Regnum Caelorum

JM

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Literal Millennialism was a minority belief held by a small but vocal group in Asia minor. It was never a universal position of the church and was rejected for many reasons but the one I recall as the strongest reason for doing so was based on the idea that when a person died they had to wait in a state of soul sleep (can't remember how it was described) until Christ returned. When Christ returned the soul was resurrected with the body and lived during the millennial period.

I logged into Amazon to find the author of the title I wanted to recommend and found a great review that outlines the work. In the review you'll find ample evidence why the church rejected millennialism.

The Review: Regnum Caelorum: Patterns of Millennial Thought in Early Christianity: Charles E. Hill: 9780802846341: Books - Amazon.ca

There is a common misconception among Christians that the early Church's eschatology was universally premillennial and only gradually did this premillennialism (or chiliasm) fall out of favor with the credit (or blame) usually given to Origen and Augustine. This claim, often put forward by those clinging to Dispensationalist eschatology, overlooks the fact that the earliest Church Fathers have no trace of chiliasm in the eschatalogical passages of their writings. It is only in the second century that chiiasm appears and goes on to be the more widely held position - although never universally so - and then fades again in popularity.

The questions then become:

Where did chiliasm originate?

Why did it become so widespread?

What led to its demise?

In Regnum Caelorum, Charles E. Hill explores these question and in the process arrives at some ground breaking conclusions on the connection between the rise of chiliasm and the disemination of certain beliefs in the nature of the intermediate state between the believer's earthly passing and resurrection popularized by two pseudopigraphical Jewish apocalyptic writings that had attained some status within the fledgling Christian community. These two writings - II Baruch and IV Ezra - intimately linked the belief that souls would remain in Hades until the establishment of the millennial kingdom and not go to heaven as believed by others.

Hill begins by noting that during the height of chiliasm, its most ardent defenders did state that there were true believers in Christ who did not hold the chiliast position. One of the most famous was St. Irenaeus of Lyon who believed that Christians not holding to a chiliast position were troubled because they - wrongly in his mind - believed the souls of the faithful departed would go to heaven and a subsequent return to an earthly millennial kingdom would be a step back from the glories of the beatific vision. Instead, St. Irenaeus asserted that their souls would remain in Hades - located in the bowels of the earth - unitl Christ returns and not in heaven (with an exception made for the martyrs) and so such concerns were baseless.

With a possible link in Irenaeus of chiliasm and an intermediate state in Hades, Hill then examines other chiliasts for further evidence of a similar connection. Papias, a well known figure of the early second century Church whose writings we now only have in fragements quoted by St. Irenaeus and others, held eschatalogical views that were dependant upon the pseudopigraphical II Baruch. Since II Baruch ties in chiliasm and the view of an intermediate state in Hades, it is likely that Papias held a similar outlook and it was through Papias' influence that St. Irenaeus came to the a similar position.

Turning to a chiliast between St. Justin Martyr, a chiliast whose writings appeared between Papias and St. Irenaeus, Hill finds a similar connection between chiliasm and Hades as an intermediate state. There is some dispute as to the consistency in his writings on both matters, but where his he assert chiliasm, the subterranean intermediate state assertion also appears. Hill then turns to other Christian chiliasts throughout the ante-Nicene period and finds that, with one exception, all of them also hold to the belief in a subterranean intermediate state in Hades (with some but not all making an exception for the martyrs). The one exception is late - St. Methodius of Olympus at the turn of the fourth century - and was reacting to criticism by Origen by attempting to fuse elements of chiliast and non-chiliast eschatologies. Thus a strong correspondence of the two beliefs is established.

