FULL Preterism....

LittleLambofJesus

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There is currently a discussion going on in General Theology here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7711313/

Discussing the theology of Preterism...If there are any adherents to Full Preterism, I would love to hear your voice...Thanks!!
I am of the Preterist/Amill view, but haven't yet embraced Full Preterism, tho I am starting to lean more towards it.
 
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A New World

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There is currently a discussion going on in General Theology here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7711313/

Discussing the theology of Preterism...If there are any adherents to Full Preterism, I would love to hear your voice...Thanks!!

Thanks for asking.

I have been a Full Preterist for a little more than ten years. As you've probably noticed, discussing the FP perspective can raise many objections and stir various emotions. It can cause an otherwise logical, mellow person to become arrogant, belligerent and even irate in a short time.

I've discussed it enough by now that I'm much better at controlling my emotions. It is challenging when opponents would rather demonize and ridicule the person rather than discuss Scripture.

I always pray that God will continue to bless the honest pursuit of the truth of Scripture. In my opinion there is nothing more important.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I believe that the book of Daniel prophecy was fulfilled with Jesus, but the Book of Revelation is the different prophecy. So that would make me a Preterist and Futurist at the same time.
 
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A New World

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I believe that the book of Daniel prophecy was fulfilled with Jesus, but the Book of Revelation is the different prophecy. So that would make me a Preterist and Futurist at the same time.

That's not an enviable position to be in brother!

You do know the old story of the Civil War soldier. Since he saw truth in the arguments made by both the North and South he wore a blue coat and gray pants. He ended up being shot by both sides!

Good luck and God bless!
 
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interpreter

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There is currently a discussion going on in General Theology here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7711313/

Discussing the theology of Preterism...If there are any adherents to Full Preterism, I would love to hear your voice...Thanks!!
CF calls me a full preterist because I say the second coming was in 312 AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds, and Jesus came into power through St. Constantine who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow, and ever since that day Jesus has ruled the earth through His followers (and will to the end).
 
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Notrash

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I'm in the FP ostracization...:) but growth.

But I try not to discuss the points that seperate FP from PP in the GT section.

I also believe a little different than some of the FP persons/preachers in that though I believe the 'second coming' that was referred to as the day if the lord and in such places as Heb 10:37 (I think it is); he will appear a second time for salvation without regard for sin; ocurred in 70 AD through the leaders of rome and angelic powers, I also believe that he 'appeared' again in 132/135 AD AND is embodied in that appearance in the flesh of the adherants to his truths and law of faith and "appears" from time to time in their lives and experience as the tenents of the fulfilled and established kingdom become refined.

Jesus' continuation "in the flesh" in I & 2 John is not a physical bodily continuatiin in the heavens, but a continuation of his "body" of truths, doctrines, tenents & way for life within those who have decided to EAT that "body" of doctrine as the "new" manna
from heaven for LIFE. (John 5 & 6)

I actally consider the futurist proclamations of the creeds as part of a religion & errors of Ireneouses misinterpretations and poor hermeneutics and not of Father, creator God, at his visitation, nor of the apostles.







xyz
 
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A New World

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God does not view time as the serpent it appears to us in.
I think we all agree that God exists outside of time and space. Yet, He has revealed Himself through His Word, and He has clearly communicated regarding time with His creation which is limited by time and space.

The inspired writers of the New Testament almost always identified their audiences. And, they informed them that the end was about to be, that it was near, shortly and soon. The end of the age occurred in their generation just as Jesus and the inspired writers taught.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The end was declared from the beginning which only the process of time reveals, which is just another way of saying perception is everything.
Are you a Preterist or Futurist?
How much of Daniel, the Olivet Discourse and Revelation do you view as fulfilled?
A lot of Preteristd view Olivet Discourse and Revelation as the destruction of Jerusalem from what I know......I don't know how the unbelieving Jews of today view it since they don't believe in Jesus or the NT.......

