fact, they were watchdogs of the Bible. In order to safeguard the interests of the Bible, and uphold the dignity of the Bible, and protect the reputation of the Bible, they went so far as to nail the merciful Jesus onto the cross. This they did merely for the sake of defending the Bible, and for the sake of maintaining the status of each and every word of the Bible in people’s hearts. So they preferred to forsake their future and the sin offering to condemn to death Jesus who did not conform to the doctrine of Scripture. Were they not lackeys to each and every word of Scripture?" (from the words appears in the flesh)

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Hi linda1978, first off, I see you are still pretty new here, so WELCOME TO CF ..

Please tell us what the words you posited for us above are excerpted from, and who wrote them. Also, who is the "I" and/or the "Me" in the article, IOW, who is supposed to be speaking in the first person above?

Thanks!

Yours and His,
David

Gumph said:

So we must pay for the sins of others?

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Who are you n what are you? You have a diversity of functions in unity.... Unity doesn't necessarily mean uniformity.... You are spiritual man unknown to yourself by the fall of mans innocence.... You n I are no longer connected to our first love, creator or father....

Hi Linda, Jesus told us about His return in several places in the Bible, and what He has to say is very important for us to understand for several reasons.

Matthew 24 is one of the places He discusses the end times. It opens with Jesus talking about a future event concerning the Temple which then prompts His disciples to ask Him, "what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” (Matthew 24:3).

He begins His answer to them with a warning

That, of course, is bad news, but the good news for us is that He doesn't leave us "hanging" He tells us about these "false" Christs, how to recognize them, and how we can know that their claims are lies. For instance, He tells us that His return will be preceded by certain, very recognizable signs that must come first (I'll let you read about those for yourself later. Again, this can all be found in Matthew 24).

But of all the signs He gives us concerning His return, here is one easy to remember sign that you cannot miss Jesus tells us:


This final sign of the Lord's return to us in Matthew 24 is significant because He tells us that when He does return, NO ONE will be unaware of the fact .. It will be like lightning is, meaning that EVERYONE, not just Christians, will know when it happens. So if someone tells you that He has returned and can be found, "here, there or anywhere", DO NOT BELIEVE THEM, because His return will be clear to everyone at the same time, just like everyone knows when a thunder storm is approaching.

To make this a little more personal, if you ever read something on the internet claiming that He has returned, do not believe it, because He has already told you that you will know, w/o a doubt, when He actually returns. You won't have to read about it or have anyone tell you about it, YOU WILL KNOW IT for yourself (as will everyone else).

Even w/o that knowledge however, just a cursory reading of the article you posted gives us a number of additional clues that it could not have been written by the Lord Himself, but instead, by someone 'posing' as Him A couple of those clues are as follows:


It's also important to understand that there is no being in existence who would like to see Christians forsake (or at least misunderstand) what the Bible says more than Satan would Satan, in fact, intentionally used the word of God incorrectly in his three temptations of the Lord (read Matthew 4:1-10). And what was the Lord's response to him each time? You guessed it (plus I just mentioned it above ), He said, "IT IS WRITTEN". Jesus used the Bible to rebuke Satan's temptations (and He also corrected Satan's misuse of the Holy Scriptures at the same time).

I'm sorry for the essay here, but you need to understand what Jesus actually said so that you can recognize articles like the one you posited for us as completely and utterly false (and also understand what "spirit" is actually behind the writing of such rubbish).

The correct understanding and application of the word of God leads us to salvation (see John 5:24; Romans 1:16), and it tells us how to recognize and guard ourselves against the attacks of the evil one (Satan) .. i.e. Ephesians 6:10-17.

I hope you found this helpful and again, I'm sorry for writing such a long reply, but this stuff is EXTREMELY important for you to know and understand as a Christian (because false "Christs" and false teachers are talked about throughout the New Testament, and we are admonished to be well aware of their existence, and commanded to know how to recognize them and deal with their lies .. )

Blessings to you in Christ,
David

linda1978 said:

I found a website with a casual click. Some words are really strict and powerful. It is said that Lord Jesus has come back in flesh...

