Evangelicals: Are billions of people going to burn in hell?

John 1:1 GodCZU

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Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Psalm 51:5
I thought that would be the scripture you'd refer to.
That does not pertain to all people. The Psalms are the songs of King David. King David was speaking solely of his own conception when his mother had an affair and it was then that she did conceive him.
 
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ron4shua

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What verse says man is sinful from conception?

http://biblehub.com/isr/isaiah/48.htm

1“Hear this, O house of Ya‛aqoḇ, who are called by the name of Yisra’ĕl, and have come from the waters of Yehuḏah, who swear by the Name of יהוה, and profess the Elohim of Yisra’ĕl – though not in truth or in righteousness –

2for they call themselves after the set-apart city, and lean on the Elohim of Yisra’ĕl – יהוה of hosts is His Name:

3“I have declared the former events from the beginning, and they went forth from My mouth, and I made you hear them. Suddenly I acted, and they came to be.

4“Because I knew that you were hard, and your neck was an iron sinew, and your forehead bronze,

5therefore I declared it to you long ago. Before it came I made you hear, lest you should say, ‘My idol has done them, and my carved image and my moulded image commanded them.’

6“You have heard, look at them all. And do you not declare it? From now on I shall make you hear new ones, even hidden ones, which you have not known.

7“Now they shall be created and not long ago. And before this day you have not heard them, lest you should say, ‘Look, I knew them.’

8“No, you have not heard; no, you have not known; no, from of old your ear has not been open. Because I knew that you are indeed treacherous, and are called ‘a transgressor from the womb.’

9“For My Name’s sake I postponed My displeasure, and for My praise I held it back from you, so as not to cut you off.

10“See, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction.

11“For My own sake, for My own sake, I do it. For how is it profaned? And My esteem I do not give to another.

12“Listen to Me, O Ya‛aqoḇ, and Yisra’ĕl, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.

13“Also, My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I call to them, let them stand together.

14“All of you, gather yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these? יהוה has loved him. Let him do His pleasure on Baḇel, and His arm be on the Chaldeans.

15“I, I have spoken, I have also called him, I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

16“Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Master יהוה has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

17Thus said יהוה, your Redeemer, the Set-apart One of Yisra’ĕl, “I am יהוה your Elohim, teaching you what is best, leading you by the way you should go.

18“If only you had listened to My commands! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

19“And your seed would have been like the sand, and the offspring of your inward parts like the grains of sand. His name would not have been cut off nor destroyed from before Me.

20“Come out of Baḇel! Flee from the Chaldeans! Declare this with a voice of singing, proclaim it, send it out to the end of the earth! Say, ‘יהוה has redeemed His servant Ya‛aqoḇ!’ ”

21And they did not thirst when He led them through the deserts; He caused waters from a rock to flow for them; He split the rock, and waters gushed out.

22“There is no peace for the wrong,” said יהוה.”

Hallelu-YAH .
 
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Rajni

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If you are questioning the character of God you are questioning God
Not in this case. It's beliefs about God that are being questioned.
Those questions might be making some uncomfortable, but
accusing the asker of questioning God's character when that
is not even the case is not only misguided, it doesn't make the
questions go away.

And if someone were questioning God, I’m pretty sure God can
handle it. ;)

The supposed priest's answer is not scriptural
Depends on which denomination one talks to.

-
 
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John 1:1 GodCZU

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No, that doesn't say what you think it means to say about our being condemned in the womb either. It's talking about the Jews and God's calling them to leave Babylon and condemns them for their artificial relationship with Yahweh.


http://biblehub.com/isr/isaiah/48.htm

1“Hear this, O house of Ya‛aqoḇ, who are called by the name of Yisra’ĕl, and have come from the waters of Yehuḏah, who swear by the Name of יהוה, and profess the Elohim of Yisra’ĕl – though not in truth or in righteousness –

2for they call themselves after the set-apart city, and lean on the Elohim of Yisra’ĕl – יהוה of hosts is His Name:

3“I have declared the former events from the beginning, and they went forth from My mouth, and I made you hear them. Suddenly I acted, and they came to be.