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/how-much-of-matthew-24-is-fulfilled.7392923/

The question I want to ask Christians is how much of Matthew 24 and the Olivet Discourse do you view a fulfilled.

I hope I gave the right options and I am really hoping to get some input on others here on it. Thank you and God bless

Matthew 24:3 Of sitting yet of Him upon the Mount of Olives toward-came to Him the Disciples according to own saying "be telling to us when? shall these-things be and what? the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952> and the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age" [Daniel 12/Revelation 15:1]

Matt 24:3.....and what? the Sign....
Mark 13:4....and what? the Sign....
Luke 21:7....and what? the Sign....

Reve 16:17
and the seventh one pours out the bowl of him upon the air and came out a great Voice from out of the Sanctuary from the Throne saying "it is finished"!. [Revelation 21:6]

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

....................In executing the command of Titus, relative to the demolition of Jerusalem, the Roman soldiers not only threw down the buildings, but even dug up their foundations, and so completely levelled the whole circuit of the city, that a stranger would scarcely have known that it had ever been inhabited by human beings.
Thus was this great City, which only five months before, had been crowded with nearly two millions of people, who gloried in its impregnable strength, entirely depopulated, and levelled with the ground............

Thus awfully complete an ever, beyond example, were the calamities which befel the Jewish nation, and especially the city of Jerusalem. With what truth, then, did our LORD declare, that there should "be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world, no, nor ever shall be !" (Matt. xxiv. 21.) Such was the prediction : the language in which Josephus declares its fulfillment is an exact counterpart to it : "If the misfortunes," says he, " of all nations, from the beginning of the world, were compared with those which befel the Jews, they would appear far less in comparison ;" and again, "No other city ever suffered such thing's, as no other generation , from the beginning of the world, was ever more fruitful in wickedness."............
 
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x141

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Things are not an argument to me, or more precisely beyond good and evil, I don’t think on terms that are bound by the process of time (which is more akin to wandering in a field, a pattern throughout scripture, which Christ for me brought an end of in me (if that makes sense) to speak to earthly pictures such as can be seen in Jesus' cursing of a fig tree (that no one would eat of it anymore) as if it should have had fruit before it’s time) tracing this truth (in scripture) back to the first mentioning of a fig tree in relationship to a son not accepted and how he became this in his own eyes, or in the day (6th) he ate) who kept the fig tree (his soul) and ate the fruit thereof … The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat). We are still bound by the letter of the word as much as they were bound by the law Moses. It is what our soul does to us because we refuse to lose it or become desolate, or one without a husband. (We live in the small moment that God hid his face from us which process is confined to; which is why he is revealed in the moment as something always present to us in as much as this is the picture of a city that comes down from God out of heaven as one already prepared as a bride for her husband, which reflects spirit and soul).

I am born of her who is free and therefore my thoughts are boundless on all matters, which the medium of words are insufficient to clarify, so everything is seed to me, the one I am and the one I sow.

Jesus brought an end to the Jews religion (the serpent that swallowed all the other serpents) which Christianity is the feminine of), by being the lamb that was without spot or wrinkle, who became the serpent on a pole in a Jerusalem as it had happened in the first garden,( but the second man was the last man a light that leads us back to where we come from (which is just one of myriads of ways to see truth from (starting in Genesis with the mother of all living or a soul deceived which births a divided inheritance of self, or the truth that we are), which is how it relates to the truth each of us are as a son). Jerusalem is the same, a picture of something that relates to the soul, it is a city, no different than any other city (such as Damascus, Nineveh, or Samaria), or kingdom, soul or mountain, they are reflective as something that relates to the process in us) it is the apple of the eye or what is in the midst of the man, and from one place in the midst of the sea due to the image an Ishmael or man that tills the ground became to the living soul we became by the breathe of God we are. It is not limited to this …

Truth is everything and is the sum of the whole, it is not linear, it is the process of the revealing of him as the one who is all in all only found in the moment beyond good and evil.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I'm in the FP ostracization...:) but growth.