Having established a link within chiliasm - possibly through Papias - to the eschatalogical views expressed in Jewish pseudopigraphia, Hill takes a look at Jewish eschatalogical speculation in the peiod. There was a great deal of messianic fervor within Judaism prior to the time of Christ and this heightened after the shock of the Roman destruction of the Temple in Jersualem. From that date until the Roman's crushing the Bar Kochba revolt (~130 A.D.), an intense period of apocalyptic speculation occurred in Phariseeic circles and it was during this period that II Baruch and IV Ezra - the only Jewish books to link chiliasm and the subterranean intermediate state - were from this period. The interaction of early Christians with Jews during this period certainly would have familiarized them with such expectations and Papias, St. Justin Martyr, and the author of the Epistle of Barnabas all demonstrate a dependancy on one or both of these documents. It was through this influence that we see that such beliefs entered into the Christian consciousness at the turn of the second century A.D. Hill further notes that the entry of such beliefs is marked by some gnostic writers reacting to the chiliast belief and in so confirming its linkage to the belief in a subterranean intermediate state.

Hill then begins to examine the writings of non-chiliasts in the ante-Nicene Church. First examining the writings of the first century Apostolic Fathers, he demonstrates both the lack of chiliastic beliefs and a of belief in a subterranean intermediate state. In fact, there is strong evidence of a contrary belief in a heavenly intermediate state. This pattern is also reflected in the writings of non-chiliast Christians, Christian pseudopigraphia, and Christian martyrologies of the second century.

Hill then tackles the issue of the Montanists. The excesses of the Montanist movement (and its subsequent censure by the Church) are often credited with the decline of chiliasm on the assumption that Montanists were largely chiliasts. However, Hill points out that the patristic critics of Montanism - including many who ardently opposed chiliasm - did not bring up any such link. The misconception may result from the fact that Tertullian, by far the best known figure to embrace Montanism, was also a chiliast but he was a chiliast long before he was a Montanist. In fact, the description of Montanist beliefs we find in the Church Fathers indicates a variety of eschatalogical positions. There is no doubt, however, that an erroneous link between the two became established later.

The author then turns to the period when the tide begins to turn against chiliasm. He shows this change in fortunes corresponds to an eschatalogical shift to a position that increasingly looked heavenword. In the third century, the chiliast position would fall out of favor by this trend and the accompanying criticism of the theologians of the Alexandrian school who recoiled at the earthly emphasis of the chiliast eschatology.

Having established a strong connection between views on the intermediate state and position on chiliasm (chiliasm/subterranean intermediate state vs. non-chiliasm/heavenly intermediate state), Hill looks to the eschatalogical passages of the New Testament to see whether a millennial view can be clearly articulated or at least hinted at by a view of the intermediate state of the faithful departed. In demonstrating no advocacy of a chiliast position in the Epistles and the Gospels, he also points out the many references to a heavenly abode for the faithful departed. This is still further evidence that these writings were not advocating a chiliast view. With this in mind, he then tackles the Book of Revelation and shows how the imagery is best understood in the context of a Christian community that had no understanding of chiliasm. He points out how the imagery deviates greatly from that normally associated with a chiliast view and concludes that later chiliast readings were not in keeping with the original intent and were likely the result of imposing a chiliastic matrix derived from Jewish pseudopigraphia upon the text.

Hill then closes the book by tying together some loose ends from earlier chapters. He gives a summary of his findings and points out how in the revival of chiliasm in elements of the radical reformation, the same issue of a retreat from the heavenly abode was confronted and was solved by introducing the idea of soul sleep. Although not mentioned, one could also point out that contemporary dispensationalists evade this issue by dividing the people of God into God's earthly people (believing Jews) and heavenly people (Christians) and the millennium is only for the former. Hill then returns to the statement of St. Irenaeus that good Christians disagreed on this issue and from earlier studies concludes who he may have had in mind. The author also points to the evidence supporting the belief that chiliasm was not something St. Irenaeus inherited from St. Polycarp but departed from earlier beliefs to an alternate eschatology that he believed was better able to combat gnosticism. He then gives an exegesis of Revelation 20 using the writings of ante-Nicene non-chiliasts and concludes with some final remarks on New Testament Eschatology.

In its thoroughness in studying the eschatological views of the early Church, Regnum Caelorum puts to rest the idea that the earliest Christian eschatology was universally premillennial. In so doing, the linkage of millennial views with corresponding outlooks on the intermediate state links the chiliast eschatology with views that are objectively rejected by the New Testament texts. For anyone interested in the development of eschatology in the early Church, it is absolutely essential reading. [end of review]



jm
 
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Dave Watchman

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Jewish pseudopigraphia?



