The Gospel

Anguspure said:

Hi again Anonymouswho, Thanks for the explanation of what you guys hold to in scripture although I must say that to see someone who claims so strongly to be “fully persuaded” on such contentious issues is a little disturbing.

I myself have only allowed myself to be “fully persuaded” on the person of Christ, His crucifixion, His death, His burial and His resurrection from the dead on the 3rd day all for the forgiveness of sins.

Everything else that flows out from these things is contingent upon Him and in Him and anything that I think I can see from my limited and often hazy perspective must be held in humility as being incomplete and at least a little uncertain.

So that is spirit in which I approach what you have written and I appreciate your efforts to explain yourself.

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Hello my friend and thank you for the reply. I would like to ask you something if that is okay. I said that I am fully persuaded that these things are true, and you said you find this a bit disturbing. I'm just curious to know why this is disturbing to you?

"And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." Romans 14:23

I understand that we should not assert to know anything:

"For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. " 1 Corinthians 2:2

"And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
But if any man love God, the same is known of him." 1 Corinthians 8:2

This is the mindset I had when I first began studying the Scriptures. I actually started in Genesis rather than Matthew, because I had determined that I was going to put Yeshua to the test as well. I thought it would make more sense to learn about Yeshua's God before I tried to understand what Yeshua was trying to tell us about Him.

That was several years ago, and I haven't been able to stop since. I'm not a part of a cult or any organization. I'm 25 years old and I go to a Southern Baptist church.

Anguspure said:

For my part however I fail to see how God having a middle knowledge of all possible decisions, outcomes and actions in the universe, detracts from the active free will of the agents he has granted this ability to.

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I used to believe in an infinite amount of possibilities as well. I believed that if I chose this option, God knew everything that would come of it. It I chose that instead, God likewise knew everything that decision would bring. And thus this goes on for every second of our lives. My problem with this exact details in prophecy:

"That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers:
That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid." Isaiah 44:27

How did God know several years that before Cyrus was born, that his parents would name this particular person Cyrus? You see, if there was infinite amount of possibilities, then how can God say with 100% certainty that anything He wants will happen? What would have happened if Paul said no?

Anguspure said:

If I know, as God does, the choice that my child is about to make it doesn’t force her to make the choice, even if I knew it before she was born. And just because I have a cone and the chocolate topping (predestination) ready to put on her ice-cream, knowing that this would be what she chooses, it doesn’t mean that I created the circumstances in contravention of her freewill, it simply means I know her character and her mind better than the back of my own hand and (if she is surprised at her own decision) perhaps better than she knows herself.

Certainly none of this precludes God exercising His sovereignty over events and if even men can manipulate the minds of other men then we certainly have no resistance to His influence. But I see no contradiction between God having foreknowledge of what a person is going to choose, and the person making the choice.

Depends on ones understanding of what knowledge is I guess and perhaps the role of freewill is often overstated.

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Yes my friend, but if you have the chocolate topping in hand, and your child just happens to choose the cake, then your foreknowledge was mistaken. It is impossible for us to know what any other human being will do at anytime. But God knows all. If He has the cone and topping ready for the child, then the child is going to choose the ice cream. While you were making your best educated guess (albeit a good one), God knows with 100% certainty.

I think there is a misunderstanding. I'm not saying we don't have a will or that we don't make choices. This is obvious. What I'm saying is, we are not free to outweigh all possible outcomes for our choices to make a 100% free decision. We are all influenced by our family, our society, mental capacity, and a million other factors that none of us have any control over.

As I asked LoveofTruth, say there is a 23 year old Muslim girl in Afghanistan. Her entire life she has been told to stay away from those "pagan Christians" or she will suffer eternally in Jahannam. One day she is walking down the street, and a man rapes and kills her. After this horrible event, and because her family and country all agreed and taught that Christianity is wrong, does she go to hell? Does God annihilate her as if she meant nothing to Him?