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Hi again Linda, I'm sorry that you've found yourself distracted momentarily, but actually, considering how important knowing and understanding the truth is in this particular case, I would recommend continuing to question/study all these things until you find out what is true AND what is not.

One thing is clear, the folks who built and maintain these two websites believe and teach something that is VERY different from the Bible and/or what the church has believed and taught for the last 2,000 years (and by the "church", I mean ALL of us together, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Baptist, etc.). You are free to believe whatever you wish, of course, but when there are subjects that the entire church agrees upon (and has done so from every corner of the planet for more than two millennia), it is always worth taking note of

To put it in the simplest terms, you need to decide who's right, the Bible and the church, or these guys, because they are preaching a "different Gospel" than the Bible (or the church) does, and we can't both be right

Yours and His,
David
p.s. - one of the wonderful things about the Lord is that He didn't leave us to fend for ourselves, so to speak. He gave us the Bible, the church and He sent us the Holy Spirit to teach and guide us, so we would not have so much to wonder or worry about in this life (like false Christs and false teachers), but rather, could freely and with great assurance "contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" (Jude 3).

Hi Linda, the Bible, save the 10 Commandments that were written on stone tablets by the finger of God (Exodus 31:18), and the four word condemnation given to the Chaldean King, Belshazzar, in Daniel 5, was written down by men. Nevertheless, we hold the words of the Bible, both OT & NT, to be the θεόπνευστος (theopneustos)/"inspired" or, literally, "breathed" words of God (2 Timothy 3:16).

IOW, the words in the Bible are "God's" words, in much the same way that the words we speak are "our" words. Men wrote His words down, but He is the Author of the Bible, all of it! And it's God's 'words' that are inspired, the men who wrote them down are not. That's also why we call the Bible, "The Word of God", or the "Holy Scriptures", not "The words about God" or "The scriptures about a Holy God".

In this case (Matthew 24), we have the Lord Jesus speaking to us in the first person, telling us about the things to come and what the "signs" of the end times will be (the most important sign of all being that none of us will be unaware of His return to this earth). IOW, no one is going to have to inform anyone about else that He's returned because all of us will know when He does.

Here are Jesus' own words written to you, "if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him." (Matthew 24:23).

So if someone has to tell you He's returned, you can know with absolute certainty that He has not done so yet, and that the people who are telling you that He has returned are not telling you the truth (they have been deceived and/or they have deceived themselves)!

Do not join them in this deception!!

As for the rest of the Bible, whether it was written by Moses, Jeremiah, King David, Matthew, Mark, Paul or Peter, etc., and whether it is God/Jesus speaking to us in the first person or not, the words you find there are ALL θεόπνευστος ("God-Breathed"). That's why we can trust the Bible, all of it , to be exactly what we consider it to be, our regula fidei ("rule of faith") by which we judge all things. In other words, if something contradicts what the Bible clearly teaches us, we can be sure that it is a lie or a deception that should be avoided.

Sadly, this appears to be exactly what's happening in the case of The Church of Almighty God, and why you need to understand that it is a cult and is not teaching you the truth. Rather, they oppose the truth about God that is found/taught in the Bible, and that is therefore, taught by the church. You should be praying for them to find the truth, you should not consider following or joining them!

I hope that helps a bit.

Yours in Christ,
David
p.s. - I talked to one of my friends who is a missionary just returned from China (where he was principally a Bible teacher to the people he served there). He told me that there are many "homegrown cults" sprouting up in China right now, and that they are very dangerous (and he urges you to flee from this one).

A lot of people have already said that the suffering comes from the fall in the garden of eden. I just wanted to say as Christians we are told to rejoice in our sufferings, as it produces endurance, character, and hope, Romans 5:3-5. Suffering also produces steadfastness, James 1:2-4. We are told that after our suffering that God will restore, confirm, strengthen and establish his followers, 1 Peter 5:10. In James 1:12, we are told that those who endure the suffering will receive a crown of life.