4“Because I knew that you were hard, and your neck was an iron sinew, and your forehead bronze,

5therefore I declared it to you long ago. Before it came I made you hear, lest you should say, ‘My idol has done them, and my carved image and my moulded image commanded them.’

6“You have heard, look at them all. And do you not declare it? From now on I shall make you hear new ones, even hidden ones, which you have not known.

7“Now they shall be created and not long ago. And before this day you have not heard them, lest you should say, ‘Look, I knew them.’

8“No, you have not heard; no, you have not known; no, from of old your ear has not been open. Because I knew that you are indeed treacherous, and are called ‘a transgressor from the womb.’

9“For My Name’s sake I postponed My displeasure, and for My praise I held it back from you, so as not to cut you off.

10“See, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction.

11“For My own sake, for My own sake, I do it. For how is it profaned? And My esteem I do not give to another.

12“Listen to Me, O Ya‛aqoḇ, and Yisra’ĕl, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.

13“Also, My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. I call to them, let them stand together.

14“All of you, gather yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these? יהוה has loved him. Let him do His pleasure on Baḇel, and His arm be on the Chaldeans.

15“I, I have spoken, I have also called him, I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

16“Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Master יהוה has sent Me, and His Spirit.”

17Thus said יהוה, your Redeemer, the Set-apart One of Yisra’ĕl, “I am יהוה your Elohim, teaching you what is best, leading you by the way you should go.

18“If only you had listened to My commands! Then your peace would have been like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

19“And your seed would have been like the sand, and the offspring of your inward parts like the grains of sand. His name would not have been cut off nor destroyed from before Me.

20“Come out of Baḇel! Flee from the Chaldeans! Declare this with a voice of singing, proclaim it, send it out to the end of the earth! Say, ‘יהוה has redeemed His servant Ya‛aqoḇ!’ ”

21And they did not thirst when He led them through the deserts; He caused waters from a rock to flow for them; He split the rock, and waters gushed out.

22“There is no peace for the wrong,” said יהוה.”

Hallelu-YAH .
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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I thought that would be the scripture you'd refer to.
That does not pertain to all people. The Psalms are the songs of King David. King David was speaking solely of his own conception when his mother had an affair and it was then that she did conceive him.

David in Psalm 51 is speaking of his sin, not his mother's. Scripture must be interpreted according to its context, not not flights of wild speculation.
 
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John 1:1 GodCZU

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David in Psalm 51 is speaking of his sin, not his mother's. Scripture must be interpreted according to its context, not not flights of wild speculation.
I quite agree.
And when Nitzevet committed adultery and conceived David in that sin, that is what he was speaking of.
In sin did my mother conceive me.
He could not sin when he was being conceived through Nitzevet's adultery. Human embryo's do not sin. Adulterous mothers do.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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And when Nitzevet committed adultery and conceived David in that sin, that is what he was speaking of.

An interpretation driven by extra-biblical speculation. Not to mention that it completely ignores the fact that the Scriptures, including the genealogies in both Matthew (1:6) and Luke (3:31-32), consistently call David "the son of Jesse".

He could not sin when he was being conceived through Nitzevet's adultery. Human embryo's do not sin.

David didn't say he sinned, he said he was sinful. The latter preceeds the former. We are not sinful because we sin; we sin because we are sinful. There's nothing in the context which suggests he is speaking about any sin but his own. From the beginning to the end of Psalm 51, talks about "my sin" "my transgressions" "my iniquity". Nothing about anybody's sin but his own. So on what basis do you understand the sin in verse 5 to refer to his mother's? Where does that come from? Certainly not from Scripture.
 
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miamited

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Can you find where I have said that I disagree with the Bible? Where am I "taking issue" with anything in the Bible? I'm really confused here. I haven't said a single word about compassion, about what is righteous or just. That's not what the thread is about. But I do find it very telling that no matter how much I ask a yes or no question, related specifically to the yes/no salvation theology, I pretty much never get anything of a concrete answer. And I still have no idea what you think about the fate of that specific 13 year old Syrian girl.