Anguspure said:

But I think perhaps that the reason that I see freewill as being a philosophical necessity is that a world in which there is no freewill is a world in which there is no Agape love. Only morally free agents can make a choice between laying down their lives and taking them up again and only a free agent can hope to obey the command Love the Lord your God and Love your Neighbour, which is of course the whole crux of the scriptures, as demonstrated by Christ Jesus who is in turn the very embodiment of truth.

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I understand what you're saying, but I have to disagree that free will and morally free agents are necessary for any of those things.

"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." John 12:49

"Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. " John 4:34

What if Yeshua had decided from His own "free will" not to obey? This is impossible.

"Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done." Luke 22:42

Yeshua indeed had a will, and for a moment, His will was contrary to that of His Father's. But Yeshua had something else acting on His will that was stronger than His own. He had the Spirit of God leading Him to accomplish all that God had sent Him out to do. So, Yeshua did give His own life, but only beCause He Loves God and God had given Him authority to take it back up.

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment (ἐξουσίαν: authority) have I received of my Father." John 10:18

Yeshua loves God, just as we do. But why? Is there any reason that we should Love God? If we don't even know Him, if we've never heard of Him, or if our entire lives we've been told He is the wrong one, then why do we love Him?

"We love him, beCause he first loved us." 1 John 4:19

Anguspure said:

Here I think that premise (b) is faulty, simply because no man is an island. Of course there are external influences upon our decision making, there always are, and of course those things influence our decision making but these influences do not need to detract from free will. What I can say is that the influences in my life, guided by God create a set of circumstances in relation to which I may freely choose to act either this way or that.

Also I think that (c) is a bit strange. If God knows I am going to choose ice-cream over cake before the fact, it doesn’t mean I am stripped of my choice, it simply means that after the fact I can marvel at His knowledge of who I am and be grateful that he had the chocolate topping and a cone handy instead of a fork and plate.

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I just have a quick question about this. Does God learn about you, or did He already know about you?

"Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child.
But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.
Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.
Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth." Jeremiah 1:5

Anguspure said:

But we know that Newtonian physics do not in fact describe reality completely. Have you checked out Quantum theory and how it might relate to this sort of question? The laws of cause and effect do not seem to be quite so concrete at a quantum/metaphysical level.

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Anguspure said:

In Quantum effects are considered in terms of probabilities in which we can only consider the probability that the ball will travel on a given trajectory. A free agent might cause an influence on the ball at any moment and change the trajectory.

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Anguspure said:

All this tells me is that the will of man must be in the spirit which domain lies outside the 4 corners of the universe.

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Thank you for bringing this up. You are the first Christian I've talked to that has brought up Quantum Mechanics.

I do not believe in the Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Mechanics. I believe the Pilot-Wave interpretation is completely valid and answers all the "weirdness" involved in entanglement and quantum effects. Pilot Wave is non-local, so this means that in order for us to know the relationship between the velocity and position of a particle, we would have to have knowledge of every particle in the Universe since the "Big Bang" (so they call it). This Knowledge if far too outstanding for us, but I assure you my friend, Quantum Effects do not happen unless God has determined them to happen.

Here are a few articles of Atheists using the Uncertainty Principle to spout out whatever nonsense they wish.

Here is Stephen Hawkins using the Uncertainty Principle as an excuse for why the Universe is eternal and doesn't need God:

http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

From article: The focussing of our past light cone implied that time must have a beginning, if the General Theory of relativity is correct. But one might raise the question, of whether General Relativity really is correct. It certainly agrees with all the observational tests that have been carried out. However these test General Relativity, only over fairly large distances. We know that General Relativity can not be quite correct on very small distances, because it is a classical theory. This means, it doesn't take into account, the Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Mechanics, which says that an object can not have both a well defined position, and a well defined speed: the more accurately one measures the position, the less accurately one can measure the speed, and vice versa.

Here is a video of Machio Kaku telling us the same thing for free will:

http://www.speciesuniverse.com/why-physics-ends-the-free-will-debate-by-michio-kaku/

From article: Dr. Kaku tells us that Newtonian Mechanics gave us determinism which says the Universe runs like a clock. What you’re going to have for your dinner tonight was predetermined at the time of the Big Bang. All behavior is predetermined according to determinism. Einstein himself was a determinist.
However, Heisenberg comes along with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle introducing uncertainty into all behavior. The position of atoms is uncertain and in fact can be in many places simultaneously.