Jm, you are the intellectual here. I have to practice pronouncing "pseudopigraphia" a couple of times before some semblance of success is achieved.

pseud·e·pig·ra·pha/ˌso͞odəˈpiɡrəfə/noun
spurious or pseudonymous writings, especially Jewish writings ascribed to various biblical patriarchs and prophets but composed within approximately 200 years of the birth of Jesus Christ.

My vote goes with good old Hippolytus of Rome on this one. I think the earth will need a rest before the Holy City can touch down on it.

"And 6,000 years must needs be accomplished, in order that the Sabbath may come, the rest, the holy day "on which God rested from all His works." For the Sabbath is the type and emblem of the future kingdom of the saints, when they "shall reign with Christ," when He comes from heaven, as John says in his Apocalypse: for "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years." Since, then, in six days God made all things, it follows that 6, 000 years must be fulfilled." (Hippolytus. On the HexaËmeron, Or Six Days' Work. From Fragments from Commentaries on Various Books of Scripture).

I think that we go reign with Jesus in His Father's House for a millennial day. I'm assuming that, among other things, we're going to discuss what will happen to all the wicked when we get back.

The question of our state in death or the resurrection has no bearing at all on my understanding of the 1000 years. There once was a husband and wife team of volcanologists who's propensity for getting very close to their subject matter got the better of them one fateful day. When the ridge that they stood on became unsafe and overflowed with lava, their deaths were instant. Nothing could have remained of their bodies. They were consumed, vaporized, on the molecular level by liquid rock at around 2000 °F.

I have no doubt that if the Lord required it, He has the capability to resurrect them both into the same bodies that they were using prior to falling into trouble. It's all relative, E=mc2 stuff. We are restricted by time, the Speaker of things into existence is not. He could command Katia and Maurice Krafft to come here a split second before they ran into trouble in Japan on June 3, 1991. And they would hear His voice and do it, right through time itself.

"For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord"
 
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keras

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Any normal reading of Revelation, without all the brouhaha of the commentators, is clear: Jesus will Return and reign for 1000 years. It is His right and His reward. It is also the Sabbath period for all creation.

I think that we go reign with Jesus in His Father's House for a millennial day. I'm assuming that, among other things, we're going to discuss what will happen to all the wicked when we get back.
The belief of going to heaven is wrong. Jesus, who is spiritually our King, will be our physical King on earth as Rev 20 says.
The wicked are gone well before that, but at the end of the Mill, many will again be deceived. They too will be destroyed.
 
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keras

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Speaking of "brouhaha", it might be time to tone it down. Let's pursue a brouhaha free environment and hope that the pregnant woman doesn't find us over here.
Take it easy Keras
A false teaching free environment, would be where personal opinion and speculation is banned. Un-Biblical theories like the rapture and there being no literal Millennium.

So, DaveW and JM, you don't address the issues being discussed. Would you prefer for me to just stop promoting the truth of the Prophetic Word? But I won't, because when I see false teachings, I will call them out.
I can post any amount of scripture to support the truth.

Isn't brouhaha a lovely word though? Very appropriate for all who push their own agendas.
 
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Dave Watchman

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The belief of going to heaven is wrong.

How then, teacher, do you explain these verses:

"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also"

This sounds to me like Jesus left to go and prepare a place for us and will come back here to get us and then take us away so that we can be where He is.

Am I sticking my neck out too far in assuming that He must be talking about the 1000 years?

I agree that Jesus will be our King right here on this physical planet but not until the 1000 years are finished.

How else can you explain John 14?
 