Hi highwayman,

Yes, I did answer your question directly. I said that it was my understanding that those you speak of who haven't made the conscious choice to love God would be gathered with the chaff. What I think about the fate of the 13 year old Syrian girl is that she will be cast our with the chaff. Is that clear enough for you?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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HighwayMan

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Hi highwayman,

Yes, I did answer your question directly. I said that it was my understanding that those you speak of who haven't made the conscious choice to love God would be gathered with the chaff. What I think about the fate of the 13 year old Syrian girl is that she will be cast our with the chaff. Is that clear enough for you?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Thank you, yes, this is the directness and clarity I am looking for in people's positions.

Now, I apologize as I don't remember what you said about babies and the mentally ill, but I would assume the answer is the same? They have not made the conscious choice to love God, and therefore are not going to heaven, but are "cast out with the chaff" ?
 
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Winken

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I could spend the rest of my life attempting to answer each and all of your questions, HighwayMan. However, I find it far more fruitful to admit that I am not God, that I don't have all the answers, except one: Romans 10:8-13. I've believed it, I've confessed it, and that settles it.

God grant that Christians everywhere spread that Good News.
 
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John 1:1 GodCZU

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An interpretation driven by extra-biblical speculation. Not to mention that it completely ignores the fact that the Scriptures, including the genealogies in both Matthew (1:6) and Luke (3:31-32), consistently call David "the son of Jesse".



David didn't say he sinned, he said he was sinful. The latter preceeds the former. We are not sinful because we sin; we sin because we are sinful. There's nothing in the context which suggests he is speaking about any sin but his own. From the beginning to the end of Psalm 51, talks about "my sin" "my transgressions" "my iniquity". Nothing about anybody's sin but his own. So on what basis do you understand the sin in verse 5 to refer to his mother's? Where does that come from? Certainly not from Scripture.
I'd suggest you read the Psalms chapter 51.
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Nitzevet, his mother, was in the process of committing adultery when he was conceived. He was shapen. Which began at conception . Bcause his mother committed the sin of adultery and conceived him.

Psalms is David's songs to God. Man's lament to his creator.
David isn't telling God how it goes with all people at conception.
David is acknowledging to God how David's life started.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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Nitzevet, his mother, was in the process of committing adultery when he was conceived. He was shapen. Which began at conception . Bcause his mother committed the sin of adultery and conceived him.

That's not in Psalm 51, or anywhere else in Scripture, which as I pointed out, calls David the son of Jesse, his mother's lawful husband. Ergo, Psalm 51:5 doesn't say what you tell me it says. It doesn't say that the sin in question was adultery, or any particular act at all.

Nor does it design his being conceived when his mother was in "profluviis", of which there is no proof, and is a mere imagination, and can answer no purpose; much less that he was conceived in adultery, as the contenders for the purity of human nature broadly intimate; which shows how much they are convicted by this text, to give into such an interpretation of it, at the expense of the character of an innocent person, of whom there is not the least suggestion of this kind in the Holy Scriptures; but on the contrary, she is represented as a religious woman, and David valued himself upon his relation to her as such, Psalm 86:16. Besides, had this been the case, as David would have been a bastard, he would not have been suffered to enter into the congregation of the Lord, according to the law inDeuteronomy 23:2; whereas he often did with great delight,Psalm 42:4. Moreover, it is beside his scope and design to expose the sins of others, much less his own parents, while he is confessing and lamenting his own iniquities: and to what purpose should he mention theirs, especially if he himself was not affected by them, and did not derive a corrupt nature from them?

-Gill's Exposition

Psalm 51 is about repentance and grace. David could only repent on behalf of his own sin, so the sin in which he was conceived, mentioned in verse 5, was not his mother's but his own. When you work out you own sin, you're not concerning yourself with what your parents did long ago. Unless you want to claim that only illegitimate children have as sin nature and those conceived in lawful wedlock do not.
 
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Xalith

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No. The Bible is perfect. If it wasn't then how can you know what words were true or false? Do we then just make a "Choose Your Own Adventure Bible"? I think not. You either believe all of it (As a package deal) or you don't believe it. God created the universe in six days by just speaking it (As you said). But if you do not trust all your Bible, then how can you trust that portion in your Bible that God says He created everything in six days? A believer knows the things of God by revelation and by understanding that there are more truths or science that backs up the Bible then China has rice. For if there is one book in human history that is clearly divine in origin, it is the Bible. Perfect and without error and 100% trust worthy in everything that it says. For if I cannot believe the axe head floated to the top of the water, then how can I believe in the resurrection? Again, the Bible is a package deal.