Here is an interview with Neils Bohr where he explains the reason why he chose to argue with Albert Einstein and Louis de Broglie about Quantum Mechanics:

https://publishing.aip.org/history-programs/niels-bohr-library/oral-histories/4517-5

Here are a few article about Pilot-Waves:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-bohm/

http://www.wired.com/2014/06/the-new-quantum-reality/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/blogs/physics/2014/09/quantum-physicists-catch-a-pilot-wave/

Here is a Cambridge course on Pilot Waves:

http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~mdt26/pilot_waves.html

This is also the wisdom of the world. I only believe the Scriptures.

Anguspure said:

OK my mistake. Not sure on this one myself. Not particularly concerned either. He is a vanquished enemy that needs to be reminded on occasion. I like what one man said, that it is not Satan that torments us, rather it is the Children of God that are here to torment him.

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I'm sorry, I don't agree with that quote. I think the children of God should forgive him rather than torment him.

Anguspure said:

Never heard that one, but one shouldn’t say that the biblical account came from the pagan Prometheus account when the truth is if anything the other way round

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I understand what you're saying, but I do not see any of this in the Scriptures. So it's not that I believe the Scriptures believed in a pagan entity, I'm saying that man believes the Scriptures speak of this pagan entity.

Anguspure said:

If the devil and his children speaketh of their own and he is the father of lies, doesn’t this speak of their own free will to bring these events about, to speak in these ways?

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No, because Satan could not speak lies, nor speak anything else, if God had not created him. And since he was a murder and liar from the beginning, when God created him, then God created him specifically to be a murderer and a liar. This does not make God a murderer or a liar, but He is responsible for creating Satan this way:

"Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made." Genesis 3:1

Why? How did the Serpent become subtil? How did he lie before Adam and Eve had brought sin in the world?

Anguspure said:

And so the only way out of simply having a meaningless cosmic puppet show is to also create free agents who will act freely in relation to these things either towards the light or away from it according to their will.

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I can't agree with this assumption my friend. This world is indeed a meaningless puppet show, for:

"Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity." Ecclesiastes 1:2

We don't have free will now, because if we had absolute free will, we would always choose evil. We are under the bondage of corruption. We are sinning machines. We wouldn't choose God because God desires that we do things that we don't want to do, and he desires that we refrain from things we want to do. You can say that since God doesn't get these things, then we have free will. I say He hasn't got it yet, because there is still more left to do. But the Scriptures say He will get this, and when He does:

"For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." Romans 8:20

Anguspure said:

This is what Adam and Eve chose by eating of the fruit of the tree of KOGAE, hoping that it would make them like God.

You asked an interesting question earlier:

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Anguspure said:

The answer is that she didn’t need to make a rational decision. She needed to trust and listen to the Spirit of Life within her. She stopped trusting when she ate and instead chose to gain her own knowledge of good and evil so that she could make her own judgements. Adams failure was even more severe because He also failed in the choice to Love.

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I'm sorry, I'm having trouble making sense of this. You say that Eve needed to trust God and listen to the Spirit of Life within her. I agree that this would have been Good, but Eve had no knowledge of Good. How could she? The Fruit contained both.

You wrote: to gain her own knowledge of good and evil so that she could make her own judgements.

But then the Orthodox interpretation is that she already made her own judgement when she decided, before she ate the Fruit, that she wanted to disobey God.

Anguspure said:

Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation – but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

It would seem from this passage however that we have a choice between living by the spirit and living by the flesh.

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This passage doesn't say we have a choice, it says we have an obligation. Now that God has revealed Himself to us, we are obligated to live in accordance with the Spirit. These words are written for us so that after we read them, this will Cause us to know what God wishes us to do. Some people hear these words and do them, and others don't. It is all in accordance with the measure of faith God has given to us:

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." Romans 12:2

Anguspure said:

Don’t be sorry, it is an interesting point of view that you hold and it is worth the consideration. I on the other hand am more persuaded to the side of freedom and love.