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keras

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How then, teacher, do you explain these verses:
"Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also"
This sounds to me like Jesus left to go and prepare a place for us and will come back here to get us and then take us away so that we can be where He is.
Am I sticking my neck out too far in assuming that He must be talking about the 1000 years?
I agree that Jesus will be our King right here on this physical planet but not until the 1000 years are finished.
How else can you explain John 14?
John 14:1-6 tells us Jesus will come again. To where? Earth of course, where He was during His first Advent. It is purely an assumption that the 'mansions' are in heaven, that isn't mentioned and you make another assumption when you say He will take us away, because where He will be is on earth.
This passage is simply another of the many promises of God to His people about the regeneration and rebuilding of all the Holy Land. Jeremiah 30:18, Isaiah 58:12
All this will happen BEFORE the Return of Jesus. When He does come, those who remain in the Land after the Great Trib, will shout: Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord.

BTW, I do not call myself a teacher, my task is to point out what the prophets actually wrote.
My name, Keras means messenger or herald. logostelos.info
 
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BABerean2

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Any normal reading of Revelation, without all the brouhaha of the commentators, is clear: Jesus will Return and reign for 1000 years. It is His right and His reward. It is also the Sabbath period for all creation.

Any normal reading would let us see that Christ reigns forever at the 7th trump.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Also, God's wrath is poured out and the judgment of the dead happens at the same time.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

...................................................................................
Any normal reading of Revelation chapter 20 would let us see that John is describing "souls" reigning in heaven with Christ.
It does not describe the reign of Christ.

If I marry the queen of England at some future point in time, the history books might later describe how long I had reigned with her. Their description of my reign with her would not be the same as her reign.

I love you, Keras.

.

 
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keras

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BaB , about time for you to actually be a Berean!
Look at 1 Corinthians 15:24
Explain please, at what time will this happen?

Souls reigning in heaven? What a peculiar notion! Do the angels need us to keep them under control?
Revelation 20:9 mentions fire coming DOWN from heaven to destroy the army attacking God's people and the city He loves.
This happens at the end of the Millennium, during the time these prophesies happen: Isaiah 11:6-9, Isaiah 33:20-24, Isaiah 60:17-22, Micah 4:1-5, Zechariah 9:10
From all of that, there is no doubt; the Millennium reign of Jesus is on earth and at the end of the 1000 years, Jesus hands the Kingdom back the God the Father and He comes to live on earth with mankind, Revelation 21:3, so heaven will then be on earth again as it was with Adam.
 
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BABerean2

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the Millennium reign of Jesus is on earth and at the end of the 1000 years, Jesus hands the Kingdom back the God the Father

Then he must be doing it twice...


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
What in the world is happening here?
Do you ignore this verse to get your doctrine to work?


Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Is the Gog Magog War the Battle of Armageddon ?
http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Gog



Put the verse you gave with the previous verse to reveal the timing.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
This happens at the 7th trumpet, as shown above.

.






 
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Berean777

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Any normal reading would let us see that Christ reigns forever at the 7th trump.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Also, God's wrath is poured out and the judgment of the dead happens at the same time.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

...................................................................................
Any normal reading of Revelation chapter 20 would let us see that John is describing "souls" reigning in heaven with Christ.
It does not describe the reign of Christ.

If I marry the queen of England at some future point in time, the history books might later describe how long I had reigned with her. Their description of my reign with her would not be the same as her reign.

I love you, Keras.

.

That seventh trumpet that he sounds and declares time no longer.
 
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Berean777

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Literal Millennialism was a minority belief held by a small but vocal group in Asia minor. It was never a universal position of the church and was rejected for many reasons but the one I recall as the strongest reason for doing so was based on the idea that when a person died they had to wait in a state of soul sleep (can't remember how it was described) until Christ returned. When Christ returned the soul was resurrected with the body and lived during the millennial period.

I logged into Amazon to find the author of the title I wanted to recommend and found a great review that outlines the work. In the review you'll find ample evidence why the church rejected millennialism.

The Review: Regnum Caelorum: Patterns of Millennial Thought in Early Christianity: Charles E. Hill: 9780802846341: Books - Amazon.ca

There is a common misconception among Christians that the early Church's eschatology was universally premillennial and only gradually did this premillennialism (or chiliasm) fall out of favor with the credit (or blame) usually given to Origen and Augustine. This claim, often put forward by those clinging to Dispensationalist eschatology, overlooks the fact that the earliest Church Fathers have no trace of chiliasm in the eschatalogical passages of their writings. It is only in the second century that chiiasm appears and goes on to be the more widely held position - although never universally so - and then fades again in popularity.