But I try not to discuss the points that seperate FP from PP in the GT section.

I actally consider the futurist proclamations of the creeds as part of a religion & errors of Ireneouses misinterpretations and poor hermeneutics and not of Father, creator God, at his visitation, nor of the apostles.

xyz
I am still on the fence concerning FP, but it does look like there may be a lot of biblical basis for it. [I am Amill so far]
A member from "theologyweb" forum posted her own commentary on Matthew 24 and I had the link saved, 08/11/2011, from "preteristsite.com", but it seems it is no longer up. I will try to hunt for her article.
She admitted to "waffling"

preteristsite.com

quote:
"Hopefully a point of clarification: The quote (in the original) contains a typo of sorts. I talked to this person about it some months ago and she agreed. It reads,

There are two primary camps within preterism on this issue:

one view holds that there is a break in Matthew 24 beginning with either verse 35 or 36 [Switch-On],
and another that holds that the entire enchilada primarily belongs to the first century [Switch-Off].

Proponents of the former view include Dan Trotter and Gary DeMar,
and proponents of the latter include Kenneth Gentry and Marcellus Kik.

Frankly there are strong arguments for both, and I have held both positions, in fact in writing this piece I have waffled - when I started writing I was becoming very convinced of a Pro-Switch view, now upon writing it I am back to my former position of a No-Switch view.

Basically the references to "former" and "latter" are backwards. It should read

proponents of the latter view [that holds that the entire enchilada primarily belongs to the first century [Switch-Off]] , include Dan Trotter and Gary DeMar

and proponents of the former view [that there is a break in Matthew 24 beginning with either verse 35 or 36 [Switch-On]] include Kenneth Gentry and Marcellus Kik

Again, I talked about this with the author about a year ago and she agreed it was backwards (no ignorance on her part, just a typo of sorts); I guess she never got around to changing it, however."
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I just found out Dee Dee Warren published her book on Matthew 24.
I remember helping her with it when years ago when I was on theologyweb......She is a Preterist, but was staunchly against Full Preterism, which she deemed as "heretical"
It's Not the End of the World!,Dee Dee Warren, publisher Xulon Press the Christian book, self-publishing company. | Xulon Authors

I debated with her back in 2005 [before I came to CF]. I had forgotten about that
I just ran across a blog site where she rants against FPism:

2Ti 2:
17

And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
18
who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.


Preterist Heresy: Dee Dee Warren: On the Error of "Hymenaenism"

Dee Dee Warren: On the Error of "Hymenaenism"

Dee Dee Warren: Of course "full preterists" do not believe that their mythology would correctly fall under the rubric of "Hymenaeanism'. If they did, they would not be "full preterists." The question for consideration here is whether or not it is correct for me to utilize the label of "Hymenaeanism" for their doctrine and identifying it as a potentially damnable heresy. In order to make that determination, it is necessary to look at the issue from the point of view of my presuppositions not the presuppositions of the "full preterists." This is where most discussions of this topic go way off base and basically amount to tautological nonsense that goes something like this:

THE HYMENAEAN : "You can't say that I am wrong based upon Paul's condemnation of Hymenaeus about the timing of the resurrection since Hymenaeus taught that it happened before 70AD. Since I am saying that it happened in 70AD, and it did, which is after Paul's condemnation, I am nothing like Hymenaeus. All Christians believe that there will come a day when the resurrection will be a past event. Will you all be Hymenaeans then??"
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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This is a post by a member concerning Full Preterism being the dissolution of the carnal OC Temple and Mosaic Priesthood in 70AD and making us and the Jews a spiritual Temple in the NC.
I have always look at Revelation as "Covenantle".....

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ;

Full Preterism-Where is the scriptural evidence?