Gumph said:

Does the apparently random cruelty dished out to probably innocent victims also come from the fall in the garden of Eden?

How does suffering from cancer, drowning in a tsunami, being crushed in an earthquake or burnt in larva " restore, confirm, strengthen and establish his followers" ?

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I think it does come from the fall in the garden of Eden. I'm not really sure how exactly it does that, but my guess is that through suffering we can sometimes become better people, not that I would really know, since I haven't suffered really.

Gumph said:

How does this explain natural cruelty?



Not sure what you are saying: How is the child killed in a South American mudslide not an individual?



I apologise, but I have no idea what you are trying to say here. How does this explain random natural cruelty?

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You do ask a good question that everyone asks sometime in their life, so God addresses this question first off with the story of Adam and Eve the third chapter of the book. Adam and Eve had the world you might think you want (Please! do not get the idea it is all Adam and Eve’s fault. They are just the best representatives the human race could have showing us that the wonderful Garden of Eden situation is a lousy place for a human to fulfill his earthly objective)


The story of Adam and Eve (Gen 3)(you do not have to believe it is true to get the message) is told very early, because all individuals ask the question: “Why would a truly Loving God not put us all in a Garden type situation?” The story of A&E explains why we are in our situation:

1. God desires that we all be in a Garden type situation, but God quenches His own desire to provide a better situation for us to fulfill our earthly objective.
   
   
2. Our earthly object is not to “worship God”, run around free, just don’t sin, or be good. God does not need anything from us, but is just trying to give something to us. God is trying to give us the greatest power in all universes; the power that compels God to do all He does, but that power cannot be forced on us (take it or I torture you) or can it be instinctive to man (robotically programmed in humans). It is a gift from God that is totally undeserved and unconditional (so it is Charity), but man has to accept the gift as it was given. Humans, instinctive to survival, (which is good for man to have) do not like to take charity especially if it comes at a huge cost to the giver.
   
   
3. The gift is Godly type Love which is best defined by Christ’s words and deeds. God will do all he can to help those that are willing to accept His help, fulfill their earthly objective of accepting His Love and growing that Love. Included in all that God will do and allow to happen are: Christ going to the cross, satan roaming the earth, sin, hell and tragedies of all kinds.
   
   
4. First off; death is the way good people get to go home and the way bad people stop doing bad stuff.
   
   
5. It is truly unfortunate and not God’s desire that tragedies have to occur. God has to quench His desire to allow tragedies, for man’s sake to help humans accept Love. People have to see, experience, witness, receive and even give Godly type Love, before they will even understand and desire such a Love. Some even after receiving Godly type Love from an individual just like themselves will not want it or explain it away (the person is just trying to gain respect or earn their way to heaven or they are making up for the bad they have done).
   
   
6. Everyone on earth is needy, because everyone has hurt others (sinned) and should feel the burden of the sin. Their creator is trying to give them Love in the form of forgiveness so they will Love (…he that is forgiven much will Love much…)
   
   
7. There are a huge amount of sever tragedies in this world, but they are really opportunities for good people to show, give, experience and witness Godly type Love. With all those tragedies some good people are still not responding, so are more needed? It is not our job to provide tragedies, but to solve, reduce, eliminate all we can, by allowing the Spirit to work through us.
   
   
8. Scripture tells us the needy will be with us always on this earth. Christ did not “heal” all those that were sick, but used those around Him to express Godly Love and show us how we are to handle tragedies (serve others with Love). Healing everyone without the witness of Godly type Love being seen in serving individual like any other person would not get people to accept God’s Love in faith and humility.
   
   
9. This world is not our Home and our rest comes later. It is both a privilege and Honor to allow the Holy Spirit to work through us in serving others in this world to best help everyone around us to accept God’s Love.
   
   
10. If you had to find the most Christ Like person in the world today, where would you look?
    

I see Jesus explaining it in John 9: 1-7.

In John 9: 1-7 you have a tragedy (the apostles are asking about a specific tragedy, but they do not know this individual and are thinking in general terms [you need to get into their head]).