The questions then become:

Where did chiliasm originate?

Why did it become so widespread?

What led to its demise?

In Regnum Caelorum, Charles E. Hill explores these question and in the process arrives at some ground breaking conclusions on the connection between the rise of chiliasm and the disemination of certain beliefs in the nature of the intermediate state between the believer's earthly passing and resurrection popularized by two pseudopigraphical Jewish apocalyptic writings that had attained some status within the fledgling Christian community. These two writings - II Baruch and IV Ezra - intimately linked the belief that souls would remain in Hades until the establishment of the millennial kingdom and not go to heaven as believed by others.

Hill begins by noting that during the height of chiliasm, its most ardent defenders did state that there were true believers in Christ who did not hold the chiliast position. One of the most famous was St. Irenaeus of Lyon who believed that Christians not holding to a chiliast position were troubled because they - wrongly in his mind - believed the souls of the faithful departed would go to heaven and a subsequent return to an earthly millennial kingdom would be a step back from the glories of the beatific vision. Instead, St. Irenaeus asserted that their souls would remain in Hades - located in the bowels of the earth - unitl Christ returns and not in heaven (with an exception made for the martyrs) and so such concerns were baseless.

With a possible link in Irenaeus of chiliasm and an intermediate state in Hades, Hill then examines other chiliasts for further evidence of a similar connection. Papias, a well known figure of the early second century Church whose writings we now only have in fragements quoted by St. Irenaeus and others, held eschatalogical views that were dependant upon the pseudopigraphical II Baruch. Since II Baruch ties in chiliasm and the view of an intermediate state in Hades, it is likely that Papias held a similar outlook and it was through Papias' influence that St. Irenaeus came to the a similar position.

Turning to a chiliast between St. Justin Martyr, a chiliast whose writings appeared between Papias and St. Irenaeus, Hill finds a similar connection between chiliasm and Hades as an intermediate state. There is some dispute as to the consistency in his writings on both matters, but where his he assert chiliasm, the subterranean intermediate state assertion also appears. Hill then turns to other Christian chiliasts throughout the ante-Nicene period and finds that, with one exception, all of them also hold to the belief in a subterranean intermediate state in Hades (with some but not all making an exception for the martyrs). The one exception is late - St. Methodius of Olympus at the turn of the fourth century - and was reacting to criticism by Origen by attempting to fuse elements of chiliast and non-chiliast eschatologies. Thus a strong correspondence of the two beliefs is established.

Having established a link within chiliasm - possibly through Papias - to the eschatalogical views expressed in Jewish pseudopigraphia, Hill takes a look at Jewish eschatalogical speculation in the peiod. There was a great deal of messianic fervor within Judaism prior to the time of Christ and this heightened after the shock of the Roman destruction of the Temple in Jersualem. From that date until the Roman's crushing the Bar Kochba revolt (~130 A.D.), an intense period of apocalyptic speculation occurred in Phariseeic circles and it was during this period that II Baruch and IV Ezra - the only Jewish books to link chiliasm and the subterranean intermediate state - were from this period. The interaction of early Christians with Jews during this period certainly would have familiarized them with such expectations and Papias, St. Justin Martyr, and the author of the Epistle of Barnabas all demonstrate a dependancy on one or both of these documents. It was through this influence that we see that such beliefs entered into the Christian consciousness at the turn of the second century A.D. Hill further notes that the entry of such beliefs is marked by some gnostic writers reacting to the chiliast belief and in so confirming its linkage to the belief in a subterranean intermediate state.

Hill then begins to examine the writings of non-chiliasts in the ante-Nicene Church. First examining the writings of the first century Apostolic Fathers, he demonstrates both the lack of chiliastic beliefs and a of belief in a subterranean intermediate state. In fact, there is strong evidence of a contrary belief in a heavenly intermediate state. This pattern is also reflected in the writings of non-chiliast Christians, Christian pseudopigraphia, and Christian martyrologies of the second century.