Also, God does not do bad things to us. The existence of all evil is man's fault. Man is now living in his own sandbox that he placed himself in. So bad is going to naturally happen. Granted, God can use the bad (that man brought into this world) for God's greater good or glory, but God does not do evil towards people. God is good. He is not evil. God merely allows evil (that came about from man) because God gave man his own sovereignty or free will. Man reaps what he sows.


...

I do trust what is written.

However, I also acknowledge the very distinct possibility that there are things not written in it.
 
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John 1:1 GodCZU

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Have you read Psalm 69:8?

That's not in Psalm 51, or anywhere else in Scripture, which as I pointed out, calls David the son of Jesse, his mother's lawful husband. Ergo, Psalm 51:5 doesn't say what you tell me it says. It doesn't say that the sin in question was adultery, or any particular act at all.

Nor does it design his being conceived when his mother was in "profluviis", of which there is no proof, and is a mere imagination, and can answer no purpose; much less that he was conceived in adultery, as the contenders for the purity of human nature broadly intimate; which shows how much they are convicted by this text, to give into such an interpretation of it, at the expense of the character of an innocent person, of whom there is not the least suggestion of this kind in the Holy Scriptures; but on the contrary, she is represented as a religious woman, and David valued himself upon his relation to her as such, Psalm 86:16. Besides, had this been the case, as David would have been a bastard, he would not have been suffered to enter into the congregation of the Lord, according to the law inDeuteronomy 23:2; whereas he often did with great delight,Psalm 42:4. Moreover, it is beside his scope and design to expose the sins of others, much less his own parents, while he is confessing and lamenting his own iniquities: and to what purpose should he mention theirs, especially if he himself was not affected by them, and did not derive a corrupt nature from them?

-Gill's Exposition

Psalm 51 is about repentance and grace. David could only repent on behalf of his own sin, so the sin in which he was conceived, mentioned in verse 5, was not his mother's but his own. When you work out you own sin, you're not concerning yourself with what your parents did long ago. Unless you want to claim that only illegitimate children have as sin nature and those conceived in lawful wedlock do not.
 
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Possibly so, yes.

Did you read all of Chapter 69? For context.

I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.

Considered by some commentators to be a messianic psalm foreshadowing Christ's estrangement from Israel.
 
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Dear Highwayman. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 40:
we read: on these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. God is Love and God wants loving sons and daughters. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: " ask and you shall receive," ask for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with your neighbour. That is straightforward and easy to remember. The Bible tells us:
" Repent and be Born Again," give up your selfish wishes and wants, and start being loving and caring. Straightforward and easy to remember. Ask for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with your neighbour. (neighbour is all we know and all we meet) AND FOLLOW JESUS BACK TO GOD, or go our way and land in Outer Darkness: JESUS IS THE WAY, or we follow our own way. We remember that God does not force us, God is all LOVE. We also have the Holy Spirit to help and guide us. I say this with love, Highwayman. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.
 
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HighwayMan

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Dear Highwayman. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 40:
we read: on these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. God is Love and God wants loving sons and daughters. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: " ask and you shall receive," ask for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with your neighbour. That is straightforward and easy to remember. The Bible tells us:
" Repent and be Born Again," give up your selfish wishes and wants, and start being loving and caring. Straightforward and easy to remember. Ask for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy with your neighbour. (neighbour is all we know and all we meet) AND FOLLOW JESUS BACK TO GOD, or go our way and land in Outer Darkness: JESUS IS THE WAY, or we follow our own way. We remember that God does not force us, God is all LOVE. We also have the Holy Spirit to help and guide us. I say this with love, Highwayman. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

With all due respect, how does that answer the questions in the OP? The only thing I can surmise is that you would answer "Yes," the little babies will be in hell, the mentally ill will be in hell, those who have never heard will be in hell - because if the only two options are "follow Jesus" or "go your own way in darkness," technically they are not able to achieve the former, so they must be in the latter.

It is so very easy for people to post Scripture, but so very hard it seems to use their understanding of this scripture to type out Yes or No.
 
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