The context of when Pope Francis said, "Who am I to judge?"

Albion

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There's no way that anyone doesn't know that there are plenty of Catholics who believe in so-called "same-sex marriage" and who want the Church to change her teachings on it. It's in the news all the time. That's why I understood his question as wanting me to give the identity of a specific person on here (which would give him an opportunity to report me).
I don't know about that reporting idea, but what you say above is not the question that was asked (although there seem actually to have been two questions--who said Francis has done away with the church of Jesus Christ, and who are some of these Catholics who support S-SM and constitute half of all Catholics?)
 
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Fish and Bread

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Why do you attack the source when Nancy Pelosi has stated her views several times in the mainstream media?

Just in general, I've found that site to be very biased and factually inaccurate. I remember back in like 08 or 12 we'd have these long 15 page threads debating stuff from the site that later turned out to be less than the unvanished truth. So, I always hesitate to believe anything just on their say-so. I do of course know that the first female Speaker of the House, Rep. Pelosi, favors gay marriage in general, at least as a secular matter, and my post doesn't overly rely on whether or not she said what she's been portrayed as saying in context, which she easily could have, so I went ahead and contributed to the thread anyway. :)
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Just in general, I've found that site to be very biased and factually inaccurate.
That's a matter of your opinion. And I don't want this thread to get derailed with a debate about sources.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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We certainly can judge actions. A key mission given by Christ to His Church, the Catholic Church, is the salvation of souls. The identification and condemnation of sin is necessary in that mission.
And Jesus said that we must judge the tree by its fruits and beware of the false prophets.
 
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MikeK

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And Jesus said that we must judge the tree by its fruits and beware of the false prophets.

I am very aware of fruitless Catholics who pervert the teachings of Christ's Church to promote their earthly political ideologies and even falsely suggest that they have figured out the circumstances of the end times.
 
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IgnatiusOfAntioch

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the media ripped "who am I to judge" (which was not even a quote of a whole sentence) out of the above context.

Note: The entire official Vatican transcript of that press conference is available when one clicks "Read more." As always, I provided the source link to encourage everyone to read the whole thing in its full context. It's only a click away.

The context was in confession. When someone has repented, confessed and been absolved, it's clearly not the time to judge.
 
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WarriorAngel

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I agree with what he said. What I don't agree with is how the media ripped "who am I to judge" (which was not even a quote of a whole sentence) out of the above context.

Note: The entire official Vatican transcript of that press conference is available when one clicks "Read more." As always, I provided the source link to encourage everyone to read the whole thing in its full context. It's only a click away.
It's so unfortunate that this has painted our Pope as unorthodox... and i have already had to defend him to my uber orthodox brother that the media misquoted him and he ought to always check the Vatican site for the correction translations and understandings.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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It's so unfortunate that this has painted our Pope as unorthodox... and i have already had to defend him to my uber orthodox brother that the media misquoted him and he ought to always check the Vatican site for the correction translations and understandings.
I agree. Unfortunately, when the "who am I to judge" media firestorm first happened it wasn't available in English. I remember that those who wanted to know the context of what Pope Francis actually said had to use Google Translate. But most people won't go through the trouble of going to the Vatican's website let alone go through the manual process of translating it for themselves.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

- Winston Churchill​
 
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WarriorAngel

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I agree. Unfortunately, when the "who am I to judge" media firestorm first happened it wasn't available in English. I remember that those who wanted to know the context of what Pope Francis actually said had to use Google Translate. But most people won't go through the trouble of going to the Vatican's website let alone go through the manual process of translating it for themselves.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

- Winston Churchill​
Winston... love his quotes.
 
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ebia

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It's so unfortunate that this has painted our Pope as unorthodox... and i have already had to defend him to my uber orthodox brother that the media misquoted him and he ought to always check the Vatican site for the correction translations and understandings.
Unfortunately the vatican doesn't tend to quickly post full direct texts of what he actually says. Usually they (a) take some time and (b) still take the form of reports about his homily or whatever, rather than giving the straight text.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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Unfortunately the vatican doesn't tend to quickly post full direct texts of what he actually says. Usually they (a) take some time and (b) still take the form of reports about his homily or whatever, rather than giving the straight text.
I think that might sometimes be true for his homilies and audiences. But often the whole homily is directly what Pope Francis said such as with this homily (here). And the Vatican provides the straight transcript for the context of "who am I to judge." If the Vatican does post it in the form of a report they include a lot of direct quotes of what he said, and I think it's based on a recording. And when it's posted directly on the Vatican's official website I think that's about as reliable as one can get when it comes to knowing the mind of the Pope.

Edit:
Actually, I'm having difficulty finding an example of a homily or audience posted on the Vatican's official website that isn't directly what Pope Francis said. So far I haven't found an example.
 
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AvilaSurfer

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That's pretty much true for homilies and audiences. But when the Vatican does post it in the form of a report they include a lot of direct quotes of what he said, and I think it's based on a recording. And when it's posted directly on the Vatican's official website I think that's about as reliable as one can get when it comes to knowing the mind of the Pope.
But of course the world will first know the versions and interpretations of AP, Yahoo, and even HuffPo. By then a lot of damage will already be done.
 
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ebia

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I think that might sometimes be true for his homilies and audiences. But often the whole homily is directly what Pope Francis said such as with this homily (here). And the Vatican provides the straight transcript for the context of "who am I to judge." If the Vatican does post it in the form of a report they include a lot of direct quotes of what he said, and I think it's based on a recording. And when it's posted directly on the Vatican's official website I think that's about as reliable as one can get when it comes to knowing the mind of the Pope.

Edit:
Actually, I'm having difficulty finding an example of a homily or audience posted on the Vatican's official website that isn't directly what Pope Francis said. So far I haven't found an example.
A collection of direct quotes and reports is not the straight homily, it's an edited report, and it's impossible to tell how close to the homily it is. When Francis is seen as controversial the vatican press editors are as suspect as anyone else for manipulating through indirect speech. It's also not been there fast enough - news writers and commentators do not have the luxury of waiting for the vatican to put it there.

If they want it used like you suggest it needs to be the straight text and up within an hour or faster.
 
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WarriorAngel

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It's also not been there fast enough - news writers and commentators do not have the luxury of waiting for the vatican to put it there.
.
Why not?
Maybe because it wouldnt be sensational enough.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Because a news story only sells if you get it out there faster than everyone else.
Regardless of accuracy. Duly noted.

But the media distorts the news item no matter what the truth of it is...to make it sellable.
Or do you disagree?
 
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