Hill then tackles the issue of the Montanists. The excesses of the Montanist movement (and its subsequent censure by the Church) are often credited with the decline of chiliasm on the assumption that Montanists were largely chiliasts. However, Hill points out that the patristic critics of Montanism - including many who ardently opposed chiliasm - did not bring up any such link. The misconception may result from the fact that Tertullian, by far the best known figure to embrace Montanism, was also a chiliast but he was a chiliast long before he was a Montanist. In fact, the description of Montanist beliefs we find in the Church Fathers indicates a variety of eschatalogical positions. There is no doubt, however, that an erroneous link between the two became established later.

The author then turns to the period when the tide begins to turn against chiliasm. He shows this change in fortunes corresponds to an eschatalogical shift to a position that increasingly looked heavenword. In the third century, the chiliast position would fall out of favor by this trend and the accompanying criticism of the theologians of the Alexandrian school who recoiled at the earthly emphasis of the chiliast eschatology.

Having established a strong connection between views on the intermediate state and position on chiliasm (chiliasm/subterranean intermediate state vs. non-chiliasm/heavenly intermediate state), Hill looks to the eschatalogical passages of the New Testament to see whether a millennial view can be clearly articulated or at least hinted at by a view of the intermediate state of the faithful departed. In demonstrating no advocacy of a chiliast position in the Epistles and the Gospels, he also points out the many references to a heavenly abode for the faithful departed. This is still further evidence that these writings were not advocating a chiliast view. With this in mind, he then tackles the Book of Revelation and shows how the imagery is best understood in the context of a Christian community that had no understanding of chiliasm. He points out how the imagery deviates greatly from that normally associated with a chiliast view and concludes that later chiliast readings were not in keeping with the original intent and were likely the result of imposing a chiliastic matrix derived from Jewish pseudopigraphia upon the text.

Hill then closes the book by tying together some loose ends from earlier chapters. He gives a summary of his findings and points out how in the revival of chiliasm in elements of the radical reformation, the same issue of a retreat from the heavenly abode was confronted and was solved by introducing the idea of soul sleep. Although not mentioned, one could also point out that contemporary dispensationalists evade this issue by dividing the people of God into God's earthly people (believing Jews) and heavenly people (Christians) and the millennium is only for the former. Hill then returns to the statement of St. Irenaeus that good Christians disagreed on this issue and from earlier studies concludes who he may have had in mind. The author also points to the evidence supporting the belief that chiliasm was not something St. Irenaeus inherited from St. Polycarp but departed from earlier beliefs to an alternate eschatology that he believed was better able to combat gnosticism. He then gives an exegesis of Revelation 20 using the writings of ante-Nicene non-chiliasts and concludes with some final remarks on New Testament Eschatology.

In its thoroughness in studying the eschatological views of the early Church, Regnum Caelorum puts to rest the idea that the earliest Christian eschatology was universally premillennial. In so doing, the linkage of millennial views with corresponding outlooks on the intermediate state links the chiliast eschatology with views that are objectively rejected by the New Testament texts. For anyone interested in the development of eschatology in the early Church, it is absolutely essential reading. [end of review]



jm

I learnt two names for two sides Chiliasts and Motanists and I thought it was a garden exhibition. I had no idea people needed pick sides to know the truth.

The scriptures points to the millennium starting when Christ opened the tombs of the first fruits, the Old Covenant Fathers of faith, who are the symbol of the 144,000 (children of every tribe of old Israel).

The great harvest was initiated at that time after Christ's resurrection and as my churches liturgy states that a departed migrates from life in the mortal body to life in the immortal body in heaven, Christ's Father's house.

There are two realms the earthy and the third heaven which is the angelic, Hebrews writer speaks of those two worlds in brief but many mis his point.

Hebrews 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 11:3
Through faith we understand that
the worlds
were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

In both versus the word Worlds is used as a definite article and int he plural to point to two real and tangible realms, the one that is seen by the human eye and the one that is not see by the human eye. The one that is not seen by the human eye is the realm by which the world that was seen was made.