Jesus does not say: “this tragedy was caused by: Adam/Eve sinning, Satan, sin, bad luck, God or evil in the world (those have been our answers).”

Jesus does not say: “It was because of the bad that happened”, but does say: “This is for the good that can (and in this case will) happen.”

If you have lived for very long, you have seen good come from some tragedies, but why not all tragedies?

Is someone keeping good from coming from every tragedy?

Everything that is happening in the world right now (disease, natural disasters, and tragedies of all kinds) are not the result of the bad that has happened, but is the result of the GOOD that can happen!

God is quenching His desire to have us all in a Garden type situation to help us fulfill our objective.

Everything starts and ends with the objective;


The objective of humans is to: “Love God (and secondly others) with all your heart, soul, mind, and energy and Love others.” The definition of “Love” is key for it is not instinctive or just emotional but it is Love of your enemies, described by Jesus’ life and Paul in 1 Cor. 13 and by John. It requires a free will moral decision to Love over likely alternatives (the perceived pleasures of sin for a season). The fall was tragic and not God’s desire, but may have been both inevitable and necessary. For all humans since the fall that have come to Love God started out by accepting God’s Love in the form of forgiveness.

Needy people create opportunities to experience, see, accept, express and receive Godly type Love. Everyone needs the full opportunity to accept Godly type Love which may have to be done when the person reaches the bottom like the prodigal son.

Death is the way bad people stop doing bad stuff and the way good people get to be in a close paradise situation with God.

The innocent that died as the result of God’s action may not really suffer as far as we know.

linda1978 said:

Hi, David, thanks again. But we all know that China is a country with no freedom for practicing the religion and the government could trap and make a rumor anybody or anything they want. I'm doing a research about the "false Christ" and the Almighty Church from China. I'm very interested in "His" words. Because Lord Jesus told us:" Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged...Matthew 7:1-5

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Hi Linda, understanding what the Lord is actually saying in a particular verse or passage is vital. For instance, while Matthew 7:1 says, "Do not judge", in Matthew 7:6, Jesus says: “Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

Jesus, concerning the judgement of others also says: “If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." Matthew 18:15-17

Or from Matthew 24, Jesus says: "If anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." Matthew 24:23-24

Jesus also tells us: “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24

So, why do you believe Jesus says, "do not judge", in Matthew 7:1, but then just 5 verses later in Matthew 7:6 (as well MANY other places in the Bible) tells us that we must "judge" others

I'll stop here and wait for your response to that question before continuing.

Yours and His,
David

Gumph said:

Then is there not another flaw - we seem to be really bad at learning from the experiences of others?

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I wonder why. What do you think about that? I'm rather pressing to see a different problem, that being some people never want to learn anyway, for various reasons. If we are to consider that the reason the fall was permitted was to prove that God's way is best, then there's two classes of people: those who come to agree, and those who don't care enough.

Gumph said:

The problem does not seem to have been solved by using this method either.

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Why have you said this? Are you choosing to not acknowledge the many people who have learned that God's way is best?

Gumph said:

Yes perhaps I am. I am under the impression that he had total control over the creation, and so if its turned out in a way he didn't want or expect, than that would undermine his supposed power and ability (IMO).

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This is something I tend to agree with. There are some things that just aren't possible in this sort of world. In this example, He has created humans to be freewill agents, to enjoy the creation and to rule over it as gods (in His likeness). Yet, in this world where the stronger can take from the weaker, how can it be possible that every such person will sacrifice their own desires so that others can have a necessary level of comfort? That's actually the problem. Though He seems to have known, and has seemed to have since found, that some people are the type who He is pleased with. Jesus earned acknowledgement as the one who achieved this perfectly to the full. It is why in Jesus Christ there is hope that mankind that submits to His rulership can be redeemed from sin. This is why Christianity states that Jesus has been given all authority in heaven and earth - because He is perfectly submissive to God. We relate to Him as a human king, and He advocates to God for us.