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Thank you. I am also on the side of freedom and love. Freedom from the bondage of corruption, and love for every human being that has ever lived. And I believe this Love has overcome all things, and Love never fails.

Thank you my friend. I am enjoying this conversation with you very much. God bless you.

2KnowHim said:

You can quote any scripture you want to but, with your understanding of them it is going to be very hard for us to talk about this subject, maybe anonymous can shed some light on it too, so that you have two witnesses.

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I'm sorry my friend, yesterday was my son's first day of kindergarten, and this has been a very busy week. I've also been trying to write everyone else, but the posts have gotten very long. So, I'm not quite sure what you and LoveofTruth are talking about. The trinity?

I'll try to get back on track soon. God bless you Sister.

LoveofTruth said:

well, if you just ignore or deny the clear, clear clear scriptures iI show you, then you are in more trouble than you think. And running to anonymous", wont help either.

Let "anonymous" come and try to show that the scriptures I gave arent true and clear. I welcome it

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I would never say that any Scriptures are not true. But, if some passages have been added that do not belong, then we must carefully consider these things. God's Word is indeed there, but men do all sorts of deceitful things. Do you think that Revelation warns us that no words may be added or taken away in vain?

Consider this passage my friend:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7

There are plenty of trinitarian believers who know this is not in any of the original texts. Isaac Newton loved the Scriptures, and he learned Greek so that he could study them. The Pulpit Commentary is very trinitarian, but they say:

"Verse 7. - For those who bear witness are three, and thus constitute full legal testimony (Deuteronomy 17:6;Deuteronomy 19:15; Matthew 18:16; 2 Corinthians 13:1). It will be assumed here, without discussion, that the remainder of this verse and the first clause of verse 8 are spurious. Words which are not contained in a single Greek uncial manuscript, nor in a single Greek cursive earlier than the fourteenth century (the two which contain the passage being evidently translated from the Vulgate), nor are quoted by a single Greek Father during the whole of the Trinitarian controversy, nor are found in any authority until late in the fifth century, cannot be genuine. "

This is not an acceptable verse, and it is not the Word of God. Here are the Greek manuscripts side by side:

http://biblehub.com/text/1_john/5-7.htm

I'm not one to ever claim that something is not in the Scriptures because it effects a doctrine. But if something is not there, then it's not there. And we must find other ways to test our doctrine. This verse also isn't in very many Greek manuscripts:

"For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." Luke 9:56

That entire line is missing from several manuscripts, and it would definitely help us in our doctrine. However, I'm not 100% sure about this one because it is in many ancient manuscripts, so we know it is very old. So, although I'd love to use this one because it's such pure words, I've decided that there must be other means to do this. So I do have this verse:

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him [might] be saved." John 3:17

The word "might" is not in the original Greek. The only word there is σωθῇwhich means: save; not "might save". So this verse says the exact same thing as Luke 9:56, and it is in every Greek manuscript.

I just wanted you to know that I do not pick and choose what I accept as Scripture or not. If I have a question about something, I look into it. If I find it not to be acceptable, I see if there are other verses that say the exact same thing. If there isn't, and I can't find anything else to support that position, then I deny the whole premises and try to figure out what is actually true.

God has put us in an age where we have plenty of tools to search out these matters:

"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." Daniel 12:4

So let us not be lazy, but rather we should use that which God has provided to search out all matters and prove all things.

LoveofTruth said:

How about the new birth and how the men before the cross were born again. I pointed out many verses above. This is my present discussion.

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"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ (Yeshua the Messiah) of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:10

If the men before Messiah did not know him, they are not saved. They are dead in the ground waiting for Judgement. After Judgement, they will know Him, because:

"I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." Isaiah 45:23

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Timothy 2:3

"Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus (Yeshua) every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Philippians 2:9

There is NO other way than through Yeshua. To say that a man can be saved without Him is undoubtedly heresy. None of us have ever even implied there is another way, we are simply saying that every man will eventually find that way.