This statement implies a higher realm of existence to that of the earthly realm and points to a real and tangible angelic realm as Jesus would say.

John 14:2
There is more than enough room in my Father's home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?

The earthly realm is a ghetto in comparison to the heavenly angelic realm.

The millennium ends when the Lord sounds the seventh trumpet and declares time no longer, that is the great harvest has ended and the old earth must pass away and the heavenly realm is all that is left.

Both camps are wrong equally!
 
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Berean777

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Actually, the 7th trumpet sounds Christ receiving all power and authority from the Father. It's Matthew 28:18!

He received all power when he went to the Father. Mary M was told not to touch him because he was going to the Father (Ancient of Days) to receive the Kingdom in his glorification. Later he appeared before the disciples whom he told that they were to touch him for flesh and bone is not a spirit and sat down to eat broiled fish.
 
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keras

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Actually, the 7th trumpet sounds Christ receiving all power and authority from the Father. It's Matthew 28:18!
Thanks Ebed.
It is also Psalm 2:1-12.... I will give you the nations as Your domain...you will break them with Your rod of iron... Also Psalms 110:1-6
Expect Him to do this breaking and shattering quite soon.
 
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Berean777

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Thanks Ebed.
It is also Psalm 2:1-12.... I will give you the nations as Your domain...you will break them with Your rod of iron... Also Psalms 110:1-6
Expect Him to do this breaking and shattering quite soon.

He already has the nations. Each person from every nation who has been departing from this life has been coming before the judgement seat of the Lord, after all it is written all men are destined to die once then judgement. After all why is it written that the Lord ascended up in high to sit on the right hand of the almighty as the almighty judge. People surely can't presume that he has been twiddling his fingers for the last 2000 years until he receives an earthly Kingdom.

Surely the judgement of the nations has been happening for the last 2000 years because death brings all before the maker for judgement of the works done in the body. It is written all knees shall bow down and that all mouths shall confess before the Lord. This statement is indicative of post death judgement. For you do not know on what day or in what hour the Lord comes for you when you die (thief destroys your earthly body).
 
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ebedmelech

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Thanks Ebed.
It is also Psalm 2:1-12.... I will give you the nations as Your domain...you will break them with Your rod of iron... Also Psalms 110:1-6
Expect Him to do this breaking and shattering quite soon.
Keras, Daniel foretold this in Daniel 7:9-14 and Revelation 5:1-10 repeats it...so one has to correlate these things to get the true picture!

The point of Revelation 11:15-19 is simply a heavenly declaration. Carefully read it...because heavened opened when Christ became the fulfillment on the cross! This is WHY Christ is worthy...and can break the seventh seal!!!

*He is The Passover Lamb!

*He is the Feast of Unleavened Bread (sinless perfection)

*He is The Day of Atonement (Atoning for sin)

*He is the Feast of Tabernacles, as He was God DWELLING among men...John 1:14

It's ALL CHRIST..and WHY HE WAS WORTHY TO "open the book and to break its seals"!!!
 
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Job8

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This claim, often put forward by those clinging to Dispensationalist eschatology, overlooks the fact that the earliest Church Fathers have no trace of chiliasm in the eschatalogical passages of their writings.
The pre-supposition here is that the earliest Church Fathers were infallible. The truth of the matter is that while much of what they believed was absolutely Scriptural, there were many errors introduced into Christianity by the same men. And they may also have focused on matters other than the Millennium. Just becuse some writer fails to mention a topic does not necessarily mean that he does not believe it is true.

The only inspired, inerrant, and infallible writings are within the Holy Bible (excluding the Apocrypha). Revelation is clearly a canonical book, and in Revelation 20, we have six references to "a thousand years" (Gk chilia ete) within seven verses. That is the most incontrovertible evidence that there will be a future Millennium.

Those who believe that we are already in the Millennium are self-deceived and deceiving others. When Christ literally and physically establishes His Kingdom on earth, there will be universal peace, prosperity and righteousness, while Satan and all his minions are bound.
 
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