Keep in mind too, that God hates unrighteousness and the harm brought upon all who suffer. Consider this: that if God grieves with every person who grieves, grieving as the only one who is able to love perfectly.. Do you think there is anyone who has made more sacrifice than He has? What is the consequence of this realisation? That all of the world's suffering and God's grief over it, is for the sake of the redeemed world. This sinks in only partially on the basis of hope for the time being, but when the time comes for it to be fully realised, then we can see how much of a sacrifice is made for us. Then the world will have that wisdom that has been mentioned, that will have redeemed it from sin and will have caused sin to lose it's power. The world would never again be tempted toward sin.

This is why the gift of life by grace has power over the curse of death from sin, because the grace of God in Christ Jesus has power to resurrect the ones who are perishing as sinners - that receiving the gift of salvation, He will restore us to righteousness (that is what He wants to do, if we will accept His vision for us and comply with His instruction), and in this way we have learned why obedience is best - yet we have not had any freedom to choose taken from us!

Gumph said:

There is currently a lot of pain and suffering. Full is probably an unnecessary hyperbole. So is all this pain and suffering a form of punishment for sins?

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It probably is a consequence of sin in every case - what do you reckon? I would not suggest that God causes this pain and suffering to punish sin.

Gumph said:

As I have said before, I can relate to punishment for crime / sin / etc. I cannot yet understand why seemingly innocent victims fall prey to pain and suffering. Why is this allowed?

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Can you give an example of what happened and what you suppose God should have done differently?

Gumph said:

Why create something that will attack weak immune systems in the first place?

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I need an example for this. I don't know much about disease, so I will have to look into it before I can offer perspective, to search for possible wisdom. You could help me get started too, if you have that knowledge.

Gumph said:

It is difficult to answer your questions here, because they require me to have a better idea of what God is trying to do, and unfortunately I currently understand very little. Any answer would be pure guess work.

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It seems to me that God wants what He envisaged in the first place: a beautiful paradise earth, where the human can stroll, freely eating fruits and herbs, ruling the place, tending it like a garden and subduing it. Walking with God daily, having access to the tree of life so that we can live forever with Him in paradise. You can read this in Revelation 21.

Gumph said:

Again, I could guess, but what is the point in that.

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To get to know what they are like, what they like, how they think. This would give you understanding, and perhaps you would see that they too are in serious need of spiritual guidance.

Gumph said:

Which we don't seem to be doing too well.

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It isn't really the priority, is it?

Gumph said:

Why are they even necessary?

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Well, water needs to be desalinated and moved to higher altitudes, so that is why it is necessary. But I don't think it is necessary for it to be so imbalanced:

"Tragically, the biological resources and productivity of millions of acres of land are lost to desertification each year because people remain unaware of strategies and techniques that could improve yields, reduce risk, and begin healing the world's deserts."

http://www.islandpress.org/book/a-guide-for-desert-and-dryland-restoration

Gumph said:

Are the victims often not people who have absolutely no control over their prevention or avoidance?

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Yes we are.

Gumph said:

Does this not open him up to criticism in a scenario where a young innocent child starves to death in a drought ravaged part of Africa because of the sins of his mother and the evil corporates across the world hacking down the rain forests? A bit dramatic I agree, but I think it gets the point across?

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Possibly. Would you like to have a go at criticising Him for this?

Gumph said:

You have explained how the natural disasters occur, but why not just create a stable world. What possible purpose does this world with shifting land masses and dangerous build ups of heat have?

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I am not sure you aren't asking for the impossible. Can you describe how it can be possible for earth to not have shifting land masses and dangerous build ups of heat?

Gumph said:

He could well have made it worse I suppose, but I'm not sure why we should be grateful that there are natural disasters.

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Job 38:22-23 might be useful for that.

Gumph said:

No not really, that will probably be answered by free will. Similar answer to war and crime. In this thread I am more interested in the God created cruelty.

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You've also been putting lots of effort toward removing resposibility from humankind. What if humankind was instead subservient to Him and living for His good pleasure - how much of your complaint would you expect to be such a problem in that scenario, and why?