Thank you and God bless you my friend.

LoveofTruth said:

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" (Hebrews 3:12-14

This teaching from scripture is often not liked by many unfortunatley. and many try to avoid the truth of this by all sorts of eternal unsecurity doctrines and twist

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My friend, don't you understand that this is written for us? If this was not written, then we couldn't read it, and if we couldn't read it, we wouldn't know it. You read things like "beware" and "take heed", and these things give you the impression that you are free to resist either way.

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But they have not all obeyed the GOSPEL. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:14

This was not written for unbelievers to read and understand and then free willfully decide that they should believe in this. This was written for us, so that when we read it, we know what to do.

If you understand that, then all of this makes perfect sense.

"Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." 1 Corinthians 10:6

Do you not see how it is God that does all things. He does these things for us. 2000 years ago, these were written so that after you and I were born, we would have them to read. And if God so happen to have chosen, then we read them and believe.

Not because we have better understanding. Not because we are smarter. Not because we figured it out. Not because we blindly believe. Not because we said okay. Not because we desired this. Not because we received a gift that we chose because we love God because we are any better than any person that has ever lived.

It is all because of God, because He is the Most High God. YHVH our Father and our God.

"Hear, O Israel: YHVH our God is one YHVH:
And thou shalt love YHVH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates." Deuteronomy 6:44

"And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.
And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?" Mark 8:20

"O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!

10Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.

11He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

12Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?

13Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counseller hath taught him?

14With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?

15Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.

16And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering.

17All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.

18To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

19The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.

20He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved.

21Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?

22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

23That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity.

24Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble.

25To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One.

26Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.

27Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God?

28Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary?there is no searching of his understanding.

29He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

30Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:

31But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

LoveofTruth said:

you greatly error again.

Peter confessed that jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and to do so he had God in him and was born again as scripture teaches ( 1 John 4:15, 5:1)

sometimes scripture is so clear and yet many miss it and ignore it.

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If Peter had the Spirit before Pentecost, then who is the Twelfth Apostle, Matthias or Paul?

Thank you my friend and God bless you.

LoveofTruth said:

To all,

Isn't it strange I will quote a verse and just simy be live it and others will come in and try to tear the verse down and say it doesn't mean what it says it it says in the Geeek this and do the verse means the opposite etc. people will try all sorts of things to avoid the power And truth of scripture

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My friend, we have to study the original language. This is very important. Some of us will not know how to do this, or some of us cannot afford a Concordance, but if there is anyone here (using the Internet), then they have the resources to search out these matters. If there is someone out there that can't use these resources, and God has chosen them, they will see it in the KJV just as they would anywhere else.

They would read this:

"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thatthy whole body should be cast into hell." Matthew 5:25

And they would say, "Surely He is not telling me to pluck my eye out. This is one sentence, is He trying to tell me something about this fire?"

And then they would read:

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:12

And:

"For our God is a consuming fire." Hebrews 12:29

And they would understand that these things are not to be taken literal. God is not literally a consuming fire and Yeshua does not literally have a double edged sword coming out of His mouth:

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12

I wish to share with anyone reading this a few wonderful resources. If we are on this forum, there is no reason why we can't use these resources.



Bible > Revelation > Chapter 20 > Verse 10
◄ Revelation 20:10 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The first one is biblehub.com and it is one of the greatest blessing ever. Just input the verse you'd like to go to at the top, and then it will show you parallel verses of different translations. If you click the letters INT under the search bar, it will take you to an interlinear in the original language for that verse. For each word, there is a number above it that will take you to several different concordances. Remember to read Hebrew right to left.

If you have an Android phone, there is an app called My Sword for Android. It gives you a few different translations, as well as a KJVlite option that is a normal KJV, and an option called KJV that has a Strong's Concordance after every word. I've added a screenshot of what this app looks like.

Anyways, I just wanted everyone to know that there are many resources, and if we have been deceitful in any way, then please see for yourselves. Thank you all and God bless you. Thank you as well LoveofTruth, and God bless.