Preterism means “things bygone” or “things past.”
Futurism is the dominant view at this time. Preterism is a view of eschatology (the study of “endtimes” or “last things”) that views the [second] coming of Christ, the judgment, the great persecution, and the [general] resurrection as having already been fulfilled. Most preterists believe these things happened in the first century, culminating in the events of a.d. 70. There are different degrees of preterism. Partial preterists believe that some things have been fulfilled but others are yet future. Preterists also differ considerably concerning the implications of this a.d. 70 fulfillment and how it affects practice and life for today.
Most preterists view “the end” of which the apostles speak as being the end of the law or the filling up of the covenant in Jesus. The old order, the Mosaic covenant, “the flesh,” “the world,” circumcision, heaven and earth (and other terms that encapsulated the law) were passing away; the glory of the law was fading. The old covenant, as per Hebrews, was growing old and ready to disappear. Yet, at the writing of Hebrews, it had not yet vanished. Something soon was to complete the victory; the apostles constantly expected it and encouraged their brethren to do the same. That something was Jesus’ providential coming to destroy faithless Jerusalem, its temple, and the perverse generation that stood up against God and against His holy ones. This event would spell vindication for the church.
Persecutors rose up against Jesus and against his disciples. These were antichrists and adversaries, mostly from among fellow-Jews. Believers were scourged in the synagogues and cast out from them. They were handed up to rulers and authorities; they were routinely stoned, mocked, killed and accused of sin (with respect to the law). Throughout the whole world, even the Gentile Christians were being compelled to be circumcised and to follow the customs, as handed down by Moses. These people were Pharisaical Jews who sometimes identified with Jesus (but not necessarily). They were called the circumcision faction. They boasted in the flesh, in the temple “made with hands” and in their circumcision. They brought great affliction against the servants of righteousness. Their pride was in Jerusalem and in the temple. The destruction of these things brought them low; it ended the persecution from the hands of these men (both inside Judea and throughout the whole world).
According to Preterism, the law was good and came from God. Yet Jesus’ contemporaries, a wicked and perverse generation, had made the law an idol, an object of God’s wrath. As the prophets spoke of God-appointed new moons and Sabbaths as being theirs (i.e. not God’s), so too was the law theirs in perversion. It was a law of sin and death, a ministration of condemnation.
Preterism draws much of its support from imminency language from Jesus and the apostles. They speak of events that were “soon” and “near” or to occur in their generation. Revelation speaks in this way plainly. So too does Matt 24 speak against the very temple that was then standing. Preterist believe that futurists miss out on the powerful fulfillment of prophetic promises from our Lord Jesus Christ.
Also, much of the imagery, Preterists understand in prophetic terms. “Heavens and earth” are connected to or symbolic of the covenant in many places (such as Isaiah and Deut). The sun, moon, and stars falling, is also a common way of speaking with respect to a particular nation or person (Ezek 32, Ecclesiastes 12). And God regularly would “come” upon the clouds in temporal judgments against adversaries. Preterists think that futurists ignore linguistic connections with and background from other parts of the Scripture.
Historically, Christianity has shown a dualism between preterism and futurism. They have existed side-by-side. Traditional orthodoxy might basically be described as partial-preterist. Many people have seen some of these texts as being fulfilled. Interpreters varied considerably. There was no systematic (or well developed) futurism or preterism until the 19th Century. Historicism dominated the Reformation age. Historicists typically viewed Revelation as being a summation of history. The Pope was the “antichrist” and the “man of sin.” This view (especially concerning the pope) developed a couple of centuries prior to the Reformation.
Prior to Historicism, the dominant view was not systematic at all. It was a hodge-podge that didn’t necessarily connect one piece of the puzzle with another.
Preterism might arguably be considered the product of systematic futurism. Futurists connected certain events in eschatology as being interwoven together. They aimed at a consistency. They said, in essence, “if the final judgment is future, so too is the coming and the resurrection and the great persecution, etc.” They correctly linked all of these events together in time.
Preterism agrees with the systematic futurist in linking these events together in logic and in time (and calling it eschatology). Nevertheless, Preterists say that because all of these events hang together, they all hang together in the past.
 
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