Salvation

Bluelion said:

you must surrender to God.

Click to expand...

Robert Lindstrom said:

I would have to disagree with that. JESUS has said :
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Click to expand...

Robert Lindstrom said:

So your saying Paul an apostle went around contradicting himself by preaching that the works of the Law will not save you but then preaches that water baptism will save you? If water baptism is of works of the law or flesh or whatever you call it then Paul busted hell wide open.

He then just built back up what he just destroyed making himself a transgressor.

Gal_2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

Saul was was then later Paul saw JESUS on the Damascus road. He was instructed as to what to do and was told what he was going to be doing for the rest of his life here on earth. He was blinded and then healed. Still his sins were NOT washed away. Why?

I mean come on, we are talking about Paul here. If there was anyone who should have had been forgiven it was him. Nope. Take a look at this verse.

Act 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Paul had to be baptized in water by calling on the name of the Lord JESUS for the sins to be washed away????

That's correct. People want to do everything they can to avoid putting on Christ.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

You take on the name JESUS at baptism. No one wants to do that though.

Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Some people think JESUS said He that believeth and is saved shall be baptized as some second work of grace.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Repent and be baptized for the second work of grace. No for the remission of your sins. Plain as day.

There were some that have received the Holy Ghost at one time in this next scripture and were not baptized though.

Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

The next verse Peter just suggested them to be baptized right?

Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

No he COMMANDED them to be baptized.

Here is another one.

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

These people that Paul have ran into heard of the doctrine of John's baptism unto repentance from Apollos the silver mouth preacher. Apparently the Holy Ghost would not fall on them.

Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

John's baptism did not take away sin because it was only for repentance. Notice they were baptized in the name of the Lord JESUS. Then Paul layed hands on them and the Holy Ghost fell on them.

All baptists do the same thing. They are doing John's baptism unto repentance and are not taking on the name JESUS.

People tend to believe that water baptism is some sort of works of the law. It has nothing to do with the works of the law.

Col_2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Notice as we go down in the watery grave being baptized in His name, we are buried with Him and as we come out of that water, we are raised through the FAITH of the operation of God.

It is by our FAITH that this is done, not by our works.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

What kind of operation does God do on us?

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

As we go down in the water calling on His name, He does an operation by circumcising our heart which is our spirit and cuts off the foreskin of our heart which is the spirit which has the body of the sins of the flesh.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

After we have done that, we are now spiritual jews with the spiritual circumcision of the heart.

And as we then receive the Holy Ghost, we then are truely born of the water "water baptism" and of the spirit "receiving the Holy Ghost".

What about the thief on the cross though?

We might as well include all of the ones in the old testament as well because they were not baptized in the name of JESUS Christ for the remission of their sins as well.
David, Job, Abraham, Daniel, and many others.

What happened with Enoch? Did he get to heaven?

Gen 5:23-24 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Someone said: God took Enoch because he walked with God. So he had to have made it to heaven.

How about Elijah as well? Did he get into heaven? Someone said: he sure did for he rode a chariot of fire and went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Notice that Elijah was never seen again after this.

2Ki 2:15-18 And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him. And they said unto him, Behold now, there be with thy servants fifty strong men; let them go, we pray thee, and seek thy master: lest peradventure the Spirit of the LORD hath taken him up, and cast him upon some mountain, or into some valley. And he said, Ye shall not send. And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not. And when they came again to him, (for he tarried at Jericho,) he said unto them, Did I not say unto you, Go not?

Notice that the sons of the prophets went to search for him and did not find him. They knew Elijah was going to depart from Elisha that day.

Did Elijah go up into heaven?

Take a look at these scriptures and decide for yourself.

About ten years after Elijah had went up into heaven in a chariot and disappeared, Jehoram rebelled against God. As you see below a letter written by Elijah showed up ten years after he had disappeared.

2Ch 21:12-15 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah, But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself: Behold, with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day.

Did Elijah truly ascend up to heaven?
Did Enoch also ascend?

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

No man has ascended up to heaven? But in 2 Kings 2:11 ....Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

The scriptures seem to contradict themselves. To the natural man, it will be contradictory.

2Co_12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Elijah was caught up to the first heaven, not the third heaven.

Elijah and Enoch and the rest all died in faith not receiving the promise.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

These all died in faith!

Where did they all go then?

Luk 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

As you see Paradise lies in the center of the earth next to hell and has a great gulf between them. Why couldn't they enter heaven yet? Because JESUS has not yet at that time died for every man yet.

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Why is it so important for JESUS to descend down in the heart of the earth? Why doesn't He just pop them out like popcorn into heaven? Why go down there Himself????

Because they have to believe the same way we believe. Who is going to tell them? JESUS is.

Rom_10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?


1Pe 3:18-22 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him

He went down into paradise and preached unto the spirits in prison!!! What did He preach?

Repentance, baptism in JESUS name and receiving the Holy Ghost! They had to hear the Word and believe this revelation otherwise they would have not been forgiven and they would have been damned from going to heaven. They like us had to hear the Word and believe it.

Otherwise why did He have to preach to them for?

1Pe 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The old testament has a lot of like figures in it. eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Not just taking a bath but an answer of a good conscience towards God. Baptism does now save us.


Someone said: I cried crocodile tears..

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Godly sorrow is NOT salvation...it works repentance TO salvation but it is NOT salvation.

What is repentance? It means quite simply......I went one way and now I turn to go another way.
You don't have to cry crocodile tears to repent. Repent is...I will live this Word of God to the fullest. I will do whatever it says.

If it is saying to get baptized in buttermilk...I will go get baptized in buttermilk.
.

Act 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

For this promise is unto you, and your children, and to ALL that are afar off, EVEN AS MANY AS THE LORD SHALL CALL!

How is it that the church world has disannulled water baptism in the Name of JESUS Christ I will never know.

Click to expand...